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moncs

Aspergers in mainstream schools

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Since my son was diagnosed with Aspergers i have run into the many problems that parents face in education- lack of training,knowledge, resources etc, ~I have started a postgrad couse in Aspergers. My question is :-

What adaptations need to be made for a child with Asperger syndrome in mainstream schools?

I am about to write my first thesis and then I hope to provide a teaching pack for teachers . Is there anything that you feel is particularly important , any bright ideas or suggestions . As I am a teacher I am writing from a teacher and parents perspective .I would like more parental input as I feel we know our children best and know what we would like to see in the schools .

All ideas greatly appreciated.

Thanks Monica

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Hi

 

You've been there so probably know this! Encourage Teachers/TA's to talk to the parents - not AT them. A list of useful websites and upto date publications would be good.

Edited by phasmid

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Differentiate the circuluum!

 

Make english accesable by teaching in a way that can be accessed by those who are literal and offer a wide range of differant books in differant subjects styles...and type faces.

Offer books in PDF format on handheld readers for those who dislike paper.

LISTEN to the kids. Sam just fell for the 'Your happy aren't you Sam?' from his stupid SENCO who KNOWS he will ALWAYS answer yes to a question he has not understood. :angry:

Let them work at the level they are at.

In Sams case that means two levels below his peers in English lit and some aspects of English and about four years ahead in science and nearly the same in maths.

STOP making them do team sports when they say 'NO'.

A nice quite safe place to go to that they feel ALLOWED to use when they get overwelmed.

 

Consider letting them do part time schooling for subjects of real interest and let them plod away at home on english where kids like Sam feel safe to make mistakes.

 

Stop and think what colour is that classroom in is it one that kid finds awful. My lot are terrible in bright red spectrum colours but chill out in blue; do you have lots of distracting 'things' that make the kid obsess like that awful light or that huming heater or the seat and desk that are just not quite right for the working height.

 

Help them organise. Not in your face but coping stratergies that are made for each child.

 

Let them choose what they want for school dinners on a tick sheet for the entire week ...and MAKE sure its held nback for them. Sam tried to choose and found that what he wanted has been eaten by other kids. Meltdown.

 

Have a nice safe anger room or something like a zoom room that can be quickly adapted to let loose in when frustration builds with a punch bag and big cushons to SCREAM in.

 

Think about allowing them to use the disabled loo if they cannot face using the toilets at break.....that can save a LOT of frustration. Ever heard how noisy and echoey those rooms can be at break time.

 

I could say a lot more (you can tell that today has NOT been a good day and that if Sam refuses to go to school tomorrow I may well be agreeing with him after I call his advocate. He has written a resignation letter from school :tearful: and only just come from his hidey hole where he has spent the past three hours raging and crying and screaming about being bored and not listened to by THEM. Oh dear)

 

Birmingham City Council VTS autism and communication difficulties support in mainstream team have some excellant teaching DVDs.

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Thanks for replying Elouise, I've already got most of that . I liked the idea about school dinners. I was looking for any little extra suggestions that may make the children's time in school easier . I would like it to be positive as I feel teachers and parents have to work together to provide a happy safe environment for the children.

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All these things help my son...Visual timetables. A card to leave the playground when it,s too much. Access to his obsession for stress relief.Being allowed to talk about what is bothering him and someone listening.Consistency. Regular talks betwween parents and teacher. A quieter work area.Access to computer. We have just started a home-school book where we are highlighting triggers at home and school, this has enabled us to keep on top of any challenging behaviour.

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I think a major issue is for teachers to take on board that they may appear to be fine at school but they are not. Listen to the parents and take issues which may seem minor seriously. H has benefited from visual timetables and also knowing if changes are going to take place. If something different is going to happen then let the as child know exactely what this is. Be very sensitive about homework, this is a big issue i have with h school. He gets to much (he is 6) and it is always reading and writing which he hates. I could get him to do much more writing if we were allowed to do topic work on a subject that interested him.

 

Also allow for great variation of competence across subjects at push at subjects they are good at, and try not to pressurise about the subjects they are not. Sorry could go on all day but have to get H from the dreaded school!

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Fist of all I would like to thank the people who gave me some valuable ideas .

Quite often as parents on this site we criticise the school and teachers for their lack of understanding , support , and knowledge I could go on . This is why I was surprised when my post only got a few replies . Through my studies I hope to inform , change attitudes and promote good pracitce within schools in my area.

This is an opportunity as parents to let teachers know what is important for our children education and well being .

