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Marion

Problems with Secondary School

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Hi all, got a meeting ar DS new secondary school today, he started last Wednesday after being home educated for 12 months as he couldn't cope at primary, he has Asperger's, dyspraxia and severe dyslexia. We were so hopeful that he would cope at secondary school but it has been a disaster so far, he says he has a headache constantly and can't cope with the noise and the shouting, whistling, the bell ringing etc. He also thinks everyone in his form hates him and thinks he'e "weird"

Don't know if anyone can give me some advice-on the one hand I think he needs to get used to it, but in my heart I dont think he will, the year before I took him out of primary was a nightmare of crying, self harming, not sleeping etc, dont want to go through all that again if the end result is that school is just not viable for him.Just wondered if anyone else has gone through anything similar and what the outcome was? Our LEA is a nightmare, he doesn't have a statement, (we went as far as tribunal and lost)

Thanks for listening :wacko:

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Good luck with the meeting, Marion. Sorry to hear your son hasn't had a good start. What, if anything, has been done to prepare him, and what support, if any has been put in place?

 

Secondary is a very different environment from primary, and your son has come from being home edded, so I expect he would need a lot of help to ease back into school anyway. I expect the meeting will tell you a lot about the school's attitude and ability to help your son.

 

Unfortunately without a statement, as you know, you are reliant on the school's resources and goodwill to support your son. Don't let the first failure put you off applying for a statutory assessment again: you are now in a different situation and have evidence of your son's failure to cope at primary school.

 

K x

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Good luck with the meeting, Marion. Sorry to hear your son hasn't had a good start. What, if anything, has been done to prepare him, and what support, if any has been put in place?

 

Secondary is a very different environment from primary, and your son has come from being home edded, so I expect he would need a lot of help to ease back into school anyway. I expect the meeting will tell you a lot about the school's attitude and ability to help your son.

 

Unfortunately without a statement, as you know, you are reliant on the school's resources and goodwill to support your son. Don't let the first failure put you off applying for a statutory assessment again: you are now in a different situation and have evidence of your son's failure to cope at primary school.

 

K x

 

 

Thanks for the advice Kathryn, you were absolutely right about the school's attitude, unfortunately it wasn't good. The learning support people had assured ud that "they would do everything possible" to help him in the first week, they did nothing they said they would and at the meeting actually rolled out the line "without a statement...." This is completely the opposite to what they promised us in the meetings we had before he started. He's upstairs now sobbing that he "can't cope" Can't believe it, was supposed to go back to work 1st October, we had such high hopes (after being promised so much) and now are so disappointd.take care and thanks

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Thanks for the advice Kathryn, you were absolutely right about the school's attitude, unfortunately it wasn't good. The learning support people had assured ud that "they would do everything possible" to help him in the first week, they did nothing they said they would and at the meeting actually rolled out the line "without a statement...." This is completely the opposite to what they promised us in the meetings we had before he started. He's upstairs now sobbing that he "can't cope" Can't believe it, was supposed to go back to work 1st October, we had such high hopes (after being promised so much) and now are so disappointd.take care and thanks

 

 

My heart goes out to you, when they promised all this he didnt have a statement then, so this cant be true, if it that they can not meet his needs without a statement that is up the school and LEA to sort out, not you, though I would go forward and request an assessment of SEN, the school should of done the planning and transition work in year 6 summer term and worked towards a gradual return, does the school have any mentor systems, buddying scemes, he is obvously feeling rejected and excluded, if you feel he is not getting his needs met you need to express this in clear text words forwarded to the Headteacher, Senco, and the manager of the SEN department in your authority.

 

It sounds like the whole enviroement is a big barrier to his needs been met, even with support they need to restructure his learning enviroement.

 

JsMum

 

 

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I agree with what has already been said. definitely try for a statement again. I'm surprised that he doesn't have one if he has 'severe dyslexia' as well as the other things you mentioned. How does he manage academically if he cannot read or write to the standard required? surely he must be entitled to some help for this if nothing else?

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Hello Marion, I completely feel for you and your son-secondary school can be harder. Have you anyone to support you such as parent partnership or autism team etc? Could you explain a bit more about the problems your son is having in school and what if any support he is getting? (has he any support in lessons, timeout card, laptop to help with writing/spelling etc etc).

