What academic level is needed to go mainstream

[Kazzen161]

As for SATs, I wouldn't give them house room. A total wast of everyone time and effort.

 

But at least we then have a "recognised" assessment of how well our children are doing, which can be useful in getting extra help/particular school placements. If it weren't for SATS, how could we challenge the teacher's/LA's often inaccurate assessment of our child's progress?

[Karen A]

I went to the MEP meeting on Friday, only to find my son had been sick in the taxi and that they wanted me to take him home. The SENCO (who is pregnant) said that she wasn't prepared to put herself or her child at risk by my son remaining in school for the duration of the meeting. I really had to bite my tongue as I am trying to keep a good relationship with school.

I am fuming. I thought this issue was resolved. I sent a letter from my GP and also one was sent from the Consultant at the childrens hospital saying that he should not be sent home if he is showing vomitting which ties in with having had a migraine, or with travel sickness. Yet they've just done it again. I've asked for the Head Teacher to phone me because their blanket policy of keeping them off school for 48 hours every time he is sick is meaning he is missing alot of schooling. Yet again, there is nothing wrong with him. He is eating/drinking and running around.

I have spoken with the LEA who have a policy where the children cannot sit in the front of the car until they are 10. They are also stuffing the cars full with children - my son now travels with 4 other children, and he's back to having to wear headphones - something he hasn't done for over a year.

The MEP meeting is for next Friday.

I have sent an email to the SENCO asking for her to provide me with information prior to that meeting eg. what ICT/Software my son is using to help support him with literacy and numeracy. His Statement lists some and says that software such as those should be used. After a conversation I had with his SALT I am of the opinion that they aren't using any. Which means the SENCO mislead me.

I am so sick and tired of this, I feel like it is never going to stop.

I've also come to the conclusion that i'm going to need a private assessment for dyslexia. However the PP has told me that at AR the LEA may choose not to include this private advice and recommendations and that my only course of action then would be to ask for a re-assessment. Does anyone know how long private reports are valid for. The ones I had done are just over a year old. And I cannot afford to have them done all over again.

 

Hi.

I had a thought this afternoon.

Does the Statement document clearly the software programme that the school should be using ?

If it does and the information was included following the original EP assessment then you may not need further assessments.

We had a similar issue with OT which was documented in the Statement and was not provided prior to the first AR.

I made a strong case that as it was included in the Statement provision should have been put in place and requested that it was minuted that Ben had not recieved the input as documented.The OT was not too pleased but it did resolve the problem.

If the software is listed then school should be using it otherwise the provision is not in place in line with the Staement.

It may be much less expensive to push on that issue rather than requesting another private EP assessment which may well just show that the same software is still needed.

Karen.

 

[Sally44]

 

 

It says:-

 

"Progress made with literacy must be visible and presented at Yiannis’ IEP and annual reviews. Assessment data and records should be reviewed after 6 months to ensure that Yiannis is being provided with appropriate provision and that this is being effective in furthering his skills.

 

To support the application of literacy skills, resources such as:

 

- sentence builders

- word banks using the software Clicker which enables words to be selected, listened to and manipulated

- Clicker curriculum grids which enable support with the literacy content of the curriculum

- CD-ROM story books which read text and highlight the words at the same time, such as talking books and schemes such as the ‘Oxford Reading Tree Talking Stories’

 

should be used.

 

Yiannis will have a handwriting programme that develops pencil control such as the Teodorescu programme or similar.

 

Yiannis will have a numeracy programme that is highly structured, multi-sensory and systematically builds skills. Activities will need to involve a high degree of visual and practical support with relevant practical resources. Additional drill and practice should be provided through ICT based software which will support Yiannis’ motivation and interest in practising number bonds. Progress made with numeracy must be visible and presented at Yiannis’ IEP and annual reviews. Assessment data and records should be reviewed after 6 months to ensure that Yiannis is being provided with appropriate provision and that this is being effective in furthering his skills.

