Social stories and brainwashing

[What Is Typical Anyway?]

I should be posting in Meet and Greet, really, but this is fresh in my mind so I want to get some other opinions.

 

Oscar has Aspergers, very bright (was identified as "Gifted" before ASD), but does not like spending time with other children his own age and with a number of behavioural issues. He just started preschool (aged 3 and a half) attached to the primary school we are thinking about sending him to. We have had little success with anything involving other children up until now (except gymnastics which he just started and is loving).

 

Long story short, he has been assigned a 1:1 classroom assistant, and has had about 3 sessions so far. The last one, he fought Hannah (Mummy) tooth and nail, trying to delay to make it too late to take him. Hannah hates sending him anyway, but wants him to integrate if possible and also get a little respite.

 

We just received a letter from his teacher, with two tailored "social stories" included, with pictures of him included.

 

In principle, they don't seem like a terribly bad idea, but I can't help feeling like they're like trying to brainwash him.

 

The key phrases that stick my mind (and craw, when trying to read them to him) are:

 

"If I do this my teachers will be pleased with me and Mummy will be happy too. This will make me happy too."

 

[big list of things that he supposedly likes doing at school, some possibly true, but including "I like playing with the other children"]

 

"I have lots of fun at school!"

 

Am I being overly sensitive about telling him what he like and how it should be making him feel?

 

The first part of "When I come to School" is OK, reinforcing what happens when he comes to school, but the final bit about Mummy being happy etc doesn't feel good, especially.

 

Anybody else feel this way, or experienced with social stories?

 

Joe and Hannah

[Sally44]

Social stories can be very useful for ASD children because it really spells out the situation to them and gives them the information that they don't automatically pick up from the situation/environment/interaction that other NT adults or children would.

However Social Stories is very open ended. By that I mean there is no ridgit formula of what it should include, or how it should be worded.

I think that if you are unhappy with certain phrases in it, then you need to talk with the pre-school about it - or with the person who told the pre-school how to write the social stories.

 

I think I too would be unhappy with a phrase like "being in school makes me happy", because I know that that is not always the case. You really need to use the language for the thing the social story is trying to address.

 

So, a social story for my son about homework might read

 

"My name is xxxx and I go to xxxxx school. All children at xxxx school are given homework that they must do at home. If I try hard to do my homework my teacher and my mum/dad will be very pleased with me and they will give me (whatever the reward is - might be time on the computer at home, or time in school to do a jigsaw etc). Sometimes homework is hard to do and sometimes it is easy. Doing homework helps you to learn more. Doing homework is a grown up thing to do." It would be untrue to put a phrase in such as "doing homework makes me happy", because it doesn't. He hates it!

 

As you say he is not seeking interaction (and he is still young). Have you considered Play Therapy? You would have to pay for it yourself. But you might find a Play Therapist who has experience of working with ASD children. I did this with my son for around 18 months (from age 5 onwards). I believe it gave him alot of positive experiences of playing with other people and has been a motivating factor in his seeking to play with other children.

[Sally44]

I think it is okay to say that when he complies with things that his teacher or parents will be happy. Because that is true - but you and school also need to ensure that any difficulties or barriers to him complying are being addressed as well. This is something that other children automatically pick up. Ie. if I do as my teacher/parents ask then they will be pleased. And most children like to please others. And they also know that if they do not comply they will make the teacher/parents frustrated, annoyed, angry etc and that they will get into trouble.

 

I think the ASD child needs to be told that x, y and z behaviour does make other people happy because he will not know that and will not be motivated to make other people happy. Part of having an ASD is that there is a lessened or absent need to please other people or society or fit in and there is definately a lack of understanding around these situations. NTs are very aware of the social group and what they have to do to fit in and keep their peers happy.

[oxgirl]

I agree that some of the wording seems clumsy. I'd raise your concerns with the school and ask them to change the wording to something you feel more comfortable with. I would also, as a mum, feel unhappy about having my name dragged into a social story, almost like a threat of displeasure hanging over my son's head, the implication being that I wouldn't be happy with him if he didn't live up to certain expectations. Instead of "I like playing with the other children" and "I have lots of fun at school!", they could make it more general with "school can be lots of fun", "it can be fun to play with other children", "joining in can be fun", etc., it's a subtle change of wording but I can see what you're saying, and phrasing can make all the difference.

 

~ Mel ~

[baddad]

There seem to be some assumptions in there and the wording is, as someone put it, a bit clumsy in places, but i can't really see anything objectionable or evidence of 'brainwashing'.

