Is there a 'culture of blame' on the forum?

[pearl]

It is great to see some of the 'oldies' back. He, he he!

 

You can go off people, you know ...

 

As far as 'warrior mums' are concerned - proud to be one. When JP was just 4, my dad said to me, fight for him, because no-one else will.

 

Well he was wrong - I fought alongside the school, GP, TA etc. to get the provision he needed. We fought together. I was lucky in that most 'agencies' were in agreement about his needs, & that this chimed with my own input as the person who knew him best.

 

But I honestly don't think he'd have done as well as he has if I hadn't driven it, & occasionally kicked up a huge fuss when things weren't right. I once overhead some jobsworth calling me a 'forceful mother' - I had to be, in that particular circumstance, as that was one instance of a paid professional not doing his job properly. The agencies have every child to consider - I just had mine, that was my job, and I don't regret a single second of it.

 

Your child gets one chance at an education suitable for their needs. Its important to co-operate, give thanks when its due, & pick your battles carefully, but you can't be too concerned about what other people think about you all the time. Sometimes you have to kick some ass.

[Karen A]

Hi Karen -

 

I think we are looking at different forums, or looking at the same one through different eyes... so lets 'agree to differ'...

Warrior dads: I think you've hit the nail on the head with your stereotype model of males: largely seemingly endorsed on the forum - or diagnosed autistic! - but I don't agree that it is an 'equivelent' stereotype, because (whether his absence is due to him being down the pub or not) he is simply not in evidence here other than in second hand accounts from people who have an inherent bias, whereas I could find many many examples of 'first hand' warrior mums if it wasn't moderated for 'being judgemental' or 'personal'... The big problem, yer see, is that someone who is being unreasonable rarely sees that they are being unreasonable*... and that someone who is agreeing and endorsing or 'normalising' unreasonable behaviour will rarely see their actions for what they are either. Do you think peodophile rings, football hooligans, drug dealers etc etc sit around making negative judgements about each other? No - they collude [and no - I am not equating 'warrior mums' with paedophiles/football hooligans etc: I am just using examples that come to mind of groups who justify negative behaviours through group identity and a process of reinforcement and normalisation]

A fer fer fer flawed system: No, I don't read newspapers, but why on earth do you think I don't acknowledge that the system is flawed? I think part of that comes right down to parents - not just parents of disabled children but to all parents who will not consider any wider view outside of the school experience of their own child/children. And before anyone jumps over that I think there are hundreds of other reasons too, but two wrongs don't make a right and neither do 'hundreds + 1'...

I do not need to read a newspaper, look at a forum or do any of those things to know that there is a huge amoint of ineffective parenting going on: I can walk around any sink estate on any day/night of the week and see the results of it. If i had the stomach for it i could watch Jeremy Kyle and Trisha in the mornings, just to double check.

Do I believe that parents of autistic children are exempt from making those same parenting mistakes - no.

Do I believe that autism (or any other disability/preceived disability) can provide some parents with a bl00dy useful 'get out of jail free card' regarding their own mistakes/failings? Yes.

Do I believe that many autistic children now are being raised with that 'get out of jail free' ideology implanted and reinforced from an early age? Yes.

Do I think it dangerous for others to reinforce and normalise those behaviours? Yes.

Do I see evidence of that on this forum? Yes

Do I think that saying any of the above will be popular?

 

L&P

 

BD

 

Oh: PS. Anyone interpreting any personal/individual attack from any of the above needs to look again. If they still feel the same way, then they need to ask themselves 'Why am I feeling so defensive' rather than 'Why is that horrible man picking on me an my baby?'

 

Oh.. .One more why... why do I bother? Because I genuinely believe that what I offer as advice can benefit children and parents. Not in a 'saviour' way or in a way like 'my advice is better than yours' (but it probably is that's a joke, BTW) but just in a practical way.

 

Right - I'll nip off and buy a new dustbin to put all the veg that'll be flying my way in (keep this up I can open a greengrocers!).

 

L&P

 

BD

 

Oh I put an asterisk * in the above for anyone looking for a quick 'gainsaying soundbite'... feel free to lob it back at me along with the veg and stuff.

Oh again ; just seen your last post with a link to the NAS... No that's not being a 'warrior mum' that's all sound advice of exactly the kind I offer (clever ol' me...) Warrior mum's might do all of the same things sometimes - they're not necessarily feckless mum's - but what they won't do is look at all of that evidence in context: they'll just cherry pick it for the bits that are most useful for projecting all responsibility off of themselves and their child and onto somebody (anybody! - including your stereotype absent dad down the pub) else...

 

I thought I would be clear as I can be as clear as I like now.