 

I am pussy footing about here trying to put this in a diplomatic way so I don't offend anyone . I am sorry if I do.

 

After reading all the upset and moans relating to schools I would think parents would be glad of the opportunity to tell schools what to do , what to try or what to implement. ,But the response tells me I am wrong we just like to moan about schools and nothing seems to change.

 

rant over .

Moncs

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I helped set up a support group with our Parent Partnership. We have for a long time now been trying to do the same thing. Unfortunately, even with Parent Partnership on board schools in our area mainly do not want to listen.

 

I took my son (nearly 16) out of his old school. The school was mainstream, but had an ASD unit attached to it. On his statement, this unit was named in part 4. Why then did the school not allow him to use it?

 

Why did he not receive social skills and self-esteem building which was also on his statement?

 

Why was his full-time LSA reduced by 50%. When his statement states full-time?

 

Why was he NEVER allowed outside at breaktimes?

 

Why was he NEVER allowed on school trips?

 

Why did my son try to commit suicide? His answer was that he couldn't cope with school.

 

I could go on and on. Believe me I tried to get answers from the school, their answer was..........' ***** just needs a kick up the bum'. He was discriminated against virtually EVERY day.

 

I hope that you can make a difference, I really do. but in our experience all it needs is one staff member that comes into contact with your child that thinks they can bully your child into being 'normal' or 'not believe your child has Asperger's'and your child doesn't stand a chance.

 

Annie

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Moncs, I am currently writting my dissertation on SEN focussing on parental and school staff views. The problem you might have is not everyone wants to 'talk' about things on a public forum. Perhaps an e-mail address to send info to you might illicit a better response. There are plenty of horror stories (and some good ones too) comming through to me on my questionnaire.

 

Just a thought.

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Thanks Annie , i appreciate what you are saying and I know it is hard my son goes to a different school from where I teach . I am up against a brick wall wilth them . They have no idea what Aspergers is and think they are meeting his needs . I on the other hand work in a school where great strides are being made to address the needs of children with additional neds. I was in a lucky position to be able to do this post grad and I have been amazed at what I have learned . (I don't want to get into the debate that teachers should have been given this training at college etc )

I started the course because I have to educate my sons school so I had to be knowlegabe first . I am in a position to do this being a teacher.

Annie you said something about it only taking one staff member that comes into contact with your child that thinks they can bully your child into being 'normal' or 'not believe your child has Asperger's'and your child doesn't stand a chance.

 

Since I have started my course I have had one teacher come to me for help and she has seen some progress. Also a classroom assisstant has asked for information so that she can learn too as she has seen an improvement in the above teachers class. In the staff room there are over 40 members of staff and the discussions we have had have been lively.

I am realistic and not expecting the moon, but this to me is a positive start.

 

 

Phasmid , could people not seen me an email like what you did?

Moncs

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Thanks Annie , i appreciate what you are saying and I know it is hard my son goes to a different school from where I teach . I am up against a brick wall wilth them . They have no idea what Aspergers is and think they are meeting his needs . I on the other hand work in a school where great strides are being made to address the needs of children with additional neds. I was in a lucky position to be able to do this post grad and I have been amazed at what I have learned . (I don't want to get into the debate that teachers should have been given this training at college etc )

I started the course because I have to educate my sons school so I had to be knowlegabe first . I am in a position to do this being a teacher.

Annie you said something about it only taking one staff member that comes into contact with your child that thinks they can bully your child into being 'normal' or 'not believe your child has Asperger's'and your child doesn't stand a chance.

 

Since I have started my course I have had one teacher come to me for help and she has seen some progress. Also a classroom assisstant has asked for information so that she can learn too as she has seen an improvement in the above teachers class. In the staff room there are over 40 members of staff and the discussions we have had have been lively. Hopefully I am raising awareness.

I am realistic and not expecting the moon, but this to me is a positive start.

 

 

Phasmid , could people not seed me an email like what you did?

Moncs

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first off- you posted your thread during all the forum mix up with times, etc; we did not see your thread at all (I'm on most days and being a teacher with ASD specialist knowledge I spend a lot of time in education)

 

My son has had all the problems Annie's has had including the bullying from a teacher (his form tutor) who could not see Com's disability and thought he actually had a good relationship with him :wallbash:

 

improvements need to be made in:

 

1. communication - at all levels but particularly with parents so that everyone knows a child's needs and knows who to call/what to do if there is a problem and that information is passed on properly even if they are someone who might only meet a child in the corridor (office staff?)

 

here's an example of appalling communication breakdown that happened yesterday:

 

the senco has been informed that Com does not feel or express pain in the normal way and that minor injuries need to be checked carefully.

