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chris54

Meltdown.

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Just thought I would kick this one off, and feel free to take this anywhere you like.

 

The term Meltdown is frequently used, too often IMO and I am sure means different thing to different people.

 

Its not a term I will readily use because of this.

 

Here's your chance to have your say.

Edited by chris54

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I'm wondering whether it's as 'new' or Disability specific as is sometimes imagined...

I think in the past words like 'hysterical' 'neurotic' 'highly strung' etc might have held the same meaning, and going all the way back to Victorian England whether the term 'an attack of the vapours' might have applied. In fact, you can probably trace it back to the ancient Greek's and right through medieval medicine -where a surfeit of 'Black Bile' might have been indicated(?) In newspeak, the term 'sensory overload' may be the official term these days...

 

[NB: Please note, i am not saying that people who have 'meltdowns' are neurotic or hysterical, i am just stating that in common parlance, and allowing, as I'll expand on below, that the term may be over and inappropriately applied, that the terms may be interrelated]

 

I've ported this over from another thread, but it pretty much expresses my own concerns that the term is overused these days:

 

I also know that absolutely millions of people without either diagnosis claim their tempers are uncontrollable; beat their wives or husbands or kids up, or generally try to dictate/control aspects of other people's lives through aggression, or verbal or physical abuse or even by more subtle means of manipulation like emotional blackmail or 'victimhood' or guilt.

So you don't have to be bi-polar or Aspergers to understand how 'meltdowns' feel - there are millions of people who can appreciate it from both the perspective of 'having' a meltdown and millions who can appreciate it from being on the receiving end of someone elses.

The thing is, though, anyone who happens to have a foul temper and autism can say 'oh, it's not me it's my autism' in the same way that an abusive huisband might say 'Oh, it's not me, it's my jealousy because I love you so much and i'm so scared of losing you' or a child-beating parent can say 'If only you weren't so difficult I wouldn't do it'.

I don't know what a 'meltdown' is, if i'm honest, but I do know that that word - meltdown- is used as a justification by some people to enact behaviours that they would not otherwise get away with. I've also noticed that when autistic children have 'meltdowns' they are often quite specifically directed at 'soft' targets. I've heard some ridiculous parents declaring 'I'm the only one he/she feels safe to let it out on, so he/she saves it up until after school', but, erm, think about it: what's 'spontaneous' and 'uncontrollable' about that?

 

20 years ago, when I first started in care work they used the word 'blow' ('watch out, he's gonna blow'), which, apart from reducing human beings to the level of lugworms (which blow up their own intestines when threatened), had exactly the same conotations. I hated it then, and I hate it now, because while for a very very tiny percentage of the disabled population it may be a real issue (and i'm not making any judgements about any case mentioned in this thread) it is a phrase that has been overused and abused in the same way that 'depression' is applied to feeling down in the dumps, 'Flu' is applied to a summer sniffle and (sadly) AS is rapidly becoming applied to anyone for whom life is anything, for whatever reason, less than a bed of roses.

 

L&P

 

BD :D

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Its not a term I use either but to me it means a complete loss of control, Having worked with children, many with sp needs for over 20 years I have seen this on many occasions, the child [my own included] cannot be reasoned with/talked to during "meltdown" and needs somewhere safe and reassurance that things can and will be sorted out when they have had time to calm down. This does not mean that agressive or violent behaviour gets ignored or forgotten, just that it is dealt with in a calm way when the child has regained control. Thinking about Young, autisitc and stage stuck last night, if you saw it, I think Jonathon was filmed during a "meltdown" and I thought his mum handled it very well bearing in mind she was being filmed at the time.

that's just my opion though, but I thought I would give it as you asked!!

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Total loss of communication and control. Happens about once a year now, but used to be throughout the day when he was small. Various triggers: sensory overload, utter frustration, tiredness, somebody has said something. We used to keep a calm watch over him. No point in attempting to communicate with him. Over the years we've been able to anticipate the triggers and be creative about minimising them and that included taking an uncompromising stance on what was acceptable behaviour. Joint compressions were a fabulous way of restoring calm. Wish someone had told me about them much earlier.

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Joint compressions were a fabulous way of restoring calm. Wish someone had told me about them much earlier.

 

More info please! is this sort of 'massage' related or more like Temple Grandin's pressure-box thingy? Or am i barking up the wrong 'un completely?

