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sesley

the MMR and autism

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I came across this. On this ongoing study of the MMR. Its this gastro thing that is the concern. Autism i believe is genetic.but why do people with autism suffer from these problems. Is it bad diets? Mine is the 36% constipation. I think from his limited selection of food in his diet,but i get veggies hidden in his food and he won't eat visible fruit and veg.He eats plenty of chocolate which can be a laxative and orange juice which helps and i get him to drink plenty.I stopped dairy milk and use soya milk and make sure he gets no aspertaim as well. This is what i found what do you all think? Do yours suffer from gastro problems too?

 

Background: Children with developmental disorders experience chronic gastrointestinal symptoms. Aims: To examine the nature of these gastrointestinal symptoms and histologic findings in children with autism spectrum/developmental disorders and ileocolonic disease. Methods: Chart review. 143 autism spectrum/developmental disorder patients, with chronic gastrointestinal symptoms, undergoing diagnostic ileocolonoscopy. Results: Diarrhea was present in 78%, abdominal pain in 59% and constipation in 36%. Ileal and/or colonic lymphonodular hyperplasia (LNH), defined as the presence of an increased number of enlarged lymphoid follicles, often with hyperactive germinal centers, was present in 73.2%. Terminal ileum LNH presented visually in 67% and histologically in 73%. Colonic LNH was multifocal and presented histologically in 32%. Ileal and/or colonic inflammation presented in 74%, consisting primarily of active or chronic colitis (69%). Ileal inflammation presented in 35%. Presence of LNH significantly predicted mucosal inflammation. Patients with ileal and/or colonic LNH had lower mean/median age than those without; patients with ileal and/or colonic inflammation had lower mean/median age than those without. There was a significant association between ileo and/or colonic inflammation or LNH, and onset of developmental disorder; plateaued or regressive onset conferred greater risk than early onset. Conclusions: Patients with autism or related disorders exhibiting chronic gastrointestinal symptoms demonstrate ileal or colonic inflammation upon light microscopic examination of biopsy tissue. Further work is needed to determine whether resolution of histopathology with appropriate therapy is accompanied by GI symptomatic and cognitive/behavioral improvement

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I have suffered from GI problems as long as I can remember, but I didn't have the MMR as a child.

 

Purely anecdotally however, I have been a lot worse in the last 12 months, and had two doses of the MMR in October/November 09. However there have also been a number of others factors which could cause or at least contribute to this.

 

[ETA When I say worse, I mean AS symptoms not GI symptoms]

Edited by RainbowsButterflies

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Neither DS nor myself have ever had gastro problems. Youngest, however, was under the care of GOS for dreadful problems with an allergic reaction in his gut up to about 18 months/2 years, although he is not ASD...

 

Bid :)

Edited by bid

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No gastro probs in DS either - although if we don't keep a REALLY strict control of what he eats he would live off pasta and chocolate which leads to consipation :rolleyes:

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I came across this. On this ongoing study of the MMR. Its this gastro thing that is the concern. Autism i believe is genetic.but why do people with autism suffer from these problems. Is it bad diets? Mine is the 36% constipation. I think from his limited selection of food in his diet,but i get veggies hidden in his food and he won't eat visible fruit and veg.He eats plenty of chocolate which can be a laxative and orange juice which helps and i get him to drink plenty.I stopped dairy milk and use soya milk and make sure he gets no aspertaim as well. This is what i found what do you all think? Do yours suffer from gastro problems too?