 

Com hurt his finger at lunch time

 

he told his main LSA after lunch who looked at it and thought it was OK so told him to get on with his work, she did not record it in any way or inform me (she had not been told that he has an abnormal response to pain and that any expression needs to be taken seriously).

 

I didn't see Com till much later and we were halfway to the swimming pool when he mentioned his finger hurt. This was around 6pm.

 

it was extremely swollen and blue!

 

spent half the night in A&E

 

2. application of positive behaviour policies and the use of zero tolerance

 

Com gets detentions for things like:

 

not realising that 'be quiet' means 'stop talking', forgetting a book, failing to control his pitch and volume and 'behaving like a baby' when upset (in meltdown).....

 

when we asked for the policy to be adjusted to meet his needs so that he has appropriate rewards and sanctions - detentions make him suicidal - because the effect on Com was entirely negative and pushing his anxiety levels up to the point where he could no longer function properly in school or at home we were told that in order for the policy to be effective it had to be applied to all pupils regardless of need or disability

(we have now reached a compromise - after threatening a disability tribunal - and Com is withdrawn at the first sign of agitation before he is subject to the rules and teachers and senior management now allow his LSAs to manage his behaviour without interference)

 

given that Com's behaviour is exemplary when he is not under stress we actually find that Com does not need a behaviour policy at all if his anxiety levels are addressed - try getting a high school to get their heads around that one!

 

3. expectation

 

just because an AS kid seems to be doing OK doesn't mean they are OK.

 

expect high standards, expect different behaviour, expect to have to check up that things are understood, expect to have difficulty sometimes understanding where a kid is coming from, expect to have to look further than the end of your nose!

 

get used to questioning appropriately and explaining in detail.

 

another example:

 

In Sept. the senco in her wisdom decided Com was doing so well that she could quietly, with no preparation or consultation, remove some support hours.

 

In school it looked like Com was managing

 

until they discovered that, although he could manage academically, he had no idea how to do little things like organise himself to go to the toilet, or tell anyone that he had wet himself!

 

The expectation was that an eloquent, academic child knows how to ask for help!

 

Also don't assume that because an AS kid is academic and can do all the subjects well that just including him in the full mainstream timetable with any old LSA tagging along after him is meeting his needs.

 

Com needs - individualised PE/OT, small group social opportunities, space to chill out to avoid or come down from meltdowns, support for making contacts with potential friends, extra maths at an appropriate level (AS level in Y8), consistency of support (not so many LSAs - currently has at least 7)

 

this is really about a change in mindset and is probably the most difficult to achieve.

 

I could go on but I think thse are probably the things I would most like to see changed

 

Zemanski

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Thanks Zemanski, lots to think over ,

Through my stidies I have many strategies but I think what I am now looking for is things that as parents we experience that schools would not even think about or consider in the first place.

 

My son Alex has never enjoyed school shows they were always stressful for him now, that he has a diagnosis and we understand why he is stresed he had a different role this year as prop master . No stress and he was still able to take part in some way.

 

My class participated in a sports festival and within 5 minutes I spotted a child who I thought had Aspergers .Tihs was in a large sports hall with over 300 children . You can imagine the noise, the lights, the movement etc. When the child came to my group i aked his helper who was amazed that I knew he had aspergers but to be honest it wasn't difficult as he spent the day rocking whilst covering his ears . My point is the school did not apperciate or consider what that trip would mean for that child.Was he prepaired in advance ?, they could have possibly provided ear plugs, was a day too long? perhaps the child should have attended for half a day or better still invite the festival to their school and have a mini festival . I feel the school had many options but as a parent we are the ones who fully appreciate what it means .

Does this make it any clearer?

Monica

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Com went on the Y7 'reward trip' for good behaviour

 

he went, with over 200 teenagers in a stuffy bus to a theme park

 

what is a theme park?

 

a place designed to bombard the senses!!!!

 

When I complained that this wasn't a reward for Com the senco assumed I wanted him excluded from trips

 

took a long time to explain (eventually via the head teacher) that I do want him to go on trips with appropriate support (which was in fact in place on this occasion) as they are learning experiences and very important

 

just don't even imagine that a trip like that can be a reward for an AS kid

 

- mindset and expectations again!

