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Sally44

Move from mainstream to special school

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I'm just wondering what others experiences were of moving their child from mainstream to specialist ASD provision only, and what triggered the move. For example did you prove that they were not achieving academically, or had needs that could not be met in mainstream, or was it sensory issues or social skills or life skills etc.

 

I'm especially interested in anyone who managed to get an independent, out of county or private school placement.

 

 

 

 

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Oo, that's a biggy! And very subjective, ie dependent on a lot of factors. I can tell you what happened to us... apologies if I've bored you with my story before!

 

My second son has ASD, is now 10 and moved into an out-of-county ASD-specific independent school in September. It was a lengthy battle to get him there.

 

He started at mainstream primary with a Statement of 12 hours 1:1. We were not initially certain this would be the best place for him and thought he might be better off in an MLD school with autism provision. One of our main reasons was his extreme sensory sensitivity and his significant sp&Lang difficulties, principally with receptive language but with a knock-on effect on his expressive language.

 

But with Inclusion being the policy there was great pressure to go mainstream. For the first couple of years things went fairly well, and although his levels were always below the other children's, they weren't significantly so.

 

By the end of Year 2 the cracks started to show; he is generally a very passive child but his behaviour started to deteriorate at school. In Year 3 we realised that mainstream was not working for him; the effect was that he was being 'babysat' rather than taught in a way that was meaningful to him. He couldn't understand the language of the classroom, which was now getting more sophisticated, couldn't understand the social and unwritten rules and the sensory issues were huge (one being that he's very sensitive to sound and noise).

 

When SALT provision was reduced and discharge threatened, his Statement was amended and we appealed. The result was a vastly improved Statement with 25 hours of 1:1, SALT maintained and OT added in Part 3. The school struggled to implement it all, saying it was a mainstream school not a special school.

 

But despite the enhance provision, things got worse. The 1:1 just made him dependent on his LSA and his independence plummeted. Being at school just became too much for him - everything was going over his head and of course this was reflected in his behaviour. During the first term of Year 4 he began to withdraw and disengage, both at school and at home. It was very alarming. The LA were obstructive at every point and refused our request for an early Review. We then requested a Statutory Re-assessment and built such a good case that it was approved - we had to fight very hard and the stress was enormous.

 

The turning point came when the school finally confirmed at the Annual Review that it could no longer meet his needs. However, even that would have been brushed aside by the LA if we hadn't carried on fighting our corner - the LA tried to say it didn't count as part of the reassessment, and neither did his current Statement!

 

The big question was, where will he now go? and this probably explains the LA's reticence to review and re-assess - in my LA, there is no alternative provision. By this point we had four EPs (two independent, two from the LA) ALL confirming that he does not have additonal learning difficulties, that it is in fact his autism that is 'getting in the way of his learning'. But the LA insisted that the alternative to mainstream would be MLD, since that is all there is here. No units attached to mainstream, for example. Our EP argued that MLD would exacerbate his situation even more, since the majority of the issues he had difficulty with would still exist and he would be taught at an inappropriately lower academic level.

 

It then took about another four months, again with us fighting tooth and nail, to establish that he needed an autism-specific setting. It was a chance in a million that the nearest, 25 miles away, had an appropriate space for him. This was all wrapped up right at the end of Year 4 and in September 2009 he started at his new school.

 

Wow, the difference is amazing!!!!! He is so happy, his stress and anxiety have almost evaporated and - the icing on the cake - he is learning!! It's so obvious that he is now in the right place. he even copes with the 1.5hrs travelling both morning and afternoon, and as a family we are all benefiting hugely. It's the best thing ever. It even turns out that he is quite bright!! I feel now that he has a chance to reach his potential, which he never would have had if he'd stayed at mainstream. Inclusion just did not work for him; he was a square peg being firmly pushed into a round hole.

 

Phew, sorry but it's a bit of a saga. Does that help at all? Feel free to PM me if you like.

 

Lizzie x

Edited by BusyLizzie100

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My son had files full of "incidents" and issues. He went to a unit in a very good mainstream junior school and they did everything they possibly could have done, but he still could not cope with being in the mainstream part and had very challenging behaviour.

 

Academically he was doing OK (though could have done better), but his behaviour was so challenging, even the LA never suggested mainstream secondary. I had to fight to get a specialist school that could meet his academic, behavioural, social, life and independence skills (the LA would have liked him to go to their MLD school).

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My son is in a specialist school that not only meets ASD but Dyslexia, ADHD, Dyspraxia, Dysgraphia, every co morbid you can think of, which is why we chose it, J did not cope at all in mainstream even from day one, in those days you went throw the ranks of the SEN, when he finally got a statement we realised it still wasnt meeting his needs, and some of his needs where not even recognised or met.

