How often do LA's go all the way to tribunal?

[daniels-mum]

Good Evening everyone, today was the deadline of my appeal to SENDIST, I am appealing over the LA not issing a statement after a Statutory Assessment. I sent my forms special delivery on Tuesday and I know they arrived yesterday as I tracked it. I also sent copy to the LA as required, which they probably will have received today, depending on the post.

 

I havent got a copy of the LA's submission in the post but have received an email from the Responsible Officer this afternoon (but only read tonight), she has said the Further Information form is attached, I was just copied in to this as SENDIST was the main recipient, anyway the documents have not attched. I have emailed her back and asked for forms resending tomorrow.

 

My appeal date is 21st Jan, I was hoping that it wouldnt get as far as tribunal but this is looking less and less likely. In people's experience if the LA is going to concede the appeal would they have done so by now, or do they leave it until last minute sometimes. I am fully prepared to go to tribunal but ideally would prefer not to. I have sent alot of supporting documents and I also have a letter of support frokm Community Paedtrician, and a letter from CAMHS stating sons diagnosis, and that he is receiving specific therpaies etc. I am so fed up with it, it is just overshadowing Christmas at the moment, I thought I would feel better today after forms all posted off, deadline over etc, but I feel as bad as ever.

 

Im not sure if anyone else has any experiences they can share about this stage of the appeal process,

 

I am sorry for such a moaning post, I have just re read it, its just driving me mad sitting here thinking about it

Edited December 17, 2009 by daniels-mum

[Sally44]

I think alot of LAs just try to drag it out as long as possible. It saves them money.

You are at the stage of appealing for a Statement to be issued. If you have alot of supporting evidence of his needs then that is working in your favour. If you have supporting letters for other professionals that too will work in your favour. Try not to worry about the LA. What is important is the evidence you have submitted. Panel they will look at the documentation and make a decision. The LA has to comply with their decision.

My LA did agree to issue a Statement, but we went to tribunal because we were not happy with the proposed statement. We did have a meeting with the LA SEN Officer, and the LA did phone me a couple of times. I think the meeting with the LA was useful, because the PP were with me and recorded the blatant lies they told me.

So be careful if they do suddenly want to see or speak with you. Just let it go to tribunal, unless they decide beforehand to issue a Statement. In our case we got 5 mins into the actual tribunal. When the Panel asked the LA if they were going to abide by the CoP (and to fulfill that they had to agree to our version of the Statement). So the Panel told us to go into a separate room and sort out the final wording of some areas of disagreement. That happened. So we never actually went through the tribunal process.

The Panel are much nicer and more reasonable than the LA anyway! So just keep your eye on that goal. If the LA decides to issue a statement before tribunal then that is okay, but don't be persuaded to drop your appeal because they promise you something. Eg. we will give your child xxx hours support if you don't go to appeal. The Statement should identify every need in section 2 with recommendations on how to meet those needs in section 3. You will not get a better deal that is legally enforceable outside of a Statement. Therefore you need a Statement and not promises of support that don't happen and are not legally enforceable.

Keep strong, and have a good christmas and new year.

[Kathryn]

Although the new rules were supposed to prevent LA's from conceding at the last minute by making them look at the paperwork earlier, it can still happen, and it's still early days as far as that's concerned. I know of a case last week which was settled the day before. However don't pin your hopes too much on this because you would want to be fully prepared if you have to go ahead.

 

Try to see it positively: this is the best chance you'll ever get to have your say about your son, and be listened to fairly - it's your day and you deserve it, so go for it!.

 

Although it's difficult, try to put it aside now and have a relaxing Christmas. <'>

 

K x

 

 

[CarerQuie]

My LA conceded on a Friday when the tribunal would have been on the following Monday. xx

[JsMum]

 

 

Hi, I was terrified of going to tribunal but in the end I knew it was the only way and I bought a suit and everything, had reports and solisitor reports and was going to give it my all, then a week before the LEA agreed to everything in part 2,3 and 4 so there was no need for a tribunal.

 

I never got to wear my new suit, which gutted me the most.

 

Give the intentions that you will go all the way to tribunal, if the LEA think you might pull out at the last minuet they may well go all the way too just to see if you do.

 

You can do this, I know deep down you know that too.

 

JsMumxxxxx

 

[daniels-mum]

Thanks to all who replied, I do appreciate people taking the time, I am feeling a bit better about things now, was having a right old wobble last week!