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An OT thing - pushing the joints together quite firmly seemed to release some kind of calming sensation. Most of his 'meltdowns' came from sensory overload - he would just keel over entering the school hall, still does to some extent. Reading the 'Out of Sync Child' and then finding some OT gave me a lot of answers. Looking at him closely he looks as if he's made dizzy by some visual experiences. Although he's not got to the point (yet) where I think a trip to Ian Jordan would pay off it's something I've got on our One Day list.

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I'm interested to know what a meltdown is supposed to be because even though I have Asperger Syndrome, I don't think I have ever experienced this.

 

I think the term is increasingly being used to describe a good, old-fashioned tantrum, but apparently there is a difference.

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An uber-tantrum. My other children had tantrums, but you could still maintain communication with them throughout.

Exactly!It can also last much longer than an average tantrum.I would say it varies from person to person,just like a tantrum,some may just cry(like Sam) others may lash out,some just hit/kick things(like Josh),then there are those who will harm themselves i.e head banging(like Dan.)My youngest is just starting to through tantrums and he just starts walking away then he turns to me and shouts something(sounds like "you dont"?????)then carries on going after 5min he is back for a cuddle.

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I'm uncomfortable going into details as JP is an adult & there are privacy issues here - but way, way more than 'losing it' or a 'tantrum'.

 

Sometimes in response to something 'understandable' to an NT, or anyone really - like the time he was robbed.

Sometimes, seemingly, over something trivial - but it's been the last straw for him.

 

Increasingly rare as he matures & develops coping strategies - he's avoided several over the last year by recognising the signs & doing something about it - us noticing he's getting stressed, him telling us he's upset, going to his room to calm down, punching his punchbag etc.

 

I really hope, one day, they'll be history.

Edited by pearl

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I reckon there's a huge difference between a tantrum and a meltdown. There is still control in a tantrum - it's usually an attention-seeking device, a way of getting what they want and being more and more obnoxious until they get it or burn themselves out, but essentially the key is that the child is still in control of what they are doing and could stop if they chose.

 

A meltdown is way, way beyond that. It can begin with a tantrum but if the child pushes it too far and doesn't attempt to regain control it can escalate to a point where they can't bring themselves down - emotional overload of their own doing. But it can be brought on by so many other things, usually a combination of events, sensory input, activity overload or whatever, which obviously will vary depending on the child and/or circumstances.

 

For J (and I believe for many children who experience true meltdowns), the identifying factor is a sort of memory loss in the minutes or seconds leading up to the loss of control and during part of the meltdown itself. Afterwards it can be very difficult to work out exactly what happened because there's a genuine lack of awareness of how events developed.

 

We work with 5-point scales and they have helped J to recognise levels of irritation, leading to anger and rage and (rarely now) meltdown. I'd say we now have about 3-4 proper ones a year but where they once lasted several hours and he'd continue to 'rumble' for days afterwards, they are now blessedly short and he recovers quickly. But anger is still an issue, and unfortunately although he'd gained much more control over the years he's starting to have more flashes of temper as puberty takes hold. This one will run and run, I suspect, though we're contnuing to work on it.

 

BTW, totally agree with the comment about over-use of extreme language to describe everyday feelings eg depression, meltdown etc. Language becomes devalued if it's used inappropriately and it limits true understanding of what those terms actually mean.

 

Karen

x

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I reckon there's a huge difference between a tantrum and a meltdown. There is still control in a tantrum - it's usually an attention-seeking device, a way of getting what they want and being more and more obnoxious until they get it or burn themselves out, but essentially the key is that the child is still in control of what they are doing and could stop if they chose.

 

You give a good example of what I have come across. Meltdown being used to describe the above.

 

To me the term Meltdown means a situating where there is a total system failure that cannot be restored to its previous state without substantial intervention or may never be restorable.

I'm not really sure how you relate that to the human condition, but its a bit more than a tantrum.

Edited by chris54

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Karen you've reminded me that my son's special school were concerned about epilepsy because the absence was so pronounced but we'd already had the tests and everything was normal.

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Really pleased to see throughout this thread that the word 'uncontrollable' hasn't cropped up. That's the assumption that I find scary. In no way meaning to diminish the extremes of the 'meltdown' or the effects on the person having it, it is apparent that coping strategies, interventions, etc etc can all greatly reduce both the frequency and intensity of the 'symptoms' (sorry - the inverted commas indicate a use of potentially inappropriate language because I don't know what else to call it, not 'sarcasm' :unsure: ). I think what also stands out is that emotional maturity (and again that's not 'sarcasm') plays a big part - a wider understanding of the social expectations and the implications of challenging those expectations for the individual. Almost all have indicated an 'improvement with age'.