 

In year six J hardly attended, he was signed off sick for 8 weeks until the GP refused to sign anymore saying that J cant be off for the rest of his life, LEA have to meet his needs, which is easier said than done, we battled on with a part time statement and a part time time table, the next step was they increased his part time statement to full time, but he attended one day, and didnt attend any more.

 

I insisted on a specialist school, after two Headteachers from Secondary schools said they cant meet his needs that is when the LEA suggested a MLD day special school, we had reports and assessments to prove J did not have MLD, but had spersific needs and MLD would not meet his needs either, also he had severe anxiety in a school and school refusal began to worsen, we wouldnt of got him in a day school, we where able to provide reports that said Js needs where a 24 hour curriculum, also with his additional needs he needed a spersific type of education, a Specialist Residential school that caters for ASD/ADHD/Dyslexia ect..... we do not have any in the area, the ones that where closer to home on outer skirts of our county did not meet Js needs so we were able to look into outer county.

 

You need to prove that his presant school can not meet his needs.

 

You need to prove the child needs a 24hr curriculum. (if its residential)

 

You need to prove there is no other school in your area that can meet your sons needs.

 

You need to prove that he requires a spersific special school to meet his needs.

 

For us the changes are very similair to Busylizzies, we now have a child who has attended every day for the last year and half, he loves school, he is now reading, writing, doing maths, he is excelling in his subjects, he has friends, which is what he likes the best, the fact there is others at his school that are like him, he has opened up, become confident, very chatty, very funny, he is just a much happier kid, not once I dont think he was ever happy in a mainstream classroom, a mainstream enviroement did not meet his needs.

 

His specialist school does, he is thriving, as a consequence so is his family, as a child with special needs who doesnt cope in a mainstream setting effects everyone around them.

 

Specialist school has changed all our lives.

 

JsMumxxx

 

Edited by JsMum

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Hi Sally its a shame Lauren isn,t active on the forum anymore as she could tell you /advise alot on the subject, she battled, tribunal etc after her son had been off school a long time and I believe he is now doing very well at an ASD specific school, it is also residential.Seems anything independent requires a battle of some sort , once they have started in mainstream, iyswim. best wishes suzex.

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Hi Sally -

 

I think it's a very complex issue, and all sorts of factors can prompt the decision...

In our case my son did very well in mainstream primary and certainly benefited hugely from it, but I, and the primary school, both felt that the transition to a mainstream secondary school would be challenging his social abilities to the extreme. There was one mainstream I did consider, but when I visited it and saw the number of kids rushing around between lessons etc (and this was quite a smallish secondary by local standards) I could very easily see him being overwhelmed by it all.

I also looked at a couple of other options: an ASD unit attached to a mainstream school and a specialised speech and language unit attached to a mainstream school, but with both I found their inclusion policies very suspect (basically there wasn't any! What's the point of a mainstream unit that doesn't offer the benefit of stepped and planned integration?) and with the S&LT unit it was also very clear that 'S&LT' weren't my son's major problem and the factors that were problems were unlikely to be addressed any better than in mainstream...

Unlike some of the others this transition wasn't particularly easy, because the expectations I and the primary school had of my son seemed to be higher than those in the 'special' school, and he very quickly started to exploit this, modelling his behaviour on the other kids and taking the easy route as far as lessons went. After several meetings/letters etc, though, we (school and home) were all thinking on the same wavelength, the bar was raised accordingly and he's now doing brilliantly again (pupil of the month for his class and the whole school at the end of last term! :thumbs::wub: )

I think in any school situation the home/school relationship and communication is of paramount importance. There can be all sorts of reasons why that breaks down, and when it does any move that fosters a better relationship is going to pay dividends; but that's not always a reflection on the schools - it can equally be a reflection on the parents or on the lack of communication from both sides. Certainly, though the vast majority were extremely happy with my son's primary school, I do know some parents whose children didn't do so well there who would say differently. But if I'm entirely honest (which I usually am! :lol: ) I've gotta say that from my perspective the 'problems' almost always seemed to be with the parent's attitude (and consequently the child's) rather than the schools. Of course, that's one isolated situation, and is not a comment on any individual situation: I do know that I was lucky with my son's primary and fully accept that not all schools operate to the same standards, but it is also an 'incovenient truth' that what happens at home has a significant effect on what happens in school, and if negative patterns arise at the outset and are not addressed (or are actually 'flamed') it doesn't matter how good the school is. That applies equally to a 'new' school after a move as it does to the original school.

