Anger management for children?

[keepingmesane]

I had the most awful news from my eldest sons (7) teacher today. My son was being wound up by a girl on his table at lunch, he got so distressed by it he put his knife to her back and told her that if she didnt stop he would kill her

I feel absolutely gutted by this as he is such a lovely boy but i know that if he is irritated enough he gets very very angry and has been getting more aggressive with his actions. usually he will just shout at us that he wants us dead and he will kill us, but ive always ignored him as he knows that people react when he says this. but today is a different matter and i am worried that in a fit of anger, he could hurt someone without actually meaning to. He is a very gifted boy but just doesnt cope well with the other children at times

 

He knows what he did was wrong as he got sent to see the headteacher and they dealt with it very well, but he was distraught when coming out of school as he hates getting into trouble.

 

im going to speak to the teacher properly tomorrow about it all as i have been in shock since i was told

 

is there anything available such as an anger management course for children? something to help my son deal with his anger?

Its so frustrating as i cant get him to ignore the children who deliberately wind him up

 

any advice on how best to deal with this?

[justine1]

Hi

 

The thing that worked for my son was fixed term exclusions he had four of them in a space of 8 mths.He also needed more specialist input so was placed in an ASD unit and got his statement in October last year.

 

Also you could try social stories at home.

 

Good luck,I know how you feel <'>

[JsMum]

Write your concerns and suggestions in a letter and cc it to your sons Senco, Headteacher, GP and Manager of the SEN manager of special Educational needs in your local authority.

 

This way you are bringing your concerns to the attention of your sons school and local authority then due to this it should hopefully bring forward extra support for his emotional and social needs.

 

You could suggest to the senco social stories, social skills programmes and additional Anger management.

 

Your school may have access to councilling agencys also so it maybe he could access counsilling as well.

 

Is your son accessing any Childrens and Adolescence Mental Health services? you could request that your Senco refer him to look at further support for his anger throw play therapy.

 

It will be very difficult to access these services as i have had similair issues with J and we went down the independant road as it was urgent and he recieved five weeks of Psychotherapy via Art Therapy, it really helped J and in return really helped me too.

 

JsMumx

[Kazzen161]

If the school has an ELSA trained TA, then they can offer anger management training. This needs to be backed up by all other staff in the school too. If children are deliberately winding him up, they need to be told off, as it is unacceptable.

[baddad]

If the school has an ELSA trained TA, then they can offer anger management training. This needs to be backed up by all other staff in the school too. If children are deliberately winding him up, they need to be told off, as it is unacceptable.

 

Whoa... Children 'winding him up' would, of course, be unacceptable, but let's not project blame onto the girl here... I can't think of anything 'winding up-wise' that a seven year old girl could do that justified the response of a threatened knife in the back. I would say a big part of the escalation in his behaviour can be clearly attributed to the fact that when he makes such threats at home they are ignored rather than sanctioned. I'd also question the logic that suggests him threatening to hurt and then actually following through on that threat in anger would imply him 'not actually meaning to'.

 

That's not to say, of course, that 'anger management' couldn't help, but the obvious place to start would be with anger management at home and the absolute expectation that violence or threats of violence will not be condoned, excused, accepted or ignored. An ELSA trained TA (or any other professional for that matter) isn't going to make a blind bit of difference in a situation where the message being sent by the child's most significant role models - his parents - is that threats of violence do not carry any consequences, or where acts of violence on his part result in him being labelled the victim.

 

L&P

 

BD

 

Oh - Just thought. Another thing to consider is if he is actually having this type of behaviour modelled or normalised for him through movies, TV or video games... a child not capable of recognising the implications of violent/aggressive behaviour will only be even more confused by seeing such behaviour presented as acceptable entertainment.

Edited February 3, 2011 by baddad

[keepingmesane]

gee baddad... glad to see we are the bad guys yet again even though i have strived every day of my childrens lives to teach them right and wrong and do the best i can for them. i have in no way said he is innocent in this issue and do no condone what he has done today. The child who he had issues with today is no angel herself and is also a statemented child who does her best to cause as much problems as she can. Not an excuse, simply a fact! i aim to find out why no adult stepped in as i know that my son repeatedly asked and then shouted for her to stop doing what she was doing before he did what he did. It took him to go to extreme distress (something he has never done in his three years of school) before the lunch people stepped in to stop things

 

ok so you have only my post to go on, but to make such judgements about us and him is really upsetting and out of order!

I have NEVER let his autism be an excuse for his behaviour and up until today he has never caused any issue with anyone other than myself.

When he makes such threats at home, it is done to get a rise out of us. We have followed professionals advise on what to do on these occasions and removed him from the room whilst not responding to his attempts to rile us. His behaviour is then dealt with once he is calm enough to understand. what else would you have us do?

im so happy that when i ask for help and get told what to do by the people who are supposed to know, that i am now apparently incompetant as a role model for a boy who is excelling in all areas of his learning and up until today, his behaviour.

