Lack of respect

[joybed]

Hi as I type this i am very aware that it may all sound wrong and as if i am blaiming certain people for certain things this is not the intention I am merely trying to find a way for my son and his stepdad to get on, so please bear with me.

Marcus at the moment has gone from doing well at school and spending most of his time in his room to being anxious again and causing a lot of difficulties in the house. As far as i am aware nothing has changed at school ditto at home but he is becoming increasingly more giggly, shouting out silly words and destructive. He says he is the same at school and apart from 2 teachers at parents evening saying he disrupted the class by winding people up I havn,t been told this, (one of these teachers only gripe was lack of eye contact which was obviously the reason for his lack of concentration ). The past few days have been particularly bad Marcus has decided his stepdad has no right to tell him off, go into his room, infact have anysay regarding him whatsoever. Marcus has been overheard to be telling his younger siblings to ignore their dad has he is stupid and has no right to tell them off. He has a tantrum if DH even looks at him, will not listen to anything he says and is downright rude and frequently obnoxious. He is like this with me a little but more willing to sit down and listen, the only person he really listens to is his Nanna who hates my DH and thinks Marcus can do no wrong, she is rarely honest about anything DS and herself discuss.

Some background so hopefully you can help with this situation, DS1 was nearly 5 when i met DH, from the onset Miles accepted M as his own but I will admit had difficulties coping with ASD. DH had no children of his own and struggled with the transition from single man to father fo ASD child. Too much too soon I think. That being said he has always tried his very best, I will admit as will he that he often speaks before he puts his brain into gear and can say hurtful things. I am fed up with being piggy in the middle. I am concerned that Marcus has no respect for anyone and refuses to listen, I am also very aware he is a teenager. How can i make our home happier.

Edited February 4, 2010 by joybed

[matzoball]

it sounds like it could be the combination of a few things one of them being that simply put marcus is now experiencing teenage rebellion, i went through the same thing with my dad and stepmum when i was a teenager!

 

would you be able to perhaps sit with marcus, just yourself and him and maybe ask him if there is anything wrong? if he feels he is being listened to it might make all the difference?

[Paula]

Im comeing at this from a different angle.

 

my asperger son now 16 went through a phase like this where he wouldnt listen was rude and a terrible teen also........

 

Our son would say he was behavieng like his sister.........his sister is now 18.........that he was rebelling like she did ....he would announce im a ttenager now.............I kinda thought perhaps he feels to be "normal" hes to behave like has he sees it a normal rebelious paine in the butt teenager.........

 

Maybe thats what at the route of youre sons recent behaviour..........maybe hes thining im a teanager and i should be a paine in the backside because thats normal.

 

 

That aside.......not easy but we always found ignoreing our sons behaviour to a certaine extent put a stop to it........a lot of the time he was just wanting a reaction....when he didnt get one the fun element went.

[joybed]

Things have stepped up a gear tonight. We went to the hairdressers straight from school on returning it was late and I suggested we either eat out or get a takeaway. DH reminded me that Marcus had destroyed his school jumper the other day so couldn,t have a chinese. He kicked off big style, screaming and wailing, miles asked him calmly to go to his room which he refused, Miles gently pushed him towards the door to which Marcus punched him on the arm. Miles continued to suggest he leave the room and put gentle guidance in the middle of his back to guide him upstairs. HE then threw himself to the floor Miles touched him with his foot and pushed him into his room. HE continued to throw things and tantrum, we closed the door because the twins were scared. I left him to it for 5 minutes and then intended to go and talk to him, just as I stood up the phone rang (my mother) M had rang her on his mobile saying Miles had repeatedly kicked him and punched him in the back and legs and he was in agony. She said she was sick of Miles abusing M and was telephoning socail services (again). I said to her did she really think I would stay with a man who was abusing my son and told her i had been present at all times. She replied I had better go and look at him because he was distraught at the level of abuse he was being subjected to. I amazingly never lost my temper although she says i was shouting and explained about Ms poor attitude towards Miles. After speaking to M he has admitted Miles never kicked him but still maintains he hit him their is no mark on him anywhere and I was present the whole time. Miles admits he grabbed his jumper to get him up the stairs. I have tried to impress upon M the seriousness of his allegations but he says he doesn,t care he wants Miles out of our life. I am deaply concerned because if someone confessed these allegations to me I would be concerned and I know he is making it all up, for what reason i don,t know. M says he prefers to live with his Nanna as she is fun and lets him do as he likes, I have tried to explain if he lived there permanently things wouldn,t be the same. CAMHS have expressed concern about my mums interfering in the past and suggested we cut contact but this would break Marcus although this is breaking my family. WE are now discharged from CAHMS. I am losing him and feel powerless.