 

Background: Children with developmental disorders experience chronic gastrointestinal symptoms. Aims: To examine the nature of these gastrointestinal symptoms and histologic findings in children with autism spectrum/developmental disorders and ileocolonic disease. Methods: Chart review. 143 autism spectrum/developmental disorder patients, with chronic gastrointestinal symptoms, undergoing diagnostic ileocolonoscopy. Results: Diarrhea was present in 78%, abdominal pain in 59% and constipation in 36%. Ileal and/or colonic lymphonodular hyperplasia (LNH), defined as the presence of an increased number of enlarged lymphoid follicles, often with hyperactive germinal centers, was present in 73.2%. Terminal ileum LNH presented visually in 67% and histologically in 73%. Colonic LNH was multifocal and presented histologically in 32%. Ileal and/or colonic inflammation presented in 74%, consisting primarily of active or chronic colitis (69%). Ileal inflammation presented in 35%. Presence of LNH significantly predicted mucosal inflammation. Patients with ileal and/or colonic LNH had lower mean/median age than those without; patients with ileal and/or colonic inflammation had lower mean/median age than those without. There was a significant association between ileo and/or colonic inflammation or LNH, and onset of developmental disorder; plateaued or regressive onset conferred greater risk than early onset. Conclusions: Patients with autism or related disorders exhibiting chronic gastrointestinal symptoms demonstrate ileal or colonic inflammation upon light microscopic examination of biopsy tissue. Further work is needed to determine whether resolution of histopathology with appropriate therapy is accompanied by GI symptomatic and cognitive/behavioral improvement

 

This MMR link rumbles on doesn't it ? I read recently the system has again gone at the Dr who suggested a link and determined to prove he is a fraud and all sorts. Methinks they protest too much personally. Even the flu vaccination has many detractors and a lot of non take up, people have lost confidence in vaccinations, mainly because side effects are rubbished, and concerns not listened to, but people do not just take the word from the medical profession like sheep any more and will question, if these questions are ridiculed it invites non take up, silly and dangerous too. Sorry Doc you are going to have to spell it out....

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It's important to bear in mind that autism is highly unlikely to be a single condition with a known cause but rather a set of symptoms with a whole range of different causes in different people - some causes known, some unknown. I've just read Gillberg and Coleman's book "The biology of the autistic syndromes" published in 1992. At that time, behavioural characteristics that met the diagnostic criteria for autism had been found to be associated with disorders of all but three chromosomes, three disorders of amino acid metabolism, three of carbohydrates and fats, and five different viral infections. In addition autism had been reported in conjunction with 20 other developmental disorders.

 

In other words, the reason why autistic symptoms differ so widely is because different people with autism don't have the same autism. Ideally, every time someone is 'diagnosed' with autism, they should have a DNA test, plus a full medical work up and the results should be added to a database to try to track down the as yet unknown causes of the syndrome.

 

So there could well be genetic reasons why someone with autism has digestive problems - if they're not making enough of a particular digestive enzyme, or making too much of it or not making any at all, for example. There is no reason why some children should not have developed autistic symptoms after an MMR jab - it's simply very difficult to establish what caused the autism and whether or not that cause was the result of the MMR jab or not. It's certainly not a clear-cut case of 'MMR jab causes autism', nor, as far as I can see, is it a clear-cut case of 'MMR jab doesn't cause autism' either.

 

cb

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It's important to bear in mind that autism is highly unlikely to be a single condition with a known cause but rather a set of symptoms with a whole range of different causes in different people - some causes known, some unknown. I've just read Gillberg and Coleman's book "The biology of the autistic syndromes" published in 1992. At that time, behavioural characteristics that met the diagnostic criteria for autism had been found to be associated with disorders of all but three chromosomes, three disorders of amino acid metabolism, three of carbohydrates and fats, and five different viral infections. In addition autism had been reported in conjunction with 20 other developmental disorders.

 

In other words, the reason why autistic symptoms differ so widely is because different people with autism don't have the same autism. Ideally, every time someone is 'diagnosed' with autism, they should have a DNA test, plus a full medical work up and the results should be added to a database to try to track down the as yet unknown causes of the syndrome.

 

So there could well be genetic reasons why someone with autism has digestive problems - if they're not making enough of a particular digestive enzyme, or making too much of it or not making any at all, for example. There is no reason why some children should not have developed autistic symptoms after an MMR jab - it's simply very difficult to establish what caused the autism and whether or not that cause was the result of the MMR jab or not. It's certainly not a clear-cut case of 'MMR jab causes autism', nor, as far as I can see, is it a clear-cut case of 'MMR jab doesn't cause autism' either.