 

I got the bundle of papers today, I didn't think it would be so soon as they said it would be around 7th Jan.

 

The LA havn't submitted any further evidence, they have just filled the further information form in and send that on the afternoon of 17th which was deadline day. They are obviously relying on their witness's who are the SENCO (also senior asst head) and the Ed Psyc. I am surprised they havnt submitted any further documents but I suppose they could still ask for some to be submitted as late evidence, I sent loads in with mine.

 

They have also assumed that DS father is coming to the tribunal but he isn't, I only put his name down as second parent because I thought I had to, we are not together and is not involved in any of this, by his own choosing. Do you think I need to inform the panel he wont be coming?

 

I am not expecting to hear anything now from the LA until tribunal day. The Independent Parental Supporter is coming to see me on 7th Jan to go through the paperwork. I am determined to go as I know I have nothing to lose. I am even considering writing to my local MP and the chief officer of LA about my DS funding been withdrawn but I dont want to come across as been militant and annoy the panel, I may be forced into it as a last resort if the tribunal doesnt go my way. Even the SENCO has said off record she doesnt agree with the funding system, although dont for a minute expect her to say this to the tribunal.

 

DS who is 12 yrs is oblivious to all this and just lives in a bubble, he doesnt seem to have the emotional capability to take any of this on board. I dont think school have asked him his views at all, or they havnt submitted it as evidence if they have. He thought he was going to die earlier because he got caught up in a mini blizard in car with his stepdad and was really scared. I am worried about him at the moment but thats another thread!

 

Thank you everyone for your patience xx <'>

[Kathryn]

Regarding evidence, the rules are stricter than they used to be. If the last date for evidence has passed, the LA will not be able to submit any more information, and neither will you, unless there is a very good reason - e.g. circumstances have changed recently and there is new information.

 

I think it would be courtesy to tell the tribunal your ex won't be coming - even if just to ensure they put out the right number of chairs!

 

Hang in there <'>

 

K x

[JsMum]

They are obviously relying on their witness's who are the SENCO (also senior asst head) and the Ed Psyc.

 

This is what upset me the most too, that the witness was going to be the Ed Psych that actually assessed him, witnessed his behaviour, I cant believe the LEA will use their own employees to stack up against a child, the very people going as witnesses should be doing all they can to ensure the child accessess all they need, instead the LEA use them as pawns, its disgusting, it really does upset me when I read posts like yours because I have been there too, how can these proffessionals sleep at night?

 

JsMumxxx

 

[daniels-mum]

Thank you everyone for your replies, it is really helpful and I do take it all on board, I just seem to take so much from this forum and never give back!

 

I have the tribunal on Thursday this week, I have tomorow off work aswell so I can get myself ready for it. I am just tying myself in knots about it, I may take some Kalms or something to try and ease the nerves.

 

My son is just oblivious to it all, we are also going to CAMHS tomorrow for him to start some Cognitive Behaviour Therapy.

 

I requested his school file in to see if there was anything in that would help, but I have left it rather late to get anything submitted as evidence. There were some questionaire's that each of his subject teachers filled in (he is yr7 secondary school btw) and alot of them said works well with support as he has had a full time TA. 2 or 3 of them have specifed he really needs the TA. These are from November though. The SENCO is going as a witness for the LA as is the Ed Psyc. I think the SENCO will say that he is doing okay and doesnt need TA, despite what the subject teachers have said. She has said that I need "frequent reassurance that his needs are been met" in a fax to his Community Paedtrician, this was in his file that I requested. Im probably a bit over sensitive at the moment but I just get the feeling she things I am a pain. I have just found out that she had a meeting with the SALT in November that I was never made aware of, she told her that he was doing fine, they had no concern about his academic progress and his TA will be withdrawn as he doesnt need it, yet he still has full time TA now in January. It is all so confusing.

 

I read on here when I joined this forum that Education will be the hardest battle, and they are not wrong!!!!!

Edited January 19, 2010 by daniels-mum

[Kathryn]

All the best, Daniels Mum, will be thinking of you. Try and stay as calm and detached as possible from anything the Senco might say. You've already done the hard work in putting together your case, all you have to do now is turn up on the day and tell your story.

 

Whatever happens, you'll be able to go to sleep on Thursday night knowing you've done the very best you could for your son.

 

<'>

 

K x

Edited January 19, 2010 by Kathryn

[JsMum]

Thank you everyone for your replies, it is really helpful and I do take it all on board, I just seem to take so much from this forum and never give back!