I guess in a nutshell the real trick is to find the right school, by going and looking (with my son's secondary I imagined him in it in the same way i imagined him in the mainstream I rejected and I saw him happier there than in any of the other alternatives and saw also that they could meet his academic needs - no point being happy at school if you learn nowt!) and weighing up all the options. Once you've made that decision the next phase has to be creating a mutually respectful relationship with the school, with cooperation and compromise as necessary on both sides.

On the purely practical level of dealing with the LEA/Panel you have to pretty much have a cast iron case for why the school you've chosen is the only one that can meet your child's needs and good evidence to show why other schools the LEA might suggest won't be able to. That's even more important if the school is 'out of area' or residential or in some other way a more costly option than the LEA's suggestions.Then you start fighting!

 

Hope that helps

 

L&P

 

BD :D

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I feel that my son is happier at the Enhanced Resource primary school he currently attends.

He does not have any behavioural problems - but if he does become upset, eg. I forgot to send him in with his swimming kit, then school told me it took over half an hour to calm him down and return him to lessons.

He is aware that he is not doing well academically.

I missed parents evening, so I need to meet with his class teacher. But I believe he is at the bottom of the class in this mainstream SEN classroom.

 

When I go to Annual Review I will say that I believe he needs to be in the private school xxx, which we tried for at last tribunal. That school is specific for speech and communication disorders, autism, dyslexia, dysgraphia etc - all of which he has.

 

The ER school says that as they already have so much experience about dyslexia that they are already doing what any specialist school would do, but I don't know what that is.

 

School are very reluctant to tell me anything.

They say I am very critical of them - which I feel is their way of trying to stop me telling them what my opinion is, and to try to shut me up.

 

I feel alot of his difficulties are being ascribed to autism, when they may be SPLD and the fact that the approaches they are using are not right for him.

 

The LEA's EP has said to "stop harking back to the past" (which was when his academic achievements were actually better), and "I am at a loss as to what you want me to do. Perhaps if you let me know ...." But basically I want her to do her job. It isn't for me to tell her what he needs.

 

I spoke with ACE on Friday, and they suggested not involving a private EP at the annual review stage, and to wait for the results of that and then use a private EP if I need to ask for a reassessment of the Statement.

 

I supposed my son has developed a vomitting syndrome recently which is due to stress. I have been referred back to the developmental paediatrician who diagnosed him to talk to her about this. I am also seeing the clinical psychologist to discuss his academic progress with her. But although he does not want to go to school, and often refuses for a while, he always eventually goes. So he isn't at a stage where I would need a sick note to keep him off school etc.

 

I feel that I will be forced to leave the situation unless he is physically/mentally ill before another placement is considered. But his performance is so low for a child of his capabilities and no-one seems bothered about that. Infact they appear to expect low performance.

 

For example they say he has problems with generalisation. I don't feel that he does. When he learnt whole word flash cards he knew them in school and at home. But he does not know phonics in the same way. I believe this is not due to generalisation problems. It is due to SPLD compensation strategies such as trying to 'remember' things without meaning behind them.

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The LEA's EP has said to "stop harking back to the past" (which was when his academic achievements were actually better), and "I am at a loss as to what you want me to do. Perhaps if you let me know ...." But basically I want her to do her job. It isn't for me to tell her what he needs.

 

Sally - with the best will in the world you're not asking her to do her job - you're asking her to do what you think her job is, which is a completely different thing. the fact that she hasn't reached the same conclusions you have doesn't mean she's not doing her job.

That seems to be the same story with school, too: you have your idea of what they should be doing/what you want from them, and the fact that they are not doing what you want is the bone of contention that they feel you're being critical over...

I'm not 'having a go' at you - but why do you feel so adamantly that you are right and the whole body of professional opinion disagreeing with you is wrong? And why, if you locate a professional who will take money from you and confirm what you think for you, do you believe that his or her assessment is more valid than the weioght of that whole body of professional opinion disagreeing with you? And if the private consultant also disagrees with you (not very likely, IMO, because my guess would be it will be someone recommended to you who has proved 'open-minded' in this regard) what then?

Don't get me wrong: I'm not saying you are 'wrong' - I couldn't possibly know... but it doesn't sound at this end of the ether as though you've given very much thought to the possibility that you might be, or to the possible validity of the opinions of those professionals consulted so far...

 

L&P

 

BD :D

Edited by baddad

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Sally you need to look at secondary specialist schools, so you can compare the different support packages, secondary school is a whole different ball game, have they offered any secondary mainstream school transition support yet, any RC similairities in the secondary school, I would defo look at both private/non maintained specialist schools and Secondary mainstream school and make relivant lists that your son needs.

 

How many are in the RC unit, what support does he recieve for Dyslexia?