 

Z

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I think Monica that many parents feel very disempowered when it comes to school - why should parents believe that they have the opportunity to "tell schools what to do" when schools often set up an adversarial relationship with the parents? by: fighting parents ever step of the way, do not recognise diagnoses, refusing to allocate resources even when pupils are on SA+ and statemented and the patronising attitude of some staff and SENCOs who really believe that AS/ASD is a parent led medical excuse for "naughty boy syndrome" or by teachers who give parents the "We know best - we are the experts" speech when they have probably only attended a ? day INSET on autism.

 

 

 

If you don't believe me: check out some of the threads here, especially Elles and also do a search for ASD on the TES site and see what sort of attitudes parents are faced with each day - and tell me how parents are going to feel that they are enpowered to advise schools. My personal favourite was a few months ago on the TES site where there appears to be a widespread belief that ADHD is an ASD!! Teachers had actually been taught this by SEN consultants on an SEN training course.

For example: http://www.tes.co.uk/section/staffroom/thr...&path=/Opinion/

 

 

As some people know I do not live in the UK at the moment - I live in another country. One of the things that amazes me is the amateurrism that pervades the UK ASD provision. The committement in the UK seems to be along the lines of "we belive in supporting SEN in mainstream as long as it doesn't cost anything". Some of the differnces that I have noticed which could be considered in Britain are:

 

* There is a legal right to assistance if there is a special need - you do not have to have a statement or diagnosis.

 

* Proper staff training:

- SENCO must hold a teaching qualification plus a post graduate SEN qualification (in the UK I have heard of schools where unqualified TAs and Cover supervisors are emlpoyed as SENCOs)

 

- Training for staff - it is unrealistic to expect that class teachers/LSAs will be fully trained for all the SEN they will ever meet in their careers but my AS daughters' class teacher and LSA get an hour a week training and supervision in AS - provided by the LEA SEN advisor where they can learn more about AS and can get practical advice on how to handle issues that arise.

 

* Partnership with parents - meetings once a month with HT, SENCO, teacher, LSA and parents to discuss issues - parents advice taken on board and not regarded as suspicoius - school cannot take any new action that is nit agreed by this group.

 

* That staff understand the stress points for ASD children and the importance of routine and forward planning for changes - they try to work around it - for example a quiet area or group room to chill out/work quietly and understanding that change needs to be planned in advance - interestingly once the child begins to feel that the enviornment is safe they begin to realax.

 

* That SEN in mainstream is allowed to cost money - my daughters' class has 3 SEN children and staffing relect this with a teacher (SEN trained) and 3 LSA's for 22 children

 

* Team working among the staff so that all have the same rules etc.

 

* Differentiation

 

* Supply and other staff also need to be briefed - what does being told to "behave" mean to an ASD child?

 

* Consideration when classroom is planned - we are lucky as most classrooms have an attached grouproom that creates a great quiet space

 

 

Even though all of this is place we have still had problems with the a year ago who refused to implement any of the strategies and never turned up to her training sessions. I can also echo many of the themes Zemanski has raised:

 

- injuries - my daughter has broken bones at school on 4 separate occaisions - only once did the school contact us - mainly as it was a very severes injury that resulted in a permanent physical injury and forced her to change writing arms - don't eve get me started on the meltdowms caused by that.

 

- "fun days" - where the usual routine is suspended are often not fun for ASD kids if they are chaotic - here proper support is needed

 

- Schools also need to get out of the mindset that being alone sometimes is necessary for AS children - had big arguments with "teacher from hell" who refused her access to the grouproom and wanted to "force" her to become normal

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extra maths at an appropriate level (AS level in Y8),

 

So can he do things like calculus and solving quadratic equations? AS level is quite remarkable for someone in Y8, most of which are still struggling with fractions and percentages. Has he been entered in for GCSE yet, or will the school only let him take it at the end of Y11?

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Com was demanding that his sandwiches were cut into 32 pieces so that he could calculate equivalent fractions at 2 years old.

 

by 6 he was discussing whether the numberline was, in fact, a numberloop because if 0 squared is the same as - 0 squared (which is where positive becomes negative on the line) then it must also join up at infinity as infinity squared is the same as

- infinity squared

 

when told that he could not do operations on infinity as it is not a real number his reply was that no numbers are real, just names for quantities and you could have undefined quantities

 

he was wrong but some thinking for a 6 year old :wub:

 

School have decided that GCSE will not suit Com because of his problem with showing workings so are putting him into AS classes next year without bothering

 

and yes he can already do calculus - his sixth form mentor this year showed Com his homework on differentiation.

They did the problem together

 

the following week Com showed R how to reverse the process - had figured out integration on his own!

 

boggles me!

