Where do we stand ... possible in school exclusion

[Alexandra]

really need some advice, My son (12 adhs and aspergers) is in yr 8, about 2 weeks ago

he was bullied by some boys in his yr, he didn't know their names

so not a lot was done, even though they'd tried to provoke a reaction from my son,

they did push him into a metal post and he bruised his leg,he really did well and

didn't react, then yesterday some yr7s were calling him names, he lost it and kicked

one of them, the boys went away but came back and called him Mental and retard

he punched one of them in the stomach. The school phoned me and said they would do all

they could to find the boys but obviously my son would be punished for hurting the boys!!

He didn't wan tto go to school today but i took him although he was very upset.

Now I don't know what the school intend but I'm cross as my son was provoked into a reaction

which these boys got, last time this happened he got an IN SCHOOL EXCLUSION which

meant he just sat in the head of years office for 2 days!!

Can the schhol exclude him I've looked at the schools behaviour policies etc

but he was provoked, to me this is bullying as i believe that the yr 8 boys from last time are behind this

as the yr7's have only been in school for 4 weeks and still finding their feet.

I've also looked at the ACE website, any advice please

Thanks Alex

[baddad]

Hi Alexandra -

Firstly, I do think if your son hit another boy in the stomach then he should be sanctioned. Aggression is not an appropriate reaction to name calling under any circumstances.

That said, I'm confused about the school saying they would 'do all they could to find the other boys' - because if the boy reported being punched in the stomach or was seen to be the victim of a punch in the stomach then they should know exactly who he is! If the punched boy wandered off before he could be identified and is, for whatever reason, unwilling to offer his version of events there must be a reason for that, and that's probably that he's at least partly responsible for the incident and doesn't want to be punished for his part in it(?) That being the case, it would seem completely unreasonable to punish your son purely on the basis of a third party's uncorooborated interpretation of events. [There are a few other scenarios that could apply, but in general the principle - other than that he, the punched boy, was the 'victim' and was scared of further aggression - of 'no victim, no crime' would seem to apply]

Hope that's helpful. Certainly if the latter applies you've got 'grounds for appeal', but on the issue of aggression leading to sanctions it's (IMO) pretty much cut and dried, but obviously the name calling etc should be sanctioned too.

 

L&P

 

BD

[Alexandra]

Thanks for the reply baddad, my son went to find someone to tell them what he's done and why,

I know he'll need a discapline of some sort but its usually exclusion, but it was provoked and wrong i know,

the school have phoned today and asked to see us tomorrow morning before school but when I asked

I was told it was so we all know whats happening, I asked if the boys had been found

i was told yes they were being spoken too, so now we've got a meeting tomorrow and don't know

what about exactly.

Sorry about the rambling x

[Kathryn]

The school could exclude him, even though he has SEN. Many schools will exclude for any incident involving physical violence. I'm guessing that the head would have done it by now if he was going to, but I could be wrong. It's possible that he may impose a shorter exclusion than he normally would, as a reasonable adjustment under the circimstances. Or he may decide a lesser sanction (e.g detention) and a chat to you about how this can be prevented in the future, is enough.

 

Some useful things to hold on to when you go to your meeting:

- exclusion should be a last resort expescially for pupils with SEN - what else could be tried?

- It's unlawful to exclude a child for a reason related to their disability without justification,

- The head should take into account whether there has been provocation or bullying leading up to the incident.

 

The meeting should focus on what could be done to help his behaviour, so be sure to discuss your worries about the bullying (take in a written summary of what's happened) and any other issues which cause difficulty.

 

If an exclusion happens, there is a procedure for appealing to the governors (your rights vary according to the length of the exclusion). Even if you don't want to oppose it particularly, you may just want to ensure your written views go on his file. The ACE Fixed Term Exclusion booklet has a lot of useful guidance.

 

Let us know what happens - good luck.

 

K x

[Sally44]

Is there someone who can go with you to any meetings with school.

Your LEA should have an autism outreach teacher that might be able to give some good advice about supports to use in school.