 

Baddad I did not pay any proffessional to say what I wanted it to say, Children in Need paid for a three day assessment at a childrens developmental centre and he had two private reports done from our SOLISITOR because LEA wanted J in a mainstream secondary school because it was cheaper not because J had needs, he could not read or write, socialise and interact and he was dx with additional mental health disorder because he became so distressed and distrubed been in a mainstream primary school who did every thing they could to help him, LEA where not interested and we had to get private reports because thier reports where incorrect and lies.

 

There is nothing wrong with a private DX he also has a NHS ASD DX now too.

 

JsMumxxx

 

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up untill a year ago I would have said that all children on the spectrum should either be at asd specific schools or be home educated. however since finding a mainsteam school that is so fantastic and is an example that includion can work I have changed my mind. Although I must add ds is still only a year 1 and I am all set to home educate at year 7 as I do not think he will cope with senior school and there is no provision that will meet his needs in the area at that age!

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if you locate a professional who will take money from you and confirm what you think for you, do you believe that his or her assessment is more valid than the weioght of that whole body of professional opinion disagreeing with you? And if the private consultant also disagrees with you (not very likely, IMO, because my guess would be it will be someone recommended to you who has proved 'open-minded' in this regard) what then? sorry baddad I have intirprited that you are asuming parents can only get opinions that parents want is if they pay for it!

 

JsMumxxx

 

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if you locate a professional who will take money from you and confirm what you think for you, do you believe that his or her assessment is more valid than the weioght of that whole body of professional opinion disagreeing with you? And if the private consultant also disagrees with you (not very likely, IMO, because my guess would be it will be someone recommended to you who has proved 'open-minded' in this regard) what then? sorry baddad I have intirprited that you are asuming parents can only get opinions that parents want is if they pay for it!

 

JsMumxxx

 

No - not at all... the point I was making was that if many professionals do disagree with a parent and then they consult and pay a 'recommended' private one it seems reasonable to ask 'why?'

In an earlier thread someone took that to mean I was suggesting that the 'pay for a positive' professionals were out and out liars - which is not what I meant at all... I cited the Beatles 'Dr Robert', 'assisted communication', 'cure offering quacks' and various examples of quite genuinely 'convinced' professionals, highlighting that just because someone has letters after their name it does not mean they are 'right'. Strangely, this is something that most people seem perfectly happy to accept about any number of professionals who disagree with them but not something they're even prepared to recognise as a possibility among those who do agree with them...

As far as AS goes I do think that it has now reached a point where it is being massively overdiagnosed in the same way that ADHD and Dyslexia were/are. I don't have any 'evidence' to back that up (apart from some very casually gleaned American statistics on people who were diagnosed but are now having those diagnoses overturned), and i certainly wouldn't question the diagnosis of anyone - especially someone I've never met - but just on an observational level I've met many people (children and adults) diagnosed in the past three to five years in whom I can't see any real signs of the 'triad' at all and who (often by their own admission) have the diagnosis as a back up 'just in case' rather than as a defined day to day disability. I wasn't in any way suggesting that Sally44's son's diagnosis was wrong (or your own son's for that matter) - just highlighting that her pursuit of a professional who agreed with her regarding her son's needs completely overlooked the professional opinions of many who disagreed with her; and that a value judgement about the validity of those professional opinionms based on 'what you want to hear' is inherently flawed, however reassuring it might be.

 

Hope that's clearer

 

L&P

 

BD :D

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There is always the possibility, of course, that professionals may get it wrong. They may not have the experience, expertise, knowledge, training, time..... to find out what is really going on with a child. And that can even be despite their title or job position.

 

In my experience, this is very much what happens within my LA and in my area in general. For example, The SP&Lang therapists (and we have encountered several) are not trained in ASD and, not knowing what to do, prefer to discharge without adequate explanation, eg his problems fall within his diagnosis of autism. However, now DS2 is at an autism -specific school his difficulties are recognised and addressed - and he is flourishing.

 

The CAMHS therapist didn't know what to do with DS2 when he lay on the sofa in her room and hid under the blanket for three sessions, so discharged him. Feeling this was inadequate, we requested onward referral to a service that explained to us that our son's behaviour reflected huge anxiety and stress that definitely could be addressed.

 

DS1's EP at his primary school spoke to him for 15 minutes and asked him to rate all his concerns out of 10; because he is unable to express his feelings and concerns he gave everything top marks so the EP said he was fine. Next thing we knew, he was on the verge of breakdown and on medication. Still everything was 'fine', because the anti-depressants would sort everything out - not so. Eventually, and after lengthy battle to get her on board, the LA's specialist EP (a very rare commodity indeed, and only available for the whole of the county for 1.5 days a week) found that he does have significant, if very subtle, difficulties, and that he needed a Statement.