 

As Yiannis is showing traits of dyslexia and dyscalculia advice should be sought by a specialist teacher for dyslexia/ dyscalculia by the school when necessary."

 

There are a number of different questions and points going on at the same time. I agree that I need to ensure that the provision in the Statement is being fulfilled. But as it says he has traits of dyslexia and dyscalculia I don't know if those software, or whatever school are doing, is both ASD and dyslexia friendly. Are they one and the same? I think that school should have asked for advice from a specialist teacher by now.

 

I am also concerned that certain strategies are being used, but I have no idea of what the outcome of it is. Eg. Precision Teaching. Isn't that supposed to tell us something? The Social Communication Group he attends - don't they have goals or targets, and if so what are they, has he achieved them and is the SALT giving this group advice as per the Statement.

 

I feel I have so many unanswered questions.

 

I had a meeting with the SENCO after about 6 months and she did go into some detail with some things and assured me that the Statement was being fulfilled. But now I know that most of the above, if not all of it, has not been done. It says 'resources such as x, y and z should be used'. Is that the same as 'will'. I would have thought that 'should' is a definate it 'should be being done'. Or if they are using something similar, it should be similar. If they are not using anything similar then surely they are not fullfilling the Statement???

 

I am just trying to keep myself calm about it, because I don't want to go into school like a bull in a china shop. As far as I can see I am in the right and I simply have to get them to confirm that they are complying or they aren't. And if they aren't then I presume I send a letter into the LEA SEN department.

 

My son quite upset me last night. He had seen some physically disabled people on TV and had asked me about it and I said 'some babies are born with problems'. So he asked "is there something wrong with me?" Then he said "if I try really hard at my work, and I remember it; will I be like the other kids?"

[trekster]

hi sally, my boy is now in yr 10 at high school, he attends an ASD resource there.He is severley dyslexic like your son.ALot of his learning difficulties are connected to auditory processing probs and an inability to remain focussed.He is also dyspraxic and has severe handwriting probs too.At yr 6 he was scoring level 2 and 3 in eng and maths.This has,nt improved at all and we have had to accept that he is never going to learn due to his difficulties.His science is alot better and with support he is working at level 7.His eng and maths classes are in small groups about 10 pupils with an lsa also and most of the kids in this class have differentiated work with in the class.It,s been the best thing for my son, we looked at private dyslexic schools but it was,nt gonna be right for him as his asd impacted on himalot aswell iyswim.Good luck with you visit on the 25th, suzex

 

Could he have access to vision therapy? Have you tried fish oils on him? Can he attend an after schools trampoline club?

[trekster]

But at least we then have a "recognised" assessment of how well our children are doing, which can be useful in getting extra help/particular school placements. If it weren't for SATS, how could we challenge the teacher's/LA's often inaccurate assessment of our child's progress?

 

ive got 3 teachers in my family and they all disagree that SATS are necessary to track a childs progress in school.

[Mumble]

But at least we then have a "recognised" assessment of how well our children are doing, which can be useful in getting extra help/particular school placements. If it weren't for SATS, how could we challenge the teacher's/LA's often inaccurate assessment of our child's progress?

That assumes that standardised tests are right (there's plenty of research to counter this) and teacher assessments are somehow 'wrong'. This comes despite a standardised test only measuring what a child can achieve on that test on a particular day under a particular set of conditions, whilst a teacher's ongoing assessment has access to a year's worth of knowledge of that child. Teachers are professionals and need recognition of this.

[Kazzen161]

Not all teachers' assessments are correct - there are various pressures on them to inflate the levels, and there may be more opportunity for this if there were no SATs tests to check.

 

I don't like SATs myself, but they did come in very handy in proving that my son was under-achieving and for getting him into a specialist placement. The LA can hardly argue with the results of SATs tests when the Government says they are accurate.

 

 

[Sally44]

Well, well, well following my email to the school SENCO, I have received a letter this morning from "the advisory teacher for children with specific learning diffiuclties", telling me that she will be attending the MEP meeting this Friday.

