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Sally44

School have refused to let me observe my son

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As part of the enhanced resource mainstream provision, the school has a weekly social skills group. In it the children supposedly work on social skills. I have never been given any details of what the targets or aims of the group or my son are, eventhough I have requested this information. I am meeting the SALT in school next week and she suggested we both go into the Social Group to observe. School have refused me access on the grounds that the children will behave differently if someone else is there. So why is it okay for the SALT to go in?? These are 'mainstream' ER children, and I would be allowed to observe a class. So I don't feel the restriction is due to the children.

Then the Head added that it is run by TAs who will feel 'intimidated' by my presence.

 

This just sounds like an ad hoc group run by TAs who are not trained or confident in what they are doing, and therefore they don't want me to see what they are doing with my child or as a group.

 

I asked him to put his refusal in writing.

 

Opinions??

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My gut instinct is "what are they trying to hide"

 

I definately agree with getting the refusal in writing.

 

Can you get the SaLT to confirm her idea for you to visit put in writing too?

 

Not sure where you go from there, but experience has taught me to get everything in writing, THEN think about your next move.

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He has replied saying that my son would behave differently if I were there. And that that would impact on the other children too. He has said it puts unnecessary pressure on the TA leading the group and that I can get all the info I need from the SALT.

Thing is, i've also had a member of staff who refused to attend the MEP (and annual review) meetings because they feel intimidated. This is my son's TA (I believe) as no one has been named, but she is absent! I've got an MEP coming up soon. If she isn't there I'll ask for an explanation. And I have never had a crossed word with her!

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ooooh I would defiintely be asking questions!

 

Different scenario as I teach trampoline to all abilities of child and adult and parents are not permitted in the hall to watch, there is a viewing gallery for that, however we have no problem for the odd parents watching if they wish to request it. The only reason we asked the parents to leave was from a H&S point of view as we calculated there were 75 people and 5 trampolines on one badminton court in one session which was ridiculous! The parents often have younger children who came along too, so we invested in spotting blocks for the children and asked the parents to leave to view from upstairs

 

Since then we have had the occasional request and it's granted, I do not have a problem with parents being there and I do not like being watched doing things, but when teaching it doesn't feel as if I am being watched iyswim

 

One boy I teach is being assessed for something on the spectrum and I asked if his mum wanted to stay with him, but as she has another small child we compromised with allowing her son to bring a book along to each session to sit and read whilst waiting for his turn, this is against the norm as they are meant to participate in what the others are doing during the lesson, but it works for him and the class and although I was concerned about segregating him his Mum was very happy about it as is her son as it means he can still come and participate in the class. I just wish she had told me from the start rather than 6 weeks into the course with me saying there is something going on to my colleague and trying to get this boy to conform when it is now clear why he cannot.

 

Sorry gone off on a tangent a bit there!

 

Back to your point, yes I would be concerned why an observation was not permitted and push it further if possible

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Hi sally -

 

Sorry to say this, but that thing about people feeling compromised/intimidated by you does seem to crop up quite regularly - you mentioned something very similar in a post about something else (annual review, I think?).

I've got to say you do come across as something of a concrete thinker, regardless of how much others might disagree with you and/or any strengths or logic to their opposition. I can see why that would be frustrating, and, for some, intimidating. It may be more that they are anticipating you not liking what you see and objecting, and them feeling that that will have a detrimental effect on your son and the efficacy of the group, or that you will want to impose your own very rigid thinking on the way it is managed.

 

 

 

L&P

 

BD :D

Edited by baddad

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I don't think it's at all appropriate that you go in to observe, whether or not TAs are intimidated by you.

 

I'd also take on board that TAs are intimidated and modify my behaviour as there's no need to make them feel that way.

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Have to say, I agree with the school here. I don't think it would be appropriate or fair on anyone for you to sit in, not least your son, surely it would be awkward for him having you sitting there observing, possibly with arms folded and frown on face. It might be a small, intimate group and having a parent sitting there watching the TA's every move would be intimdating and make them feel like they are on show and performing for you, how could anyone relax in that atmosphere. Could you not feel contented that they are providing a social skils group and trust that they're doing their best with it, even if it isn't perfect. My son was at his school for four and a half years before they did anything like that with him.

 

~ Mel ~

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I know from my own experience as a child care worker that children will behave completely differently when their parent are present.

 

From a parents point of view I also know the same thing, part of the reason we feel it would be a good thing for my son to spend time away from me in a social setting.

 

I understand a parent desire to observe their child in settings like this but if it cannot be done without intrusion into the group then it is likely to have a negative affect on the normal running of the group.

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Hi, I work with children and some have autism and I have often used video to capture the children doing different things and edited it with music etc so the parents can see during reviews-so may be something like that could be done if the SALT thinks you need to observe?????????

 

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Hi sally

 

I can understand you want to see your son 'in action' and see what the TA does but I can also understand the TA's viewpoint. For performance management I have to observe TAs and provide feedback to them and although I work hard to make them feel at ease they can easily feel intimidated. Part of this is (I think) that they take their roles very seriously and want to be seen to be doing their best for the children and often they don't have loads of qualifications.

 

What you could do is ask for his language group targets - in our LA the SLTs provide them and also ask for any plans so you can see what activities he does. The school SLTs usually work closely with TAs and should be able to give you an idea of what happens. In my experience being in a small group with an adult playing games and talking about your 'news' has worked wonders for most children. I can understand the worries that the group dynamics might be changed with a parent present and you may see something that is not typical which may mislead you.

 

I think I might be inclined to get the information from the SLT & the plans targets etc and then try to get a feel for what goes on. It might also be worth investing some time building up a relationship with the TA don't know if you've tried and been rebuffed but it might pay dividends. They may eventually feel more comfortable with you in a session.

 

Hope this helps to see the 'inside' view. :D

A

 

ps hope this makes sense = was up all night!

Edited by av16

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Just because someone says they are intimidated, does not mean I have intimidated them. And I have no idea of who is intimidated. If it is the TA that can only be after she witnessed an exchange the SENCO had with me when the SENCO cancelled the MEP meeting as soon as I arrived in school. She told me my son had been sick and I had to take him home. She said "I am not prepared to risk my health or the health of my unborn child by being in the same area as a sick child" (she was pregnant at the time). I had not said or done anything at this stage. The TA was present and looked intimidated by the SENCO not me!! I did not argue the case. I said I was not happy with this ongoing situation as my son's attendance had been reduced to a 3 day week over a 3 month period. But I did not argue, and I took him home. As his paediatrician said. If they cannot reduce the anxiety/stress causing the vomitting or cope with it, then he is in the wrong school. Her words, not mine.

 

My son does vomit when anxious or stressed. The school HAD agreed not to send him home if he was sick once on the advice of his PAEDIATRICIAN - not my request. And they failed to do that. The Paediatrician wrote them a further letter saying they should look at their own procedures and his levels of anxiety as the cause of the vomitting. And she has had to write them a further letter about him having a learning difficulty because it is plain that he does have one.