We finish with CAMHS in March and having been with them for three years in intensive therapy I have nothing absolutely nothing to hide.

I believe that all parents including those of children with ASD make numerous mistakes.

I believe that all parents can fail their children including those who have children with ASD.

Actually stastically the fact that children with ASD are challenging to parent makes failure more likely.

I failed my children in the past.I failed them so badly that my husband nearly left taking them with him.

I failed so badly that CAMHS thought one of my children had attachment disorder which is almost unheard of except amongst children who are in care.

So I am all too well of my failings and I have no need of a get out of jail free card.

 

I am now a very good parent coping very well with life and happily married.

One of my sons is at the top of his year in all subjects.He is the most caring considerate well rounded social lad you could care to meet.

I have been extremely fortunate to have some support from an excellent professional who does not label,marginalise and stigmatise people and who works with some of the people you would describe as normalised people who are severely disturbed and for some of whom real difficult questions are asked about their ability to parent at all.

I am proud to have worked with that professional.He has treated us with respect,dignity,care and concern whilst never avoiding challenging me very clearly when it was needed.

 

I was going to say yesterday and think it worth saying because it is more on topic than most of what I have posted today.

I live on one of those sink estates.

Ben was moved from his previous form to his current form after christmas having only started secondary school in September.

He is in a mainstream comprehensive in inner London.

The year head suggested moving Ben because in her words to Ben. ''I cannot put your emotional wellbeing at risk''.

The move was the year heads decision and came as a complete surprise to us.

Ben was moved because so many pupils in his previous form were at risk of exclusion.

Some of them have already been intenally exculded several times and had short term exclusions.

Are they badly parented....probably.

Is that their fault no.

Am I happy that my son with ASD had to move forms,teachers.timetables and TAs only a few weeks after starting secondary school no

But if the parents came on the Forum asking for advice on exculsion I would have given them exactly the same advice that caused such an issue in my original post several days ago...even whilst choking.

http://www.asd-forum.org.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=23364

post #3.

 

Fortunately parents and pupils in this country have some rights with SEN legislation and other educational legislation.

Those rights are universal.

 

As I said to many friends over christmas I cannot on the one hand preach about the legality of exclusion telling parents to ensure all of the rights are adhered to and on the other expect my own LA to illegally exclude a pupil in my son's school however uncomfortable that might be.

Edited January 26, 2010 by Karen A

[Karen A]

You can go off people, you know ...

 

As far as 'warrior mums' are concerned - proud to be one. When JP was just 4, my dad said to me, fight for him, because no-one else will.

 

Well he was wrong - I fought alongside the school, GP, TA etc. to get the provision he needed. We fought together. I was lucky in that most 'agencies' were in agreement about his needs, & that this chimed with my own input as the person who knew him best.

 

But I honestly don't think he'd have done as well as he has if I hadn't driven it, & occasionally kicked up a huge fuss when things weren't right. I once overhead some jobsworth calling me a 'forceful mother' - I had to be, in that particular circumstance, as that was one instance of a paid professional not doing his job properly. The agencies have every child to consider - I just had mine, that was my job, and I don't regret a single second of it.

 

Your child gets one chance at an education suitable for their needs. Its important to co-operate, give thanks when its due, & pick your battles carefully, but you can't be too concerned about what other people think about you all the time. Sometimes you have to kick some ass.

 

I will borrow you next time I need a warrior mum to kick ass.

Despite all of my gassing here I am not actually very good at it......

 

[lisac]

Well put Pearl . Maybe it is that, those with children with less complex or severe needs just dont understand , x

[pearl]

I will borrow you next time I need a warrior mum to kick ass.

Despite all of my gassing here I am not actually very good at it......

 

So long as you pay me in jaffa cakes

 

[baddad]

Well put Pearl . Maybe it is that, those with children with less complex or severe needs just dont understand , x

 

No. That's gainsaying. Assuming a difference that you have no evidence of.

And again - I am in no way suggesting that schools/LEA's etc etc etc etc are always right and parents should let them get on with it. I have fought, many, many battles to get my son where he is today - both in my home and with the various outside agencies involved. I've not only done it for my son, I've done it for my Nephew and many others at all ends of the 'spectrum'.

But I've done that with an open mind, and wherever possible through cooperation with the very same agencies I've sometimes battled with and with an open mind to possibilities i might have overlooked or not wanted to consider.

 

KarenA - with the best will in the world I'm not going to responde in any length to you post. given the amount of emotional/emotive comment you've put in there's no way I could begin to reply without someone making 'victim/bully' assumptions and trying to rip me yet another new botty hole - and i've far more of them than I need already!

I will just say there are some inherent flaws in the 'logic' you've proposed if you want to look for them (and i'm making no sort of judgement if that is not your choice), and leave it at that.