Strange how that is happening when I was told she no longer goes out to schools.

It all starts to make me feel very suspicious again and not trust information given to me.

Anyway, this is a positive move. Lets see what is said at the meeting on Friday.

 

[trekster]

good luck with fridays outcome sally

[julieann]

For example he was saying that if a child needed alot of adult input that would mean that the first 15 hours of LSA support they would have to provide, which would mean them pulling an LSA that supported the whole class to be his dedicated LSA, and that eventhough the LEA would 'top up' the remainder of any funding, if he needed the LSA throughout the day all week, they still cannot get back that initial 15 hours which was dedicated to the whole class

 

It's ironic that the schools were happy to use the 15 hours of LSA time on one pupil and even ask for additional help when the LA were funding the first 15 hours.

For three years I gave class support with SpLD's + ASD's when my 1:1 statemented pupil didn't need me, which she didn't all the time but I was always in her classroom in case she did. My pupil named the local specialist school as her main school this year and I have been giving whole class support in various classes using the statemented hours my pupil didn't need. The head thought that the LA were paying for it. When the SENCo pointed out to the head that the school were paying my wages and not the LA she called me to her office and said we don't need class support anymore the pupils don't really need it.

 

Julieann

[Sally44]

Had an email from the SENCO saying that the Specialist Teacher is going to provide the school with clicker software. She also says they are very happy with the progress he has made.

However he cannot write high frequency words independently - I will ask for that to be an MEP target.

I also don't think he has made 2 increment increases per academic year.

Can anyone tell me where it says that all children should make this amount of progress each year?

[Sally44]

Have spoken with ACE who say it is rough guidelines that a child will make a whole grade increase per academic year. So at the end of Key Stage 1 (in year 2) a child should be around 2b, and at the end of key stage 2 (year 6) they should be a 4b. So that means in year 4 he should be on a 3b. So my son is way way way behind. I need to ascertain if the gap between him and his peers has widened since he joined the school.

Need to go now and go through my notes ready for tomorrow.

I'll let you know how I get on. The NAS and ACE say that if they are not prepared to fulfill the Statement (and my interpretation of it is the correct one), then I need to complain to the LEA about non-compliance.

[Karen A]

Have spoken with ACE who say it is rough guidelines that a child will make a whole grade increase per academic year. So at the end of Key Stage 1 (in year 2) a child should be around 2b, and at the end of key stage 2 (year 6) they should be a 4b. So that means in year 4 he should be on a 3b. So my son is way way way behind. I need to ascertain if the gap between him and his peers has widened since he joined the school.

Need to go now and go through my notes ready for tomorrow.

I'll let you know how I get on. The NAS and ACE say that if they are not prepared to fulfill the Statement (and my interpretation of it is the correct one), then I need to complain to the LEA about non-compliance.

 

I think that would be a good idea.At the very least it will wake the school up.

Pushing the school to put in place what is documented in the Statement already would be a much quicker option than attempting to obtain evidence to persuade the LEA to conduct re-assessments.

IPSEA have a draft letter that you could use.

http://www.ipsea.org.uk/What-you-need-to-k...nImplementation

Edited November 19, 2009 by Karen A

[Sally44]

I've just had another email from the SENCO reminding me that tomorrow's meeting is supposed to be an MEP meeting and that I will have to make a further appointment to discuss other issues.

I spoke with the Head this morning who told me that my son's class teacher would be at the meeting, and when I asked if I needed to make a further appointment to discuss his progress because I had missed the parents evening - he said that we would be able to cover everything at the meeting tomorrow. So I told the SENCO that. I've also asked her to give me his progress in numeracy and literacy at the MEP meeting. I'm waiting for her to say 'we don't include those in the MEPs', because his statement says they should be presented at each IEP and AR.

