Letter from school about damaged textbooks

[Kathryn]

Got this in the post from the head of science at my son's school this morning. Is it just me or is the tone of this letter unnecessarily aggressive? I wasn't aware of any damage to any book. Is it unreasonable to ask for further clarification of what amounts to an accusation?

 

I'm not against paying for something that has been damaged but I would like to know what they consider to be "damage". Obviously a book is not going to be in pristine condition after a year of being carted around by an 11 year old boy. Honest opinions welcome!

 

 

Dear Parents

 

Year 7 textbooks

 

At the start of last year all year 7 pupils were given a brand new textbook in a plastic cover for their science course. These books cost th school £13.50 new.

 

On collecting the book back ready to give the school to the next year group I find that your child's book was damaged so badly it cannot be used again. As you can appreciate, your child would be upset if given a textbook to use that was damaged. I am therefore requesting that your child covers the cost of a new textbook to replace the one that was damaged.

 

We are currently in the process of issuing the brand new year 8 books which have cost the school a lot of money. Your child will not be issued with a year 8 book until this matter has been resolved.

 

Please make cheques payable to **** School for £13. 50.

 

I sincerely hope I can count on your support in this matter and that it encourages pupils to care more for loaned property.

[bid]

Um, sorry, I kind of think that's fair enough?

 

Bid

[Kathryn]

Elaborate please? What's fair, the tone of the letter, the actual request, or both?

 

K x

[bid]

Well, £13 is a lot so I think paying to replace is a fair request.

 

I shall have to re-read later to assess tone, but must now dash out on a mercy mission to rescue some exam certificates!

 

Bid

[cmuir]

Hi

 

I think the tone of the letter is inappropriate.

 

'your child covers the cost' - who do they think will cover the cost? It won't be the child, it'll be the parents.

 

In honesty, would a child be upset at using a used book? I don't think so. Books can easily get damaged – normal wear and tear. If parents are expected to foot the bill for books, you should be given the choice whether their new or used (you could buy them yourself used from elsewhere). If you do have to pay for new books, then I'd ask for the old one back.

 

I personally think it would have been much more appropriate to have raised the issue by speaking to the kids collectively and requesting that parents ask their kids to look after the books. If there was a reoccurrence, then fair play, ask for money!

 

Caroline.

 

[Kathryn]

Hope you get the certificates Bid!

 

It is a lot, (and I could get it for £ 11 88 on Amazon incidentally, but maybe the school charge extra for the plastic cover). I just want to know what's considered fair wear and tear. If it's water damaged, torn, or scribbled on, I can understand, but it obviously isn't going to be returned in the same brand new condition. (Actually L tells me she was once issued with a science book in which someone had drawn a diagram of male genitalia..)

 

It is mainly the tone I object to, the emotional blackmail, and the implied threat of witholding a new book from my son until we pay up - without even a chance to query this. Why can't they just ask nicely?

 

K x

Edited September 11, 2009 by Kathryn

[**Mia]

I think that if they allow a child to have a book for a whole year they should expect this is going to happen. If they want the books to be maintained, they should make them keep the books at school and not allow them to take them home. If you carried a library book around for a year of course it is going to get damaged. I think it is really silly, that they operate in this way.

 

With our textbooks at school, we have to buy them ourselves or through the school or bookstores.

 

It should be their problem, not yours.

 

Mia

[bid]

Well, the letter does say that the book is too damaged to use again, so that's more than 'wear and tear'. When I was at school we had text books that had been used for years, because they had a book plate in the front where successive pupils had to write their name and form, so I don't think that's an unreasonable expectation.

 

TBH, the tone seems OK to me, just usual teacher-speak...but then I might feel differently if it was my child, if you see what I mean!

 

Bid

 

And certificates successfully retrieved!

Edited September 11, 2009 by bid

[baddad]

Hi kathryn -

 

It sounds as if the teacher was a bit PO'd when they wrote the letter to you and/or anticipating problems about the payment. I agree it's the bit about 'holding back' his new book which is aggressive - that should be a 'second letter reminder' type of comment; not a starting point...