 

I was going into the social group at the REQUEST and INVITATION of the SALT, not my request. The Head said that if I wanted details of the targets being worked on that they would provide them. Well that will be the first time in 2 years. So I can't be that intimidating if my requests have been ignored for 2 years!

 

And if the school feels intimidated because they have just had to admit that they were wrong and my son does have dyslexia, and has a reading age of 4.9 years (when he is over 9), and that contradicts their 'accelerated progress'. Then I'm sorry, but they don't feel intimidated because of me. They feel bad because they have been proven wrong and that they have not done their job or met or identified his needs.

 

And if anyone has been intimidated (sat in meetings with 6+ people facing me) with the EP stating categorically that my son does not have dyslexia and is making progress (reducing me to tears with the sheer frustration of it). Or should I not say a word and let him remain illiterate?? If he is making progress all they have to do is produce evidence of it.

 

I am not a concrete thinker. Far from it. But I would point out that I have been right. Unless you are suggesting that the LEA EP finally capitulated and diagnosed dyslexia to keep me happy????

 

Anyway that is off the point. But I am really annoyed by some of the knee jerk comments made. :wallbash:

 

As his parent I do have a right to ask questions and be given answers. I wasn't trying to force my way in anywhere. I was invited. The school have now refused my entry. It maybe that if I saw the group that I might ask questions. Do none of you ask questions?? Equally I might find it a wonderful experience - but I shall never know.

 

I feel the school have used this as an excuse to keep me out as we are in the Statementing process again - not my idea - the LEA wanted to re-assess not me.

 

I have recently been visiting other schools and have been taken to see the classrooms, resource rooms, dinnerhalls, autism units, therapy sessions etc with no problems.

 

I have a perfectly fine relationship with the SALT and OT. BUT in the tribunal papers the LEA said the OT would deliver a "sensory integration programme". I have asked the OT about this and she has written to me saying she is not qualified to do so. Would I be intimidating the LEA/OT to ask them about that?? Or do I just let that go and they don't provide a service that is a need.

 

The LEA still have not responded to my complaint about non-compliance. That is illegal. Are they intimidated too?? If they have complied why don't they just prove it??

 

I'm sorry, although I would like to think I have such powers of intimidation that Superman would wet his pants, I don't think that is true. :rolleyes:

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Hi sally

 

I can understand you want to see your son 'in action' and see what the TA does but I can also understand the TA's viewpoint. For performance management I have to observe TAs and provide feedback to them and although I work hard to make them feel at ease they can easily feel intimidated. Part of this is (I think) that they take their roles very seriously and want to be seen to be doing their best for the children and often they don't have loads of qualifications.

 

What you could do is ask for his language group targets - in our LA the SLTs provide them and also ask for any plans so you can see what activities he does. The school SLTs usually work closely with TAs and should be able to give you an idea of what happens. In my experience being in a small group with an adult playing games and talking about your 'news' has worked wonders for most children. I can understand the worries that the group dynamics might be changed with a parent present and you may see something that is not typical which may mislead you.

 

I think I might be inclined to get the information from the SLT & the plans targets etc and then try to get a feel for what goes on. It might also be worth investing some time building up a relationship with the TA don't know if you've tried and been rebuffed but it might pay dividends. They may eventually feel more comfortable with you in a session.

 

Hope this helps to see the 'inside' view. :D

A

 

ps hope this makes sense = was up all night!

 

 

You may well be right. It just seemed strange to be invited, and then refused.

And I have requested targets during the last two years and none have materialised.

So I am not someone who SUDDENLY gets intimidating. I have waited two years. What I would say is that I am very persistent. If they are not doing what they should I will continue to ensure they do fulfill their requirements. Sometimes that is what it takes.

If everyone is doing what they should be, then there is no need to be defensive or feel intimidated. It is only when someone is not doing what they should that they begin to feel intimidated.

 

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Hi, I work with children and some have autism and I have often used video to capture the children doing different things and edited it with music etc so the parents can see during reviews-so may be something like that could be done if the SALT thinks you need to observe?????????

 

Now that is a good idea.

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I think if they allowing the SALT to go why would they be hiding anything?

If it were my child in the group and other parents came to view the group I wouldnt be happy,NT or other!There are very strict rules nowdays about when parents can come into the school and if they feel it will be disruptive then you should respect that even if it is difficult.

 

Has the SALT said what would be the purpose of you going?Surely the SALT can make better conclusion than you and wont make a difference if you there or not.

Also just to add,I am sure not all TA's are inexperienced!

Edited by justine1

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But I am really annoyed by some of the knee jerk comments made. :wallbash:

You asked in your opening post for opinions. As far as I can see, that is what you got.

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But I am really annoyed by some of the knee jerk comments made. :wallbash:

 

But in your first post, didn't you ask for "opinions?"

 

~ Mel ~

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I'm sorry, although I would like to think I have such powers of intimidation that Superman would wet his pants, I don't think that is true. :rolleyes:

 

Probably not, but i'm guessing the word 'intimidated' probably masks a multitude of responses in the nicest way the school can possibly say it.

Again, Sally, you've done exactly what you always do - taken the responses you 'like' and run with them and ignored everything else that's been said and/or got angry/defensive or (passive) aggressive about it. I can, with the best will in the world, understand why people at the school might be reluctant to engage with you.

You said somewhere about the paed finally diagnosing dyspraxia and that 'proving' something. I'm certainly not saying that diagnosis is incorrect - I couldn't possibly know - but I do believe that professionals will chuck in the towel sometimes when faced with an 'immovable object' purely and simply because to not do so is a huge drain on resources they could be using elsewhere with people who are prepared to listen to their advice. Generally, i think that happens more when someone has gone off and bought a diagnosis through private consultation, but i guess like most people professionals do just get tired of banging their heads against a brick wall sometimes. As i say, not saying that's what's happened here, but i would say that 'concrete thinking' and 'brick walls' aren't exactly mutually exclusive. And regardless of dyslexia, being right about one thing doesn't make somebody right about everything else - yopu asked people what they thought, they told you, but it won'y make a blind bit of difference to what you do next...

My money is on you going in to the school Monday and offering to lend them a cam-corder so they can film the social group for you. I also think you'll see that as a 'fair compromise' and you'll be even angrier/more aggressive if they refuse.

 

And why do you assume that the responses you don't like are 'knee jerk' reactions? That does a huge injustice to all of those people who have given you considered feedback. You may not have liked it, but it doesn't mean it's 'wrong' or knee-jerk, it's just not what you wanted to hear.

 

L&P

 

BD :D

 

Oh PS: You said, 'it is only when people aren't doing what they should that they start to feel intimidated'... but that's based on your subjective view of what they SHOULD be doing. If you want to tell a school how it should be run you should go out, get qualified and work your way up to being a head teacher. The simple fact is that the HT has an entire school of pupils to consider and an entire school's worth of parents to consider. That's not saying that the HT is getting it 'right' - I couldn't possibly know - but from what you post on forum I get the impression that that wider view is one you either just don't want to consider or are, for whatever reason, unable to consider.