 

I'm hoping to get most of the topics covered. But I don't know whether to email her with the queries I want answers to prior to any further meeting. Or whether I should keep the questions to ask at the meeting? I'm afraid I don't trust anyone, and don't want to give them information and time to 'cover their backs'.

 

I'm so angry that the SENCO led me to believe that he was receiving all the supports in his Statement. If his SALT had not asked about Clicker software I would have been none the wiser.

 

Does anyone know the computer software "Communicate in Print" and "Lexia". What skills do they work on?

[Kathryn]

Best to ask at the meeting - you may get more honest answers.

 

Good luck with the meeting tomorrow.

 

(What does MEP stand for, by the way?)

 

K x

[Sally44]

Well the meeting had its good and bad points. (But I am an optomist!)

Everyone tried to remain calm and discuss issues as adults, but it ended with the SENCO and me shouting at eachother. Then finally I burst into tears.

The school said they feel like their work is not appreciated and that they are continuously being criticised by me. To the extent that the LA felt so anxious and demoralised that she did not feel able to attend the meeting! This is because in the home school book I only write negative things. I pointed out they are not negative, they are fact. When school say he is doing something in school, and I try to do the same thing at home and he cannot do it, then I write that fact in the school book. I am not criticising or accusing the school or lying. I am just saying how it is.

So the SENCO said this is probably down to difficulties with generalisation. In which case, I said, you should understand that that is what I am talking about.

They said that in their opinion my son is making progress and they are happy with it and do not feel the need to get any further help or advice. I asked if the gap between him and his peers is widening, and they said 'Yes, and it is bound to get worse'.

I said that I was not happy with that and that I wanted the school to seek advice about his specific learning difficulties so that the his needs could be met to help him make further progress more in line with his cognitive ability. The SENCO said that they did not need to seek further advice because as an ER school they already have that experience and expertise and can make those decisions themselves.

The Specialist Teacher was there. She has brought some software into school that was part of his statement and which they were not providing. They said they were using other software, but according to advice given to me it is not comparable.

So although they say 'they are doing all they can', and should be left to get on with it. It again turns out that only after I complain are things ie. software, put into place. But at least they are now going into place some 1.5 years late.

 

I still have a couple of things I need to clarify.

She seemed to be saying that if we were not happy with the provision at this school then .....

However, at tribunal the Deputy Head came with the Inclusion Officer and they agreed to the Statement and it's contents. Therefore that is what I expect them to fulfill.

For example I asked what the results had been of using Precision Teaching. They said that they were no longer using this because firstly he got too anxious about being timed and secondly they could not ascertain if he had retained information. So they have moved him onto a different approach. So I said that as Precision Teaching is mentioned in the Statement that I wanted a letter from them saying that they had tried it and that it had not been of use with my son because of the reasons they gave me, and that they had therefore decided to try use approach. The SENCO seemed to take this as me demanding that they continue with precision teaching, which is not what I said or meant. Then they said the private EP could not have been experienced to have suggested PT. When infact it was the LEA EP who suggested it.

 

As we did not cover everything in the meeting I am going to arrange a further meeting with my son's class teacher and his TA. My husband is also going to come. I think they need to know the background to how we have got to where we are now. And I think they need to understand that the reason I always ask for things in writing and always send in letters is because I need written evidence of everything that does/doesn't happen, otherwise I have nothing to go on at Annual Reviews either at this school or any other placement. And if I want a specific placement I have to have evidence that demonstrates that that is the only suitable school. It has to be written evidence, it cannot be verbal or heresay.

 

The Parent Partnership woman came with me. She had to leave before the end of the meeting, so I need to speak to her. But I don't think I'm impressed. She seemed very wishy washy to me.

 

I also had a meeting with the Head about my son being sent home every time he is sick. He re-confirmed that if my son is sick once they will keep him in school. If he is sick twice, or complains of a headache or stomach ache then they will phone me. That is what I thought was agreed before. But when I went into school for the meeting last Friday I was told by the SENCO to take him home because she said "I am not prepared to put myself or my unborn child at risk by sitting in a room with your son.' Then she complains about 'the school feels', when she was so out of order with me.