 

I disagree with Karen T's definition of a 'tantrum' - I don't think they are always attention seeking devices or that children always have control over them (but I accept that can be the case, and hope others will accept that adults are also capable of 'tantrums' enacted more to control, manipulate and attention seek). Children's emotional responses, until they gain wider conceptual understanding, are directly connected to the 'Id', and with no 'super-ego' to offset or negotiate those extreme drives and urges they very much fall into the 'meltdown' category.

 

I noticed above that somebody (got the t-shirt, I think) commented on Jonathon's 'meltdown' on YA&SS, and said that Jonathon's mum handled it well. I do agree with that up to a point, and certainly as far as 'crisis response' goes would say there were few other options she could have taken, but in one sense her response resembled 'pinning' which was once viewed as an appropriate intervention in autism but is now largely regarded as abusive. As I say, in that situation, in that crisis, a totally sensible and necessary response, but not one, i hope, that's practiced at home or in other known environments where just letting fonathon go to another room and calm down would be more beneficial.

 

I also found the description of Jonathon's behaviour as 'sensory overload' frustrating. What I saw was a child reacting to a very, very powerful and extreme negative situation - and an equally extreme 'fight or flight' response that would, under the circumstances and for a child, be relatively usual. He had worked his butt off for four months to bring together a show that he had not only the leading role in but the most creative and artistic input. On the day that all of that was supposed to come together he was presented with the reality that there was every liklihood it would not happen. Molly was saying she would not go on stage, Ben was 'wavering' and writing the whole thing off as a train-wreck, and the 'drama therapist' :rolleyes: ) was predicting 'sensory overload' for other members (but not J himself) of the cast. Erm, exsqueeze me... :whistle: Adding to that, he had spent four months in an environment where he had seen 'meltdowns' accepted as the norm and quite often actually rewarded. Finally - and I'm sorry if anyone finds this 'judgemental' but I'm just saying what i saw - Jonathon's own concerns and perspectives on his mum (episode 3?) and observations of her interactions with others/to camera, suggested to me at least that extreme responses to emotive situations might be something that Jonathon had had modelled for him from a very early age and that were accepted as 'normal'. :unsure: So although 'sensory overload' might be a term that could be reasonably applied to Jonathon's reaction, the circumstances were so extreme that 'sensory overload' would have been a perfectly natural response for any child. The individual response, the way Jonathon 'dealt' with it, might have been less 'natural' (but I'm not wholly sure? :unsure:), but many of the dynamics of that would be cultural and situational rather than internal.

 

Interesting discussion :thumbs: and going back to what I said at the top of this post, really good to see the universal (I think?) agreement that 'meltdowns' do not have to be regular and lifelong compromises to an individual's life and opportunities. :thumbs:

 

L&P

 

BD :D

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I disagree with Karen T's definition of a 'tantrum' - I don't think they are always attention seeking devices or that children always have control over them

I didn't say 'always', said 'usually'. There are always exceptions to the rule, and (I'm reliably informed) only a Sith deals in absolutes :D

 

I personally think that the 'uncontrollable' aspect does have an element of truth where younger children are concerned, and I agree with what you say about age and maturity being part of that. At six or seven years old J absolutely had no control over his anger and temper (in fact he was visibly shocked by it) and it would have been futile to assume he had, but in time and with the right guidance he was able to learn how to control it better. I do think that for some children there is limited ability to control themselves and it can be a very long and difficult journey to a point where they can, and perhaps this is where judgement errors can be made. It's hard for some parents to have the necessarily brutal honesty required to differentiate between what their child genuinely struggles with and when they're swinging the lead, but it's a skill we have to develop if we're to help them thrive. As you have said, disempowering doesn't do them any favours but it's important to recognise when there is real difficulty and provide the necessary support to enable them.

 

I also hate Autism As A Competitive Sport (ie mine's more autistic than yours) - it's utterly pointless other than to the 'can't help it' culture of excusing inappropriate behaviours.

 

Karen

x

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I didn't say 'always', said 'usually'. :D

 

Karen

x

 

Sorry, my italics, not yours, and intended to differentiate rather than imply a direct quote, iykwim! :lol: and i'd been really careful too! :lol:

 

Coming back to kids; I strongly believe that psychology has a huge part to play in all aspects of behaviour, but all of those dynamics (Id, ego, Super-ego) and the external dynamics that impact on them (culture/society/upbringing/parental guidance/role models/experiences etc etc ad infinitum) are all too often swept aside. That's not exclusive to autism or disability by any means, but I do think that those factors are more often ignored - by parents and professionals - when disability issues also exist.