 

 

Edited by baddad

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Let me rephrase my 'knee-jerk' response. I used to be Chair of Governors at my son's school. I do not think it's appropriate for any parent to come in and observe any lessons.

 

The other thing is that TAs are not paid enough to take grief from parents. HTs, SENCOs and LA bods are. As a governor I would expect schools to shield a TA from a stressful situation (duty of care).

 

You may be right in every regard but that is completely out of the hands of a TA who is delivering a programme and trying to help your son.

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I think if they allowing the SALT to go why would they be hiding anything?

If it were my child in the group and other parents came to view the group I wouldnt be happy,NT or other!There are very strict rules nowdays about when parents can come into the school and if they feel it will be disruptive then you should respect that even if it is difficult.

 

Has the SALT said what would be the purpose of you going?Surely the SALT can make better conclusion than you and wont make a difference if you there or not.

Also just to add,I am sure not all TA's are inexperienced!

 

I think it would have been better if the SALT had not invited me without checking with school first. But as she is the most experienced SALT within our LEA dealing specifically with SEN children, then I presume she knew what she was doing by asking me to go into the group with her in the first place.

The SALT is going into the group because it is part of her remit of social use of language and social interaction. She needs to see my son and give advice to the group.

I presume the purpose of seeing what they do is so that I can do it at home. Presently, although I have asked, I am getting no information or advice on what to do at home. He gets no homework, and I have asked for over 2 years for school to let me know what the targets are in the 'social group' and the 'emotional recognition programme', and how they are teaching them so that I can reinforce them at home. I have heard nothing. So I can either stop asking and receive nothing. That means I have no idea of what is being taught, if it is effective, if my son is learning these skills and making progress. Therefore it cannot be monitored. And his Statement says that these skills should be taught in explicit therapy groups and then generalised into other settings including the Playground. If I don't know what is going on in the groups, it means I also have no idea if those skills are being generalised into the playground. But I have again asked for details of skills being generalised into the playground. And have again received no reply in 2 years. I have asked once than once. I have put it in writing.

 

For a child to be properly supported and receive the right level of therapy input to make progress you need a baseline. Then you wait and see if that level of input works. If it doesn't you increase it. That is what happens with School Action - School Action Plus etc. The same thing should happen in all the areas of need. But if I cannot get any information, then I have no idea of progress. All I can do is prove I have requested it and have been given nothing at all. The school SHOULD be able to give me this information. They are supposed to be teaching these skills, generalising them and monitoring the outcomes. So why is the school not producing it?

 

The school has let me observe the Learn to Read Programme which is also a small group of 5 children run by a TA.

And it was the head who has said that the TA might feel intimidated because "this is a small group of 6 children that is not run by a teacher but by a lone TA."

 

I know that there are lots of very experienced TAs. But I also question whether the children with the most needs should be spending so much of their educational time with a TA which is the least qualified member of staff.

 

My son has made progress with weekly SALT input from a SALT and he did not make that same progress with the same level of input from a TA. That is proven progress on paper. In some areas he is now within average or even advanced. In other areas he is worse than when last assessed, or still severe, or even worse than severe. But what that does prove is 'potential to progress significantly into the average and above range'.

 

So it is all about a graduated approach. But to increase the support you need a base line and monitoring of that. I don't have that as yet. That could be given to me without me going into the therapy group. But it hasnt been provided to date. And as I've already said. I did not ask to observe the group. The SALT invited me.

 

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Probably not, but i'm guessing the word 'intimidated' probably masks a multitude of responses in the nicest way the school can possibly say it.

Again, Sally, you've done exactly what you always do - taken the responses you 'like' and run with them and ignored everything else that's been said and/or got angry/defensive or (passive) aggressive about it. I can, with the best will in the world, understand why people at the school might be reluctant to engage with you.

You said somewhere about the paed finally diagnosing dyspraxia and that 'proving' something. I'm certainly not saying that diagnosis is incorrect - I couldn't possibly know - but I do believe that professionals will chuck in the towel sometimes when faced with an 'immovable object' purely and simply because to not do so is a huge drain on resources they could be using elsewhere with people who are prepared to listen to their advice. Generally, i think that happens more when someone has gone off and bought a diagnosis through private consultation, but i guess like most people professionals do just get tired of banging their heads against a brick wall sometimes. As i say, not saying that's what's happened here, but i would say that 'concrete thinking' and 'brick walls' aren't exactly mutually exclusive. And regardless of dyslexia, being right about one thing doesn't make somebody right about everything else - yopu asked people what they thought, they told you, but it won'y make a blind bit of difference to what you do next...

My money is on you going in to the school Monday and offering to lend them a cam-corder so they can film the social group for you. I also think you'll see that as a 'fair compromise' and you'll be even angrier/more aggressive if they refuse.

 

And why do you assume that the responses you don't like are 'knee jerk' reactions? That does a huge injustice to all of those people who have given you considered feedback. You may not have liked it, but it doesn't mean it's 'wrong' or knee-jerk, it's just not what you wanted to hear.

 

L&P

 

BD :D

 

Oh PS: You said, 'it is only when people aren't doing what they should that they start to feel intimidated'... but that's based on your subjective view of what they SHOULD be doing. If you want to tell a school how it should be run you should go out, get qualified and work your way up to being a head teacher. The simple fact is that the HT has an entire school of pupils to consider and an entire school's worth of parents to consider. That's not saying that the HT is getting it 'right' - I couldn't possibly know - but from what you post on forum I get the impression that that wider view is one you either just don't want to consider or are, for whatever reason, unable to consider.

 

 

No I am not going to buy a cam corder. You have made your judgements on me eventhough you profess not to make judgements. You have decided I am intimidating eventhough the headmaster said the TA might feel intimidated. That might be how the TA would feel. But that does not mean I have intimidated her. Those are two different things.

 

I am simply following the SEN process BD. If I had just not done anything my son would still be in a mainstream only primary school. My son is not low cognitive ability. He is 9.3 months old and cannot read or write. As his parent my aim is for him to be able to live and work independently as an adult.

 

And I don't agree that I pushed for a diagnosis of dyslexia. I think I, like most parents in this situation, dread to receive any further diagnosis of anything ontop of autism. All I expected from school was for him to make progress, and when he did not for them to look at it to determine why. That is reasonable. That has not happened. And the Paediatrician (who I presume is qualified enough for you to consider her opinion), also said that his current school is good for children with autism, but not with learning difficulties. The school were denying he had learning difficulties. His diagnosis includes "learning difficulties" in it.

 

If things are turning out as I expected could you even consider the possibility that I have been right, or would your world explode.

 

I did not get a private report to say what I wanted. I have asked you before, please give me the telephone number of this professional you repeatedly quote. My professional SALT in her opinion said that his current school could meet his needs at that time. And to a large extent his SALT needs have been met. But maybe YOU don't want to hear that. Because that goes against your opinion of me and any professional who does not agree with your concrete opinion.

