my autistic child is lying

[mygifts1306]

Does anyone has this problem, Ds is 7 and fibs a lot of the time, how can i get around this, what strategies can i use, he was diagoned with as in dec 08, i read the innitial tony artwood which helped me understand the conditon, now i dont know what will work for him, any advice wii be appreciated. x

[NobbyNobbs]

with K (4) if we know it is a lie we very calmly say 'i dont think that is true' and if she insists we then say 'you can keep saying it if you like, but i know it is not true' then refuse to talk about it any more. if we find out after the event she was lying we tell her that we know she was lying and that lying makes us very sad. she was completely oblivious of her impact on anyone else before this, but now responds when we tell her something she has done has made us sad and we do the same with angry.

 

we do a lot of emotion talking in general. a social worker once told us that society expects parents to be perfect, but if a child never sees you angry, how do they know how to deal with their own anger? so we will say things like 'you doing X has made me very angry. i want to go and sit quietly for a minute while i calm down' and then walk off which works very well. kids gradually learn to predict the emotional response to their actions and hopefully decide not to do it!

[justine1]

Hi

I think it depends on what you mean by lying.All children have told little white lies or porkys at some point for example there is the classsic one where a child has eaten a slice of chocolate cake that the mother said not to touch when the mother returns she sees some cake missing and says "did you eat the cake" and the child says "No it wasnt me" with chocolate all over his mouth.

Also if he has an active imagination he could be creating ficticious things.Like one of my sons friends told him his father earns £2000 a week and turns out he is a Bin Man.

 

I think the story of the "Boy who Cried Wolf" is very very good at explaining what the consequences are for someone who tells lies.I have used the story for my kids and Sam really understood.

[cmuir]

Hi

 

My 8 year old tells lots of fibs. Has to be said, some a little white ones, others are absolute corkers that could have serious consequences. He told his LA that I hit him frequently, told me that his teacher pushed him twice causing him to bang his head, will say he'd didn't go to school and walked the streets on his own, etc, etc. This is problematic in that I have no idea what's true and what's not as kiddo sounds very believable. I sought advice from a specialist teacher and she produced a fantastic social story that differentiates between fact and fiction. It gave examples of each and there was also a game in which R could stick on little picture cards which he thinks are factual and fictitious. The social story also convered the fact that people can become confused or sad as a result of being told something is factual instead of fictitious. Difficult one to cover. On a daily basis, R usually tells tall stories and rather than get embroiled into a debate, I simply tel him that that sounds like fiction (rather than using the word 'lies'). He now usually tells me whether I'm correct or not, which I think is a step in he right direction.

 

Caroline.

[jb1964]

Hi

I think it depends on what you mean

 

I'm with Justine on what you mean by lying - my daughter may misinterpret things and give the wrong answer because she thinks I mean something else or she believes something happened because that is how it made her feel (if you know what I mean) - but she has never deliberately lied - for her this would be against the rules (so to speak).

 

Take care,

Jb

[mygifts1306]

thanks guys for all your replies, i will give an example of what i mean, we keep a diary with his teacher, so when he came home i read that it said " not a good day today as he bit another child" well i was very calm and asked him how his day was and he said it was ok, so i gave him a snack as usual part of the routine for hometime, then i asked him to tell me about the note, the teacher says he bit another child and and another staff member took him and he did not seem to realise how serious this was. He said the girl was in her way, i said even so, he must not bite somebody else just because they are in the way, he maintained he did not bite the child, and he said there was no bruise, then i asked him if the child cried, he said yes but she cried for nothing, then i asked him again he said he did not bite the child, i said, honey you will get into more trouble if you dont tell mum the truth, by trouble i meant i would take his ds from him for a few day, he knows this and does not like it, or grounding for the pm which mean he will not get to go outside and play football or jump on the trampoline, well he said he was telling the truth, so i wrote down what he said back to the teacher. we did homework, had dinner and did the normal bedtime routine of bath, story teeth and bed. in the morning at the breakfast table, i decide that i would ask him again, i spoke very clearly and i said, " for the last time son, did you bite the other child yesterday?", he said YEs, and i said why did you not tell me the truth yesterday, he said he "forgot", i got very mad and told him very sternly that mum does not like it when he does not tell the truth , i told him, i do not like to have to speak to him in this manner to him when he comes home or before he goes to school, so i had to write back to the teacher what he said. He was so convincing the day before and i belived him, how can i not know, and he cant establish eye contact and had no way of knowing, i would class this as a lie.

 

 

thanks guys i am off to bed, got work tomoz

 

jax

[justine1]

Yes, that is lie.My son does the same thing but its rare.I think it is pushing the boundarys so to speak,he may not have realised at first that the teacher had informed you of the incident he may also think that because you were not there he could say it never happened and you would question the school or just take his word for it and therefore he would avoid getting punnished.