The thing that also needs to be considered if he has Aspergers is that he may struggle to understand facial expression, voice tone etc and may have problems with facial recogition. Having had one bad experience he is going to be anxious and less able to interpret another situation.

In the past my son has been hurt by another pupil and then reacted by hitting anyone that came close to him and he thought they might do what the other child had done. But he did not have the social skills or language to be able to correctly interpret each and every situation.

As your son has Aspergers he may well be more capable in some areas and really struggle in others.

Being violent is always going to be punished. But the school also needs to know if your son would struggle to know the difference between friendly behaviour or agressive behaviour as the words may be the same in both situations. Alot depends on the gestures and voice tone that accompanies the words.

[Suze]

Just wanted to say good luck for today , hope it goes well.Is your son getting any support at school, when do these incidents take place , ie dinner or after school.I would encourage him as much as pos to use the library or any other staff maintained area at breaks etc so that if necessary a member of staff can interevene if trouble arises .My son has always used the sen suite at dinner as it is quieter and a member of staff is always there, my son would have lashed out if he had been provoked like that so I,m thankful he has chosen to go some where out of the loop at break times , best of luck today suzex <'> ><

[Alexandra]

feeling veru emotional now, had the meeting at school, it was awful it turns out

to be more complicated than before, my son got upset because one of the boys wanted to go of with someone different,

Matt doesn't cope well when things like that happen and he kicked out, then punched the other boys for

taking his friend away. So obviously the school have had to deal with this, so he has an in school exclusion

for today, while we were in the meeting he flipped totally, took a while to calm him.

The school think and I agree that Matt was hoping for an exclusion so he could be at home safe, he has been so difficult to get to school

in the mornings, he says he has no friends ( sort of positive as last year he didn't really notice) and didn't want to be in school,

I burst into tears felt so sad for him, anyway the school are putting things in place to help him at break times etc.

he must have felt so desperate to do this feel we've let him down, sorry just wanted to update xx

[Kathryn]

Oh dear. <'>

 

It sounds as thought the school have been as lenient as they could be, and an internal exclusion may be a more appropriate deterrent, but not a pleasant way of spending a morning!

 

I would now summarise in writing everything the school have said they would do to support him, and send that in to the school so it's on file. Targets for behaviour improvement can be written into his IEP. It might also be good to arrange another meeting for a few weeks time with the head, head of year, Senco (or whoever you feel is holding the reins here), just to review how things are going.

 

K x

[baddad]

Hi again -

 

Sorry to hear how it panned out . I know how distressing it is to hear of your child feeling isolated and 'alone' on a crowded playground

 

As Kathryn says, the school's response has been very sensible, especially considering it was felt that Matt was angling for a home exclusion. It is good that they are putting in some support measures for breaktimes, and they sound sympathetic so I'm sure they'll be seeking your input on that too.

 

My own son went through this in year five (there were elements before, but mostly kids start to pick up mum and dad's prejudices at about that age and that includes distancing themselves from anyone who might be a bit 'different') and it was really tough for him/heartbreaking for me. If your son's school can offer it, some sort of 'peer mentoring' can really help, but it needs to be done with a really light touch if it's not to become patronising or apparant to the other kids.

 

Another thing that was really helpful for my son was to make sure he got involved in after school activities. Whether this was the school organised gardening/football/basketball/drama clubs or the Judo club that rented the school facilities was irrelevant; they all gave him the opportunity to mix with his classroom peers and those from other classes/years in circumstances that were organised and social. The playground, and the school day generally, is either organised OR social - a fine but very important difference. The right kind of support in those organised social activities can make a huge difference: the Judo coach was particularly influential because he was an 'outsider' and someone all of the kids respected and liked, whereas teachers are, by and large, just teachers, iykwim (no disrespect to any teachers, I mean it in the same way that parents are 'just parents'!).

