going into school for meeting today

[tjw]

hi

went into school yesterday to be told of a ta that my son george age 7 was made to stand in a shelter on the playground for the break period by his so called best buddy age 6 he told george he couldnt play with other children and if he did he would get him done these are the words he used and he would use them because george hates the thought of getting into trouble, when i spoke with his teacher she new about this as 2 dinner ladys had reported it, but i dont think she would have told me its just because i told her george had said something (which he hadent but i didnt want to drop the ta in it) she looks out for george, i spoke with george when we came out of school and asked him to tell what has been going on he just started screaming at me no one lisens he wont leave me alone he wont let me play with other kids and hes realy naughtie i dont want to play with him i keep telling them when i asked who he is telling he just keeps repeating them, then one of georges classmates told his mum that this child tryed to strangle george yesterday dinner time and he went and told a teacher but no one has spoke to me about this, i dont think he was realy trying to strangle george but has got hold of him with his neck and this other little boy got upset by this and told his mum who spoke to me this morning about it, anyway i have spoken to the best buddys mum this morning and she is mortified we have arranged to go in to school this afternoon to speak with the teacher she has also requested that her son stays in at break times so he cannot control george because this is what this is all about control, and just by saying to george i am going to get you done is ok i will do what you say kind of thing, i am so upset i couldnt sleep last night and have been crying this morning (not in front of george) because i cannot stand the thought of george just stood in the shelter on his own and doing it, i am realy mad because he did it and didnt tell the other boy no, but i can also understand why he stayed they because he hates the thought of being naugthie and getting into trouble, just had to come on here and put it down in words i will just have to wait and see what becomes of this afternoons meeting, i just feel like it is fight fight fight all the way and i seem to be sapped out, still waiting for ep to come in and see george as well so much going on at minute head hurts, thanks for letting me go on about this.

theresa

[JsMum]

Hi Hope the meeting helps identify more support and that they are listening, whats clear is this other boy who is controlling your son and using physical aggression needs support too, it maybe that the other child requires support for social skills too, and his only way of sociallising is controlling others and feeling like he is in charge, I cant understand why no one intervene though, if there is obvous behaviours such as controlling behaviour surely the staff need to intervene more.

 

It maybe that a meeting will flag up this other boys needs too.

 

JsMumxxx

 

[tjw]

hi jsmum

the other boys mum has asked school if they think something could be wrong with her son and they have told her no, but have stated that the child seems to be very clever at picking up what winds each child up in the class and playing on it they have said that he seems to like neg attention all the time, i am a freind of the boys mum so we speak alot and george and the boy have been freinds since reception they are now in yr 2 but last yr they were in seperate classes at my wishes but they could not accomadate that this yr so are both in same class, but last yr he was the same with another boy who is dx with asd but this other boy would hit him and get in trouble the other boy with asd is georges freind also and the other boy only plays with these 2, other children will not play with him, i no his mum is worried sick and it didnt feel great having to speak to her about her son and telling her i thought this was bullying because i dont like to use this words lightly but in my eyes it is getting to that, and she agrees, we both said this morning that her son seems jealous of george he always trys to hold my hand when he see me so george carnt i dont allow this for obvious reasons, but he also shouts at his mum that he wishes he lived with me, i personaly do think that something is wrong with him but that is not up to me, all i can do is protect my son which i hope i do. i will let you no what is said today at the meeting thanks for your reply

theresa

[Karen A]

Hi tjw <'>

I hope the meeting is helpful today.It is good that the other mum is worried and wants school to help resolve the situation too.

 

http://www.ace-ed.org.uk/advice-about-educ...ckling-bullying

ACE produce this excellent information for parents that might be useful.

I think it might be worth making some notes of the incident for your own information.Then you will have a record if further incidents happen in the future.ACE include information regarding what to include.

Karen.

[Suze]

I,m a midday assistant(dinner lady )........if I was aware of stuff like this going on when I was on duty I would be doing my utmost to keep an eye on the kids in question and nipping anything in the bud pronto...there needs to be communication with the dinner ladies aswell as the teachers at your sons school so they are aware of the problems .As an aside to that ,I must say I am constantly, shocked dismayed and saddened by some kids in general , the majority are good and well behaved but these tend to get overlooked.I regularly have to deal with some downright disgraceful , disrespectful behaviour on the playground.The kids don,t listen, ignore you, and laugh at you.I,v been poked, had bark and mud thrown at me and laughed at.The thing is the worst behaved kids are the so called"NT" ones, its amazing how manipulative they can be

 

...good luck with the school suzex.