The influence of parents / significant adults on children is huge, so to say 'mummy' (or 'teachers') will be happy if i do this or disappointed if i do that is perfectly reasonable, as long as they are things mummy or teachers will be happy/disappointed about.

With the changes oxgirl/sally 44 have suggested it all seems very positive and useful stuff.

How much pressure you want to put him under to socialise has to be a personal choice, but certainly developing skills to enable him to socialise (or cope with socialisation) is an absolute must, unless he's going to live in a social 'bubble'. He doesn't necessarily have to play with the other kids, but he will, many times in his life, find himself in situations where children (or adults) are playing around him. And even if he doesn't want to socialise now there's a good chance he will be more socially interested later, and the earlier he starts developing skills in readiness for that the better.

 

HTH

 

L&P

 

BD

[What Is Typical Anyway?]

There seem to be some assumptions in there and the wording is, as someone put it, a bit clumsy in places, but i can't really see anything objectionable or evidence of 'brainwashing'.

The influence of parents / significant adults on children is huge, so to say 'mummy' (or 'teachers') will be happy if i do this or disappointed if i do that is perfectly reasonable, as long as they are things mummy or teachers will be happy/disappointed about.

With the changes oxgirl/sally 44 have suggested it all seems very positive and useful stuff.

How much pressure you want to put him under to socialise has to be a personal choice, but certainly developing skills to enable him to socialise (or cope with socialisation) is an absolute must, unless he's going to live in a social 'bubble'. He doesn't necessarily have to play with the other kids, but he will, many times in his life, find himself in situations where children (or adults) are playing around him. And even if he doesn't want to socialise now there's a good chance he will be more socially interested later, and the earlier he starts developing skills in readiness for that the better.

 

I definitely agree that he needs to learn social skills, I just don't like the implication that "you must feel this under these circumstances". An exterior view of this helps a lot. The changes suggested are very helpful. "brainwashing" was a bit over-dramatic, I must admit. I guess the main thing I struggle with is the statement that he will be happy if he makes others happy. I think we'll review them to find something we're happy with and discuss with the school.

 

Thanks everyone who has replied so far.

[baddad]

I guess the main thing I struggle with is the statement that he will be happy if he makes others happy.

 

Perhaps you can turn that on it's head! Certainly in life the liklihood is he will himself be less happy if he regularly makes others unhappy!

I would add, though, that while he may not have got there yet there is certainly every reason to believe that at some point he will find making others happy personally rewarding. My son definitely does, and will spend ages trying to find gifts he knows will make people happy and enjoying their pleasure in receiving them.

[When he was about six he bought me a 'book' for Christmas because he knows I love reading. He was jumping up and down with excitment/anticipation when he gave it to me... okay, he'd not scored to well in the subject matter (it was the biog of Ian Wright - I have no interest in football or Ian Wright ), but he was in no way disappointed by my response, or by my appreciation for how much much effore he had put in]

 

L&P

 

BD

[BusyLizzie100]

I definitely agree that he needs to learn social skills, I just don't like the implication that "you must feel this under these circumstances". An exterior view of this helps a lot. The changes suggested are very helpful. "brainwashing" was a bit over-dramatic, I must admit. I guess the main thing I struggle with is the statement that he will be happy if he makes others happy. I think we'll review them to find something we're happy with and discuss with the school.

 

Thanks everyone who has replied so far.

 

Yes I agree that the wording is not quite right. It's impossible to dictate how a child with ASD should feel, or even try to define what they are feeling, and certainly not in a social story, which is about providing guidance on certain specific situations.

 

There are in fact specific guidelines to how a social story should be structured - see Carol Gray's books since she is the 'inventor'. However, the term 'social story' can become a catch-all description for any kind of written instruction or guidance in the end, if it works for the child. For example, my 12-yr-old was given a 'social story' prior to a recent geography trip, but really it was simply a detailed, written timetable of what was going to happen and what he could expect - it wasn't designed to alter his social behaviour but it gave him all the information he needed before going on the trip and he didn't get too anxious about it (at the end it said he would get back to school at xx time, which would give him time to go to the toilet, wash his hands and go to lunch - very useful information!).

 

As already mentioned, I think it's OK to say that others will be pleased, and what any possible reward may be, but ultimately we can't tell these kids what they should or should not like - they may not even understand what 'playing with other children' actually is, or they may be trying to play but not very successfully, so need more support in doing so...

 

It sounds like the school are trying though, so I'd imagine that simple rewording would help.

 

godd lkuck,

Lizzie

[puffin]

I don't think social stories work with all children - and some children in particular react very badly to social stories that are constructed with a very moralising/social blackmailing tone.