 

After three years of fortnightly sessions with a psychologist, again at CAMHS, and ending up on medication, we again requested onward referral for DS1 to the same service as the one DS2 was attending, and he is now receiving individualised and extremely beneficial Cognitive Behavioural Therapy.

 

I have numerous other examples of inadequate professionals not doing their jobs properly, but it's very important to note that when we finally got to see a real professional WE DID NOT HAVE TO PAY FOR ANYTHING. We just needed to see someone who was doing what they were supposed to. And very often these professionals have been horrified at the so-called services we have been receiving.

 

The word that strikes me about our local services is AMATEUR. Just because someone has a job title doesn't mean they are good at what they do. What has astounded me is how far-reaching this amateur set-up stretches, through education and medical services.

 

Yes we have had to pay for independent reports for Tribunals, and I resent that, but if you are stuck in an area full of amateurs sometimes it is the only way to find out what is really going on. I have also had an independent EP disagree with me and have accepted her opinion.

 

Sally44, there is no harm in getting in a second opinion.

 

All the best, Lizzie x

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Sally - with the best will in the world you're not asking her to do her job - you're asking her to do what you think her job is, which is a completely different thing. the fact that she hasn't reached the same conclusions you have doesn't mean she's not doing her job.

That seems to be the same story with school, too: you have your idea of what they should be doing/what you want from them, and the fact that they are not doing what you want is the bone of contention that they feel you're being critical over...

I'm not 'having a go' at you - but why do you feel so adamantly that you are right and the whole body of professional opinion disagreeing with you is wrong? And why, if you locate a professional who will take money from you and confirm what you think for you, do you believe that his or her assessment is more valid than the weioght of that whole body of professional opinion disagreeing with you? And if the private consultant also disagrees with you (not very likely, IMO, because my guess would be it will be someone recommended to you who has proved 'open-minded' in this regard) what then?

Don't get me wrong: I'm not saying you are 'wrong' - I couldn't possibly know... but it doesn't sound at this end of the ether as though you've given very much thought to the possibility that you might be, or to the possible validity of the opinions of those professionals consulted so far...

 

L&P

 

BD :D

 

 

 

But don't I have a point when I have EP and IEP records detail his progress in reception and year one, but from that point they introduced phonics and he began to lose the 'whole word recognition' he had previously. I know that it is not acceptable for a child to continue to lose skills over time and that is what happened previously and that is why we got the statement and placement. And now his target is to learn 16 HFW (which means he knows less than that). So at age 5 he recognised more HFW than he has as a target at age 9. That does not make sense. I have another EP letter which categorically states that he will not learn to read or write with phonics. Yet all the LEA EP is to say that phonics is recognised by the government as the way to teach phonics. But when our children learn differently aren't we supposed to find out what those ways are and use them?

 

A child is supposed to make academic progress in line with their cognitive ability, and my son is not. If he continues at this rate he will be on around 1C, or 1B for most subjects by the time he goes to secondary school.

 

BD you said yourself that you recognised when your son was not achieving to his ability and you and school worked together. I am also recognising that my son is not working to his ability and school are saying they are happy. But if this is true he would need to have a moderate to severe learning difficulty which he does not have.

 

He isn't getting access to a teacher with specific expertise in dyslexia or dysgraphia and no-one is suggesting we do anything differently, or do anything more than what is currently happening.

 

I feel I would be letting him down terribly if I just accepted that.

 

And it is only the school and LEA EP who are saying everything is okay. The NAS and IPSEA and ACE are saying that it isn't okay. It is ACE that is saying not to pay for an EP now, but to use that money later on at tribunal stage because they agree with me that the LEA is not going to amend his statement and that I will need to ask for a reassessment for the Statement.

 

The reason I put this post was to find out what 'broke the camels back' in that it was the final thing that caused the LEA to concede and agree to an independent or private ASD specific placement.

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The reason I put this post was to find out what 'broke the camels back' in that it was the final thing that caused the LEA to concede and agree to an independent or private ASD specific placement.

 

Hi again Sally,

 

In answer to your question, my son was given a placement at a residential special school when he was 15. I argued for this on the grounds that he was unable to access the national curriculum as he had been out of school for 6 months because of severe mental health problems. He wasn't a school refuser (in fact it was a struggle to get him to understand it was OK to stop going because he was very unwell), and he was withdrawn perfectly legally as we acted on the medical advice of 2 consultants and his GP, all who provided formal letters for the LA.

 

Education-wise, the LA EP described him as 'no longer functioning as a learner' :( I should also add that when his old mainstream school received his final Statement, they said there was no way they could meet the provision in part 3.