[tjw]

hi

been to the school and the teacher has sugested that the other boy gos on a good behaviour chart for the next wk to see if this will work, she also admitted that this other boy trys to control george alot, which does not happen in class because she is they, she also held a staff meeting to make all staff and dinner ladys aware of this problem, and said to keep them apart at all times it worked today, the other boy also came and said sorry to george and said he will stop what he is doing and does not want to lose george as a freind, i have told the teacher i want an update daily on any other events that may happen and this has been agreed, so fingers crossed i hope this will help the situation if not then plan b and that is the naughty freind will have to miss breaks but they dont want to do this as he likes neg attention thats why the chart is the choice, thanks for the replys

theresa

[JsMum]

My son who had severe behavioural problems in primary school was also put on a good behaviour chart but without any support for his social skills, or looking behind the reasons for wanting negative attention, I cant see plan A working, thats my opinion, they need to look further into why he does this more in playtimes, rather than a classroom, it could be that he requires more structure at playtime, a circle of friends or a playtime club, I am rather offended that you have labled the friend a naughty friend if were to try and stop children responding in a negative way then he needs to see Adults responding to him in a positive way, I have to say many of the behaviours described my son has done because he was not getting the correct support, assistance and provisions.

 

wanted to add also that when J was in year1 and 2 he also missed a lot of break times, how on earth can a child learn to socialise if there inside in isolation it also prolongs there exclusion and other children begin to aviod them, and they have even less friends, when they finally did let J out he was high as a kite and would again bump, push, someone by been over excited and then be sent inside again because anyother boy said HE PUSHED HIM MISS, So keeping this other boy in a break times is also not an option the school should be considering, when J went to a school that did understand if he were given sanctions it he would miss 5mins of his breaktime, he also had supervision.

 

JsMumxxxx

 

Edited January 28, 2010 by JsMum

[Karen A]

hi

been to the school and the teacher has sugested that the other boy gos on a good behaviour chart for the next wk to see if this will work, she also admitted that this other boy trys to control george alot, which does not happen in class because she is they, she also held a staff meeting to make all staff and dinner ladys aware of this problem, and said to keep them apart at all times it worked today, the other boy also came and said sorry to george and said he will stop what he is doing and does not want to lose george as a freind, i have told the teacher i want an update daily on any other events that may happen and this has been agreed, so fingers crossed i hope this will help the situation if not then plan b and that is the naughty freind will have to miss breaks but they dont want to do this as he likes neg attention thats why the chart is the choice, thanks for the replys

theresa

 

 

That sounds like a very positive result.

Karen.

 

[Kathryn]

That's good - the school seem to be on top of things. Hope the strategies work and that the next few days are better.

 

K x

[Sally44]

I understand you are in the process of getting a diagnosis???

Is your child on School Action Plus??

At SA+ this is when the child should have IEP targets and these can be social ones.

You have identified an area - speech and language, social communication, social interaction etc that he struggles in. The EP and SALT should work together to address these needs by assessing them and making recommendations on how they can be supported, and those targets should be included in his IEP (or MEP = multi educational plan).

However, getting these supports specified and in place is best achieved through a Statement as that is a legally binding document that school must fulfill.

So you need to look at the difficulties and identify what is the root of the problem. Which professional deals with that. Speak to them and ask them to make recommendations.

As part of the assessment towards a Statement all professionals should assess and make a report. But you can at this stage talk to school and other professionals about your concerns.

Your child may need much more structure during dinnertimes and playtimes. He may need access to dinnertime clubs (which have adult supervision), he may benefit from something like circle of friends. He will probably need input from SALT regarding speech: expressive and receptive. A skill my son learnt is how to ask an adult for help, or to tell an adult you are sad. He was taught to do this using picture symbols to begin with, and those symbols were attached to his trousers on a clip. But my son needed to be taught what the symbols meant, and how he should use them. Now he doesn't need the symbols.

As already said all staff should be aware of your childs difficulties and be aware of problems with other children as well.

But, I suspect you need alot more input than he is currently receiving.

So talk to professionals, get him on SA+, and consider whether an assessment towards a Statement is worth doing now, or whether you should wait for the dx.

[tjw]

hi

firstly thankyou for your advise and support, i did feel alot better after the meeting yesterday, the other boys mum came in with me and she agreed that her child was very controling and asked the teachers if they thought he had any thing wrong with him she asked about adhd but the school felt that her son didnt have this but advised her to speak with her dr if concerned, we spoke about putting a circle of friends around george at break times at the moment they are going to do this with the teachers and staff who on duty at break times, when ipick george up yesterday he seemed happier with breaks because they have spoke with both boys yesterday and told them they need to slipt up at breaks and not allowed to play with each other george cannot understand why but i keep speaking to him about the shelter thing and that he does not have to stand in this.