 

I also have a very bright daughter with AS - who never got on at all with social stories as a result of exactly the same type of concerns that you have - the fact that parents and teachers being "happy" with her was conditional on a type of dog-training compliance without being allowed to have her own input into a issue that was important to her - this really upset her and as a result she point blank refused to listen to another social story in her life - so in many ways a bad/clumsy social story is worse than no social story.

 

 

I was furious with the way it was handled at DD1s school - as they chose to force a social story on an issue that I didn't want them to intervene over in anycase:

- the issue they chose was that DD does not like to wear a coat in winter - she suffers from a nasty type of bleeding ecxema when she get hot and sweaty - so I had sent a letter saying that she should be allowed to decide for herslef whether to wear a coat

- however the staff opposed this - apprently *other parents had complained* about her not wearing a coat - so they did one of these moral blackmailing stories that she must wear a coat to make her teachers and classmates happy

- she was furious - really really upset with the underlying message that she must suffer painful bleeding sores in order to keep other people happy

- what sort of message was that? That she must comply with others despite considerable pain to herself

 

I think that it may work for certain specific issues - but it is simly patronising and insulting to tell a child that they have to be happy and school to make *everyone else happy* - this type of blind compliance I feel can be dangerous and hinder social skills - as it basically tells AS/ASD kids that their own opinions and feelings in social situations are less valid and they must hide their feelings to keep others' happy

[Sally44]

I understand why you are using the word brainwashing. But what Social Stories and other ASD specific approaches are trying to do is to "spell out" from start to finish the 'original action, thought processes and outcome'.

Those with an ASD do not automatically get the connection from the start to finish or see the overall big picture.

 

For example I have had to explain to my son many many things many times over the years eg. about 'losing'. "If you get upset/angry and say rude words when you lose, then other children will not want to play with you because playing with you is not fun for them." I don't want him to become a robot that jumps to command. And it is hard to teach them the real subtle differences in life. For example sometimes it is alright to be a little selfish just to look after your own needs and concerns. But to be selfish and self centred all the time is not.

 

And there are many ways to keep reinforcing about it being okay to lose by using social stories, commenting on how others behave when they lose (good and bad), teaching them what to say if they lose like "well done" to the winner. Lots of role play in school and at home using sharing turn taking games.

 

It is also important for everyone involved to know when is a good time to try to teach a skill. Many children are delayed and attempting to teach certain skills maybe totally inappropriate if they are not at a level to achieve at least some success. Or the child may have some skills but not the whole set to complete the task in which case you would need professionals to identify what that was and put a programme together to improve the poor skills.

 

What you will also need at some future point is an emotional recognition programme for him to recognise the emotions of others and also his own emotions.

 

There was a DVD being circulated by the NAS some time ago called Transporters. You might like to have a look at that if you can get your hands on a copy.

[puffin]

I think that this is why it is important to use a social story in connection with a specific skill or concrete situation - such as a change where the story contains specific and factual information

 

However some school staff see them as a blanket way to improve *compliance* - personally I think they are inneffective when they are used to present the ASD child's personal opinions and likes/dislikes as somehow invalid - the type of story that says "if you don't like what we like you make us sad*.

Edited October 12, 2010 by puffin

[Karen A]

Hi.

I have Ben who is 12 and has AS.Ben is also very bright.

 

I understand exactly how you feel.I don't like the message that a child might get that mum is happy because child does particular things.I have worked at length with CAMHS psychotherapists as has Ben doing lots of work to convince him that mum might be unhappy and that is not his responsibility.

 

However Social Stories can be very useful .They are not intended to be brainwashing but may come across like that. I would not use a Social Story that I did not feel comfortable with just as I was not happy to read a child's version of the story of Noah and the Wale which suggested that children who did bad things might be eaten.

 

 

But it might be worth talking with school to see if a change of wording might help.It is not unusual to come across things that need slight alterations.Social Stories are designed to relate to your child very specifically.If you are not going to be happy because teachers are happy or do not think your child will be happy if he plays with other children than better to be honest about it and try to find something that will motivate your child.

 

Ben would listen to the story once and then say ''But actually I don't like to play with other children because they interupt my detailed plans and mess everything up'' .

 

Something like ''When Oscar plays in the sandpit he can ask for a bucket ..... child ][insert name of child who is chosen because they will give a bucket if asked]] will give Oscar a bucket and he can build with it'' might be much nearer.It describes the situation in detail,describes what Oscar can do and explains who the outcome will help Oscar.

 

I like to play with other children is much too vague,too long term,not measurable...play where,with which children,what is play,do they always play with you in a way that makes you happy.The idea of a Social Story is partly that the child learns what to expect in response to a situation he cannot anticipate so you need to provide in practice what the story says will happen fairly consistently.