 

So i'm feeling a little successful, and a little depressed at the same time. I would prefer a good relationship with school, but I cannot voice my opinion because I want to be their 'friend'. Statements are to be followed. They seemed to have a different opinion of them.

[Sally44]

Meant to say 'I cannot NOT voice my opinion because I want to be their 'friend'.

[Kathryn]

Oh dear Sally, it sounds stressful. Unfortunate that the meeting degenerated into a shouting match. (I shouted at my daughter's SENCO too once and to his credit he kept calm).

 

I agree with you that statements are there to be followed or what's the point of them ?! However, the goodwill of the school is essential to make them work. I hope the next meeting will be a bit less fraught and more constructive. Parent partnership are not always useful in a real conflict: it may be better to take someone who's more independent and who has the confidence to mediate between you and the school if necessary.

 

K x

 

 

[Sally44]

Oh dear Sally, it sounds stressful. Unfortunate that the meeting degenerated into a shouting match. (I shouted at my daughter's SENCO too once and to his credit he kept calm).

 

I agree with you that statements are there to be followed or what's the point of them ?! However, the goodwill of the school is essential to make them work. I hope the next meeting will be a bit less fraught and more constructive. Parent partnership are not always useful in a real conflict: it may be better to take someone who's more independent and who has the confidence to mediate between you and the school if necessary.

 

K x

 

Who, apart from the PP, could be taken as an advocate that knows enough about the SEN process?

I feel the school are trying to make me scared to raise concerns because of how they will react to it. And what ever they are feeling, they can at the end of the day go home and switch off. I live the life.

[lisac]

Wow, good for you sally, keep up the good work, most schools dont take kindly to being challenged, you know what your son needs, x

[Kazzen161]

There are some independent (free) education advocacy services around eg: KIDS - try googling.

 

PP are supposed to be independent, but they are funded by the LA and trained by the LA. My friend did the training and said they left a lot out. She had already taken on the LA and won. Strangely, she never did get anyone referred to her while she was doing PP!

[JsMum]

Who, apart from the PP, could be taken as an advocate that knows enough about the SEN process?

I feel the school are trying to make me scared to raise concerns because of how they will react to it. And what ever they are feeling, they can at the end of the day go home and switch off. I live the life.

 

 

National Autistic Society have an educational line they may know more on advacacy.

 

Also NETWORK 81 have advacacy workers they also know of other childrens advocate organisations so try them, if no joy contact A Family will be another great organisation to discuss advacay too.

 

I think you did amazingly well in that meeting, it brough back memories of my own frustrations with Js previous schools too, you are human at the end of the day, but you stood your ground.

 

I think you are doing all the right things and requesting the school senco to put it in writing is excellent.

 

Fight all the way, the LEA will do all they can to prevent a Specific special school as they want inclusion in mainstream more than anything else.

 

Stay strong.

 

JsMumxxxxx

 

[Sally44]

I almost feel it is in their interests to keep the academic attainment low, so that they can say the schools that are LEA mainstained can meet their needs. It is only when they achieve in certain areas and not in others that you have a better chance of getting a school with ASD/specific learning difficulties.

I'm going to type up all my notes of what was discussed and said, and then wait until next week to see what, if anything, they send to me. Then I will send in my letter.

I am happy for him to be there, if they fulfill the Statement as per the declaration of their Deputy Head and the Inclusion Officer at the Tribunal. My child should be in a place that can meet his Statement because that is what he needs. They said they could do that. Therefore I need documented evidence of that.

[Sally44]

I've got a visit to a Specific Learning Difficulty school next Wednesday.

And I've received an information pack from BIBIC.

So, i've got things in the pipeline to hopefull have to ready to present as my evidence at Annual Review.