 

thanks to the two other members for the helpful responses prior on this post

 

dont worry baddad, i shall now retire back to slumping in front of the box to watch good old jeremy kyle with a box of fags whilst i neglect the welfare of my children (and just to add, we actually dont have tv apart from a few selected dvds we watch)

[baddad]

gee baddad... glad to see we are the bad guys yet again even though i have strived every day of my childrens lives to teach them right and wrong and do the best i can for them. i have in no way said he is innocent in this issue and do no condone what he has done today. The child who he had issues with today is no angel herself and is also a statemented child who does her best to cause as much problems as she can. Not an excuse, simply a fact! i aim to find out why no adult stepped in as i know that my son repeatedly asked and then shouted for her to stop doing what she was doing before he did what he did. It took him to go to extreme distress (something he has never done in his three years of school) before the lunch people stepped in to stop things

 

ok so you have only my post to go on, but to make such judgements about us and him is really upsetting and out of order!

I have NEVER let his autism be an excuse for his behaviour and up until today he has never caused any issue with anyone other than myself.

When he makes such threats at home, it is done to get a rise out of us. We have followed professionals advise on what to do on these occasions and removed him from the room whilst not responding to his attempts to rile us. His behaviour is then dealt with once he is calm enough to understand. what else would you have us do?

im so happy that when i ask for help and get told what to do by the people who are supposed to know, that i am now apparently incompetant as a role model for a boy who is excelling in all areas of his learning and up until today, his behaviour.

 

thanks to the two other members for the helpful responses prior on this post

 

dont worry baddad, i shall now retire back to slumping in front of the box to watch good old jeremy kyle with a box of fags whilst i neglect the welfare of my children (and just to add, we actually dont have tv apart from a few selected dvds we watch)

 

Bad guys? Who said anything about bad guys?

From your post - and kazzens response to it - I saw a seven year old girl being 'blamed' for a situation that culminated in her being threatened with a knife. Leaving all considerations of how 'angelic' or otherwise she might be (but given the new information that she is also statemented, isn't there a double standard implied here in the suggestion that she 'does her best to cause as much trouble as she can'? Perhaps she deserves the same kind of consideration you want for your son) I can't see any circumstances under which such an assumption of 'blame' as the one being made would be appropriate.

And yes, I did only have your post to go on, so if any of the factors I picked up on are 'wrong' that's probably the reason why. And my response is helpful - you may not like it, but it's absolutely realistic to say (based on the scenario as presented in your post) that no amount of professional input is going to help in a situation where the behaviours are ignored at home. I fully accept that some professionals do say 'just ignore bad behaviour' (even though it's been widely recognised that 'extinction' methods like this create as many problems as they resolve for well over a decade now), but I also accept that that suggestion is often wildly misinterpreted as meaning 'do not sanction bad behaviour'. The two things are completely different, as you yourself acknowledge in your latest post:

 

We have followed professionals advise on what to do on these occasions and removed him from the room whilst not responding to his attempts to rile us. His behaviour is then dealt with once he is calm enough to understand

 

The important bit, as you rightly say, is that the behaviour is dealt with at some point, and that certainly wasn't the impression being given in your first post...

 

TBH my reply was more a response to Kazzen's post which appeared to place blame for the incident on the victim (although, of course, as my first post says that doesn't make the girl winding him up 'acceptable', or indeed answer the new concern you've raised about why staff didn't intervene) but the situation described in your first post wasn't one that appeared to place any expectation on your son or to involve any sanction other than being sent to the headmistress. You do mention that he was upset because he 'hates getting into trouble', but again, that's a very different thing to feeling remorse or guilt over his actions.

 

The point I made in my PS was a valid one, and implied no 'judgement' about you or yours whatsoever. I wasn't saying he has access to these things, just highlighting that if he does it isn't going to help the situation. Many, many parents do enable very young, emotionally immature children with behavioural issues to access non age-appropriate games like GTA or watch films/tv programmes that glamourise violence and aggression...

 

Anyhoo... I'll bow out now, but hope you'll look again at my post in context. I have posted ton's of advice elsewhere on the forum on behavioural management strategies that don't rely on external agencies and that have proved very succesful in helping my son manage his own negative behaviours. My first advice, always, is clear boundaries and sanctions at home, and I hope you'll appreciate that wasn't what appeared to be happening from your original post or in Kazzen's subsequent post.

 

L&P

 

BD

[munty13]

You do mention that he was upset because he 'hates getting into trouble', but again, that's a very different thing to feeling remorse or guilt over his actions.