sally thanks for your reply george is already dx with asd and is on the waiting list to see if he has dyspaxia he has been on sa+ for a yr now hoping to see the school ep shortly, i am at the moment starting the statement route but that is another story, what you said about the speech problem, i never even thought that he wasnt telling me or teacher due to not being able to do this, the cards you spoke about seem a realy good idea, he would feel better if he could explain things this way, because his teacher did say he never complains are tells her when he is unhappy, i am going to ask for these for him i will get some myself and give them george once we have gone through what they mean, and see if this helps him, i think because he does not moan at school that he is fine, but when i explained that he meltsdown at home due to presures and cannot sleep til gone 12.30 at night (never been great at sleep) she seemed to understand a little bit more so the cards could be a great form of cummunication.

jsmum so sorry i didnt mean to offend you with the word naugthie that wasnt my intenstion so please accept my appoligies.

once again thank you very much for your replys and advise

theresa x

[JsMum]

jsmum so sorry i didnt mean to offend you with the word naugthie that wasnt my intenstion so please accept my appoligies.

once again thank you very much for your replys and advise

theresa x

 

Hi Its just that I have been on the recieving end of other parents too of a child others think just a naughty boy when infact they have special needs, my sons school at the time disregaurded ADHD at the time too, even though he was on the SEN register for behaviour, social and communicaiton needs, my son was often controlling with his peers as he lacked the correct social skills to interact any other way, my son had to be assessed away from the school enviroement for him to recieve a DX of ADHD, when he was 8yrs old, some schools will misunderstand ADHD symptoms as naughty, or controlling or manipulative, ect.... I would strongly recommend that your friend gets an assessment in ADHD, a school is not qualified in dx ADHD, what if it turns out when your friends son does eventually get dx with ADHD in the future and no one listened to her when he was younger.

 

JsMumxxxx

 

[tjw]

jsmum so sorry i didnt mean to offend you with the word naugthie that wasnt my intenstion so please accept my appoligies.

once again thank you very much for your replys and advise

theresa x

 

Hi Its just that I have been on the recieving end of other parents too of a child others think just a naughty boy when infact they have special needs, my sons school at the time disregaurded ADHD at the time too, even though he was on the SEN register for behaviour, social and communicaiton needs, my son was often controlling with his peers as he lacked the correct social skills to interact any other way, my son had to be assessed away from the school enviroement for him to recieve a DX of ADHD, when he was 8yrs old, some schools will misunderstand ADHD symptoms as naughty, or controlling or manipulative, ect.... I would strongly recommend that your friend gets an assessment in ADHD, a school is not qualified in dx ADHD, what if it turns out when your friends son does eventually get dx with ADHD in the future and no one listened to her when he was younger.

 

JsMumxxxx

hi jsmum

the boys mum has been round this morning for coffee, and she asked me for my honest opinion about her son i did advise her to speak with her dr about this and asked if she felt they was something not quite right about her son ,she is realy confussed because at home he will sit and watch his tv or read paint for hrs without being a giddy kipper which is her term for him, i did say i find it a bit strange the her son is very controling over my son but not with other children and yes he has some strange ways like mimicing other, he was in a reading group and one of the boys stutters and the next time his teacher read with him he was doing the same stutter, and he has always copyed george like his acent because george does speak a bit different to others he also does georges flapping which george does all the time when excited stressed ect, she has just emailed me to say she has looked up adhd and thinks he may have some traits ,so she is going to see her dr she says even if it to rule out adhd but it will put her mind at rest she nos i will support her all the way as she has done with me and george, but i had to make her aware that her son is making my son very unhappy at break times, if she gets to the bottom of this and it is recognised that her son has a form of something then hopefully she will receive the help see needs.

thanks

theresa x

[JsMum]

hi jsmum

the boys mum has been round this morning for coffee, and she asked me for my honest opinion about her son i did advise her to speak with her dr about this and asked if she felt they was something not quite right about her son ,she is realy confussed because at home he will sit and watch his tv or read paint for hrs without being a giddy kipper which is her term for him, i did say i find it a bit strange the her son is very controling over my son but not with other children and yes he has some strange ways like mimicing other, he was in a reading group and one of the boys stutters and the next time his teacher read with him he was doing the same stutter, and he has always copyed george like his acent because george does speak a bit different to others he also does georges flapping which george does all the time when excited stressed ect, she has just emailed me to say she has looked up adhd and thinks he may have some traits ,so she is going to see her dr she says even if it to rule out adhd but it will put her mind at rest she nos i will support her all the way as she has done with me and george, but i had to make her aware that her son is making my son very unhappy at break times, if she gets to the bottom of this and it is recognised that her son has a form of something then hopefully she will receive the help see needs.

thanks

theresa x

 

 

Firstly the behaviours your friend is showing already doesnt need a dx for him to recieve support from school, so the school could provide support already for his social, behavioural difficulties,

 

People have a lot of preconceived ideas how a ADHD child should and should not behave like, my son has significant concentration difficulties, he is impulsive and distracted but that doesnt mean he wont pay a lot of attention to things he finds stimulating, video games for example provide a lot sensory imput, reward and really gets them going, TV if its a programme they enjoy or have a particualr interest can be as sensory rewarding, J often watches myth busters and how its made over and over again never getting board, the predictability provides J a lot of security and he becomes comforted.