 

My son's first RSA was turned down because the sencondary school he was in hadn't put enough support in place(the LA phoned me to say if I waited it would be sorted-and it was)-thats the problem you may have, but the good thing about it for us was the LA had a meeting with the school and told them what they needed to do and then 6mths later they put in the RSA again with support from everyone involved and my son got a statement with 22hrs-my parental advice really supported it (so I was told).

 

How did you get on in the meeting?

What targets has your son got in his IEP?

 

Sorry there is so many questions but it will help us to try and help you!!

 

 

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Hello Marion, I completely feel for you and your son-secondary school can be harder. Have you anyone to support you such as parent partnership or autism team etc? Could you explain a bit more about the problems your son is having in school and what if any support he is getting? (has he any support in lessons, timeout card, laptop to help with writing/spelling etc etc).

 

My son's first RSA was turned down because the sencondary school he was in hadn't put enough support in place(the LA phoned me to say if I waited it would be sorted-and it was)-thats the problem you may have, but the good thing about it for us was the LA had a meeting with the school and told them what they needed to do and then 6mths later they put in the RSA again with support from everyone involved and my son got a statement with 22hrs-my parental advice really supported it (so I was told).

 

How did you get on in the meeting?

What targets has your son got in his IEP?

 

Sorry there is so many questions but it will help us to try and help you!!

 

 

Hi again, thanks for the support, it's a bit lonely sometimes isnt it!! Been sitting in the school car park all day, ds very stressed and anxious, he managed 2 lessons today!

At the moment he has no support at all, the new school said he would be able to share another boy's support in English , Maths and Science-and then didn't put them in the same classes. He doesnt have any support in lessons at all.We have no IEP as yet.

 

The meeting was really unproffessional, with all involved (Year Group leader, Head of Standards and Head of Learning Support (ha ha) being very defensive and one of them actually said "What do you want us to do, we have 1600 pupils-this is a mainstream school"

 

Am angry and upset that his first week has been so difficult because school have basically not supported him at all, he now hates it and says he can't do it which could have been avoided with just a little bit of help to settle in. He says he doesnt understand what most of the teachers are talking about,he did a drama class today but his group didnt include him, he didnt have a part and sat on the bench watching.Going to keep trying to get him in and hanging around in case he needs me.Have asked school to write to us with the minutes of our 2 meetings with them detailing our dissappointment with the lack of (promised) support and to tell us how they plan to support him from now on, (that was last Wenesday, nothing yet)

 

LEAs apparently have different criteria and DS doesnt have a statement as his IQ is in the normal range! Thanks again, Maz

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Well you obviously can't sit in the car park for the next five years - something must be done, and soon. >:D<<'>

 

While you are waiting for a response, send the school a record your version of the meeting as well, while it's fresh in your mind. In fact, it's a good idea to make it a habit to record in writing as much as you can from now on.

 

The school shouldn't behave as though they are doing you a grudging favour with regard to your son. The law and the Code of Practice are absolutely clear on a school and LEA's duties towards pupils with SEN. Schools must use their "best endeavours" (Education act 1996 section 317 a) to ensure that pupils with SEN are educated according to their needs. Have a look at the whole section below, a useful piece of ammunition which you can use if you feel you need to remind the school of its legal obligations. It applies to all pupils with SEN, not just those with statements.

 

317 Duties of governing body or LEA in relation to pupils with special educational needs (1) The governing body, in the case of a county, voluntary or grant-maintained school, and the local education authority, in the case of a maintained nursery school, shall—

(a.) use their best endeavours, in exercising their functions in relation to the school, to secure that, if any registered pupil has special educational needs, the special educational provision which his learning difficulty calls for is made,

(b.) secure that, where the responsible person has been informed by the local education authority that a registered pupil has special educational needs, those needs are made known to all who are likely to teach him, and

(c.) secure that the teachers in the school are aware of the importance of identifying, and providing for, those registered pupils who have special educational needs.

 

Ask to see the school's policy on SEN, if they haven't already supplied you with a copy as part of the information pack. check it, note where they are not following it, and challenge them.

 

 

LEAs apparently have different criteria and DS doesnt have a statement as his IQ is in the normal range!

