AS or Schizoid Disorder?

[Sunlit Vampire]

Hi There,

i was just at a meeting where my psychiatrist claimed i had some kind of schizoid personality disorder along with adjustment disorder, this confuses me since i was diagnosed at 9 with AS and i'm wondering, is this just a natural progression of diagnosis's or am i being diagnosed with something else entirely (in regards to the schizoid personality bit, the adjustment disorder is something else i'm dealing with, a co-morbid condition if you will)

are they right to be re-diagnosing me as something other than AS or is it just how the adult learning disability team works (Mental health wanted nothing to do with me , but that's another story)

 

Thanks

David~

[Karen A]

Hi.

Schizoid personality disorder is certainly not a natural progression of an AS diagnosis.Although it might be possible to have scizoid personality disorder and AS it would be extremely unusual.

 

Schizoid personality disorder and adjustement disorder are both considered by most professionals to be serious forms of mental illness.Some people feel that a personality disorder label is more stigmatising than helpful.

 

Have the professionals explained any rationale behind their suggestions. .

Do the professionals have any experience and training in ASD.There have been reports of people having been diagnosed as having a personality disorder because the person providing the diagnosis did not know anything about AS.However this is usually where a person had never been diagnosed with AS as a child and for some reason came to the attention of mental health services as an adult.

 

http://www.minddisorders.com/Py-Z/Schizoid-personality-disorder.html

This might be useful.It appears to suggest that it should not be possible to have a diagnosis of Schzoid Personality disorder and AS because a professional would have to make a decision as to whether the behaviour displayed is due to AS or due to a specific style of parenting.

 

The type of therapy recommended for Scizoid Personality Disorder is unlikely to be effective in AS.For example family therapy or group therapy which does not take account of any difficulties being related to AS.

 

Karen.

 

Karen.

Edited November 18, 2010 by Karen A

[Sunlit Vampire]

Hi Karen A,

interesting, i did question it at the time and the response that i got was that AS is Developmental and so means very little in an adult, and she does work with ASD (mind you, possibly Lower functioning than AS so i can't say how credible the experience is)

also i don't think she knew much of my history because she was very unsure of a diagnosis of depression, instead she stuck with adjustment disorder.

 

David~

[Mumble]

the response that i got was that AS is Developmental and so means very little in an adult

That's nonsense. AS/ASD is a life-long pervasive developmental disorder. The clue to it meaning something still as an adult is in the 'life-long' bit.

 

A number of the NAS campaigns have been about the fact that Autism also affects adults and that it is not something that is grown out of: Autistic children grow up to be Autistic adults.

[Karen A]

Hi Karen A,

interesting, i did question it at the time and the response that i got was that AS is Developmental and so means very little in an adult, and she does work with ASD (mind you, possibly Lower functioning than AS so i can't say how credible the experience is)

also i don't think she knew much of my history because she was very unsure of a diagnosis of depression, instead she stuck with adjustment disorder.

 

David~

 

Hi again.

I am not currently registered as an NHS professional because my RGN registration has lapsed.I have no specific training in mental health.

However the diagnosis of Schizoid Personality disorder cannot be based on anything other than an extremely detailed history of very early childhood experiences and parenting.So I am at a loss as to how she could provide a diagnosis of Schizoid Personality Disorder without it.

 

I have a son Ben who is 12 and has AS.Ben was diagnosed after a three year debate amongst many NHS psychiatrists and psychotherapists.It was thought for a long time that he might have attachment disorder.I had been mentally unwell in the first three years of Ben's life which was recognised.However the history was explored in great detail during debates about whether Ben had AS or attachment disorder.The significant issue was that Ben had experienced early childhood trauma because of my mental state.Without that history he would have been diagnosed as having AS three years earlier.

[Sunlit Vampire]

hi

Hmm, I had always thought that it was pervasive, but then i always had some amount of self doubt that my DX was wrong, not because i want it to be wrong, but because i thought that i don't deserve the help i get because of it (i get rather guilty about it actually, [if you can't tell, i was really badly bullied about it] ).