 

cb

 

Many cases of issues with vaccinations are accepted by the medical profession, there is no 100% with no side effect and collateral damage is accepted risk.... Some people WILL react badly to MMR or any other vaccination, NONE should be given without at least ascertaining the risk factor. I find the program of vaccination is haphazard and blindly undertaken at the GP, the swine flu jab e.g. was panned by doctors and nurses alike at the onset, 40% of nurses in the NHS refused it at the time. Mainly because they weren't convinced it was trialled enough, but they still demanded we take it. IF MMR triggers autism in some children then we need to ID the factors that do it, that means proper research without state hysterics no-one will then take it up, so shoot the messenger, and halt the research. We have to be grown up about addressing concerns, and grasp the nettle, perhaps if the media didn't enjoy scaremongering and acted irresponsibly we could do that. It is medias that are preventing advance in research,b y their Frankenstein column inch approaches...

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Completely agree. And successive governments haven't helped by making health issues political and making the column inches more important than people's health.

 

cb

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actually its the gastro problems i am interested in. I know autism is inherited,i only ahve to look at my challenges and my Oh and see the simular difficulites we have. My person after his booster did not regress or go in on himself. I don't know if there is a link with MMR and the gastro porblems,I doubt that too. But what interests me is the link of autism and tummy troubles. We don't get the diarrohea but the constipation.Yesturday he was straining and uncomfortable,today its runny stuff in his pants,which menas its constipation the runny stuff is going around the hard stuff. He has been on movial for the best of 2 years now,His diet is terrible,so i sometimes think its his problem. The school nurse says lots of fluid intake is the key to keep things going through so today he has had plenty to drink. Like most of you i am just a parent with very little medical knowledge and trust the experts when we go to see them. I hope as he gets older things will settle down and he will improve his diet and disgestion. I can only hope. :whistle: and :pray:

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actually its the gastro problems i am interested in. I know autism is inherited,i only ahve to look at my challenges and my Oh and see the simular difficulites we have. My person after his booster did not regress or go in on himself. I don't know if there is a link with MMR and the gastro porblems,I doubt that too. But what interests me is the link of autism and tummy troubles. We don't get the diarrohea but the constipation.Yesturday he was straining and uncomfortable,today its runny stuff in his pants,which menas its constipation the runny stuff is going around the hard stuff. He has been on movial for the best of 2 years now,His diet is terrible,so i sometimes think its his problem. The school nurse says lots of fluid intake is the key to keep things going through so today he has had plenty to drink. Like most of you i am just a parent with very little medical knowledge and trust the experts when we go to see them. I hope as he gets older things will settle down and he will improve his diet and disgestion. I can only hope. :whistle: and :pray:

 

 

Where is the proof of inherited Autism ? is there a DNA link ? what ? as I am aware GP's don't do that test, what would they be looking for ? I do family history for a hobby and have done for many years and NOT found any relative with autistic symptoms, whilst I haven't fully researched my partner's history so far nothing there yet either. What ARE the symptoms anyway ? most have been shot down as far too vague... aka 'loners', 'shy', 'single-minded', tick whatever box you think you are in and it can apply to everyone. If they knew what caused Autism there would be more research into alleviating the worst aspects of it based on a fact... not on an assumption. No one cause... whatever, if they include any more guesses (Or read the tripe from America), the whole area of research will be meaningless.... We are all autistic.

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Where is the proof of inherited Autism ? is there a DNA link ? what ? as I am aware GP's don't do that test, what would they be looking for ? I do family history for a hobby and have done for many years and NOT found any relative with autistic symptoms, whilst I haven't fully researched my partner's history so far nothing there yet either.