 

L&P

 

BD

Edited January 26, 2010 by baddad

[lisac]

'But I've done that with an open mind, and wherever possible through cooperation with the very same agencies I've sometimes battled with and with an open mind to possibilities i might have overlooked or not wanted to consider'.

 

This is how I operate , absolutely . How do you know others on this forum dont do the same ?

 

[Karen A]

No. That's gainsaying. Assuming a difference that you have no evidence of.

And again - I am in no way suggesting that schools/LEA's etc etc etc etc are always right and parents should let them get on with it. I have fought, many, many battles to get my son where he is today - both in my home and with the various outside agencies involved. I've not only done it for my son, I've done it for my Nephew and many others at all ends of the 'spectrum'.

But I've done that with an open mind, and wherever possible through cooperation with the very same agencies I've sometimes battled with and with an open mind to possibilities i might have overlooked or not wanted to consider.

 

KarenA - with the best will in the world I'm not going to responde in any length to you post. given the amount of emotional/emotive comment you've put in there's no way I could begin to reply without someone making 'victim/bully' assumptions and trying to rip me yet another new botty hole - and i've far more of them than I need already!

I will just say there are some inherent flaws in the 'logic' you've proposed if you want to look for them (and i'm making no sort of judgement if that is not your choice), and leave it at that.

 

L&P

 

BD

 

No.I feel no need to respond at all to be honest.

 

People on the Forum can draw their own conclusions as I have spent hours and hours in the last couple of years posting responses on education which I hope are balanced and supportive.

 

As I said I have nothing to be ashamed of or defend myself for.

I would just add that the original post which caused you to get most of your bum holes was on the 22nd January.

It was not until the 26th January that I responded to what has now been demonstrated to be an unjustified and judgemental attack on information that was largely based on well recognised external links.

That is four days during which time I have watched while you have dug ever deeper holes , ploughed across three different threads and criticized mods,established forum members of years standing and new members who all deserve better.

That is four days I waited....hardly an over emotional or emotive response.

Edited January 26, 2010 by Karen A

[Kathryn]

Please - before it gets any more personal, maybe it's time for us all to take a deep breath and calm down and move on?

 

I speak for myself as well as I've been just as involved as anyone else in the heated discussions here.

 

K x

[baddad]

No.I feel no need to respond at all to be honest.

 

People on the Forum can draw their own conclusions as I have spent hours and hours in the last couple of years posting responses on education which I hope are balanced and supportive.

 

As I said I have nothing to be ashamed of or defend myself for.

I would just add that the original post which caused you to get most of your bum holes was on the 22nd January.

It was not until the 26th January that I responded to what has now been demonstrated to be an unjustified and judgemental attack on information that was largely based on well recognised external links.

That is four days during which time I have watched while you have dug ever deeper holes , ploughed across three different threads and criticized mods,established forum members of years standing and new members who all deserve better.

That is four days I waited....hardly an over emotional or emotive response.

 

I saw flawed 'Logic' I did not say flawed parenting (I couldn't possibly know). And I never suggested for a moment that you needed to defend/justify yourself. In the middle of stirring my dinner i realised the 'error' and rushed back to fix it buit too late... How has it been demonstrated to be an unjustified and judgmental attack? What attack? I have NOT ploughed across three different threads. I answered one thread, somebody started a second thread to draw attention to it and another member ported another thread into it! There is someone being 'attacked' here - but no worries - I'm used to it!

 

Do you not see what a post and then a separate thread asking people to comment on a specific member's post adds up to? And have you ever thought about looking for a pattern in that?

 

L&P

 

B

Lisa C -

How do you know others on this forum dont do the same ?

 

erm... I read their posts.

 

 

[baddad]

Please - before it gets any more personal, maybe it's time for us all to take a deep breath and calm down and move on?

 

I speak for myself as well as I've been just as involved as anyone else in the heated discussions here.

 

K x

 

kathryn, i'd love to... but every time i look again some one's quoted me again!

[Suze]

I,m sorry but I really feel this thread has served no purpose at all..... other than to get people disagreeing , arguing and trying to get one up on each other,the two sides of this argument (if there are two sides??)........are never gona agree with each other.I believe valid points have been made but lost in amongst emotions and some posters just are,nt prepared to see the others point of view.....agree to disagree and close the thread.

[bid]

You know what? I give up!!

 

I started this thread because I believe in the importance of everyone being able to discuss significant issues.

 

Thank you to everyone who has contributed in the same spirit. Thank you for taking the time to share your views with care and consideration for others opinions.

 

Bid

 

 

[Tally]

Everyone's had the opportunity to have their say now. I think it's time to call it a day.