M is currently in his room playing on his computer like nothing happened DH is at the point where he is sick of the lies and my mothers interference, nobody has yet eaten and the twins are a bit upset and in the bath. Sorry for the rant.

[Tally]

Breaking contact with your mother might be the best thing for Marcus in the long run. Although he enjoys spending time with her, it's only because she apparently lets him do whatever he pleases. She seems to be doing more harm than good - for Marcus as well as the rest of the family.

 

Is it possible your mother has had some influence over your son's feelings toward his stepdad?

[jlogan1]

hi hope things have calmed down a bit,my dd of 13 is like this,ie no respect ,to her own dad,i spend much of my time playing piggy in the middle,although she has not been violent to your extent,she has hit her dad once in the arm,i think its a combination of teenagers and AS problems mixed in,but as said this is her own dad not step dad and she treats him like dirt most of the time,i am the only one that can deal with her in these moods,sorry cant offer any advise but just to let you know thinking of you and hope all calms down.

regards julia

[NobbyNobbs]

i have some experience with situations similar to this, and i agree with tally that it sounds like contact with his nan needs to be removed or restricted to visits when you are all in the room and she cannot talk to him unsupervised. reading between the lines i would think that he has been fed infomation which has manipulated his view of the family. it may not be intentional but if you ask a child 'has he hit you' or encourage them to tell you if there is ever a problem enough times they will start to answer yes just to please you as they start to think that this is the answer you are looking for. likewise if you suggest a person is no-good and bad often enough the child will start to parrot this belief (it happens so often in bad divorces). he may also have been told that if your husband hits him he can go live with his nan, and he is now at the point where he is delibrately creating an environment where this is more likely to happen to get what he wants. it will be difficult as i imagine you will have to take away his mobile phone, and he will need emotional support as well as he might genuinely fear his stepfather at the moment depending on how far this manipulation has gone.

 

i would strongly urge you to contact SS to fill them in on the story and that you are following CAMHS advice in cutting contact before you do so, as it is likely she will contact SS straight away to claim all sorts of things. the one redeeming thing with SS is that they aren't stupid (understaffed, underfunded and sometimes uninterested for sure), and are VERY experienced in the type of manipulation going on here. in my experience (10+ foster placements) grandparents manipulation is the biggest risk for children after they come into care as it can become emotionally abusive. i draw the parallel to children in care because Marcus' nan is putting him in the same situation children in care are often in, playing one side of the family off as all to blame against the supposedly innocent side.

[JsMum]

M is currently in his room playing on his computer this is the bit I dont think is fair, the twins have missed their treat, and everyone is upset yet marcus is happily playing on his computer! I certainly would of removed ours if this had of been our house, your son has real jelousy issues here and causing real family divide, the bit where he is telling his siblings not to obey the rules is not on either, I have advised before that his Nan is probably stiring the old wooden spoon here, I think it may be a good idea to get some support with his behaviour as it could actually lead Miles in a lot of trouble soon, marks or not, the school would take marcus's word with the backing of his Nan, there may be enough to go on what Marcus is saying.

 

I personally think he really is stepping over the mark and the way its going he may well succeed in what it is trying to do, seperate you and Miles.

 

JsMumxxx

 

Edited February 4, 2010 by JsMum

[joybed]

Hi and thankyou all for your replies. When I said noone had eaten we got a takeaway later although we got an indian not the chinese Marcus wanted, Marcus isn,t keen on indian and complained all the way through it but everyone else was OK with it. Lydia was the most upset as she is very sensitive and tends to go very quiet when Marcus starts it really upsets her. Piers wasn,t really that bothered he said (exact words) "Marcus is such a baby having a tantrum I am autistic and I would never behave like that, I am better behaved than Marcus". This morning M woke saying he felt ill and it was the fault of the takeaway and it was my fault for making him eat it. To be honest and I feel guilty saying this I could barely bring myself to speak to him. HE carried on trying to get a reaction until I told him what I thought, he seems to think I have no control that his Nanna is in charge so I have told him different and that what I say goes in this house and his Nanna has no say in the matter. He has gone to school angry and I feel sure wil tell his LSA,s the story, will ring school and fill them in. Lydia again was upset by the agro this morning and to top it off I realised this morning that she has a spelling test and we have only learned them once due to all the hassle this week.