[Kazzen161]

And I think they need to understand that the reason I always ask for things in writing and always send in letters is because I need written evidence of everything that does/doesn't happen, otherwise I have nothing to go on at Annual Reviews either at this school or any other placement. And if I want a specific placement I have to have evidence that demonstrates that that is the only suitable school. It has to be written evidence, it cannot be verbal or heresay.

 

I would be careful what you say. I woudl not say about evidence for another placement, as the school may then come under pressure from the LA to be even more secretive!

 

You have a right to know how he is progressing, and what provision he is getting, so just ask for them. Say you need them in writing as it is too much to take in and remember verbally. If they don't give you stuff in writing, put it in writing yourself saying "as per our meeting on...., this is what was said/agreed. If there are any errors, please let me know". Then it is up to them to come back to you.

 

You could ask them to give you a timetable that shows what they are providing each week, then you can check with your son if it is happening.

[Sally44]

I would be careful what you say. I woudl not say about evidence for another placement, as the school may then come under pressure from the LA to be even more secretive!

 

You have a right to know how he is progressing, and what provision he is getting, so just ask for them. Say you need them in writing as it is too much to take in and remember verbally. If they don't give you stuff in writing, put it in writing yourself saying "as per our meeting on...., this is what was said/agreed. If there are any errors, please let me know". Then it is up to them to come back to you.

 

You could ask them to give you a timetable that shows what they are providing each week, then you can check with your son if it is happening.

 

That is my concern. It is hard to get documented evidence without informing them of what you intend to use it for.

They have already mentioned the secondary school they are thinking of and it is not one I want to send him to. It is LEA maintained ER. But it is bigger class sizes, and went I looked at it I saw children who appeared to me to not know what they were doing. I spoke with the SENCO in the separate area they have for the ASD children within the mainstream school that they can go to if they need time out. She was very on the ball, but made it clear to me that she struggles to get the school to provide the provision the children need and is always fighting against threats of supports being withdrawn. I also know teachers from that school and they didn't recommend it.

I have never contacted KIDS before, so I will try them.

I did phone the NAS educational advisor, and unfortunately she could not answer the questions I was asking and keeps having to get advice from her supervisor. I think she must be newly trained.

[Karen A]

Hi.

I do not know if the ER for secondary for pupils with ASD in your area is similar to the one in my area.

We looked at the one in our area but found a few disadvantages that I thought worth mentioning.

Pupils can end up spending increasing amounts of time in the ASD unit within the school.As the unit is there it may be easier for teachers to encourage pupils to use the unit rather than dealing with difficulties in class.

Bullying can be an issue which may not be addressed if pupils can go to the ER to escape.

If the secondary school is a large school the unit may still end up being a segregated unit within the school if inclusion is not actively supported.

The good practice within the unit may not be adopted as a whole school approach if school are not inclusive.

Karen.

[Sally44]

Hi.

I do not know if the ER for secondary for pupils with ASD in your area is similar to the one in my area.

We looked at the one in our area but found a few disadvantages that I thought worth mentioning.

Pupils can end up spending increasing amounts of time in the ASD unit within the school.As the unit is there it may be easier for teachers to encourage pupils to use the unit rather than dealing with difficulties in class.

Bullying can be an issue which may not be addressed if pupils can go to the ER to escape.

If the secondary school is a large school the unit may still end up being a segregated unit within the school if inclusion is not actively supported.

The good practice within the unit may not be adopted as a whole school approach if school are not inclusive.

Karen.

 

These were all my concerns, as I felt he would end up spending his time in the unit because they were not prepared to meet his needs mainstream. However he was refused a place in an autism unit at primary because he was considered too able. But I know how they can change the criteria to fit where they want to place the child.

I'm really annoyed that his school already seem to have made up their mind which secondary school is the one for him. No parental choice then?

[Sally44]

Kids say they cannot come to an AR with me, but i'm waiting for her to return my call and give me the information she has found out about others that might be able to.

I'll try the other organisations as well, if I don't get any luck down this route.

Thanks everyone for the info.