In the last year of primary Ben's school had expensive science textbooks (for SATS, I Think). These books were issued on the basis that they would be returned in good condition, but this was advised in a letter before they were given out and cheaper non-returnable 'work books' were also issued so the expensive books only needed to be used for reference material. While the workbooks were a 'companion book' offered by the publishers, there's still no reason why the school couldn't have made up something themselves if they thought it necessary, and in any event if they were lending material that should have been made clear at the start.

Having said that, though, on the odd occassion that Ben has damaged/lost school library books etc I have always replaced them. I'm pretty sure that's not the issue for you, but just mentioning while on the subject that i think that's reasonable in principle given the struggles schools have with budgets etc.

Saddest thing of all - the books were probably paid for by Sesco's or Tainsbury's vouchers in the first place ... ooooh, little bit o' politics sneakin' in ther... (smarmy wink to camera, black sparkly jacket and big glasses etc. "Heeee's a cheeky eighties throwback...")

 

 

Oh:

(Actually L tells me she was once issued with a science book in which someone had drawn a diagram of male genitalia..)

 

Yes, but it was the biology workbook and it was the original artwork!

Funnily enough, there was a boy at my school who had a drawing of a science text book on his genetalia. He was a bit of a swot, actually. I had a copy of the beano on mine

Edited September 11, 2009 by baddad

[oxgirl]

I couldn't tell if the letter was directed at you personally or at the whole year. If it was me, I'd be inclined to ask to see the book that was damaged myself or ask for an explanation of what the damage was. What does your lad say about the book, does he agree that it was damaged beyond repair and in what way? I'd probably pay up but I'd suggest to them that next time they send out letters with the new books explaining that if they are sent back damaged then they must be paid for as this would be more fair.

 

~ Mel ~

[JsMum]

We are currently in the process of issuing the brand new year 8 books which have cost the school a lot of money. Your child will not be issued with a year 8 book until this matter has been resolved.

 

 

 

I dont like this phrase and what if a parent just cant afford it, its going to get the point not only do we need to buy a uniform, but text books next, also how many other parents have this letter, it could be singling some children out too because others will know who hasnt got a year 8 science book.

 

personally I dont agree, I would be discuss it with the Headteacher and come to a comprimise.

 

JsMum

 

[justine1]

Hi

I agree with the above comment the letter seems directed at more than one child/parent not necessarily the whole year group but prehaps a handful of kids I personally have recieved similar letters ie.when my son misplaced a book and I had to cover the cost the tone was much the same as your letter was not annoyed with the school but with my son.I do think you should hint to other mums maybe there are others annoyed over this and even ask the school,did you see the book yourself?you shoulsd ask to see it,pretend as though its not your son who damaged it but someone else and then judge for yourself how bad the damage is,if the pages are a bit tatty and there are drawings etc. this is still useable but if there are many torn pages and cannot see the writing then it should be replaced.

[NobbyNobbs]

i think the threat of witholding material he needs to access education is slightly illegal but... overall i think the letter was just a teacher 'i expect this to go my way and am letting you know i'm not joking' thing. my aunt (teacher) talks like that all the time, was very scary when i was little. does the head of science teach your son? otherwise why did his class teacher not notice the state of the book in previous lessons/when he handed it back in and deal with it then?

 

i would ask to see your sons book, and at all the other books returned by his class. make sure its not just a sample cos they'll pick the best ones. we had books that were ours all year in year 7 and even me (very careful book obsessive) messed up more than one with a leaking drink/pen. its just part of the result of giving out books to take home. if he's shredded the pages, scribbled obscenities etc then thats different but until they can prove the book is unusable then i wouldn't pay a thing (if it is partially damaged i would pay part of the cost of replacing. it will still be useable as a spare/for a few years)

[Kathryn]

I've had a word with my son who has no recollection of damaging the book particularly, although he admits it was a bit dogeared - as far as he can remember. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have written on it - he never does that.

 

But strangely he's been given a year 8 book anyway.

 

I don't want to make a huge issue of it so think I'll pay up this time stressing that it's a gesture of goodwill, have a word with my son about looking after books because the principle is a good one, but I'm going to write a letter as well asking the school to clarify what the position is, for future reference. I know the school are suffering budget cuts, but they should take their frustrations out on the county, not on parents. If they are going to try this on regularly, I'd rather buy the books myself!

 

K x

[Tally]

If the book is genuinely unusable, then I can see their point, but the overall tone and threat of refusing him a textbook this year seems way over the top.