 

Zemanski

Edited by Zemanski

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So can he do things like calculus and solving quadratic equations? AS level is quite remarkable for someone in Y8, most of which are still struggling with fractions and percentages. Has he been entered in for GCSE yet, or will the school only let him take it at the end of Y11?

 

Although it is important that the desire to get "pieces of paper" does not become another stress issue that sets the AS child apart.

Edited by puffin

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Puffin , I can understand why some parents feel disempowered but I will use all the positive replies that I can to raise awareness of AS. Through my presentations I aim to use all the ideas presented to me by parents, to help inform other teachers practice.Is this not empowering parents?

 

 

If you don't believe me: check out some of the threads here, especially Elles and also do a search for ASD on the TES site and see what sort of attitudes parents are faced with each day - and tell me how parents are going to feel that they are enpowered to advise schools. My personal favourite was a few months ago on the TES site where there appears to be a widespread belief that ADHD is an ASD!! Teachers had actually been taught this by SEN consultants on an SEN training course.

For example: http://www.tes.co.uk/section/staffroom/thr...&path=/Opinion/

 

Puffin you must think I am ignorant or can't read if you are directing me to a spcific thread or web site. I can read and I know what many parents and teachers attitiudes are . But I know for a fact that there are many teachers out there who like me are trying to make changes. If be it small .My biggest hate is when some people lump all teachers together .

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I'm not quite sure why you feel the need to be so defensive and agressive with me when this was a small part of the long post that I made - mostly made up of positive contributions to you request for ideas - I thought I made it quite clear that there is good practice and supportive teachers - but that there is no institutional structure in place to ensure that this is the case in all schools - for many parents good ASD provision seems to rest on the individual interest of individual teachers rather than good practice being a culture of institutionalised in schools.

 

It was not my intention at all to offend you but merely point out that many parents encounter the type of views expressed in this thread on a daily basis when they take their children to school - the real issue is changing the culture surrounding SEN in schools - telling teachers to use pictorial timetables will not help anything if the prevailing school culture in some schools (not all) is that an ASD diagnosis in some sort of medicalisation of poor parenting.

 

I am not sure exactly what your dissertation question is so it is hard to interpret what you want. I have to say that i am a little puzzled by your posts - on the one hand you claim to want parents' to contribute to your dissertation - but then you attack ASD parents for not replying and being moaners - and then when some of us do reply you complain that we have answered the "wrong" thing or have insulted you - perhaps a less confrontational approach might persuade more replies on this difficult issue or a more structured approach might help us give you what you want - it is a bit disheartening to take time out of my own working day to reply to you and then be criticised as a result.

 

 

I speak here as:

 

a parent

a teacher

and (currently) a dissertation tutor

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Moncs I have 2 statemented ASD children, the "success" or otherwise that they have had during their school years has been dependant on the teachers and LSA they have had. Some have been brilliant,understanding and interested, some of them couldn't give a s**t :oops: I don't know whether its common but both my kids suffer from really poor handwriting and presentation of work. This is not really in relation to their academic ability. We have managed to get for both of them an alpha-smart which is a small portable word processor. This has taken the stress off of themwhen asked to present certain work, they can just concentrate on the contenet rather than have to worry about the handwriting. We are at the moment trying to get a lap-top for my son for transition to secondary school. Also filling in particular work sheets where there is hardly any room for writing some LSAs will enlarge them some scan them so they can be filled in on the computer. My children respond really well to activities on the PC and the programmes can often be used to help their understanding of certain subjects, especially humanities. This is probably not news to you, but it certainly is to a great many teachers :wallbash:

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Hi Moncs,I replied to your thread earlier but just wanted to add a positive note, my son has enjoyed a great year with a Teacher fresh from uni.She has taken time to read books I have recommended, put into place many measures suggested by the autism team and made his life alot easier in school.However after having meetings with the LEA it appears the school have failed to meet important requirements in his statement. It has held him back greatly academically this year .My point is that the best teacher in the world who understands ASD aswell as all of us is fighting a losing battle if they don,t have the support of those higher up in the resources and money chain. There are great teachers out there I,ve met them , but I,ve also had the teacher from hell who provoked a referral to CAMHS for depression when my son was 7. Good luck with the research :thumbs: .

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Puffin, Com isn't interested in the bits of paper, nor are we - we didn't actively teach any of his maths; the sandwich thing at 2 grew out of me asking if he wanted halves or quarters and his understanding of negative numbers from a lift in a shopping centre where the floors are labeled 1, 0 and -1 (how many times did we have to go up and down in that lift? - you know what obsessions are like).