 

My son did this constantly playing his dad and I against each other and recently with the school making it seem as though the school are against him but I made it clear that he is staying put at his school and that me and the school are working together to help him.I think he sometimes lies to make people happy with him,like he often tells his dad he read a book or did his maths when he didnt just so his dad will say well done.He tells the school "my mum lets me do what I want" which again is untrue he just says it thinking they will let him do what he wants.Sam also says "I forgot" often thinking that will get him off lightly but most times I know this is also untrue.

 

I just wondered something else because if you tell him he will get into more trouble by lying this may make the situation worse,it is good to say it is good to always tell the truth,also was he punnished for biting the girl?what happened when he admitted he lied was he punnished again?Sorry,obviousley you will parent him differently to myself or others but I think I can also learn from your experience.I dont know if you do this or not but when I am going to talk to Sam about his day,I do it at home,not at the school or on the way home as he gets upset and this makes things worse,I make sure the room is quiet not with his brothers around as he gets embarrassed when they look at him,I make sure he has had something to eat and drink and that he has been to the toilet,also make sure he is not too tired,The most important thing I go down to his level I hold his arms gently so he does not sway(this is not restricting his movement as he can still get out of my grasp easily)then I tell him to look at me,in a nice manner,sometimes he doesnt and he sometimes giggles but he is getting better,then I ask him carefully about what he did and if he is not to restless I will ask him why does he think that was wrong.He could not do this four months ago but now he is able to tell me lots of info.He looks at me when I talk about other things as well like when we discuss a book sitting down together its really nice.Of course he does have bad days though!

[JsMum]

Maybe look at stratagies that look into feelings around lying, for both of you, for him he probably felt guilty, embarrassed, ashamed that he bit this child, maybe he didnt know how to deal with the feelings, also look at the feelings when you got that initial realisation that your child convincingly told you his side when infact he was lying, for example for me I felt hurt that he could be so dishonest, I took it personally, for me the lie was more about how I felt, as I felt hurt that he acted in a dishonest way, I personally thought we had a relationship where he could tell me anything becuase he trusted me, but he obvously didnt as he was lying to me so I felt I failed more than anything, That is when I researched Lying and how to get children to tell you the truth and one thing I did learn is that it is a normal part of thier development and actually starts very early too.

 

Obvously I learnt ways to get him to tell the truth but even with many stratagies in place he can still lie or takes a long time to come clean, but I dont take it personally as I did before and I would tell him how I feel when he lies.

 

I worked on feelings for J too, in frustration he doesnt have the same communication skills so we increased these using visual cards and had nominated staff member J feels he can go to if he is having difficulties and getting in their early.

 

You could discuss the cituation in more detail of the incident where he did bite the child, but more about how he was feeling when this child was in his way, what he was feeling? trapped, closed in, no space to move, obstruct his own path, distracted, ect....one of the reasons I hate going into town is because people cant walk in a straight line anymore and often walk right infront of your path, and then look at me as though Im in thier way, I get sooo mad, so I can understand his frustration, obvously I have learnt ways of dealing with this, but your son may need more ideas how to deal with his emotions when this happens.

 

What Ive also learnt why J tells lies is the way I have reacted the last time he lied and then he is more fearful to tell me the truth because the last time he did I hit the roof as so to speak.

 

Its a hard ballance to get, its still a problem for me so just wanted you to know your not alone in this.

 

There is some good books in Amazon uk on telling the truth and honesty books but also some time to discuss how it makes you both feel too.

 

 

JsMumxxx

 

Edited March 20, 2010 by JsMum

[mygifts1306]

thank you very much to all that have responded to my post. thanks justine, i think saying "you will get into more trouble if you dont tell mummy the truth!" is a very complex sentence, infact i picked this sentence up from a mum of a boy who is nt, i will think about my language, better to say " it is not good to lie", or "lying makes mummy mad", thank you also Js mum for your thoughts on this one, and your experiences, i think and exploration of feelings is very important, and certainly i will speak to him about how he felt when he had no space, we are going for a review meeting next wednesday so i will certainly be able to talk a bit clearly about his feelings.

Thanks Justine, i will try to encourage the eye contact a bit more,

 

thank you very much, just a little stressed about this issues, they really make me unhappy, and i dont know, i really need to take a good stock of my feelings really, for instance there was a coffee morning at his school the other week, i felt i could not go and have a cup of tea, as i dont have friends at the school, the friendships that i had have crumbled down because i have been seen as full on and needy. I have found this very hurtful, and i was really shocked to hear about aspegers as i did not know anyone who had it, i wrote a post about it.

 

When you dont hear from me dont think i dont read here because i do read, sometimes i dont know what to write or i dont have the strength to write anything at all. I have been trying to read novels just outside aspergers syndrome and have enjoyed some books.