 

The private EP said that his current school should determine if he had dyslexia, and that they should monitor his progress. That is a reasonable request. They did not do either of those.

 

I have had numerous issues of non-compliance with the school. On each occasion the LEA has then provided what the school were not providing. The Statement is very clear. The LEA gave in because the x, y and z in the Statement was not being provided. That is illegal. They didn't cave in because I intimidated them. They provided it because otherwise a judicial review would tell them to provide it anyway because it is in black and white print.

 

At Tribunal the LEA argued that the OT WOULD provide a sensory integration programme. The OT has now (after 2 years) finally written to me to confirm she cannot deliver that because she is not qualified. So the LEA either lied, or failed to produce an OT to provide the therapy he is supposed to get. BD do you seem not to understand that a Statement is a legal document and that what it contains has to be provided. If the LEA did not want to provide what it contains, then they should have produced their evidence at tribunal. But they agreed with all our findings.

 

Is the above starting to form a different picture in your mind. Am I intimidating, or are they not doing what they should be doing?

 

It isn't a case of taking what I like and running with it. It appears that some posters have not read or understood what I am posting about. They have fixed on a comment about a TA feeling intimidated and have pasted that onto my personality. That is not what I am. If it was then I believe it would not be taking years and years to get to the stage I am at now. And if a parent asking for the Statement to be fulfilled is intimidating, then I think you are looking in the wrong dictionary. I would agree I am persistent. And I am only persistent when I have good cause and evidence to be so.

 

Let me give you another very small example. My son has to choose every day what he has for lunch. Making choices is supposed to be a target he has met. Due to previous episodes of vomitting I give my son toast in the morning for breakfast rather than cereal. His TA has requested that he came into school with a sandwich because he was complaining of feeling hungry. So I do that. Then for dinner my son keeps choosing 'sandwich'. I have told school that I want him to have a proper dinner otherwise he is having three bread based meals a day, which I don't think is particularly healthy. The TA has written back saying "your son chooses a sandwich everyday because he cannot choose any of the other food because he does not know what it is like". So you tell me. Has my son learnt how to make choices?? Can you think of anything school could do to help him??? Yes, take a photo of the dinner. Have they done it? NO. So what do I do. This is only a very small thing. But he obviously cannot make choices. And he has recently been referred to clinical psychology because he threatened to stab himself because he could not choose between two options. Initially I refused a referal. It is another thing on the file. And I feel it is unnecessary. He needs to be taught how to choose.

 

But back to the Social Group - please read again - I was not the one who asked to go in. I was invited by the senior SEN SALT within our LEA, who I presume has invited other parents into similar groups as I don't think this is the first time in the whole of her career that she has suggested it. I am not trying to force my way in with a cam corder to record it. TBH the school is doing a very good job of hanging themselves, and I would probably do better at this stage to just leave them to get on with it. I have asked nicely for targets to be given to me and I have waited 2 years. That is patience not intimidation. But even asking for those targets seems to cause offence. That says alot about the schools attitude. But children with an ASD do have problems with generalisation. So it is sensible to generalise skills learnt in school into the home environment. How can I do that if no-one will give me that information? BD please tell me?

 

I can accept what the Head has said about this group. As already said I haven't asked to go in. When I asked for opinions it was because I did not understand why an experienced SALT would suggest it, and then school refuse it. It appeared to me that school were very defensive. Probably because they have had to face the fact that they did not recognise my son had dyslexia. Or even worse, they did recognise it and did nothing about it. The SEN code of practice does say that EVERY need should be identified. BD do you think it would have been better to continue without a diagnosis? My son has a reading age of 4.9 years. Would you be happy with that if it was your son and with the school saying he was making good progress.

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No I am not going to buy a cam corder. You have made your judgements on me eventhough you profess not to make judgements. You have decided I am intimidating eventhough the headmaster said the TA might feel intimidated. That might be how the TA would feel. But that does not mean I have intimidated her. Those are two different things.

 

Of course i make judgements - everyone makes judgements! You've made several 'judgements' about me. I have sometimes in the past said I'm not being 'judgemental' about specific situations, but of course these are two different things. My impressions of you are based on what you post all over the forum - not just on this one specific post. I'm sure you (and many others) have your own 'impressions' about me based on my posts - certainly many people have given me the impression that they have impressions over the years, and that to me seems perfectly natch. The point I was making about 'intimidating' was not that you 'intimidate' - just that that's probably the nicest word the HT can get away with. Think 'exasperate', 'annoy', 'enrage' - they're certainly the kind of feelings I get towards some parents, and are exactly the kind of reasons why, despite loving working with kids, having years of experience and being very well qualified I'd never take on a teaching role or even a TA's role. I could work with exasperating kids all day every day - but I'd find not 'expressing myself honestly' to parents completey unmanagable.

 

As his parent my aim is for him to be able to live and work independently as an adult.

 

And that's different from every other parent how? But just because you are aiming for something doesn't necessarily mean your aim is true or even that you've got a firm grasp on the target or know what ammo to use. All over the planet parent's are ruining children's lives while being absolutely convinced they're doing the right thing. I'm not saying you fall into that category - I'm not 'judging' you - but i do think you're so convinced of your own infallibility that it's a moot point.

 

And I don't agree that I pushed for a diagnosis of dyslexia. I think I, like most parents in this situation, dread to receive any further diagnosis of anything ontop of autism. All I expected from school was for him to make progress, and when he did not for them to look at it to determine why. That is reasonable. That has not happened. And the Paediatrician (who I presume is qualified enough for you to consider her opinion), also said that his current school is good for children with autism, but not with learning difficulties. The school were denying he had learning difficulties. His diagnosis includes "learning difficulties" in it.

 

I never said you did push for a dx of dyslexia. I just said that when someone comes up against an immovable object they will often give up on trying to move it. My impression is that you are an immovable object. I also said that it is irrelevant anyway - that regardless of how 'right' someone might be about one thing it doesn't make them right about everything. (Unless you are me of course - I am right about everything and i've got a letter from my Doctor to prove it... Okay it cost me an arm and a leg and several years of searching to find the right doctor, but it is in writing so it MUST be true...... the point I'm making there is that in these situations, as i've pointed out many times in the past elsewhere on the forum, if 50 professionals tell someone what they don't want to hear while one tells them what they do want to hear then almost invariably, regardless of the 'logic' or any other factors, that will be interpreted as fifty 'wrong' opinions and one 'right' one.)

 

If things are turning out as I expected could you even consider the possibility that I have been right, or would your world explode.

 

No, my world wouldn't explode. And I don't think that you being 'wrong' or 'right' about any aspect of your child's development implies or precludes the possibility of being 'wrong' or 'right' about other aspects of your child's development. An Idiot may make many right decisions purely on the basis of luck or a multitude of other reasons. A wise man can make many 'wrong' decisions on the basis of badluck or for a multitude of other reasons. Would your world explode to accept that sometimes you could be wrong? (assuming of course you haven't got a letter from the same doctor I visited?)