 

The imitation is interesting too, lots of children on the spectrum copy playing, such superman, ect.....

 

J can become frustrated with activities as he soon gets bored, or restless, and his distraction makes him go mad because he cant settle to one task for long, but there are times where he will spend hours playing with playdo, or mixing cookery ingrediants, or something that gives him a lot of sensory or calms him down.

 

I would recommend that your friend attends a parents support group, there is some parents at the moment in our group who have children displaying ADHD traits, as well as ASD traits and finding it difficult to get a dx because school say no problems, just naughty, manipulative, controlling behaviour.

 

So it maybe that she will get further information and advice.

 

What ever the outcome it doesnt cancle the fact that your friends son is struggling with social interaction, behaviour and his work.

 

JsMumxxx

 

Edited January 29, 2010 by JsMum

[Sally44]

I just wanted to add that if he has a diagnosis - problems with social use of language and general speech and language problems are part of the dx and these difficulties fall under the remit of the SALT. Do not do their job for them unless absolutely necessary. The SALT should have put together a programme covering all of this. These are needs that should be identified in a Statement with how professionals will put together programmes and how they will be carried out in school on a daily basis.

Write to the SALT, if you already have one. If you don't write to the Head of SALT to complain about your sons difficulties in school with social interaction and social use of language. Quote the teacher as saying that he never asks for help. Quote incidents in the playground. Quote the anxiety at home when he cannot sleep. When you ask for an assessment towards a statement this is all evidence you include. If SALT get involved all well and good. If they don't that is even greater evidence at tribunal that your sons needs are not being met.

You are his mother. You are not supposed to also be his SALT, EP and OT. There are qualified people for these areas of difficulty. If however they give you things to do at home all well and good.

If you keep volunteering to do it all yourself then no-one will see a need to get involved.

Go and have a look around a ASD specific school. Ask them how they help children communicate in such circumstances. You will find it usually involves using pictures first and getting them to complete the action using the picture as support. So if those schools use that system, all the professionals know about it, so why aren't you getting access to that kind of support???????

[Sally44]

The link for SCERTS is http://www.scerts.com/docs/SCERTSJJ_RM.pdf

 

It works through all the skills needed to communicate including gestures, shared attention, conversational skills, initiating interaction, ending interaction, asking questions, and so much more. Please read it. My son is soon to be starting this. What I like about it is that it lists all the skills, and you identify which ones your child can or cannot do therefore you don't waste time teaching him things he already knows. But you quickly identify where he might lack a major skill that is holding him back in social interaction or learning.

 

Please remember that we always 'assume' information. So, like your son, my son was 'assumed' to be okay because he never said otherwise. Now that he is beginning to get those skills he is verbalising his opinions and feelings and telling us what happens. He also tells us when he does not understand, or asks what things mean. This morning he asked me "did you have a good sleep." I don't remember him asking me how I felt before. So he is now beginning to recognise that other people have emotions and that they can be different to his.

[tjw]

The link for SCERTS is http://www.scerts.com/docs/SCERTSJJ_RM.pdf

 

It works through all the skills needed to communicate including gestures, shared attention, conversational skills, initiating interaction, ending interaction, asking questions, and so much more. Please read it. My son is soon to be starting this. What I like about it is that it lists all the skills, and you identify which ones your child can or cannot do therefore you don't waste time teaching him things he already knows. But you quickly identify where he might lack a major skill that is holding him back in social interaction or learning.

 

Please remember that we always 'assume' information. So, like your son, my son was 'assumed' to be okay because he never said otherwise. Now that he is beginning to get those skills he is verbalising his opinions and feelings and telling us what happens. He also tells us when he does not understand, or asks what things mean. This morning he asked me "did you have a good sleep." I don't remember him asking me how I felt before. So he is now beginning to recognise that other people have emotions and that they can be different to his.

hi sally

thanks for the link, i feel at the moment it is all me doing all the work for school, he has been on sa+ for a yr now and no outside professionals have been asked to come and see george, i have requested to ep on quite a few occations and hopfuly i will be seeing her next wk, i am also phoning all the people i have found on local goverment site including ep office, sen office and act, i no a lady they who is head of dept so will be getting all her input and help, thanks for the pm sally, going to go and make a big list of what i need to do now.

theresa x