I am seeing my Mum this evening and am dreading it the last time something like this happened we ended up rowing and I left the house with all 3 kids which upset them all, but I am not beeing a doormat anymore. MY Mum is very good at playing the marter and Will twist it to make others believe she is right , she still denies she emotionally abused myself and sister as we were growing up, my sister has mental health problems and won,t admit it as she needs the support of my mum and my Dad denies it for a quiet life. I feel very alone and if truth be told she makes me feel like a little girl in her presense and I start to wonder if i have imagined everything. I am now going to a friends for coffe who is in a similar situation with her 14 year old in Marcus class so will get some much needed support.

 

[Suze]

Camhs have family therapists...perhaps you could ask for urgent referral via gp and get the lot of you down there.Your mum needs to be involved and aware of what her interference is doing....OR.....you need to tell her she,ll have to take a big step back from your lives.I would punish your son for the call to his gran by taking the phone off him.Also I would perhaps suggest that you take on board all disciplining of your son and your husband leaves the room when he tantrums, then he can,t be blamed for abusing /hitting him.I ,d try and get some help asap as a family unit with your mum aswell where by this can all be discussed openly with a proffesional present .

[joybed]

Have contacted school and spoke to his year tutor he has said that marcus has been very giggly this week and appears to be distancing himself from the rest of the school. i am not surprised as he only really likes to be close to one person his Nanna. School thankfully said that they do not believe for one minute Marcus is being abused and they have noticed he tells stories. So this is arelief.

I spent a long time talikng with my friend earlier and we decided that I need to gradually get marcus to spend less time with his nanna and get him to spend more time with us as a family. HE is reluctant to do anything with us but goes everywhere with his Nanna. The last school holiday he spent hardly anytime at home and was very reluctant to even spend christams day with us. My parents seem to be taking control of him and we havn,t even noticed it happening. The only problem is my Mum will see this as something personal now that we have had a row last night and yet again i will be the bad one. Feel physically ill which to be honest i could do without at the moment as i have had enough health worries so i just need to figure out a way of doing this as sensitively as possible.

Edited February 5, 2010 by joybed

[Mandapanda]

she makes me feel like a little girl in her presense

 

Hi joybed

 

There are many stages of 'growing up' in life, I think you're approaching another, very crucial one. I have been through this (with my sister, who was like a mum to me), and it is such a relief not to be controlled and tied down mentally by still being the child in the relationship. It wasn't easy to do, and I've had counselling to support me through it, but I feel really mature and in control of my life now.

 

I wish you the strength to change your mindset when dealing with your mum. In the end it will be better for your children too.

 

<'> <'> <'>

[Sally44]

There are quite a few things in your posts that I wanted to comment on.

 

Firstly you said your DH has said things to M to hurt him. Being literal with language might cause M not to forgive or forget what has been said. You may need to talk to M about how people sometimes say things they don't mean when they are upset or angry. And it might help if both DH and M have to apologise to eachother after saying hurtful things.

 

Regarding hitting and punching. If M has sensory issues, then he may feel touch as pain. He may not be lying about this, but it is his processing of how it felt to him. Just consider that and whether that might at all play any part. If it could, then you need to explain to M that sometimes he feels things differently. You might also need to take over from DH in ensuring that M does as he is told and goes to his room. And that would leave DH to back you up rather than being the perpetrator of discipline, which could cause problems for any child when the step parent is the one dishing out the discipline. You are his biological mother and the relationship between you and M is much stronger than between DH and M.

 

I also agree that if M has caused so much upset that he should not have computer time. He should go to his room to calm down. When he is calm you go in and see him, talk through what happened and why it was wrong and tell him how he can 'repair' the situation eg. apologise to whomever he needs to, and that if he remains calm he will gain some computer time after 1 hour or something similar. In that way there is a punishment and an incentive to repair the situation and an incentive to remain good to get the right to go on the computer.

 

 

[justine1]

Hi Joybed

I unfortunatley dont have any advice,I can see have have got some great advice already,but I know exactly how you feel with regards to your mum.