 

Hope that's all helpful, and it is good to hear that this is not 'bullying' or being labelled as 'bullying'. The biggest problem with that label is that it usually creates more barriers than it breaks down - the response often being to 'build a protective wall' rather than create an equal playing field.

 

L&P

 

BD

[Sally44]

As this incidence was also an example of how he has problems with emotional regulation and social skills, I would suggest you ask for a referal to the SALT (if you don't have regular contact with them).

I would phone the Head of the SALT department and speak with them too and ask that these areas (emotional regulation and social communication/interaction) are assessed. Ask that a SALT experienced in working with children with Aspergers sees him.

Follow it up with a letter to the school/SALT.

There is alot that can be done and skills can be learnt so that your son is better able to respond appropriately and not feel so left out and isolated. But he is not going to learn those skills himself.

He has had an exclusion and therefore is vulnerable to it happening again and even escalating.

 

From the school front BDs suggestions are the right way to go.

 

For our of school clubs I have found that cubs/scouts has been an organisation that my son has been able to join and is well supported. I don't know about the adult/child ratio at scouts, but at cubs it is 1:6 children. That is practically a special needs level of adult support (although they are obviously not qualified in ASDs). But you may find one local group does have other children with ASDs or Aspergers (as does my son's group). The leader has an autistic daughter herself and the adults have been absolutely brilliant with him. He went camping at Spring Bank for 3 days!

 

Also try to find out about any kind of social funding that is available. I have recently been granted 66 hours of paid adult support for my son via the Aiming High Scheme. And tomorrow he starts foil fencing classes!

 

There isn't lots of stuff out there. And it isn't easy. You take two steps forward and one back. But it is worth doing because as he has language and social communication difficulties he is not going to seek out these things himself and he will need someone to arrange it and find things he is interested in. Clubs and groups tend to have alot more routine and structure to them rather than just hanging out with friends.

 

If I waited for my son to ask or suggest something it would just not happen. He would happily sit watching TV or playing on the computer. If I asked him "do you want to go to xxxx's house to play", he might say "okay". But without me asking it would not occur to him to suggest it. My son needs to be organised and fortunately, due to the input we are getting from school/SALT and clubs etc, he is making progress and learning new social skills. He's never going to be at the level of NT kids, but he is moving in the right direction.

 

Our children know that they are different and they feel failure personally on a regular basis. They need to experience things and have successful outcomes and positive experiences. When that happens they will recognise that they have succeeded. And success breeds success.

Edited October 6, 2010 by Sally44

[Alexandra]

Hi sally

can I ask what salt is?

he has a specialist teacher once a fortnight and i'm phoning her today to ask her to help

with social skills etc,

 

Thanks Alex xx

[coolblue]

Speech And Language Therapy/ist

 

cb

[Sally44]

Yes, Speech and Language Therapist.

 

He must have seen one at some point.

But I presume from your response that he is not currently seeing anyone.

So get back in touch with them and tell them what is happening in school and ask for an experienced SALT to come and assess his social interaction/communication skills.

You can write into the school with a clarification letter eg.

 

"At our meeting on xxxx you informed me that my son had hit another pupil because he felt that they had stolen his friend. This has resulted in him being excluded from school for xxxxx.

I feel that these difficulties are due to his diagnosis of Aspergers (and list any other diagnosis that is relevent eg. ADHD etc) and difficulties with emotional regulation and social interaction and communication skills.

I am concerned that this lack of emotional regulation/social/life skills has resulted in an exclusion, and I feel that without professional advice and input that this could happen again or even escalate.

My son is very upset at how he reacted.

Xxxxx is a vulnerable pupil whose needs in this area are not currently being met.

I would like my son to be assessed by a SALT experienced in working with children with Aspergers.

I would like them to assess all aspects of my sons speech and social communication both receptive and expressive. I would also like them to look at his emotional understanding/response and regulation as well as life skills.

My son is self aware and is saying he is lonely. He has low self esteem and needs to be supported and taught skills so that he can socialise with his peers with greater success.

(If he is being bullied or called names then include that eg. xxx has told me that pupils called him 'weird', 'freak' and this upsets him).