 

Don't know if that helps at all?

 

Bid :)

Edited by bid

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The reason I put this post was to find out what 'broke the camels back' in that it was the final thing that caused the LEA to concede and agree to an independent or private ASD specific placement.

 

For us I think it was the mainstream school saying they could no longer meet his needs and that he was no longer receiving an 'adequate' education, as described by law. Plus the EP saying, albeit in a very woolly way in her report, that mainstream was no longer suitable. I think the disengagement had reached a level that no one could ignore.

 

... although that doesn't mean it was necessarily easy!

 

Lizzie x

Edited by BusyLizzie100

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The reason I put this post was to find out what 'broke the camels back' in that it was the final thing that caused the LEA to concede and agree to an independent or private ASD specific placement.

 

 

Hi again sally - if you look at the top of this thread I did offer feedback on this (but I didn't realise you meant what got the LEA to agree, so offered feedback on what prompted my decision to seek specialised provision, iyswim).

 

My second post was prompted by what you wrote about the ed. psych, and I still say the point I made is perfectly valid: you said you 'wanted her to do her job properly' but your definition of 'her doing her job properly' appears to be her agreeing with your assessment of your son's needs. I think that's wrong - I used an analogy a few weeks ago in a similar thread of a surgeon performing open heart surgery on a child based purely on a parent's view that the child's heartburn indicated coronary heart disease...

 

I did go out of my way to make the point that I wasn't making any sort of judgement about your son specifically:

 

Don't get me wrong: I'm not saying you are 'wrong' - I couldn't possibly know... but it doesn't sound at this end of the ether as though you've given very much thought to the possibility that you might be, or to the possible validity of the opinions of those professionals consulted so far...

 

only highlighting what I think is a fundamental 'shift' in the dynamic between parent and specialist that has very negative and dangerous implications. And I do emphatically believe (based on personal observations that have nothing whatsoever to do with any member of this forum, including yourself and your son, obviously, for the reasons stated above) that if somebody sets out to seek confirmation of a personal conviction and are willing to pay for it they will find it... that doesn't just apply to autism it applies to pretty much everything (Wanna contact your dead granny? Find inner peace and spiritual enlightenment? Buy a stairway to heaven?) - and it doesn't necessarily mean that the person providing the confirmation is a charlatan, quack or cheat...

 

Hope that makes sense, that you can see now I'm not making any specific judgement about your son or your assessment of your son's needs, and that - in the context of the definitions you offered my observations are perfectly valid.

 

L&P

 

BD :D

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I am also recognising that my son is not working to his ability and school are saying they are happy. But if this is true he would need to have a moderate to severe learning difficulty which he does not have.

 

I think this is where the battles lays sometimes when the school want to give the impression there happy, and progressing, the school I removed my son from did this too, even though they agreed he needed 1-1 and a statement they instisted he had progressed, basically he knew one more word than previous year, and they removed all his support from him insisting they didnt have any funding available, my son didnt return to that school because I knew I didnt trust the school even if they did give him a statement, when we went to visit the feeder secondary school many are starting the secondary unable to read and spell, this really upsets the secondary senco,

 

I think a secondary school may well be more upset with the knowledge that a child with a average/high IQ is reading at the same level as a moderate/severe learnind difficulties, so in some way the high school may well not be happy with his attainment levels, its getting a more and more common now that children are coming from primary school and starting secondary without the required level and in other secondary schools a child has had fantastic support at primary school for it not to be strong at the secondary at a fundemental stage of thier transition.

 

1B and 1C would make it impossible for your son to paricipate in the curriculum at secondary school and we havent even got to social and communication needs yet.

 

Have you visited any secondary schools yet, what support would a secondary school give them.

 

In the secondary school that turned J down have a learning recourse centre but J was only going to access this for English and maths so what about the rest of his subjects were he needs to write, spell, read, understand, basically the resource unit was only for limited times, or unless his behaviour detertiated, of which it does when he isnt understanding the workload, due to inability to read, and write, listen, pay attention.

 

So basically he would of accessed the resource unit for a couple hours a day or unless he was disruptive in class.

 

When we were turned down from that secondary school a second school was alocated and the Headteacher was not disclosed all of Js dx and needs so he was totally unprepaired to meet his needs, once we had a conversation of Js needs and his attainment levels and just how anxious J was, the Headteacher had to inform the LEA he couldnt meet Js needs now he had the full facts, Js levels where described as level 3 but when he got to specialist school these where different to a grade below, and some subjects a grade above.

 

So I would go and look at some secondary high schools and see there reaction when they realise just what complex needs your child has and what specialist support he is going to require and what type of enviromental factors are going to have to be taken into account.