 

I have the tribunal on Thursday this week, I have tomorow off work aswell so I can get myself ready for it. I am just tying myself in knots about it, I may take some Kalms or something to try and ease the nerves.

 

My son is just oblivious to it all, we are also going to CAMHS tomorrow for him to start some Cognitive Behaviour Therapy.

 

I requested his school file in to see if there was anything in that would help, but I have left it rather late to get anything submitted as evidence. There were some questionaire's that each of his subject teachers filled in (he is yr7 secondary school btw) and alot of them said works well with support as he has had a full time TA. 2 or 3 of them have specifed he really needs the TA. These are from November though. The SENCO is going as a witness for the LA as is the Ed Psyc. I think the SENCO will say that he is doing okay and doesnt need TA, despite what the subject teachers have said. She has said that I need "frequent reassurance that his needs are been met" in a fax to his Community Paedtrician, this was in his file that I requested. Im probably a bit over sensitive at the moment but I just get the feeling she things I am a pain. I have just found out that she had a meeting with the SALT in November that I was never made aware of, she told her that he was doing fine, they had no concern about his academic progress and his TA will be withdrawn as he doesnt need it, yet he still has full time TA now in January. It is all so confusing.

 

I read on here when I joined this forum that Education will be the hardest battle, and they are not wrong!!!!!

 

 

I just want to wish you all the luck in the world with all this, it is undaugtably a very emotionally, draining time, but please dont feel you are a pain, this is what the senco is only wishing you feel like in hope you will give up, so dont give up, go all the way, you have some strong evidence there in the subject reports, I would still take them, the panel may still be interested, as you only just recieved them too, so take what you can.

 

Your a fighter, you can do this, take tomorrow to do something nice too, a warm bath, listen to relaxing music, take some time out ready for Thursday, I will be really really holding out for you and will be thinking about you, when you get in their a way to relax is just imagine the senco and ed psych with no clothes on, just tell the panel how it really is.

 

Good Luck Good luck, I am going to burn a special candle to give you a sign of courage and light.

 

Prayers everything going your way.

 

JsMumxxx

 

 

 

[wasuup]

Yes thinking of you. Just keep your chin up xx <'>

[daniels-mum]

Thank you so much everyone, it really means alot. I dont know what I would do without this forum, I dont post often but I always know I can come here if I need any advice or support. I just wish I had more experience to offer advice and be able to contribute more.

 

I think my head is just going to explode at the moment, I have lived and breathed this appeal for so long and dont want to contemplate it going aginst me, although that could always happen if the LA get their way. I am determined to give it my all as I know this is it and I wont get another shot, I am dreading it though, I am not very good at confrontation and I think this is why I am so stressed out about it, at least I know that Thursday night it wall be over, pending the dreaded letter arriving in the post!!!

 

Thank you again for all your best wishes, I really appreciate it and it does help xx

 

[Sally44]

When I went to tribunal I was also very nervous.

But I found the panel to be good ordinary people and they were reassuring to me.

They are not on anyone's side, so don't think they will automatically side with the LEA. They will look at the evidence on both sides. You will get a chance to say your opinions. You might find it helpful to just write a list of words on a small piece of paper to help you remember to cover everything.

 

If you find any of the words or terminology that others or panel are using are confusing, just ask them what that means.

 

 

[JsMum]

Firstly some of these <'> and what ever the outcome, youve done your best, but Im hoping and praying its what you want, I have been thinking about you and lighted a candle for hope.

 

LOTS

 

Let us know how it goes today.

 

JsMumxxxx

<'> <'> <'> <'> <'>

[julie1]

i really hope things go as you want them to. wishing you luck, and try to stay calm as you wait for the letter.

[bluefish]

hope all went well for you and that you get the result you want. Have been thinking of you today x <'>

[daniels-mum]

Well it did go all the way to tribunal!!

 

Thank you everyone for all your good wishes and postive messages, I am so grateful and it really helped. I feel like I can breathe again and hopefully will sleep tonight.

 

It was about 3 and half hours altogether with a short break, my sister had come along just to wait for us but they let her in as an observer which was kind of the panel. It wasnt as bad as I thought, I think I was imagining it to be like a trial and I was thinking the SENCO and LA Rep would be cross examing me.