 

I am the baby in the family and the only girl so my brothers and my mother have always controlled in me in one way or another.I was nearly 18 when Josh(9) was born and she took over completely in some ways it was nice as being a young mum I did sometimes feel at a loss but sometimes I just wanted her to back off.When ever I said something it would be "Oh if I drop down dead tomorrow" and "he is my first grandchild" it usually ended in her storming off. She lives abroad so for the past 7 years I have seen her three times,I do miss her but when she is here she drives me mad

 

My eldest brother is the same he expects to always see him when he wants and go where he wants and buy what he suggests,I realise he is looking out for me but feel I have had enough.I am drifting away from them now because it seems whenever I say "no" I dont hear from anyone for three weeks because they off sulking.

 

Back to you,I know its hard,and it is great that your son is close to his nan at least he has someone to turn to,but it is important to sound out the message that you are the parent and you are in control.I was watching the news the other day where they were saying a new law may make it possible for grandparents to have legal visitation rights to their grandkids,I just think thats wrong we as parents should ultimatley decide who our children can see and when.There are many children who have no grandparents or like in my case only see them once every few years,it doesnt do them any harm.

 

I do hope everything calms down in the home soon <'>

[joybed]

Hi Sally i am already aware of the sensory issues and have explained this to DS and DH they both accept it but my mum refuses to this as an issue to her Marcus is being punched and she sees it that we are covering up and hushing up Marcus. Last night she was bareley speaking to me and she was obviously not backing me up on the discipline front. M was very rude when he came home from school (to me DH wasn,t there) and I told him off a few times and he just laughed in my face. I mentioned to my mum that i can,t get thorugh to him and he won,t listen to me and she was neither bothered nor told M off, she just shrugged her shoulders in a serves you right attitude. DH says i should have brought M home straight away saying to my Mum that if she wasn,t willing to back us up she can,t have him, but it all seems so negative and would make Ms attitude towards us even worse. I had decided yesterday that i was going to reduce contact with his Nanna with a view to building up a family relationship again. M hasn,t been on holiday with us for 2 years as he causes such trouble and spends all weekends and most school holidyas with his garandparents, this situation has snuck up on us without us realising it. Now M says he doesn,t belong with our family anymore won,t listen to us and doesn,t get on with his siblings. He uses his home as a place to sleep and go to school from, he shows no love or liking of us at all and is reluctant to do anything with us. So as i said I wanted to slowly build up a relationship with my son again but A, my parents will make this difficult as they will demand he keeps going to them as often especially if it makes M upset and B, and more significantly DH says he isn,t really willing to try as M makes life so difficult for everyone it makes family life impossible and Lydia particularly is terrified of him. I really want to try but DH says if the twins suffer he will take them away as they are not suffering for Ms sake. I am torn and can bareley bring myself to look at DH today. I know he shouldn,t be with his Nanna as she is manipulating the situation to her own advantage she has said since M was small she wanted full custody, but Marcus says he will make everyones life hell till he gets to live with his Nanna. Part of me thinks everyone except me would be happier if he went to live with his Nanna, but I know this isn,t true as she lets him do as he likes. I know he wouldn,t go to school but she wouldn,t HE either and he would stay at home with her all day. Or she will get fed up and send him back home and he will be gutted also DH says if he goes he isn,t coming back. Have been close to tears all day but know i have to try i won,t give up on him.

My parents have no regard for any rules we set up in the home, we put Marcus on a GF/CF diet they broke it telling him it was stupid, we said no holidays in tern time they book holidays in term time. Piers was lactose intolerant as a baby my Mum fed him a family sized pack of chocolate buttons when he was sick it wasn,t her fault, we have have asked her for the past 2 weeks not to buy P+L a DVD but they get a new one every week. What kind of message is this sending out to the kids but I and DH are the only ones who see this as unreasonable behaviour they are the grandparents and have a say in there upbringing. I have tried to be nice but am on the verge of losing it I suppose i have been a doormat till now but no more. I have kept the peace for my Dad who is a nice man but does anything for a quiet life. I really don,t want to fall out with them but can,t see an alternative as they are not listening. Mum won,t come to CAMHS and I wouldn,t feel comfortable talking about it in front of her anyway as she will deny everything and then make life hell. DH cannot be reasonable in her presense as he says she is just evil. She will be filling M full of poisonous bile as we sit here. I can,t speak to my sister as she will say keep quiet for a peacefull life, the last time we fell out my Sis said if i cut contact with M and Mum I wouldn,t see her or her children either. My niece is 18 now so could make up her own mind but i don,t want to cause trouble for her either.