 

I did not get a private report to say what I wanted. I have asked you before, please give me the telephone number of this professional you repeatedly quote. My professional SALT in her opinion said that his current school could meet his needs at that time. And to a large extent his SALT needs have been met. But maybe YOU don't want to hear that. Because that goes against your opinion of me and any professional who does not agree with your concrete opinion.

 

Why do you need a number from me? You appear to own your own S&LT? I wouldn't have a number for such a professional because I wouldn't consult one (all that above about a letter from my doctor was a blatent lie! :o ) I don't have any concrete opinions you or your professional advisors - just some 'impressions' about you. Also, while not judging your personal S&LT in any way (because I wouldn't possibly know) I think there are huge numbers of extremely well qualified idiots out there - something you seem to agree with from your posts about the school staff. One man's 'expert witness' is another man's 'idiot'. I'm very pleased that all of your son's S&LT needs are being met, but perhaps that's where the S&LT's input should begin and end? I don't think teachers, and TA's and dinner ladies and... etc etc... should make diagnoses and i don't think S&LT's should direct school policies.

 

The private EP said that his current school should determine if he had dyslexia, and that they should monitor his progress. That is a reasonable request. They did not do either of those.

 

What did the school's EP say? What did he/she reasonably request you do? See the problem here?

 

I have had numerous issues of non-compliance with the school. On each occasion the LEA has then provided what the school were not providing. The Statement is very clear. The LEA gave in because the x, y and z in the Statement was not being provided. That is illegal. They didn't cave in because I intimidated them. They provided it because otherwise a judicial review would tell them to provide it anyway because it is in black and white print.

 

At Tribunal the LEA argued that the OT WOULD provide a sensory integration programme. The OT has now (after 2 years) finally written to me to confirm she cannot deliver that because she is not qualified. So the LEA either lied, or failed to produce an OT to provide the therapy he is supposed to get. BD do you seem not to understand that a Statement is a legal document and that what it contains has to be provided. If the LEA did not want to provide what it contains, then they should have produced their evidence at tribunal. But they agreed with all our findings.

But how can they provide it without the resources? This is an old, old argument that was settled years ago with something called the 'Hampshire ruling' or some such. But it's all a moot point anyway and has nothing to do with your post. Your post was specifically about the school not letting you attend your son's social group'. People answered that, and you went off on one about 'knee jerk reactions' etc. If it says in your son's statement 'However unreasonable and however much it goes against school policy Mrs X should be allowed to attend her son's social group' then fill your boots - but that aside, just get over yourself and have the good grace to accept - even if not what you wanted to hear - the opinions of those who felt the school was right and took the trouble to tell you so.

 

Is the above starting to form a different picture in your mind. Am I intimidating, or are they not doing what they should be doing?

 

Not really. Depends what they mean by 'intimidating'. Don't know.

 

It isn't a case of taking what I like and running with it. It appears that some posters have not read or understood what I am posting about. They have fixed on a comment about a TA feeling intimidated and have pasted that onto my personality. That is not what I am. If it was then I believe it would not be taking years and years to get to the stage I am at now. And if a parent asking for the Statement to be fulfilled is intimidating, then I think you are looking in the wrong dictionary. I would agree I am persistent. And I am only persistent when I have good cause and evidence to be so.

 

Please desist.

 

Let me give you another very small example. My son has to choose every day what he has for lunch. Making choices is supposed to be a target he has met. Due to previous episodes of vomitting I give my son toast in the morning for breakfast rather than cereal. His TA has requested that he came into school with a sandwich because he was complaining of feeling hungry. So I do that. Then for dinner my son keeps choosing 'sandwich'. I have told school that I want him to have a proper dinner otherwise he is having three bread based meals a day, which I don't think is particularly healthy. The TA has written back saying "your son chooses a sandwich everyday because he cannot choose any of the other food because he does not know what it is like". So you tell me. Has my son learnt how to make choices?? Can you think of anything school could do to help him??? Yes, take a photo of the dinner. Have they done it? NO. So what do I do. This is only a very small thing. But he obviously cannot make choices. And he has recently been referred to clinical psychology because he threatened to stab himself because he could not choose between two options. Initially I refused a referal. It is another thing on the file. And I feel it is unnecessary. He needs to be taught how to choose.

 

So you've chosen to give your son toast in the morning, and a bread based meal in the evening and it is the school's responsibily to make sure he eats his 5 veg a day while he's there? :wacko:

 

He theatened to stab himslef because he couldn't choose? Why not give him a choice between two knives - he'd never be able to make a decision about which one to stab himself with and problem solved! If he needs to be taught to choose - teach him! Offer him two biscuits - one you know he likes and one you know he doesn't? Can he choose? Offer him a day doing his favourite thing or a day doing something he hates - Can he chose? Perhaps he chooses the sandwich because he likes sandwiches or because he doesn't like school dinners. Tell the school to take the sandwich out of the equation - he chooses between two plated meals? Let me guess- he then won't eat anything and it's the school's duty to ensure he eats. :rolleyes:

 

Sorry, got to go shopping and can't really be fagged anyway, as it's a pointless exercise.

 

OH: No - I wouldn't be happy if my son had a reading age of 4.9 years if it was clear that he could have a higher reading age. If he was achieving what he could achieve, i would accept it. If he wasn't, I'd do some reading with him at home to help him, record the advances and then query the school about it.

 

L&P

 

BD :D

Edited by Kathryn

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I am reading at home with my son.

I am working on choices with him.

And your response to offer two different biscuits to teach 'choice' to a child threatening to self harm is just silly.

He supposedly met his 'choices' target and they are not working on it in school anymore. I think it is sensible to question whether a target has been met when it is not being demonstrated? And yes I am working on it.

I pay for 'school meals' not sandwiches. I can provide a sandwich lunch myself which is much cheaper. I provide toast to help at the school end with any possible vomitting. He has a snack mid morning (school asked for sandwich). If he chooses a sandwich at dinnertime then I only have the evening meal to provide everything else. I have asked school if he can take a piece of fruit. But they think he would find the 'sticky fingers' difficult to cope with during playtime That I understand as he has sensory issues. And he won't go to the toilet to wash his hands on his own because the last time he went two other boys from the school attempted to kick the door down whilst he was inside the cubicle. A dinner lady found my son hiding and crying behind a bush in the playground.

Those boys, and their parents were called into school by the Head because of the damage they made. Not because I pursued it. I took the stance that it probably was not 'personal' against my son and did nothing. He now uses a 'special' toilet which an adult has to take him to because he has not got over that fear caused by the original incident yet.

 

Regarding Dyslexia.

I raised it as a concern in 2006 because we have dyslexia/dyscalculia in our family.

The autism out reach teacher asked his teacher to complete some questionnaire about it in 2007.

Six months later the questionnaire had 'disappeared' and the AOT did not take it further.

The LEA EP's letter to me in 2007 states that as my son is having persistent difficulties acquiring literacy skills that she is recommending a reading programme.

He apparently did not receive that reading programme and I didn't know that because I was "leaving school to get on with things". The EP department will not tell me why he did not receive it.