I guess when I get five minutes with my psychiatrist (in about a month) i will talk to her why she thought i had this instead of AS.

 

However the diagnosis of Schizoid Personality disorder cannot be based on anything other than an extremely detailed history of very early childhood experiences and parenting.

 

Interesting, well that's not what she did so i don't think it's an actual diagnosis, in fact she called it a working Diagnosis (not too sure what that means)

 

David~

Edited November 18, 2010 by Sunlit Vampire

[Karen A]

hi Mumble

Hmm, I had always thought that it was pervasive, but then i always had some amount of self doubt that my DX was wrong, not because i want it to be wrong, but because i thought that i don't deserve the help i get because of it (i get rather guilty about it actually, [if you can't tell, i was really badly bullied about it] ).

I guess when I get five minutes with my psychiatrist (in about a month) i will talk to her why she thought i had this instead of AS, at least it's not a formal diagnosis.

 

David~

 

 

http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/mentalhealthinfoforall/problems/personalitydisorders/pd.aspx

This link might be useful.

 

Although the choice is yours in your position I would challenge a formal diagnosis of Schizoid Personality Disorder rather than accepting it formally.

The treatments that are available for Schizoid Personality Disorder are known to not be effective in ASD.It may be worth asking what the professional is offering in the way of treatment.It may not be worth having what is widely recognized as an extremely stigmatizing label for what is often considered to be an untreatable disorder unless the professional has some cure that I am unaware of.

 

Excuse my scepticism.Ben spent three years in weekly psychanalytical psychotherapy.He did gain a lot from the experience however he still has AS.

[Karen A]

hi

Hmm, I had always thought that it was pervasive, but then i always had some amount of self doubt that my DX was wrong, not because i want it to be wrong, but because i thought that i don't deserve the help i get because of it (i get rather guilty about it actually, [if you can't tell, i was really badly bullied about it] ).

I guess when I get five minutes with my psychiatrist (in about a month) i will talk to her why she thought i had this instead of AS.

 

 

 

Interesting, well that's not what she did so i don't think it's an actual diagnosis, in fact she called it a working Diagnosis (not too sure what that means)

 

David~

 

 

It is psychiatrists talk for a guess.

 

Who gave you the original AS diagnosis and do you have documentation ?

 

 

The history taken as part of AS assessment for diagnosis should have excluded a history that could indicate attachment disorder.I think Schizoid Personality Disorder is probably the adult development of untreated severe attachment issues.For a child to be diagnosed with attachment disorder a clear history is needed of bereavement,trauma,neglect ot traumatic loss.Most children with attachment disorder have been within the care system.Ben was an unusual exception.

 

Karen.

[Karen A]

I had one interesting thought that might be completely irrelevant.

AS is a learning disability whereas Schizoid Personality Disorder is a Mental Disorder.

The learning disability team may have a financial motivation in diagnosing you with a condition that they have no responsibility for.

I wish I could say that the idea is so far fetched as to be ridiculous....but it would not surprise me.

[Sunlit Vampire]

Hi,

Yeah, i've got documentation for 3 years worth of work to diagnose me with AS.

 

it is weird that the learning disability team suggested that, guess it must be more to due to experience than anything else.

 

i'm actually worried i might lose my diagnosis since that is what i use to put myself into normality.

 

David~

[Mumble]

AS is a learning disability

Is it? Or is that just how it is categorised for the purpose of service provision?

[ScienceGeek]

I didn't think that ASD was classed as a learning disability. I know personally that I was passed around between mental health and learning disabilities because they said that AS wasn't classed as learning disability or mental health therefore I wasn't under anyones remit. Having trouble accessing mental health at the moment due to them seeing AS and running a mile saying we don't treat AS, but what about depression?

[Sunlit Vampire]

Hmm, AS isn't really classed as anything, just as you say ScienceGeek, i'm currently under Learning disabilities even if they don't want me there (but Mental health won't take the case as far as i know), depression wise, they should since it has very little to do with AS but i don't know what they may do once they hear that you have a diagnosis.