 

I think this is a really important point. Christopher Gillberg did some work some years ago showing a much higher incidence of autism in some families than you would expect to see by chance, so there's little doubt that some forms of autism are inherited. But 'genetic' doesn't necessarily mean inherited. A number of chromosomal disorders aren't inherited, but arise apparently by chance, and they are genetic.

 

What ARE the symptoms anyway ? most have been shot down as far too vague... aka 'loners', 'shy', 'single-minded', tick whatever box you think you are in and it can apply to everyone.
The description of the symptoms is only 'vague' if it's assumed that all cases of autism are caused by the same thing. If the wide range of symptoms that come under the umbrella of autism are caused by different things, then the focus should be on the symptoms shown by the individual. Gillberg and Coleman chose the term 'autistic syndromes' for the title of their book carefully.

 

Digestive problems in people meeting the criteria for a diagnosis of autism are well-documented and have been for some time. That doesn't mean that all people with those characteristics have the same digestive problems.

 

cb

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I think this is a really important point. Christopher Gillberg did some work some years ago showing a much higher incidence of autism in some families than you would expect to see by chance, so there's little doubt that some forms of autism are inherited. But 'genetic' doesn't necessarily mean inherited. A number of chromosomal disorders aren't inherited, but arise apparently by chance, and they are genetic.

 

The description of the symptoms is only 'vague' if it's assumed that all cases of autism are caused by the same thing. If the wide range of symptoms that come under the umbrella of autism are caused by different things, then the focus should be on the symptoms shown by the individual. Gillberg and Coleman chose the term 'autistic syndromes' for the title of their book carefully.

 

Digestive problems in people meeting the criteria for a diagnosis of autism are well-documented and have been for some time. That doesn't mean that all people with those characteristics have the same digestive problems.

 

cb

 

 

I think the current tendency to attribute faulty gentics as a cause of everything, is unhelpful and useless without fact to back it up, whilst DNA has been ID'd the gene interactions HAVEN'T. There is an concern everything is being written off as 'in the genes'.... to take away concerns environmental and immunisation issues may also contribute. Indeed may be the sole cause, not genes. I'm constantly astounded at the flood of imminent cures once they can mess about with the genes and put them in the right 'order'. Who is going to decide which is the right order ? Forget someone dropped you on your head when you were small, your great great grandad 50 times removed was very single minded....DOH ! If everyone was autistic bar 2 people who would have their genes altered ? yup the odd two....

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I think the obsession of the authorities to just pursue the Genetic cause, is preventing those, that with further investigation could have there problems lessoned or even for prevention of some ASD cases. Once your symptoms have been labelled as ASD, that's it, no further investigations. We are relying totally on some ones observations to diagnose very young children of ASD, then doing nothing more. I find it unbelievable that they assume that nothing can be done or further medical investigation is not required for these very young children. This is criminal , especially for those children who regress.

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I think the obsession of the authorities to just pursue the Genetic cause, is preventing those, that with further investigation could have there problems lessoned or even for prevention of some ASD cases. Once your symptoms have been labelled as ASD, that's it, no further investigations. We are relying totally on some ones observations to diagnose very young children of ASD, then doing nothing more. I find it unbelievable that they assume that nothing can be done or further medical investigation is not required for these very young children. This is criminal , especially for those children who regress.

 

 

Since we had our autistic son I've not met a single medical 'expert' who has any idea what we are dealing with, even dispensing medication without ever examining for an reason. "Oh that's autism..." what is ? Seems everything they don't understand is down to Autism and then, they can't describe what it is.... they are refusing to look further for other aspects that may trigger serious issues we have to face, not everything that happens is down to Autism... It's become an excuse to do nothing, and worse some opportunist parents are using autism as an excuse for their spoilt child's poor behaviour and their own non-extant parental skills... Nursery schools are reporting children turning up unable to speak properly, or communicate or relate to others properly, are violent and aggressive, because from day one they were sat in front of a TV and left to it... these children are NOT autistic.

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