Then my son transferred to his ER school.

I wrote to the EP asking for her to brief the new EP so that we would 'hit the ground running'.

That did not happen.

The very same reading programme was recommended AGAIN 15 months later by the same EP who had transferred to the ER school.

His 2009 statement says he needs appropriate professional input to identify if he has dyslexia and to identify how to move his skills on. That did not happen during the whole year. I had let school/EP service to get on with the Statement.

At the annual review I asked if they felt he had dyslexia and the EP said she had not seen him at all.

At the annual review 2010 the LEA EP says in her report my son NOW needs a period of appropriate teaching to identify if he has dyslexia and to identify how to move his skills on.

That was already in the Statement in 2009 and was not fulfilled.

It is the same EP that recommended the reading programme in 2007 and the same EP recommending the same reading programme in 2010.

That is when I made my complaint. And I have not been going on and on about it because for two years school have told me he is making good progress and I believed them and let them get on with it. But when I asked for evidence of it they cannot provide it.

 

I sensibly took my son to the Head of an independent dyslexia specific school that our own LEA uses, not some crackpot. He said my son is severely dyslexic and needs specialist teaching.

 

And just 'reading' to my son is not going to be enough. I've already been doing that for years. I've been doing alot more than that. But that would be a whole other post.

 

I'm sorry this situation is so boring for you. It is boring for me. It would be nice to do something else.

 

My aim for him to independent is not different to anyone elses. But a child with autism who cannot read or write is not going to have many options is he?? And although the 'cost' of professional input is substantial, the 'cost' of not providing it is even more in terms of lifelong benefits and living support costs.

 

We have been through this process already for my sister. We finally found a job she could hold down. She finally moved into her own flat age 40+. I know how hard it is. I know what I have to do to get him to that place. But I cannot do it on my own. I am doing everything that I can. I would have had more time to devote to the things I want to do with my family if the LEA had not decided to re-assess. Now I'm back in the SEN process again with all the time and effort that requires.

 

I asked for evidence of your 'professional' that doles out reports written to meet what parents want. I've not come across one in my circle of friends so far. Just wondered where you had come across it. Yes there are idiots out there, but it usually takes one to know one.

 

And I do appreciate how hard it is for schools. But the bottom line is that some childrens needs cannot be met in mainstream school. There are a fair number of those children whose parents are on this forum. But often proving that is a long journey. And it does strain the parent/school relationship.

 

My daughter goes to the original primary school. I am happy with that school. My daughter is doing really well. The secondary school over the road is brilliant, and I would love them both to be able to go there. But that is not a realistic option.

 

My son is capable of alot more. In some areas he is advanced. So that shows he has potential. In other areas he is less than 1st percentile. That is just fact.

 

The only way in which I am an immoveable object is when my son is not making progress and I ask why that is and what they suggest doing. That is a sensible request and the only other option is burying my head in the sand.

 

Yes the original post was about being refused by the school to observe a group I had been invited to attend by the SALT. The knee jerk reactions referred to are the assumptions that "I" was intimidating. As you say, you don't know me. But that seemed to be the focus of all the answers, that I was intimidating and should address that. That wasn't what the Head said and that wasn't my question. Some people made some very valid points which are duly being considered.

 

 

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Let me rephrase my 'knee-jerk' response. I used to be Chair of Governors at my son's school. I do not think it's appropriate for any parent to come in and observe any lessons.

 

The other thing is that TAs are not paid enough to take grief from parents. HTs, SENCOs and LA bods are. As a governor I would expect schools to shield a TA from a stressful situation (duty of care).

 

You may be right in every regard but that is completely out of the hands of a TA who is delivering a programme and trying to help your son.

 

I agree with what you are saying. But are you saying them about me?

I have not given 'grief' to anyone in school. School have reduced me to tears once.

 

It may not be appropriate or fair for parents to observe. But I was invited. Why was I invited by an experienced SALT and then refused? I will speak with the SALT about it. But she surely must have done that before to have suggested it.

 

Fair point, Head is protecting TA from a stressful situation.

 

And remember I didn't ask to go in.

 

I am now back to square one, where I have no idea of targets (none provided in 2 years), so I cannot reinforce it at home. Maybe I should put the request to know what the targets are in writing. But school probably will interpret that as intimidating.

 

Seems I can't win.

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Hi Sally

 

I've broken down your post to make my response. I multi-quoted over the board limit so have cut and paste to get it back down to size. Apologies if I've messed up your original post in doing this.

 

I think it would have been better if the SALT had not invited me without checking with school first. But as she is the most experienced SALT within our LEA dealing specifically with SEN children, then I presume she knew what she was doing by asking me to go into the group with her in the first place. The SALT is going into the group because it is part of her remit of social use of language and social interaction. She needs to see my son and give advice to the group. I presume the purpose of seeing what they do is so that I can do it at home.

 

I would check on that. It seems to me they wanted to show you that the social skills group is happening.

 

Presently, although I have asked, I am getting no information or advice on what to do at home. He gets no homework, and I have asked for over 2 years for school to let me know what the targets are in the 'social group' and the 'emotional recognition programme', and how they are teaching them so that I can reinforce them at home. I have heard nothing. So I can either stop asking and receive nothing. That means I have no idea of what is being taught, if it is effective, if my son is learning these skills and making progress. Therefore it cannot be monitored.

 

You would get the advice you're seeking from attending a social skills parent workshop. Sometimes these are run by the PCT but often it's a voluntary sector group. I don't see how you can expect individual tutoring on what to do. Social skills are not really part of the National Curriculum, it's an add-on that schools do because they recognise the benefits. I'm betting that teaching parents was not part of the skills programme either, however ridiculous that may seem. If you're desperate to know what it's about borrow a book from the library. You're going to have to let monitoring go too, as there is no formal mechanism for monitoring something like this other than asking has he been to the social skills group, which he has. Homework is a completely separate issue.

 

And his Statement says that these skills should be taught in explicit therapy groups and then generalised into other settings including the Playground. If I don't know what is going on in the groups, it means I also have no idea if those skills are being generalised into the playground. But I have again asked for details of skills being generalised into the playground. And have again received no reply in 2 years. I have asked once than once. I have put it in writing. For a child to be properly supported and receive the right level of therapy input to make progress you need a baseline. Then you wait and see if that level of input works. If it doesn't you increase it.

 

Except if you knew what the skills were you would be able to observe your son acquiring them and using (generalising) them in the home setting. The mechanism for asking about progress is at the annual review meeting. The NHS doesn't look at providing support in the way you expect at all. They have to prove 'outcomes' - that the use of the therapist's time has produced some positive gain. That's why the children with the severest impairments get no therapy, because the time invested could be used somewhere to make a lifechanging difference. It's the main challenge that faces the NHS - how to use resources to get the greatest number of improvements.