 

JsMumxxx

 

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There is always the possibility, of course, that professionals may get it wrong. They may not have the experience, expertise, knowledge, training, time..... to find out what is really going on with a child. And that can even be despite their title or job position.

 

Just thought I'd repeat this bit from my previous post. Sometimes blind faith in the professionals just doesn't work.

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Just thought I'd repeat this bit from my previous post. Sometimes blind faith in the professionals just doesn't work.

 

Busy Lizzie - I totally agree... but if it comes to a toss up between professional opinion and 'Mother's Intuition' I'll go for professional opinion almost every time, and i'll certainly go for Professional opinion over 'Dinner lady who knows a boy who...' or 'Teaching assistant who worked in a class with...' or any other variation on those untrained, often uneducated (outside of the media or media informed stereotypes), and even 'distance' diagnosis (I know someone who was very recently diagnosed over the internet based on posts they had made on an online forum, would you believe! :whistle: )

Which again is not to say that those people mentioned will always be wrong or that the professionals will always be right, but would you let a dinner lady or another parent or someone over the internet diagnose and treat you for Cancer? :blink:

 

L&P

 

BD :D

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even 'distance' diagnosis (I know someone who was very recently diagnosed over the internet based on posts they had made on an online forum, would you believe!

 

I wasnt aware that you can have an online assessment plus online diagnosis, from a proffessional body, also many may of come here first seeking out further information before going ahead for an assessment, it doesnt mean that they have got all there facts from here first and then reliterated it to the proffessional, many will have come to this very forum before recieving a dx, and if later on they do get a dx it doesnt mean its because of what they read here, it will be an assessment first.

 

JsMumxxx

 

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Have I missed something, is Sally taking education advice from a dinner lady/TA??

 

Didn't think so...

 

Bid :rolleyes:

 

BD :rolleyes:

Edited by baddad

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even 'distance' diagnosis (I know someone who was very recently diagnosed over the internet based on posts they had made on an online forum, would you believe!

 

I wasnt aware that you can have an online assessment plus online diagnosis, from a proffessional body

JsMumxxx

 

I don't think you can. It was a joke. The person distance diagnosed was me, by someone I've never met who had read a very small percentage of my posts.

That said, a published author (I think she had some sort of psychology degree and had 'post diagnosed' an ex-boyfriend on the strength of it?) did the same thing a year or two ago and then very kindly explained to me (and several of our members who do have a diagnosis) that this was why I couldn't look objectively at the post she had made... :lol::lol:

 

I'm not quite sure what point you were making with the rest of your post (and i don't mean that in a 'funny' way, I just genuinely couldn't get the drift of it ?), but if you meant people deliberately falsifying 'symptoms' to gain a diagnosis i think that's probably rare too. Having said that, though, I think people who for whatever reason feel 'at odds' with the world and find autism as a possible answer/explanation may well project aspects of their personality onto an autistic 'model' (in the same way that people might find explanations through religion or occultism or codd psychology self help books or any number of other things), and would then be perfectly capable of self-reinforcement (consciously or subconsciously) of that model. That's not unusual by any means - it's human psychology that if you identify with a 'group' you adapt to that group and assimilate to the culture of that group... And I additionally think, as i've said many times, that with autism being a continuum pretty much anyone who wanted to could identify themselves (or their partner/friends/children) within an autistic model, especially in the current climate where geek chic is considered something of a bonus.

 

Hope that clears the 'distance daigniosis' thing up - and if I did misunderstand the rest of your post apologies in advance

 

L&P

 

BD :D

Edited by baddad

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I am sorry, but I don't understand how ' distant dx' has anything to do with Sally's OP? In my opinion, Sally made her point quiet clearly. The way I see it is:

1. The fact is that results show that her son is not making any progress with reading. In contrary, he IS regressing, therefore he needs help.

2. His school say cannot do more for her son. However, her son needs more help and, perhaps, a different aproach in teaching him that his school is not willing/cannot provide.

3. In order to change this situation, Sally wants her son to go to a special school with a hope that they can help her son more.

4. How can she move her son from mainstream to special school?

 

I am sorry I cannot help you, Sally, because I don't have any experience in this but I hope that you will find the best solution for your son soon. >:D<<'>

 

Danaxxx

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I am sorry, but I don't understand how ' distant dx' has anything to do with Sally's OP? In my opinion, Sally made her point quiet clearly. The way I see it is:

1. The fact is that results show that her son is not making any progress with reading. In contrary, he IS regressing, therefore he needs help.

2. His school say cannot do more for her son. However, her son needs more help and, perhaps, a different aproach in teaching him that his school is not willing/cannot provide.