 

Most NT three year olds don't worry too much about how happy their peers feel about things.They certainly don't play nicely in a reliable way for more than a few minutes.

Excuse me while I slip into my previous life where I was a lunch time supervisor in a nursey on many wet days.

 

Karen.

Edited October 12, 2010 by Karen A

[Known]

My son who is 12 years old now will not buy into social stories and finds them patronising. He was diagnosed when he was 10. We just had a private ed psy done and he scored well above average in Maths and English and congnitive ability. What he finds useful is us (ie parents) talking to him when he wants to talk and that is normally at 10 p.m. at night when after having woken up early sorted the other children out, having a busy day is not appropriate. My husband still makes time but the exhaustion does catch up on us. My son has now started opening up about his experiences which previously he was unable to talk about. He has got a whole lot of baggage with him of various issues which he is holding on to and not able to let go of it, the result of this he is at home since March refusing to engage with learning or go to school. I have posted this separately.

 

My son also does not believe in being brainwashed and would retaliate and say why is everyone trying to change him. He is what he is and that other people are the problem. We have a fair understanding of him and as parents we are very tolerant and respect his views. But in the wide open world he would be classed as highly opiniated (excuse the spelling) and getting his own way. When he does come up with an idea, it is very valid and true and a neurotypical person would not be able to think like that and perhaps argue the point. This often leads my son into problems in school with group work.

[baddad]

My son who is 12 years old now will not buy into social stories and finds them patronising. He was diagnosed when he was 10. We just had a private ed psy done and he scored well above average in Maths and English and congnitive ability. What he finds useful is us (ie parents) talking to him when he wants to talk and that is normally at 10 p.m. at night when after having woken up early sorted the other children out, having a busy day is not appropriate. My husband still makes time but the exhaustion does catch up on us. My son has now started opening up about his experiences which previously he was unable to talk about. He has got a whole lot of baggage with him of various issues which he is holding on to and not able to let go of it, the result of this he is at home since March refusing to engage with learning or go to school. I have posted this separately.

 

My son also does not believe in being brainwashed and would retaliate and say why is everyone trying to change him. He is what he is and that other people are the problem. We have a fair understanding of him and as parents we are very tolerant and respect his views. But in the wide open world he would be classed as highly opiniated (excuse the spelling) and getting his own way. When he does come up with an idea, it is very valid and true and a neurotypical person would not be able to think like that and perhaps argue the point. This often leads my son into problems in school with group work.

 

Hi known -

I'm a bit confused here, because if your son finds the moral tone of social stories patronising and he has well above average cognitive abilities he shouldn't need social stories. He does seem, from what you say, to be very much understanding how his behaviour impacts on other people, but simply doesn't care. If he can offer very 'valid' justifications for his behaviour and coherent arguments to back up his views then, by definition, he also has the capacity to acknowledge the validity of any counter-argument if he chooses to. Maybe you're being too tolerant of his views; however gifted he might be, after all, he is still only a child and you are the adults. He shoudn't be in any sort of position to make his own decisions about whether to (i.e) attend school or not. He's even telling you to make appointments after ten at night to discuss these issues with him, which is definitely a case of the tail (child) wagging the dog (parents).

Why do you feel that the 'wide open world's' view that he is highly opinionated and gets his own way would be the 'wrong' view? In what way is he not opinionated, and in what way is he not getting his own way?

Personally, I can see no reason whatsoever why your son should need to feel patronised by having social stories offered to him. I would stop patronising him and just start telling him, and I would stop debating with him over issues that, as a 12 year old, he cannot possibly understand the full implications of. A child with an IQ of 160 isn't an adult. He or she is a clever child. Decisions about the adult world, like school, need to be made by adults, not children.

 

L&P

 

BD

[peaches]

1. Change the social story

 

2. Get Carole Gray's book on social stories so you have a better understanding of what they should contain and how they should work.

[cmuir]

Hi

 

I can see where you're coming from, but I don't think it's clear cut. My son is under the wing of CAMHS and they've tried to drill into me that I should 'label' his feelings, i.e. when he's cross, say 'I can see that you're cross', etc, etc. Trusting that the 'lebelling' of these feelings are correct, the assumption is that he'll hopefully identify the feeling and recollect the 'label' that's been applied to it and in future hopefully be able to recognise and identify how he's feeling himself. I can see the thinking behind this, but I'm not always felt comfortable telling him how he feels, yet I can see if he can't do this for himself, he needs to be taught. I guess it's the same principle with the social stories.

 

Caroline.