 

David~

Edited November 18, 2010 by Sunlit Vampire

[Boy]

I've had the same problem and been passed around more teams than I knew existed (without any of them bothering to assess me of course, but dismissing me for various reasons). Learning Disabilities team, Mental Health Team, Disabilities Team, Vulnerable Adults Team... I think I must be missing at least one more out. Social Services assessed me, in order to bring my case up in a joint meeting to find a team to 'take me on', and I was told I'd been referred back to Learning Disabilities, but it turns out that I'm having a joint assessment by Learning Disabilities and Vulnerable Adults, which will apparently be used to work out which team can provide the best services for my needs. Only found out that that was actually the case today (having spent the last week in confusion due to being told about the LDT referral but being called by VAT first, then being called by LDT as well..).

 

Sorry that this is a bit off-topic but it was sort of reassuring to know that others have actually been taken on by the LDT in other areas.

[Karen A]

Is it? Or is that just how it is categorised for the purpose of service provision?

 

I thought it was.However I very open to debate as I am not the expert on this.

[Mumble]

I thought it was.However I very open to debate as I am not the expert on this.

I'm not sure it is. Otherwise it wouldn't make sense to say "Autism and Learning Difficulties" - that would be the same as saying learning difficulties and learning difficulties.

 

It's classified as a pervasive developmental disorder. I'm not sure where that fits with other syndromes/disorders or what group it fits into. It's also been classified as neurological - but does it fit the group of neurological disorders?

[Karen A]

I'm not sure it is. Otherwise it wouldn't make sense to say "Autism and Learning Difficulties" - that would be the same as saying learning difficulties and learning difficulties.

 

It's classified as a pervasive developmental disorder. I'm not sure where that fits with other syndromes/disorders or what group it fits into. It's also been classified as neurological - but does it fit the group of neurological disorders?

 

It could be a pervasive developmental disorder or perhaps a neuro-developmental disorder which might or might not cause a learning disability .

 

Ben has AS but he certainly does not have a learning disbility in the common understanding of the term.He is extremely intelligent.

[Mumble]

It could be a pervasive developmental disorder or perhaps a neuro-developmental disorder which might or might not cause a learning disability .

Long-winded and probably too many words for doctors to use (I've had plenty of experience of doctors' short-hand! ) but yes, I think that's accurate - or maybe, causes difficulties with learning rather than a learning disability (which may imply a specific dx? )

 

Ben has AS but he certainly does not have a learning disability in the common understanding of the term.He is extremely intelligent.

Hmm, brings up 'what actually is a learning-disability'? (and yes, it is far too late and I am far too tired to discuss this now!! )

[Karen A]

I think the difficulty is that there is minimal provision in most areas of the country for people with ''mild'' depression or anxiety whether or not the individual has AS.A GP might presrcibe medication.In some areas there is some low cost charity provision.Otherwise it is almost impossible to obtain talking therapy.

 

Karen.

[Boy]

I was initially turned down by the Learning Difficulties Team on the basis that to be considered Learning Disabled you have to have an IQ below 70. However, my friend (who is my carer/advocate) was recently told by someone there that that is on the criteria, but isn't a defining criteria. Before finding this out we were advised by the NAS to argue 'relevant intelligence'. For example, I am academically intelligent, but not socially intelligent or able to learn self-care skills (outside of hygiene, but that's because I'm quite OCD about being clean!) very well.

[Karen A]

Hi,

Yeah, i've got documentation for 3 years worth of work to diagnose me with AS.

 

it is weird that the learning disability team suggested that, guess it must be more to due to experience than anything else.

 

i'm actually worried i might lose my diagnosis since that is what i use to put myself into normality.

 

David~

I do not think you can lose a diagnosis of AS once you have it.

It is my understanding that Ben might decide he does not wish to identify himself as having AS at some point if he feels that having AS does not have a significant impact on his ability to function in daily life.However that would not remove his original AS diagnosis.

 

Karen.

[Sunlit Vampire]

hi

 

I do not think you can lose a diagnosis of AS once you have it.

 

yeah, i hope so

 

anyway, i guess i have to wait until i see my psychiatrist again so i could see why she suggested that.

 

david~