 

We didn't ask for him to skip GCSE or to do AS specifically; just to be taught at an appropriate level for someone who has been thinking algebraically since 4 or 5 years old - if Com is bored in maths or ICT he can become very difficult to teach across the curriculum and school has finally realised this.

 

very proud of his achievement though what i like most about him doing AS level is that he is actually going to be taught next year, by a teacher, in a class

 

This year he has been given a GCSE book and told to get on with it.

When the teacher explained proudly at parents evening that he was joining in with the Y8 class and seemed to be enjoying it Com put her right in no uncertain terms - she hadn't told him what to do for over a month, he had run out of what he knew to do and thought that if he did nothing he would be in trouble so the logical thing was to do what she was telling everyone else to do!

He wasn't very polite about it :whistle:

 

 

 

Com's ability with maths and IT are part of his special needs, I would rather he had high level extension than go for exams early but school don't know how to manage that - the sixth former did an amazing job for 2 years in 15 mins a week but he is now level pegging with them so it's not going to work for him much longer.

 

Com is generally academic but he still needs extra support for written work nad presentation, personal organisation, social communication and fine/gross motor stuff that he is way behind with.

As long as the work is at the right level and he gets his stamp for good work, he is happy.

 

I think recognising that our kids have stengths that need catering for as well as difficulties to be supported through is part of the issue with mindset and expectation - so few teachers seem to be able to get their heads around the idea that a kid with a statement can be G&T too.

 

I agree wholeheartedly with you about LSAs, LKS, Com's best years in school have always been when he had the support of someone who was openminded enough to try to see things his way - they are not the best trained but the ones that ask questions, communicate and try to understand

 

Zemanski

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Zemanski - That's really good that the school are supporting him in this way - on his own terms - that's what our kids need - their talents and problems given equal recognition. I think what I was trying to say - perhaps not very well - that both sides of our children need to be recognised - some schools seem to want to categorise by the "problem side" and not recognise the talents or the "gifted" side and then deny the problems olong the lines of that they are "coping academically so need no support"

 

My daughter is also very gifted at maths - although not in your son's league - but around 3 years above the rest of the class. The Teacher fromhell refused to recognise this and insisted in year 1 that she should do the same as everyone else - huge meltdown at being asked to do "numbers that add up to 10" when she was self taght in equations, adding minus number and multiplication. Any differation was only allowed when she had completed the other work - thus giving her the impression that being talented was bad as you had to do extra work yet be bored in lessons. Teacher from hell wanted to have her moved up to a class 2 years above her age to "get her through school quicker" but there is no chance that she would have coped with the social side as socially she was several years younger than her real age. However the current school have bought special material and developed a special learning plan for her - even importing a boy from another class for some lessons so that she can have a buddy.

 

She also becomes "teacher" sometime and gives the others maths lessons - we had a trial period in an SEN unit but it was not a success as most had a learning delay - she ran academic rings round the other kids - even those who were 7 years older - although she was popular as a homework helper.

 

I think that the mentoring idea is great - I wish that my daughter had access to this - i understand the problem with finding someone who can keep pace academically being a problem - our LSA is having problems keepig pace with the maths side - although wonderful at the social skills. Do you have a Uni locally that could provide a maths mentor - or could he do Open University courses if he is experienced at working alone?

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Puffin I would have responded to this as a personal message however by putting your comments on the thread everyone is able to read your negative comments about my studies .

Quite frankly this is a complete and utter waste of my time responding to you. However , I feel I need to address some of your points.

I was defensive with your first post and now your second post for for several reasons:-

If you had read the thread properly from the beginning you would see the structure and you would know what my question was and if you had read further on you would know exanctly what I was looking for .

 

Your post did not make it clear that there is good practice and supportive teachers .In fact the first two paragraphs did anything but.

Part of my reasearch will be to discuss the use of visual timetables etc as teachers with no experience with ASD will need to know this, but I was looking for :-

'Through my stidies I have many strategies but I think what I am now looking for is things that as parents we experience that schools would not even think about or consider in the first place.'

 

I am not sure exactly what your dissertation question is so it is hard to interpret what you want. I have to say that i am a little puzzled by your posts - on the one hand you claim to want parents' to contribute to your dissertation - but then you attack ASD parents for not replying and being moaners - and then when some of us do reply you complain that we have answered the "wrong" thing or have insulted you -

 

I was not attacking parents we all ,myself included have grievances with schools my point was if when you are given the chance to voice your opinion ie.what you would like to see schools do to help your child , why was there few responses? This puzzled me until Zemanski cleared that up . I also apologised at the time for not putting my thoughts in a better way but clearly you did not read that either!