[Tally]

There are not going to be any quick solutions here. If you did cut off contact with your mother, things would likely get worse before they got better. The other option is to carry on as you are and things will get worse slightly more slowly. Can your husband put up with things for a while, knowing that they will eventually get better?

 

I think you might need some kind of family therapy here to work out a solution that you and your husband can both live with.

 

You have CAHMS on your side over cutting off contact, so it is unlikely your mother could obtain custody of your son when there are records of the damage his relationship with her is causing.

 

Your mother seems the type that will not allow any vague half measures like seeing less of Marcus. You may have to consider cutting her off altogether. That way, she can't manipulate you into things you're not happy with. If she causes a problem, there are things you can do to make her leave you alone.

[Sally44]

It sounds like everyone, DH, M and Mum are all giving you ultimatums. You alone cannot solve all of these difficulties unless there is some agreement and teamwork going on. If you agree and do not allow M to see his nan, then DH has got to commit to the repercussions of that and it all has to be planned with CAHMS with them referring all the family for some kind of 'family therapy'.

And as already said it could get very much worse before it gets better because you will have cut off M's escape route to nan, and will have forced DH to deal with M in the home situation. And secretly, although DH may not like your mum, he may actually welcome the times when M is not home and is with her.

So I would talk it through with DH to make sure he can commit to that option and not just walk out with the twins.

It's an awful situation to be in.

Is there any other route you could take. Have you considered a residential placement for M? That might be an environment which is much more structured and consistent and where he will have to be more independent?

 

What do you think is the cause of M getting more giggly lately?? My son tends to do that when he is withdrawing more and is 'replaying' something amusing in his head rather than deal with what is happening real time.

 

All you can do is try your best to do what you feel is right. I am fortunate with my family at the moment. I don't know what I would do if I was in a position where I might have to severe contact with one of my children or split the family.

 

If M did live with his nan and you are sure your mum would not send him to school and that she would not be able to deal with him for long - surely the school would be in touch to ensure he did go into school? And although he might be gutted do you think M might then begin to understand that nan was not reliable?

[Mandapanda]

Hi joybed

 

You're being torn in all directions. I think you may need to go back to CAMHS, possibly on your own first, to explain everything that is happening and how it is affecting the family and M. You can't solve everyone's problems on your own, and you shouldn't be expected to.

[JsMum]

I dont think your DH is trying to give you ultermatums on purpose, as he sees it is he trying to protect the twins, marcus's behaviour is causing them both real stress and anxiety here, and your daughter is terrified of him, he has also expressed he can not build up any form of relationship with your mum as he just doesnt see any form of relationship there in the first place and all he see's is her manipulating the situation so I think family therapy would have to be between you, your DH and DS and the two little ones too, I would cut ties with your mum and start again with your family, with clear expectations of Marcus's behaviour, if he didnt have his nan around at all, his behaviour towards the children is still totally unexceptable and there needs to be concequences to his actions, he is a big lad and there only little children, he will cause great harm to them soon if he doesnt control his behaviour.

 

I think the concerns are the immediate family.

 

Even taking Nan out of the aquation, Marcus's behaviour will still be a problem, because of the way he is treating his siblings, its totally unexceptable.

 

JsMumxxx

 

[daniels-mum]

I hope things are a little calmer for you Joybed, I am in no position to offer advice but just wanted to say you are in my thoughts.

 

I am very lucky that I have a supportive mum and sister who are a very positive influence in our life but I also know how hard it is been stuck in the middle of a sometimes very destructive step family as I am with my partner so can sympathise with this. We have a young child together and I have a stepson but he is not the father of my eldest son who is the one with difficulties. Our relationship has broken for down for good, and I am sure this is partly due to rows over all 3 of the kids although there are other factors. I think it is a hard enough situation with NT kids but when you have the added pressure of AS/special needs I think this can magnify things (although this just my opionion and am not speaking for anyone else). We have both said very hurtful things in the heat of the of the moment, about each others parenting skills and even though we have apologised these things are still said and cant be taken back and I can't bring myself to forgive them even though I have tried. I have been so preoccupied with battle with the LA over the last year but now that is hopefully coming to an end (fingers crossed!!) I know I am going to have to deal with my family situation and I know there are no easy answers.

 

You must feel so stuck in the middle and ultimately all you want is what's best for your all your kids. I hope I am not speaking out of turn but it sounds like your mum has quite a destructive influence over your son and can totally understand why you would want to cut contact with her and I am sure that will help things in the long term. I hope things start to get better for you soon, I will be thinking of you xxx