 

The panel had obviously read the whole bundle and I could see there were pages they had highlighted to ask questions. The questions they did ask were spot on and they were very astute, they asked questions that wouldn't necessarily think of and they just seemed to "get it" if that makes sense. Most of the questions were directed at the SENCO, and things got a bit heated over Speech and Language Therapy. She admitted that the funding they received for D went nowhere near to the £15000 needed to pay for a TA, which they were currently providing. They did say that support had been withdrawn for a couple of lessons as a bit of a trial run but other than that he still has 1:1 support. The LA rep really played very little part actually, but I think she was quite badly prepared. Its hard to say but I think it went reasonably well. I actually spoke to the SENCO afterwards, I told her it was nothing personal and she did understand and was actually quite nice, I dont think she will be wanting to go back to another in a hurry!!

 

I suppose it is just waiting for the letter now, I just dont want to get my hopes up too much if that makes sense xxx

 

 

 

 

[JsMum]

I was going to say you have done the hardest part, but now its the waiting, that is real endurance, what ever the result you have to be really proud of going all the way, soooo many parents would not of gone this far, you were braver than the LEA rep by the sound of it, I really do hope that what ever happens it is for your boy, when we where going for tribunal speech and language was brouht up too, even though he has a severe language disorder he didnt have any speech and language therapy and he had no social communication in his statement, once our statement was amended speech and language needs where added and a whole new compartment on communication addedd.

 

I hope you do get some sleep, you sure are a great mum thats for sure,

 

JsMumxxx

 

[julie1]

all you have to do now is hang in there and wait for the letter. You did well, its a very scarry thing tribunal ive done it and will need to go again for another child bit i dread it just the same. i hope your son gets everything he needs you have cirtanly done your best which is all any of us can do.

[wasuup]

Well done you!!

[Kathryn]

Well done - you did it: be proud of yourself! <'>

 

Now have a good long rest.

 

K x

[Grace]

Well done you! Hope you have a wonderful night's sleep - so pleased to read it went well - I think it's great that you came away and felt that they had understood where you were coming from.

 

Very brave - waiting is hard, but you couldn't have done more. I rang when the day was due to make sure I would be getting the result on time - I couldn't bear the thought of hanging aroud the letterbox all day to be disappointed! They were really kind and understanding and assured me there was no delay. Hope you get yours quickly!

[JsMum]

Well done you! Hope you have a wonderful night's sleep - so pleased to read it went well - I think it's great that you came away and felt that they had understood where you were coming from.

 

Very brave - waiting is hard, but you couldn't have done more. I rang when the day was due to make sure I would be getting the result on time - I couldn't bear the thought of hanging aroud the letterbox all day to be disappointed! They were really kind and understanding and assured me there was no delay. Hope you get yours quickly!

 

Grace how long does it take to recieve a letter after going to tribunal? the waiting is sooo hard, but hang in there Daniels mum.xxxx hope you got some sleep!

 

JsMUMXXX

 

[Grace]

Hi JsMum,

 

Had to look it up to make sure, but it says 10 working days from the Hearing. I had been warned it could be longer than that, so I rang to check and luckily it was on time - the waiting is awful, especially the last few days, when you wonder if today is the day!

 

I think that not only are you praying for the right result, but you also are worried sick how you'll cope if it is the wrong one. A friend told me to just consider that this is one step and if I lose, I just take the next step - it is not the end.

 

Good luck to anyone out there waiting!

[Sally44]

Well you've been there, seen it, done it and bought the T-shirt.

Well done.

 

[Athena]

I have been following your case with interest, as I am writing an appeal to Sendist myself at the moment, against Parts 2 and 3 of DD's Statement. Have been so busy, haven't even had time to post for a while, but I am sure that I will be back, with loads of questions for you all soon! Just want to get something down on paper first.

 

Fingers, toes, everything crossed for you, but it sounds as if the hearing went well.

[daniels-mum]

Thanks everyone for the good wishes, its really kind, I am so pleased I did it, regardless of the result, I would never have forgiven myself if I hadnt gone as far as I could with it.

 

I can echo your feelings Grace in that I am praying for the right result but so scared of it been the wrong one, I am quite superstitious and dont want to count my chickens, I think I did that with the statutory assessment and was devasted when it was the note in lieu.

 

Good luck Athena BTW, you are def on the right place for good advice

 

Off topic but I have just been watching the slum children in India, truly heartbreaking aswell as the Haiti earthquake, just no fun been a grown up is it xx

[JsMum]

Thanks everyone for the good wishes, its really kind, I am so pleased I did it, regardless of the result, I would never have forgiven myself if I hadnt gone as far as I could with it.