 

Personally, I would insist on seeing the book before agreeing to compensate the school . . . if the book is so badly damaged as to be unusable, how did he manage to use it himself? If it genuinely is unusable and you can source a cheaper copy, I would do that instead. A second hand copy should be adequate.

 

I don't ever remember having brand new textbooks in school. Most of mine were battered and written in. I wasn't upset by this.

[Karen A]

I've had a word with my son who has no recollection of damaging the book particularly, although he admits it was a bit dogeared - as far as he can remember. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have written on it - he never does that.

 

But strangely he's been given a year 8 book anyway.

 

I don't want to make a huge issue of it so think I'll pay up this time stressing that it's a gesture of goodwill, have a word with my son about looking after books because the principle is a good one, but I'm going to write a letter as well asking the school to clarify what the position is, for future reference. I know the school are suffering budget cuts, but they should take their frustrations out on the county, not on parents. If they are going to try this on regularly, I'd rather buy the books myself!

 

K x

 

Hi.I think that response sounds very reasonable.

As you will gather far more reasonable than I am capable of being this evening. Karen.

 

[Kazzen161]

The first thing that came to mind is that it is addressed to "Dear Parents". Unless it is a majority of Year 7 that have damaged their books, then I would be expecting a personally addressed letter (Dear Mrs X). This gives the impression that they are asking a lot of Year 7s to pay, which in turn implies that the damage was not more than "average".

 

I would want to see the book (what's the betting they can't show you his particular one?), and to know how many of Year 7 have been asked to pay.

[Canopus]

Are schools allowed to charge more than the cover price for a damaged or destroyed book?

[Kathryn]

I would want to see the book (what's the betting they can't show you his particular one?), and to know how many of Year 7 have been asked to pay.

 

Yes, on reflection I don't think I will send a cheque in, but will ask to see the book. You're right Kazzen, it does sound as though a lot of people have received this. I would want to know if the pupils were made aware at the beginning of the year of the penalty for not returning the book in a particular condition.

 

Re used books - It never traumatised me either to inherit a well used book: in fact I always quite enjoyed seeing who had had a textbook before me. And the possession of a well- annotated pre- owned textbook can have its advantages as Harry Potter found in HP and the Half Blood Prince...

 

K x

[Mum of 3]

Just a thought....

This letter has gone out to 'parents', which suggests a number of the books have been returned in an 'unusable' condition...

The only way to make a textbook 'unusable', really, is to break the spine and cause the pages to drop out ( we've all 'used' books that were written/drawn on/ dog eared, etc)...

If a number of these NEW books have fallen to bits after a year's use ( by Year 7s, not a group known for their reckless behaviour! ), has the school considered taking this up with the publisher and looking at the QUALITY of the books they purchased?

I was Literacy co-ordinator for years, and regularly sent reps away with aflea in their ear (not literally ) after showing them that their books wouldn't stand the test of time (well, they always said they'd only stay 5 minutes, and then talk for ages and make me miss me dinner! ).

 

I'd definately ask to see my son's copy, and assess the damage myself. When you look at the book, look at the quality of the binding yourself...I really don't think all the year 7s would have been careless and distructive!

 

By the way, do 2ndary schools still use those labels for you to record 'name...form...year' ? We used to write 'prisoner...number...sentence'

[NobbyNobbs]

i can clearly remember having books with genitalia drawn all over it, swear words, pages completely missing... if you're going to pay for a new book ask to keep the old one or they'll be gaining a free book they WILL use again if class numbers increase, in which case it clearly wasn't unusable

[Karen A]

Yes, on reflection I don't think I will send a cheque in, but will ask to see the book. You're right Kazzen, it does sound as though a lot of people have received this. I would want to know if the pupils were made aware at the beginning of the year of the penalty for not returning the book in a particular condition.

 

 

 

K x

 

I had an interesting thought.I remember at the information evening for prospective year 7 parents being given a lecture about the new science textbooks being given out to year 7s and how there is a need to look after them.We were told that they would need to be looked after because they would be passed on to future year 7s.I wonder whether this is a case of making parents aware that they may be charged if books are not considered in good enough condition.

Evidently in my son's school they have never had text books in lower school at all until last year.

Karen.