 

I guarantee that boy, once he calmed down, felt terrible remorse for his behaviour. I would go on to argue that remorse and guilt are not particularly constructive.

 

Speaking from my own experience, what happens is that the next time there is an outburst, the following remorse and guilt only get worse. The effect can be tortuous. Unfortunately, torturing oneself with guilt does not prevent the behaviour from happening again. Indeed, it will probably increase the amount of stress felt in the next situation. What ensues is a vicious circle.

 

Personally, being told-off in the normal way, did not work for me. I don't think it works for anyone with autism. Looking back, I was so ###### stubborn I'm not sure what procedure would have worked for me. I just know being spanked and shouted at does not work. Far worse however, the thing which drives me to despair, is a whispered insult.

 

Today, now I'm older, I like to have things discussed. Rather than someone being abusive, with no explanation, I prefer them to say that they are upset by something I did, and I should be aware of it (without the need for remorse.) This worked a treat for me. Obviously, for someone to admit that you have hurt their feelings, probably asks a lot - it makes a person feel terribly vulnerable.

[bid]

Personally, being told-off in the normal way, did not work for me. I don't think it works for anyone with autism. Looking back, I was so ###### stubborn I'm not sure what procedure would have worked for me. I just know being spanked and shouted at does not work. Far worse however, the thing which drives me to despair, is a whispered insult.

 

 

Um, I don't think anyone these days would advocate this as 'normal' telling off, especially for a child on the autistic spectrum.

 

What people here usually mean is giving the child very clear expectations and boundaries so that they understand what is acceptable behaviour, usually backed up with visual prompts, etc. Then making sure that there are clear consequences for unacceptable behaviour, which are always followed through. This would be balanced by positive reinforcers for acceptable behaviour. So, the consequences might be a loss of, for example, computer time/games console time. Positive reinforcers can range from collecting tokens for small rewards, or extra 'golden time' with mum or dad, etc.

 

HTH

 

Bid

[Kazzen161]

It is perfectly reasonable to suggest that a child winding another child up is told off - it is a behaviour that needs to be stopped just as much as a child needs to learn to manage their anger. I never said it was OK for him to threaten someone with a knife, but he is not going to learn better ways to respond without help (anger management training). It is also going to be important for the staff to play their part, as if they had intervened earlier it would not have got to this stage. Any anger management training would be shared with the parents, so they could reinforce the strategies.

[munty13]

I think anger management is a good idea. Anger can be so detrimental for relationships, and budding friendships. It amazes me how few times I see NT's display aggression. For them, aggression is taboo. I think that an anger management course should provide lessons on why it is that other children (and adults)like to wind each other up, and suggest ways of dealing with it. I would never suggest a kid with AS to try and mirror the behaviours. I am particularly good at winding people up, but lack the necessary humour to pull it off - so I come across as a total ######.

 

Um, I don't think anyone these days would advocate this as 'normal' telling off, especially for a child on the autistic spectrum.

 

My posts were more directed at baddad than anyone else, and his thoughts on crime and punishment. I find the whole mentality of "do the crime, do the time" very black and white, when everything is really more a shade of grey.

Edited February 3, 2011 by munty13

[baddad]

 

My posts were more directed at baddad than anyone else, and his thoughts on crime and punishment. I find the whole mentality of "do the crime, do the time" very black and white, when everything is really more a shade of grey.

 

Hi munty... my thoughts on 'crime and punishment' are pretty much those posted by bid:

 

...giving the child very clear expectations and boundaries so that they understand what is acceptable behaviour, usually backed up with visual prompts, etc. Then making sure that there are clear consequences for unacceptable behaviour, which are always followed through. This would be balanced by positive reinforcers for acceptable behaviour. So, the consequences might be a loss of, for example, computer time/games console time. Positive reinforcers can range from collecting tokens for small rewards, or extra 'golden time' with mum or dad, etc.

 

I agree totally about 'shades of grey' but think (along with most professionals) that it's actually the greys that confuse autistic kids, and that 'black and white' is generally much easier for them to understand and negotiate.

 

I'm happy to 'agree to disagree', but the mentality of 'do the crime do the time' is pretty much the expectation that peeps - even autistic kids - are expected to live to, and I think it's a very sensible one. Of course, children can be brought up in artificial environments that lower expectations, and adults can choose to lower their own expectations and construct artificial worlds for themselves, and that's fine too if that's how they choose to live or how parents choose to disable them... Personally, I think equipping children (or oneself) to live in the real world is preferable, and the advice i offer is largely based on the assumption that is what other parents (or people) want for their kids or themselves...

 

Hope that clears things up for you, but if not feel free to PM me or start another thread, because this is now something of a side issue to the issue posted about by the OP.

 

L&P

 

BD

Edited February 4, 2011 by baddad