 

:wallbash:

 

The only legal criteria are whether the school can meet the child's SEN from its own resources. Any other barriers imposed by a particular LA are unlawful - they must not have blanket policies which exclude certain groups of children from assessment and statementing, but must look at the child's needs individually. Many parents on this forum have statemented children with "normal" or even above average intelligence.

 

This is a tough battle, but stay strong, calm and keep on keeping on at them. :ninja: Don't give up.

 

K x

Edited by Kathryn

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Hi Marion i agree with what everyone has said you do need to have a statement to get the help your son clearly needs as the school don't appear to be doing what they said they would to support your son; it's only a thought and i know some on this site may disagree with me, but it might be worth a try going to speak to a solicitor regarding going back to your LEA to get reassested for statementing.; i know this can be costly but i was going to go down this road to get my son statemented if our LEA turned him down.

Money was very tight for us but in the preliminary discussion we did have with the solicitor, she said what ever the bill came to we could pay it back on a weekly basis; luckily he did get his statement and we didn't have to go down this path.

Just like you I have been where you are now; my DS has refused to go back to his secondary school and is at home at the moment! he has been at his secondary school only a year, however the stress it has caused him has resulted in him hearing voices, he is now on antidepressents, and not in school.

I am in the process of getting an annual reveiw done so it can go to panel to request he be given a place in a MLD school, as he clearly cannot cope with main stream; there are 1,400 pupils in DS school.

Like your son he has average learning ability and can manage the curiculum, he loves to learn, however this is being hampered by the fact he is isolated by the rest of his form and the rest of kids in the school come to that. the only time they speak to him is when they are calling him names or asking to borrow his stuff! he was told by his TA to share his pens ruler glue ect and when he did they were never returned!

Anyway just to let you know you are not on your own! Hope you get the proper suport for your son and things get better for you both. x

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Hi Marion. >:D<<'> >:D<<'>

I wanted to post to offer some moral support.I have Ben who is 11 and has AS and dyspraxia.Ben has just started at secondary school.He has way above average intelligence and has a Statement of SEN.I do not think the school are doing what they comitted to.They also were very good at talking in earlier meetings but I do not currently see much support in practice. :rolleyes: However we do have the reasurance of the Statement if Ben does not cope.He is currently doing ok at school although he is very tired and irritable at home.

I have found it very stressful dealing with transition.We have support from CAMHS but it is still difficult.I had considered doing a course or returning to work.However I don't think things are anywhere near settled enough to consider it.Just getting Ben up,organised and to school is enough of a challenge at the momment.

So I do understand how frustrated and disappointed you must feel.

 

As I said Ben is very bright but we have been able to obtain support.If a child had a visual impairment then the LA and school could not refuse to make appropriate adjustments in order to enable them to access education becuase they were bright.I don't think ASD,dyspraxia or dyslexia is any different.

Karen.

 

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Just wanted to add how sad I am that you have been left in this situation.

And I totally agree with the advice given.

Unfortunately support means MONEY being allocated to support your son. That just does not happen without something that states what he needs ie. in a Statement.

I too was also told that my son could get everything he needed without a Statement. Two years later I realised that wasn't going to happen, so I requested an assessment towards a Statement. The LEA agreed to that and then tried to put together a totally unenforceable Statement that added up to nothing. So we went to tribunal and we got everything we asked for in terms of hours of support; a dedicated TA and support throughout the day (lessons/breaktimes/dinnertimes); we got the school placement we wanted which had expertise in ASDs.

However this took me 2 years to realise I was being fobbed off and lied to, plus the time it took to be assessed for a Statement, plus the time it took to go to tribunal.

Your son has a right to be able to access education by law. The LEA are legally responsible for ensure your son has an educational environment that understands and supports him.

As previously stated, you cannot be expected to sit in the car park for the next 5 years. The school/SENCO/LEA and other professionals are not doing their job.

Start getting everything in writing. Everything you say, and everything they tell you and everything both sides agree to do. Your son has a medical diagnosis and difficulties that have been so severe that he has had to be taken out of school by you. He is vulnerable, and he is not coping.