 

I did not at any time say that someone had given the wrong answer .I thanked them and appreciate the time and effort they put into their replies I did however clarify what I was looking for so that others could follow the thread.

 

 

perhaps a less confrontational approach might persuade more replies on this difficult issue or a more structured approach might help us give you what you want - it is a bit disheartening to take time out of my own working day to reply to you and then be criticised as a result.

 

If you had left out your first two paragraphs I would have been thanking your for your comments .Perhaps if you had not begun your second paragraph rudly

 

If you don't believe me: check out some of the threads here,

I would not have been confrontational with you.

Don't bother taking time out to reply concentrate on your work and God help your students if you can't even read the question.

Moncs

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Nemo is Com's dad - see what I have to put up with :lol:

 

Puffin - Sounds like your daughter is pretty much like Com and has had similar experiences in school

 

Com was accelerated for maths only (whole school did maths first thing in the morning) and it was sort of OK but not entirely successful as he then had maths for 3 years with a teacher he didn't really like.

 

in Y4 Com was also teaching his class. It went really well for a while and he loved it but then he discovered he could make his audience laugh and numeracy became a complete circus :oops:

 

he also used to support classes as a tech when new hardware or software were introduced in the ICT suite and did much better at that as he wasn't playing to an audience but working one to one (quite often teaching the teachers :thumbs: )

 

there was loads of provision in primary school compared with high school - a G&T maths club on saturdays, robotics courses, graphics and weekly maths challenges

 

In Y7 though they just wouldn't believe he was that good and I had to really hassle to get the 15 mins a week with his mentor.

 

In Y8 it got even worse, no provision and no understanding and I finally had to go to the head to get them to assess Com beyond level 6!

That was when he was given the GCSE book.

 

The provision he is getting now has only just (in the last couple of weeks) been put in place with some starting up in Sept.

It is part of a package for Com that we have fought tooth and nail for over the last 6 months because he was in a critical state; depressed and suicidal - it was that or take him out of school.

we had to threaten tribunal, legal action and bring in the advisor before we got anything

 

the school has now done a complete about turn - the staff are getting training, Com is getting AS related teaching, etc and we're working on the dreaded communication which had become so bad that I had my heart in my mouth every time I saw a member of staff I knew because I was terrified of facing anybody - especially the senco and senior management.

 

It helped a lot that they are about to open the only autistic unit in the city next Jan and I think the advisor pointed out that they really need to show they can meet these kids' needs - they don't need bad press before it even opens :devil:

 

We did try the universities two years ago but they said he was too young for their established stuff and although they tried to set up a student to work with him it didn't happen - we'll see how he settles in next year before trying anything extra; he has quite enough on his plate coping with school for the most part.

 

Zemanski

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moncs Well that teaches me to give up my 30 minute lunchtime to respond to your thread - I applogise for wasting your time by trying to look at the wider context - that attitudes must be adressed along with practical measures- although i did make 10 points of suggested practical issues for dealing with AS in schools - but don't worry - i won't be wasting your time any more

Edited by puffin

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Moncs and Puffin - please forgive each other your misunderstandings and lets get back to the strategies and provision we were talking about in the first place

 

it is why we came to this thread in the first place and I seem to have got distracted too - sorry

 

>:D<<'> >:D<<'> >:D<<'> to both of you

 

Zemanski

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:( Please don,t fall out guys I,m sure if we were sat around in person together discussing this it would be obvious no one wants to upset or offend.I sometimes find it difficult to post here as sometimes the words used don,t actually convey the sentiment with which they are made. Lets get back to the thread, my sons lovely teacher has helped by using a visual timetable, cool off card for the playground, always warning of any timetable changes, home school diary, reward system, most of all the best thing she has done is listen.When my son is upset , alarmed or anxious she has taken the time to understand empathise and find a solution.He said the idea of the xmas party filled him with dread we discussed this and I took him home(in previous years he sat under a table). ........right of to finish the wine :wine: and watch Big Brother :thumbs: .

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OK sorry folks - am very tired - everyone thinks that working in a UNi is relaxed but there is constant pressure to meet deadlines for research projects or else you are OUT - plus the added pressures of an AS child who runs away from school when stressed - like yesterday when she vannished bacause no-one had warned her that they would be going to a different dinner-hall and her NT youger sister has required emmergency treatment for asthma and an wasp-sting allergy during the past few days.