3. In order to change this situation, Sally wants her son to go to a special school with a hope that they can help her son more.

4. How can she move her son from mainstream to special school?

 

I am sorry I cannot help you, Sally, because I don't have any experience in this but I hope that you will find the best solution for your son soon. >:D<<'>

 

Danaxxx

 

 

It doesn't...

My response to the original post is here

 

http://www.asd-forum.org.uk/forum/index.ph...st&p=278958

 

The post about 'distance dxing' was a light-hearted response to Busy Lizzies post here:

 

http://www.asd-forum.org.uk/forum/index.ph...st&p=279201

 

the point I intended making being that while I agreed that blind faith in professionals was ill advised there were actually sources of advice that regularly get accepted by parents that are far less reliable...

I explained that here:

 

http://www.asd-forum.org.uk/forum/index.ph...&p=279226...

 

However, the first part of that - about parent's intuition - was more directly related to the OP's second post and my reply to it:

 

http://www.asd-forum.org.uk/forum/index.ph...st&p=279068

 

Which while not necessarilly what the OP wanted to hear was, I felt, a valid and considerately made observation based on the info given, as i explained at the end of my post here:

 

http://www.asd-forum.org.uk/forum/index.ph...st&p=279134

 

... if you followed all of that (and believe me, I don't blame you if you gave up half way!) you'll see that my obviously not as obviously light hearted as I thought observatiions about all manner of unprofessional diagnoses being less credible than those of a professional diagnosis (even one that doesn't confirm what we want to hear) made in response to Busy Lizzies post about 'blind faith in professionals' makes some sense. hopefully. But if it doesn't don't worry about it! :lol:

In a nutshell, the replies that are relevant to the OP 's posts are post 6 and post 8. Everything else was cross fertilisation on posts made by other people and general observations on the nature of alternative types of dx that often seem more palettable to parents than professional dx's that don't say what they want them to say.

 

HTMS :unsure:

 

L&P

 

BD :D

 

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Busy Lizzie - I totally agree... but if it comes to a toss up between professional opinion and 'Mother's Intuition' I'll go for professional opinion almost every time

 

That's fine, I respect your point of view. I have a different point of view based on my own experiences, which may well be very different to yours. It's entirely possible that other people also have had experiences different to yours, and may consequently take a point of view that differs to yours. I am happy to respect those, too.

 

Lizzie x

 

PS Thank you for the clarification that your comment is lighthearted.

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That's fine, I respect your point of view. I have a different point of view based on my own experiences, which may well be very different to yours. It's entirely possible that other people also have had experiences different to yours, and may consequently take a point of view that differs to yours. I am happy to respect those, too.

 

Lizzie x

 

PS Thank you for the clarification that your comment is lighthearted.

 

 

... And I respect your point of view too (though would point out that there are all sorts of things that might influence a parent's view of their own child, their own parenting and their own experiences that are intrinsically unlikely to be purely objective. That's not to say that a professionals view will be purely objective, of course, but (I think?) medical protocol's do guard against them dxing their own families etc on that very basis), but hope that 'respect' is never to be confused with 'unconditionally accept' or 'unilaterally endorse' in either direction - because that removes any potential for growth.

 

L&P

 

BD :D

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J S Mum "1B and 1C would make it impossible for your son to paricipate in the curriculum at secondary school and we havent even got to social and communication needs yet."

 

That is exactly what the mainstream secondary school said to me when I asked them. But his current enhanced resource primary school said that that is not true, as secondary schools frequently have to differentiate from the P levels upwards!?!? So that just confused me.

 

There is only one enhanced resource secondary school, and I haven't spoken to them first.

 

BD: I don't agree that professionals just put what the parents want. Both private professionals (EP and SALT) I used said that at this stage my son did not need a specialist environment, which was not what I wanted! But that was with the provision that he was fully supported and that he made progress. And that is what is not happening.

 

What worries me is that his very poor performance is being accepted as to be expected with his diagnosis. But I know that many of your children are doing much better academically, so very poor academic performance is not to be accepted without question, especially if the child's cognitive ability is in line with their peers or higher.

 

And it seems from many of your responses that the main issue that pre-empted a move to ASD specific was that the child could no longer cope. I hope it doesn't come to that with my son. However, there is also the possibility that he will not deteriorate in that area and will not become severely depressed or disengage more than he presently does.

 

 

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BD: I don't agree that professionals just put what the parents want.

 

That is not what I've said - but I've tried several ways to say what I did intend to say and those who disagree with what I am saying have missed the point every time. If you're interested in what I did say, it's in the above thread at some length. If you'd rather just ignore it, that's completely fine and dandy too.

 

L&P

 

BD :D

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