Get advice from the organisations mentioned ie. NAS/IPSEA etc. Go to an NAS Special Educational Needs seminar about the Statementing process. Get a copy of the SEN Code of Practice. Get in touch with your local Parent Partnership. Ask for an assessment towards a Statement. That will mean all professionals should assess your son ie. Speech and Language Therapist, Educational Psychologist etc. School also have to make a report and so do parents.

 

What are you intending to do in the meantime? What have school said they will do as he is not coping presently? Get a letter from your GP about his anxiety/stress etc. Do you have anything in writing from his GP previously ie. the self harming etc?

 

They maybe hoping you will take him home and home school again. Don't let that be an option unless that is what you want. Home schooling should be a choice, not something a parent feels forced into because the School/LEA are not meeting your childs needs.

 

At the time my son was being diagnosed and was in school, I was actually on placement as part of my second year of a degree course when the XXXX hit the fan. I failed the placement, left the course, and spent the next couple of years getting my son in a school with the right level of support that he needed. It is only now that I feel confident that he is coping and I don't feel like dealing with the educational side of things is 'my full time job'.

So my advice would be to get angry, stand up to the system and learn how to navigate your way through the process to get a strong statement in place. Part of that might even mean a change in secondary school if the present one is not able to meet his needs. It isn't an easy process, but it can be done. But you have to get a statement and go by the SEN Code of Practice and believe nothing you are told unless you have it in writing in triplicate. >:D<<'> >:D<<'>

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Just wanted to 'second' the point that Statements ARE given to children of 'normal' or even 'gifted' intelligence. A Statement is a legal document which secures financial funding for the supports/staffing provisions/services and therapies outlined as 'needed' by the statemented child. And that is for anything that is 'over' what the school (ie. education support ie. TA support/input from an Educational Psychologist or a Speech and Language Therapist or a specialist teacher for Dyslexia), or health (ie. input from an Occupational Therapist) usually provide. For example the school might be able to get 'advice' from a dyslexia teacher on a termly basis for one or two pupils. That might not even include your son. If your son needs specialist support and advice securing for HIM or if he needs it on a more frequent basis ie. weekly advice from a specialist teacher, or computer software that a TA must be trained in the use of etc, then that can be secured through a statement.

 

A Statement is also not just about 'educational' attainment. It is about providing support to enable a child to be able to 'access' education. A child can be a genius, but if he has sensory issues he may not be able to learn in a noisy, decorated classroom. A Statement is also about 'social interaction and play skills'. It is about therapies, strategies and professional input to teach your child how to socialise, join in, hold a conversation, deal with social interaction, learn life skills.

 

As your son has dyslexia it is also about the school securing funding to get in specialist teaching advice, or computer software, or TA support to help him access learning and also to record his learning. You can find all the above information set out in general terms in the SEN Code of Practice.

 

You can write a letter to the school SENCO and the Inclusion Officer at your local LEA setting out what was promised and did not materialise and how your son is not coping. You can ask the Parent Partnership to accompany you to all meetings in school to advise you and take notes of what is discussed and agreed.

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Just wanted to say thanks loads for all your advice, am waiting for the post after ringing yesterday to say that I had requested in writing (thanks Kathryn and Sally) the minutes of both our meetings last week and also their written proposals of what they plan to do to support ds. He has managed a few lessons each day this week so far,had phone calls yesterday from Head of Year, Head of learning support and the drama teacher!! Apparently they are going to do a reading and writing assessment with him and will then discuss with us how they cxan support him.

Alexsmum, I am so sorry your boy has had to go through so much and send him huge cuddles, if I can help with websites , free resources etc pleas PM me,it's hard having them at home but I can honestly say my ds was never happier, it worries me loads that his self-esteem and mental health will start to go downhill again now that school has re-entered the equation but feel we've got to try/

 

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Hi Marion. >:D<<'> >:D<<'>

I wanted to post to offer some moral support.I have Ben who is 11 and has AS and dyspraxia.Ben has just started at secondary school.He has way above average intelligence and has a Statement of SEN.I do not think the school are doing what they comitted to.They also were very good at talking in earlier meetings but I do not currently see much support in practice. :rolleyes: However we do have the reasurance of the Statement if Ben does not cope.He is currently doing ok at school although he is very tired and irritable at home.