 

L&P

 

BD :D

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Bd, I think it might be helpful when you are talking about Id, ego, superego etc. to explain what you mean, as not everyone understands these terms.

 

Oh gawd, I've just realised I've asked you to go into more detail .... :lol:

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Baddad .... I did say I thought jonathon's mum handled his "meltdown" well what I didn't say was that in the circumstances of being in a theatre with probably many exits and unknown people around I would have probably done exactly what she did. I agree that children should not be "pinned" but I do think that there is a place for holding if that means that the child stays safe. In my own experience both at home and at work there have been situations where I have held/restrained a child [or prevented them from leaving a room] who was either a danger to themselves or to others because they are not in control of their emotions.

I once held a child at work because he was running out of the school gate. He had gone beyond being reasoned with at that moment and just wanted to run. Did I do the right thing? I don't know but at the time I acted instinctively to protect an out of control 7 year old from danger. B)

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Its not a term I use either but to me it means a complete loss of control, Having worked with children, many with sp needs for over 20 years I have seen this on many occasions, the child [my own included] cannot be reasoned with/talked to during "meltdown" and needs somewhere safe and reassurance that things can and will be sorted out when they have had time to calm down. This does not mean that aggressive or violent behaviour gets ignored or forgotten, just that it is dealt with in a calm way when the child has regained control. Thinking about Young, autisitc and stage stuck last night, if you saw it, I think Jonathon was filmed during a "meltdown" and I thought his mum handled it very well bearing in mind she was being filmed at the time.

that's just my opinion though, but I thought I would give it as you asked!!

 

i tend to agree with you.

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for us its ususally a violent reaction,sometimes without warning. he looses all self control for whatever reason and lashes out. when he comes back to earth he is very upset with himself and sometimes can't remember what he did. At home i put him in his room screaming he hates us,i give him 5 mins then go in and talk to him and talk ab out why he can't be violent,then he says i am failure,and is sorry he hit me and he does not really hate me or any other memebers of the family he said it to.If its been at school he is very upset for the best part of the afternoon if it happened in the mroning and we talk through the mistakes he made and suggest strategys for the next time he finds himself loosing it. They are coming less at school,though he does get wound up by bro or annoyed at me . He did boil last week,but he was able to stop himself using violence :wub::whistle: He had ago at me last night,when i swtiched the Wii off to make him go to the toilet.

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Baddad .... I did say I thought jonathon's mum handled his "meltdown" well what I didn't say was that in the circumstances of being in a theatre with probably many exits and unknown people around I would have probably done exactly what she did. I agree that children should not be "pinned" but I do think that there is a place for holding if that means that the child stays safe. In my own experience both at home and at work there have been situations where I have held/restrained a child [or prevented them from leaving a room] who was either a danger to themselves or to others because they are not in control of their emotions.

I once held a child at work because he was running out of the school gate. He had gone beyond being reasoned with at that moment and just wanted to run. Did I do the right thing? I don't know but at the time I acted instinctively to protect an out of control 7 year old from danger. B)

 

HI GTS -

Not sure if you misread some of my post or something or misunderstood it, but i said exactly the same thing(?):

 

I noticed above that somebody (got the t-shirt, I think) commented on Jonathon's 'meltdown' on YA&SS, and said that Jonathon's mum handled it well. I do agree with that up to a point, and certainly as far as 'crisis response' goes would say there were few other options she could have taken, but in one sense her response resembled 'pinning' which was once viewed as an appropriate intervention in autism but is now largely regarded as abusive. As I say, in that situation, in that crisis, a totally sensible and necessary response, but not one, i hope, that's practiced at home or in other known environments where just letting fonathon go to another room and calm down would be more beneficial.

 

:unsure:

 

 

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Thankyou. It comes flooding back to me in all its horrible detail from my uni philosopy course ... *shudders*

 

Have you got a philosophical bent?

 

No, it's just the way these trousers hang...

thankyou and goodnight...

I'll be here all week...

nyada nyada nyada nyaaaa-a-aaa

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HI GTS -

Not sure if you misread some of my post or something or misunderstood it, but i said exactly the same thing(?):

 

 

No Baddad I didn't misread your post but I ran out of time to say what I wanted to say so just thought I would finish off by explaining that in my experience, it isn't always practical to allow children to choose where they go to calm down. B)

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