 

I can echo your feelings Grace in that I am praying for the right result but so scared of it been the wrong one, I am quite superstitious and dont want to count my chickens, I think I did that with the statutory assessment and was devasted when it was the note in lieu.

 

Good luck Athena BTW, you are def on the right place for good advice

 

Off topic but I have just been watching the slum children in India, truly heartbreaking aswell as the Haiti earthquake, just no fun been a grown up is it xx

I have been watching all the slum childrens documantary films lately, there even on Teachers TV too, and secret millionare even had slum children and families, its really an eye opener, and the Haiti situation is really bad and Ive shed a few tears too, puts our lives in to prospective defo, but still your boy desrerves an education here in his country that meets his SEN too.. we cant change the world but we do can change our own childrens future!

 

JsMumxxx

 

Edited January 23, 2010 by JsMum

[daniels-mum]

Hi everyone, sorry I have not been able to get get on for a while as things have been chaotic, but

 

WE WON THE TRIBUNAL!!!!!!!!!

 

I am still taking it in, I thought it had gone well on the day but didnt want to tempt fate by saying too much at the time, havnt heard anything from the LA yet but apparently they have 5 weeks to issue proposed statement. The LA rep was very badly prepared at hearing and to be honest was no support to the SENCO who seemed to bear the brunt of the whole hearing. The EP was very quiet. I would love to have been a fly on the wall of the LA rep when she found out, ha ha.

 

The panel were concerned that DS was receiving no Speech & Language Therapy, no Occupantional Therapy programme for fine motor skills and no extra computer lessons, as all these were recommended in the Note in Lieu. At the hearing the SENCO said that the support DS was getting at present cost about £15000 and this was without any extra things, like SALT or OT and they could not possibly cover this out of his funding which was only about a quarter of that. The panel also said it is far too early to say if DS will cope if and when support is withdrawn as the SENCO proposed and this would need to be closely monitored by the school.

 

The only person who was blissfully unaware of everything was DS himself who is still in his own little bubble as ever.

 

I am so so grateful for everyone's support on here and all the good luck messages, they really did help and gave me so much valuable advice for the hearing. I know I still have a way to go yet getting the statement sorted but am so thankful that I have got this far.

 

 

 

 

[JsMum]

Well thank goodness for that and as Im religous, Thank God For that! I have been thinking about you this whole time and wouldnt dare think of the results as I so wanted it to be in your favour, loved loved your reply, made me sooo happy and I have a smile as wide as a chesher cat.

 

Well Done, its over baby go and celebrate, wow, fantastic news.

 

 

JsMumxxxx

 

[wasuup]

Hi everyone, sorry I have not been able to get get on for a while as things have been chaotic, but

 

WE WON THE TRIBUNAL!!!!!!!!!

 

I am still taking it in, I thought it had gone well on the day but didnt want to tempt fate by saying too much at the time, havnt heard anything from the LA yet but apparently they have 5 weeks to issue proposed statement. The LA rep was very badly prepared at hearing and to be honest was no support to the SENCO who seemed to bear the brunt of the whole hearing. The EP was very quiet. I would love to have been a fly on the wall of the LA rep when she found out, ha ha.

 

The panel were concerned that DS was receiving no Speech & Language Therapy, no Occupantional Therapy programme for fine motor skills and no extra computer lessons, as all these were recommended in the Note in Lieu. At the hearing the SENCO said that the support DS was getting at present cost about £15000 and this was without any extra things, like SALT or OT and they could not possibly cover this out of his funding which was only about a quarter of that. The panel also said it is far too early to say if DS will cope if and when support is withdrawn as the SENCO proposed and this would need to be closely monitored by the school.

 

The only person who was blissfully unaware of everything was DS himself who is still in his own little bubble as ever.

 

I am so so grateful for everyone's support on here and all the good luck messages, they really did help and gave me so much valuable advice for the hearing. I know I still have a way to go yet getting the statement sorted but am so thankful that I have got this far.

 

Absolutely fantastic news!!! :notworthy: :notworthy:

[Athena]

So pleased to hear that you won! Well done!

 

I am appealing too, so I love to read success stories,they keep me going!

[Sally44]

Well done.

 

Something to consider and file away on the back burner for a while is how much the support is costing. If the school say it currently costs £15,000 without SALT and OT input, along with other stuff - does LEA pay transport etc. You may find yourself in a position where it would be cost effective for your son to go to an ASD only independent or private school. So if his current placement does not work you may be able to argue the case to consider other options.