 

That is what happens with School Action - School Action Plus etc. The same thing should happen in all the areas of need. But if I cannot get any information, then I have no idea of progress. All I can do is prove I have requested it and have been given nothing at all. The school SHOULD be able to give me this information. They are supposed to be teaching these skills, generalising them and monitoring the outcomes. So why is the school not producing it?

 

Only in respect of educational needs. It's taken parents groups like mine about 10 years to get SLT recognised as educational, but social skills are not really part of the curriculum. Besides an ASD diagnosis includes social skills deficits that won't be addressed by therapy, they'll still be there but less apparent.

 

The school has let me observe the Learn to Read Programme which is also a small group of 5 children run by a TA.

And it was the head who has said that the TA might feel intimidated because "this is a small group of 6 children that is not run by a teacher but by a lone TA."

 

That was very generous of them. I would not expect them to allow you in at all.

 

I know that there are lots of very experienced TAs. But I also question whether the children with the most needs should be spending so much of their educational time with a TA which is the least qualified member of staff. My son has made progress with weekly SALT input from a SALT and he did not make that same progress with the same level of input from a TA. That is proven progress on paper. In some areas he is now within average or even advanced. In other areas he is worse than when last assessed, or still severe, or even worse than severe. But what that does prove is 'potential to progress significantly into the average and above range'.

 

So it is all about a graduated approach. But to increase the support you need a base line and monitoring of that. I don't have that as yet. That could be given to me without me going into the therapy group. But it hasnt been provided to date. And as I've already said. I did not ask to observe the group. The SALT invited me.

 

There is no requirement to provide documentary evidence of anything except at the annual review. There isn't even a legal requirement to have an IEP as such, beyond the normal individual pupil targets. I get the sense that you are concentrating solely on what's in the audit trail of paperwork. You can add to and augment the work the school are doing without knowing exactly what it is by becoming an informed parent. All the educational research shows that the greatest impact on what children achieve is not down to the school at all, it's what the parents do at home that is the biggest factor, so my advice would be to get off the school's case and get on with stuff at home. It sounds to me that the school is doing the best they can with limited time, resources and staff.

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I agree with what you are saying. But are you saying them about me?

I have not given 'grief' to anyone in school. School have reduced me to tears once.

 

No, Sally, you said the HT used the word 'intimidated'. I think it would help your relationship with the TA if you modified your behaviour to be less 'intimidating', whatever that means.

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I have run social skills groups and I agree that it would affect the group if you were there. There is a also the issue of confidentiality for hte children.

 

However, I did send things home with the children (eg: a brief letter when we did anger management) and gave a lsit of what we had covered for reviews. I also met with a parent to talk through what we had been doing, because she requested it. So I don't see an issue with telling you what areas they are covering.

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Hi Sally,

 

I can see your desperation for your son in your posts and your frustration and I can sympathise with it, really I can. All I'd say is that your lad is still very young, he has years and years of learning ahead of him and even though you feel he isn't achieving his potential right now it doesn't mean that he won't. Could it be that your expectations are just too high right now? Just because he is capable in some areas does not mean he has the same ability in others. My lad is 16, he is gifted in sciences and will probably get A's or even A*'s in all three sciences in his GCSEs two weeks from now. However, he's totally hopeless at English and will more than likely get an F or even a G if he's lucky. I could beat up the school as much as I like for not helping him enough with English or I could just be proud that he's doing so great at Science.

 

Maybe it would be better for you if you could relax a bit and accept that he is doing what he can do at this time and that the school are doing what they can. I'm not wording this well, I know, but you can't fight and fight non-stop, it can't help anyone. When my lad was 9 he couldn't even sit down at a table and write a sentance without screaming the place down and now he's getting A*'s in science. He used to have a scribe doing ALL his writing for him up until last year and now he does all his own writing. His books are a disgrace, torn and ripped and the writing is horrendous but he still gets A*'s in Physics and Chemistry and Biology. Your lad has so much time ahead of him and plenty of time to progress, try and step back and chill if you can, let the teachers do their jobs and rejoice in his successes and you'll be happier. His whole future does not rest on what he does in school at this moment.

 

My son is capable of alot more. In some areas he is advanced. So that shows he has potential. In other areas he is less than 1st percentile. That is just fact.

 

~ Mel ~

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No, Sally, you said the HT used the word 'intimidated'. I think it would help your relationship with the TA if you modified your behaviour to be less 'intimidating', whatever that means.

 

I don't even know who the TA is!

And I haven't intimidated anyone.

 

 

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If the school said from the outset, that they would not provide me with any targets then I would have to look at that. But that is NOT what they are saying. They are saying they will tell me, then they don't. They say they want to work with me to generalise skills at home, and then they don't. They say they will provide homework for him, and then they don't.

 

IEPs record progress, however not all targets can ever be on an IEP because there are just too many.

 

If the Statement says that skills should be taught and generalised and monitored, are you saying that school don't have to do that? And if they are recording and generalising and monitoring that is it a secret that they cannot pass onto the parents?

 

All I can do is go on the Statement. And the LEA/school were part of putting that together. If they were not happy with it they should have changed the wording.

 

For example his Statement says a TA WILL work with my son to generalise skills learnt from the social skills group into the Playground. Even if they could not tell me 'what' skills, (although I still don't see why they can't say what skill it is eg. "joining in") they should be able to tell me that "yes a TA is working with my son during afternoon break" - (for example) because that is what the Statement says. But there is no-one doing that.

 

Maybe this is too much for an ER mainstream school to be doing. I can understand that. But at the tribunal the LEA said this school would fulfill the Statement. I had wanted a different placement that definately would have met all the requirements because they are a special school.

 

 

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Looking at it from the school's POV, academic progress is easy to document - there is a national scale that has been well researched by eminent professors. All they need to do is ensure their staff are well-trained and the judgements they make are consistent with national standards.

 

They then get a statement (which has been negotiated with the LA, above their heads - schools have little influence, believe me) which talks about generalising of social skills. There is no national scale of social skills and they have a parent who is demanding that they demonstrate progress. Not forgetting that social skills deficits are part-and-parcel of ASD so as far as the school is concerned this is akin to asking for progress in listening skills from someone who can't hear. You don't put in more therapy if it isn't working, you look for another way to achieve it.

 

Social skills are a 'soft' outcome, there is no hard and fast way of measuring it, PHDs are written about it. Schools are used to collecting and quantify data and so feel they should be able to devise some kind of scheme, want to instill confidence into the relationship with the parent, do not want to appear unknowledgable and so agree to something which forms part of a legal document saying they must do it. Devising a scale to measure the soft outcomes of social skills groups is research work carried out at a high academic level. Your mainstream primary isn't equipped to do it. It falls completely outside of the job description of teachers, there is no additional funding but as a goodwill gesture they get their TAs supported by the SLT who does have the training.

 

It's all very well to get something into a statement but then you have to police it. There is no remedy in law that I know of for dealing with this one. Failure to comply with the statement? Well they have done the social skills group. Failure to monitor progress? Well they're giving you his educational progress at the annual review. To document progress in other areas they'd have to do an Ed psych reassessment and that costs a lot of money that they won't spend because the parent will haul them over the coals for lack of progress (when lack of progress is part of the diagnosis) and they don't do it for other children. They won't be criticised by a judge for that.