 

[baddad]

Re used books - It never traumatised me either to inherit a well used book: in fact I always quite enjoyed seeing who had had a textbook before me. And the possession of a well- annotated pre- owned textbook can have its advantages as Harry Potter found in HP and the Half Blood Prince...

 

K x

 

Agree to a point - but if I could catch the filthy ******* who smears bogeys over the pages of books in my local library......

But yes, a well thumbed favourite book has it's own unique character - just like a worn vinyl favourite album. No doubt that a pristine CD copy does sound better, but it sounds better in the way that shop bought sandwiches taste better: everything's there in the right proportions and what's not there shouldn't have been there in the first place, but.

Much as I hate to say it, i think you really have to turn to the French for a term that really sums it up: it's a certain......

 

Edited September 13, 2009 by baddad

[Teresa]

When T started college I had to pay a deposit of £20 as a holding fee incase of damage or non return of books. I would ask to see the book if it was me before giving them the money.

 

Teresa

[Kathryn]

I wouldn't have minded paying a deposit as long as they are upfront about it - but this has just been sprung on me, and I don't know how many other parents.

 

I wonder if there'll be a queue of parents wanting to inspect their child's old book next week?

 

Thanks for all your opinions. It's relatively unimportant considering what some parents are going through with their child's school, but it's the principle of the thing and I can ill afford to part with £13 50 for no good reason.

 

K x

[Kathryn]

In a strange twist my son tells me the teacher has told him they may have confused him with another child in his class who has the same surname. The other child did not receive a letter, but his year 8 book was witheld. Which might explain why my son was a bit confused about the alleged damage and why he ended up with a book anyway.

 

So I'm sitting tight and awaiting the outcome of this confusion. As my son actually has a year 8 book, we can afford to wait...

 

K x

[pookie170]

Hopefully it'll get sorted swiftly, Kathryn.

We've had a very similar conversation with small tonight. He told my OH that 'Mrs X said she would be extremely annoyed indeed if I don't find my reading book by tomorrow....' *snif, snif*!!

Big, puppy dog eyes swimming with tears, trembling lower lip (he does it incredibly well, btw!)

Fairly sure he was expecting a comforting 'There, there!!' and hug from Mum who would undoubtedly sort it out.

 

 

Umm, where have you been living for the past 6 years, small son? Hmm? There...there?? Are you insane?? Find the wretched book, impudent offspring!!!

 

 

Seriously though, he never brought it home (OH was actually going to phone school about it tomorrow!) and he is clueless as to it's hiding place.

I'm wondering if it's been left at the after school club, perhaps? Still, no way will I be forking out for a new one, he can pay that little bill out of his savings!

(Evil me! But maybe he'll remember to look after it next time!)

Edited September 23, 2009 by pookie170

[Sooze2]

Agree to a point - but if I could catch the filthy ******* who smears bogeys over the pages of books in my local library......

 

That was my son, he does it to my books too!

[Sooze2]

Just a thought, this letter may have gone out to all the year 7 parents and they may do it every year so they get all the year 8 books for free!

 

I have a suspicious mind

[Kathryn]

Well I'm still keeping very quiet and there have been no further demands so far. Must rememnber to ask son tomorrow.

 

I hope they don't ask me for £13.50 - money is tight at the moment and if I have to pay up it will mean going without alcohol for a whole weekend month .

 

 

K x

[Karen A]

Well I'm still keeping very quiet and there have been no further demands so far. Must rememnber to ask son tomorrow.

 

I hope they don't ask me for £13.50 - money is tight at the moment and if I have to pay up it will mean going without alcohol for a whole weekend month .

 

 

K x

 

Oh dear. I would have suggested the wonderful ten pound meal deal from a certain supermarket which has funded our wine consumption for several months but they appear to have realised that some people are abusing the system to fund their wine habit.

Ben got his science text book yesterday and it does not look that new to me.Karen.

 

[julieann]

Well I'm still keeping very quiet and there have been no further demands so far. Must rememnber to ask son tomorrow.

 

I hope they don't ask me for £13.50 - money is tight at the moment and if I have to pay up it will mean going without alcohol for a whole weekend month .

 

 

K x

 

Hi Kathryn,

 

Bit late with this as don't usually stray much from education page. The tone of the letter implied to me that the person it was written to had previously refused to pay for damaged books.

 

Julieann