I have found it very stressful dealing with transition.We have support from CAMHS but it is still difficult.I had considered doing a course or returning to work.However I don't think things are anywhere near settled enough to consider it.Just getting Ben up,organised and to school is enough of a challenge at the momment.

So I do understand how frustrated and disappointed you must feel.

 

As I said Ben is very bright but we have been able to obtain support.If a child had a visual impairment then the LA and school could not refuse to make appropriate adjustments in order to enable them to access education becuase they were bright.I don't think ASD,dyspraxia or dyslexia is any different.

Karen.

 

 

Thanks Karen, mornings are awful arent they, nobody understands unless they've been there, I am working one day a week at the moment and was supposed to start 3 days from 1st October, not goin to happen, feel sick cos we need the money and I might not get the chance again but what can u do? We have to put our kids first and as such are not "reliable" lol, hugs to you and Ben

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Just wanted to add how sad I am that you have been left in this situation.

And I totally agree with the advice given.

Unfortunately support means MONEY being allocated to support your son. That just does not happen without something that states what he needs ie. in a Statement.

I too was also told that my son could get everything he needed without a Statement. Two years later I realised that wasn't going to happen, so I requested an assessment towards a Statement. The LEA agreed to that and then tried to put together a totally unenforceable Statement that added up to nothing. So we went to tribunal and we got everything we asked for in terms of hours of support; a dedicated TA and support throughout the day (lessons/breaktimes/dinnertimes); we got the school placement we wanted which had expertise in ASDs.

However this took me 2 years to realise I was being fobbed off and lied to, plus the time it took to be assessed for a Statement, plus the time it took to go to tribunal.

Your son has a right to be able to access education by law. The LEA are legally responsible for ensure your son has an educational environment that understands and supports him.

As previously stated, you cannot be expected to sit in the car park for the next 5 years. The school/SENCO/LEA and other professionals are not doing their job.

Start getting everything in writing. Everything you say, and everything they tell you and everything both sides agree to do. Your son has a medical diagnosis and difficulties that have been so severe that he has had to be taken out of school by you. He is vulnerable, and he is not coping.

Get advice from the organisations mentioned ie. NAS/IPSEA etc. Go to an NAS Special Educational Needs seminar about the Statementing process. Get a copy of the SEN Code of Practice. Get in touch with your local Parent Partnership. Ask for an assessment towards a Statement. That will mean all professionals should assess your son ie. Speech and Language Therapist, Educational Psychologist etc. School also have to make a report and so do parents.

 

What are you intending to do in the meantime? What have school said they will do as he is not coping presently? Get a letter from your GP about his anxiety/stress etc. Do you have anything in writing from his GP previously ie. the self harming etc?

 

They maybe hoping you will take him home and home school again. Don't let that be an option unless that is what you want. Home schooling should be a choice, not something a parent feels forced into because the School/LEA are not meeting your childs needs.

 

At the time my son was being diagnosed and was in school, I was actually on placement as part of my second year of a degree course when the XXXX hit the fan. I failed the placement, left the course, and spent the next couple of years getting my son in a school with the right level of support that he needed. It is only now that I feel confident that he is coping and I don't feel like dealing with the educational side of things is 'my full time job'.

So my advice would be to get angry, stand up to the system and learn how to navigate your way through the process to get a strong statement in place. Part of that might even mean a change in secondary school if the present one is not able to meet his needs. It isn't an easy process, but it can be done. But you have to get a statement and go by the SEN Code of Practice and believe nothing you are told unless you have it in writing in triplicate. >:D<<'> >:D<<'>

 

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Thanks Sally, you are so right it is a full time job isn't it! So sorry about your course, it's so frustrating cos I want to work and can earn quite a lot if I can get there but can't say from one day to the next if DS will be able to go to school. Have taken on board your advice and am goin to get everything in writing from now on, they are going to do a reding and writing test with him so as soon as they have the results we're going in armed with all the information to press for an Assessment of needs. Think I might write to Richard Branson and tell him about all our untapped talent, he might give us all a job on our laptops from home......just ave to tell im we can't do phonin, can't tie up the phone...lol!!

Am gonna stop sobbin an bein depressed and pathetic now, gotta get more positive and get on with it, if we cant fight for them who will? Thanks to all and had everyone has a good day x

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