 

 

thanks for reading.

 

jax

[Sally44]

When my son was first diagnosed I did find that my circle of friends changed to other mums with children with needs. Simply because I did not have the same interests or concerns as the other mums. My child could not do what theirs was doing. In the end my son did move to another school.

I think you might find it helpful to find out about local parent support groups. There maybe one that fits the needs you have to be able to talk to someone about similar issues. Our children are complex, and if you don't have experience of an ASD it is hard to understand the diffiuclties our children have. I'm not saying cut out anyone without first hand experience of ASDs. But as mums we do tend to talk about our children alot. You need a peer group where you can do that about your son without feeling you are being judged, and where you will get some understanding and even helpful advice.

[mygifts1306]

thanks a lot sally44

[cmuir]

Hi

 

My 8 year old tells lots of fibs. Has to be said, some a little white ones, others are absolute corkers that could have serious consequences. He told his LA that I hit him frequently, told me that his teacher pushed him twice causing him to bang his head, will say he'd didn't go to school and walked the streets on his own, etc, etc. This is problematic in that I have no idea what's true and what's not as kiddo sounds very believable. I sought advice from a specialist teacher and she produced a fantastic social story that differentiates between fact and fiction. It gave examples of each and there was also a game in which R could stick on little picture cards which he thinks are factual and fictitious. The social story also convered the fact that people can become confused or sad as a result of being told something is factual instead of fictitious. Difficult one to cover. On a daily basis, R usually tells tall stories and rather than get embroiled into a debate, I simply tel him that that sounds like fiction (rather than using the word 'lies'). He now usually tells me whether I'm correct or not, which I think is a step in he right direction.

 

Caroline.

 

 

Hi

 

Meant to add that clearly there are occasions when my son is telling blatant lies, there are occasions though when it's to do with perception. For example, he told his LA that I hit him a lot and was smiling at me when he told her that. He was doing it because he was upset with me and told me that he wanted me to get into trouble. However, on another occasion, he told me with teacher has pushed him causing him to bump his head. After further investigation it turned out that R did in fact bump his head twice. He's actually walked out of class, teacher in pursuit who instructed him to go back to class after he tried to get out of the building. He did eventually open the door with some force which hit him causing him to bump his head. To him, it was very black and white and to be frank I can see how he arrived at the opinion of thinking it was the teacher's fault – ie had she not told him to open the door and get back to class, the door wouldn't have hit him causing him to bump his head. So, with R, it's not always easy to differentiate whether it's an out and out lie, or whether it's a perception issue. Clearly, lying needs to be handled differently in terms of making it know that there are consequences, ie crying wolf, getting people into trouble, etc. Whereas, perception issues require a more collaborative approach. I discovered that my son's teacher had had a word and R reported back to me that she'd told him that he was telling lies causing upset to me. Whilst her intentions were good, I thought it was rather a clumsy approach. I then sought specialistic advice and that's where the social stories came in. Given that ASD kids take in visual info better than verbal info, for us it worked well.

 

Caroline.

[Shnoing]

Your son might be unable to differentiate between lying and being polite. 'Telling the truth' might include - in his view - telling people 'you're fat', 'you're ugly', 'you stink', 'you're too loud', 'you're in my way', 'I'm not interested in what you say', etc. So perhaps he has already learned that you're not allowed to tell every truth, but he has not yet learned which truths to tell.

[dmtam]

Your son might be unable to differentiate between lying and being polite. 'Telling the truth' might include - in his view - telling people 'you're fat', 'you're ugly', 'you stink', 'you're too loud', 'you're in my way', 'I'm not interested in what you say', etc. So perhaps he has already learned that you're not allowed to tell every truth, but he has not yet learned which truths to tell.

 

 

Hiya I am new and have just posted about the same thing my son constantly lies, he is 13 yrs old now and for past few months things have gone a lot worse.

he came home today and told me that he has a parents evening tomorrow and it was now to late to book a time, and he hid the letter, I asked him if this was right and he laughed at me telling me yes, I then rung the school up as I know he has hidden letters before to be told they do not have a parents evening and they would ring me whan they have , when i asked him about it he just laughed and ran off,

he then was hiding something so I checked his pocket and found my mum and dads window lock keys which he has picked up, again when asked he never took them , asked my mum and dad and they are in the kitchen drawer so he must have taken them, again asked him and i just get dunno cant remember.

everyday he constanlty lies to the point we dont know what to beleive anymore , he pinches things, lies and has such an attitude, he hurts the other boys and ignores everything we tell him, he wont even get washed or changed, tells us got clean pants on we ask were dirty ones are then gets moody and tells us not changed them , then its a battle to get him to change them same for washing, brushing teeth

sorry its a bit long just first time ever heard somebody say there child does the same

thanks x