I would like school to consider what supports they could provide so that he does not feel so isolated, such as 'dinnertime clubs', mentoring, etc and for my son to be allowed to go to a suitable environment during unstructured breaktimes and dinnertimes such as the library or the computer suite."

 

Obviously the above is just an idea. So adapt it yourself if you think it would be useful.

It is important to get your concerns in writing because anything verbal can be denied or forgotten or not acted on. If you send in a letter you have proof that you have asked for your son's needs to be assessed and met.

 

If you do not get a response, or are not happy with the response, then you can consider asking for an assessment towards a Statement. That would mean the LEA would have to ask the EP and SALT to assess him and produce reports. The LEA may or may not agree to assess or produce a Statement. But you can appeal and I think that his diagnosis along with difficulties that he has with social interaction etc may go towards proving complex needs. (I don't know all the difficulties he has, but each and every one of them should be identified and provision for them met in a Statement.

[Alexandra]

Thank you sally, I got in touch with the school and they are going to ask the SALT worker

 

to informally assess my son, his LSA thinks he should be seen and also he'll get a lot from

 

it, My son has a statement so need to start the process of getting this put on, the school do a social group

 

at lunchtimes so things are there to help just need to get him to go and join in.

 

thanks for the letter ideas, I shall be using the bases of that to inform the school officially.

 

Thanks Alex x

[Sally44]

It is very good that school is supporting you and you need to try as much as possible to keep that going.

The school has the budget for SALT and EP input and so they need to request those professionals to come in and assess your son. So the fact that they have done that is brilliant. But remember it is down to school to ask them in. But you can talk to those professionals yourself, and you can request in writing to the Head of the Department that someone who is experienced in his diagnosis (and list them all) comes to assess him.

You really do need a SALT that has experience of Aspergers and not just speech disorders to see him.

And you need the SALT to assess his social communciation and interaction and emotional regulation etc.

 

Google SCERTS and talk to the SALT about that. Our LEA uses it in their special schools. My son is going to have that in the mainstream school.

 

As your son has a Statement it is all about identify each and every need in section 2 and about provisiion to meet that need in section 3. And if your son needs anything that is over and above what the school, SALT, or EP service can provide then the funding of it is down to the LEA.

 

It is unlikely that the SALT or EP would recommend something that their service could not provide, but if you ever have an independent report (now or in the future), they may well recommend additional things that the LEA would have to fund if it was in the Statement.

 

 

So how do you get additional information in the Statement?

Wait for the professionals to see your child and when you write to them ask them to do standardised assessments. They should then produce a report/advice about the results of the assessments and what they recommend he should have in school.

The SALT can and maybe should contribute towards targets in the Social Skills Group. And she can recommend things like 1:1 sessions to work on skills such as sharing, turn taking in conversations, talking on topic etc.

 

So once you have the reports consider when the next Annual Review is. Is the SALT/EP/School putting these things in place now. If they are then you may just want to wait for the AR and ask that the additional needs are included in section 2 and that it is quantified and specified in terms of hours of support and staffing provision and professional input and monitoring in section 3.

 

You can ask the NAS or IPSEA to look at your son's Statement and tell you if it is legal and worded correctly.

 

If you are not happy with it, at the AR you can request the amendments. If they amend, or if they refuse to amend - in both cases you can go to appeal about the contents of the Statement in section 2 or 3 or both or 2,3 and 4 (4 is the school) etc.

 

You can get independent professional reports if you feel it is needed.

 

At tribunal you need evidence. The LEA will have their reports and you will need written professional evidence in reports that what you feel your son needs is what is detailed in the report.

 

That is a long way down the line, but that is the final destination.

 

Get yourself a copy of the SEN Code of Practice. It is at the top of this forum page under SEN publications. Read through it so that you know what the process is and so you can ensure that everyone does follow the correct procedures. Simply by school and professionals knowing that you have the CoP it will make them a bit more careful about doing things correctly.