 

So all-in-all I think you have a slightly meaningless clause in your statement. Quite clearly this will put strain on your relationship with the school. So much so that the school is shielding the TAs from you.

 

This is my final post on this. I hope you get it resolved, but I honestly think there has to be some 'give' on your part. It's a battle I've seen many times before. There are lawyers out there that'll take you on, there are support groups out there that will 'empower' you to take it on yourself, but if you came to our parents group we would tell you in a very nice way not to waste your time on this one whilst supporting you in other areas.

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I have run social skills groups and I agree that it would affect the group if you were there. There is a also the issue of confidentiality for hte children.

 

However, I did send things home with the children (eg: a brief letter when we did anger management) and gave a lsit of what we had covered for reviews. I also met with a parent to talk through what we had been doing, because she requested it. So I don't see an issue with telling you what areas they are covering.

 

That is all I would want. As repeatedly said. I never asked to go and observe the group. Then when I was refused I felt "why have they done that?"

 

I think that any group/therapy that is supposed to happen for a 'purpose' to achieve a 'goal' or 'teach a skill' needs to have target written and that the outcome of whether the child has gained that skill or not should be monitored and recorded - otherwise there is no point doing it. My son has had other targets that he has not met and it was agreed to leave that area for the timebeing. I accepted that.

 

If it was a 'youth club' I wouldn't expect there to be any aim other than to have a good time! But this group is supposed to be teaching social skills.

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Let me rephrase my 'knee-jerk' response. I used to be Chair of Governors at my son's school. I do not think it's appropriate for any parent to come in and observe any lessons.

 

 

Really?

 

I find this very strange - but perhaps this comes from living in Sweden where all parents have the legal right to come to school with their child whenever they wish - the school has to provide the parents with lunch as well. It's part of the open relationships between school and home

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Really?

 

I find this very strange - but perhaps this comes from living in Sweden where all parents have the legal right to come to school with their child whenever they wish - the school has to provide the parents with lunch as well. It's part of the open relationships between school and home

 

Yes puffin. I don't think there's anything much to be gained to suddenly have parents there - it upsets the routine and there is confidentiality around which other children have SEN.

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I would like to look at the general principle - should a parent be able to go into school to observe their child?

 

My answer would be yes. Ultimately a parent is responsible for the child. Whilst a school acts in loco parentis, when it comes to SEN/ASD we all know how problematic getting appropriate provision can be. As parents we have to battle local authorities, outreach services and find ourselves at tribunals. As parents of statemented children, we are the ones that have to ensure that the provision written in the statement is met. We have to police the statement.

 

I have personal experience of a local authority giving me misleading and inaccurate statements on several occasions. I know the meagre provision put in place by the autism outreach service for my child is of very poor quality and inappropriate. I know this because I am an expert on my child. That is not to say I am an expert on autism or teaching autistic children. I know this because I sat in on the provision provided by the outreach service, very quietly in the corner, without disturbing the session. The outreach TA engaged my child for three minutes out of twenty in a social communication group of six and at the end of the session stated my child had done really well. He barely interacted or joined in the group at all.The group was organised specifically for my child, and yet the other children were chosen because they have communication difficulties too. It was supposed to be a group of appropriate peers for my child, and yet it was a practically silent group of children. If I had not observed the session, I would not have found these things out.

 

I think what often happens is that the parent is not seen on the same level as the professionals involved. A parent should be on an equal footing to a head, a paed, a SALT etc. Often these services are overstretched, corners are cut and our children do not receive the provision they are entitled to. Who else is going to ensure the child receives appropriate provision?

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you sitting there observing, possibly with arms folded and frown on face. ~ Mel ~

 

Where did that come from?

 

 

Hi Sally

 

I think you may possibly come across on the forum as 'concrete' and forceful because you know the law and you are explaining it (a very concrete subject). However, as baddad himself should know, people cannot be judged by what they type alone.

 

It shouldn't be unreasonable to sit in on the group, at the back as unnoticeable as possible. If the SALT can go in, and presumably OFSTED inspectors would go in at times, I would not be that happy that they were making such a big deal about it. Your son's behaviour may change, but it would still give you an idea of what goes on. Is there another group running that you could sit in on where your son wouldn't be present and therefore wouldn't have any effect on the other children.

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Yes puffin. I don't think there's anything much to be gained to suddenly have parents there - it upsets the routine and there is confidentiality around which other children have SEN.

 

I don't really understand the 'them and us' attitude that seems so common in the UK between schools and parents - personally I find it damaging

 

I don't understand what you mean by confidentiality - I have been into the SEN unit here in Sweden to spend time - probably once each year - have even spent full days out with them and have never been told anything confidential about another child.

 

I don't see what might be 'secret' during the school day anyway it wouldn't be secret from the other children anyway would it? I don't see how I would observe anything confidental more that kids come home and tell their parents about after a normal school day. Many UK schools even invite 'selected' parents into class as 'official' parent helpers that go into class and help with reading - so it confidentiality not an issue for them? Or is it an issue of the school being in control?

 

Personally I think it might help communications - not to mention behaviour if kids know that parents could drop into the school at any time and it fosters a more open relationship if parents are aware of what actually happens in the class

 

DD1 started integrating back into mainstream this academic year at age 13 - so I went for a morning to see what was going on and it was very useful and helped in the discussion of her IEP - there was another parent there as well observing that morning we just kept out of the way - and I didn't learn anything 'confidential'

 

 

Sometimes it is also very important.

DD1 was at one school where the teacher was very physical with the kids and assaulted both DD and another non SEN child in a single morning - I would never have found out about this if another parent who had witnessed it had not called me - I am very grateful that I was able to find out about what was going on and that the school was not able to sweep the whole thing under the carpet by claiming what was going on in the classroom was 'confidential'

Edited by puffin

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I think you have to be extremely careful around SEN and confidentiality issues. Some parents are having a difficult time accepting a recent diagnosis and really do not want their child to be singled out in any way to other parents as having additional needs. We have to keep one eye on Child Protection too as there is a possibility of someone drawing up a list of children who might be easy targets. Abusers are most often someone who is known to the family.

 

My son's special school had an open door policy but there was a growing number of parents who would drop by half an hour before the end of the day and expect to have a full and detailed handover from the TA at the end of every day no matter what else was going on. We had to end it for that and other reasons. However nice it is to know everything about the school day some parents are embattled with what is an adversarial system. As governors we had to listen to TAs saying there were stressed by the parents interupting the work flow and continually trying to catch them out about whether they were following 'the law'. If we hadn't done something about it we'd have lost our skilled and well-trained workforce of TAs and that wouldn't have benefitted the children at all. This was/is an outstanding special school that parents rate very highly indeed.

 

Funnily enough today I am going into a couple of schools to carry out research on improving parent confidence in the SEN system - part of a post-Bercow pathfinder that we're doing.

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