 

Getting back to the issue - Some aspects that I have found useful (in addition to the previous post)

 

* sending a "this is M" letter to the school - outlining what AS is and what Ms particular issues are such as noise, crowds, meltdown and explaining how we try and defuse these at home - schools coulds perhaps have a proforma to encourage these explanations. (I also translated som information from this site into the teachers mother tongue on coping strategies - espeically the one on diversion strategies "the phases one - rumbling etc)

 

* agreement to a quiet place where M can go at anytime that she felt stressed and that the LSA would just let her go - started out as a swing in the playground but havs now moved to a group room

 

*That schools don't pressure M to join in with noisy/chaotic events such as singing or team sports - m is allowed to sit at the back and decide how much she wants to join in. This also applies to forced play and friends.

 

* Stress moments often include things like the dinner queue - the normal school rule is that the children have to stand in silence until everyone had washed their hands etc - but the school have agreed that M can go in with her LSA as soon as ready - the same in the morning - she doesn't have to be in the playground - she can go straight in with her LSA.

 

* She had a reading problem - in fact a year ago the school were complaining that M could not read at all - which was strange as she read very well at home - however we identified 2 problems that were resolved by teaching strategies.

 

First - the the teacher from hell insisted that all children must stand and read aloud to the whole class - you can imagine how that went down - LEA advisor backed us up that M should be allowed to read alone to her LSA if she wanted.

 

Secondly: the content of the reading books was almost exclusivley fairy stories - but these can be hard to interpret as often the issues are implicit rather than explicit - why are witches wicked? why was the princess afraid? So with our advice th school manged to include some more straight forward fiction - everyday life stories and factual books on wildlife etc.

 

* Preparation for any planned changes - her class move to a different building next year - the SENCO made a "Virtual tour" using a digital camera on the computer - and she has been able to make several visits both alone and with the class. Also that the school let us know if there are going to be any changes so that we can prepare and remind her of the change in routine.

 

* She was having trouble staying on task - sometimes she has trouble for working for more than short blasts - so after discussion at the monthly meeting suggested a timer - it started with a kitchen timer - but now school have bought a fancy SEN timer for some incredible amount of money - there are 3 coloured buttons that set off a timer for 5, 10 and 15 minutes - the LSA explains that each colour has a different reward - to play a game/ go out for a short walk, get a sticker or save for a mystery prize - she can decide what legnth of time - she really liked this and saved up for the mystery prize - we are now the proud owners of a Harry Potter storage box!

 

* many AS children prefer computer working.

 

*Correct differentiation - helps to prevent meltdowns

 

* LSA has introduced some activities such as board games, art and crafts etc which gives her a chance to socialise within an environment where there are rules.

 

*Consideration of PE strategies - M prefers individual events rather than team games - school has tried to ensure a mix.

 

* Some ASD children like social stories - but M hates them with a passion - usually runs off screaming - I don't want to hear this - I think that she recognised they were about her - although it is an accepted strategy staff ahve agreed to use direct explantions that seem more effective.

 

* We gave all the teachers and LSAs a copy of the "The curious incident of the dog in the night-time" (translated) that I bought on the internet for �3 a copy - not perfect but a starting place to understanding.

 

 

Anyway I hope that this helps and good luck with your own research project

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School have decided that GCSE will not suit Com because of his problem with showing workings so are putting him into AS classes next year without bothering

 

I think I know what this means. Despite being a maths wizard myself - although probably not to the same extent as Com - I only got a B at GCSE because I was so advanced I saw through much of the detail that examiners were looking for. The coursework was another problem in that the investigation (a number series) was not solvable using just GCSE knowledge yet I solved it in less than a day after the paper was given to me.

 

I could do 3D trigonometry and solve quadratic equations when I was just 8. Much of my mathematical knowledge from then on came from my interest in electronics. By the time I was 14 I could do differentiation, integration, matrices and complex numbers.

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some schools seem to want to categorise by the "problem side" and not recognise the talents or the "gifted" side and then deny the problems olong the lines of that they are "coping academically so need no support"

 

I think this is a common situation as gifted and talented usually just means excelling in school subjects or in artistic and musical areas. If one possesses a high level of knowledge in something academic that is outside of the school curriculum, then quite often it goes by unnoticed or is simply seen as a sideline. My expertise when I was at school was electronics and computer programming yet my potential was totally untapped and largely ignored by the school and LEA.

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B)

 

here are a couple more

 

we made several props for Com when he started high school - they all fit into his bus pass holder that he keeps in his pocket

 

1. a mini timetable with all lessons, rooms and teachers - doesn't have to keep getting his organiser out!

 

2. mini map of the school - scanned from a leaflet and shrunk down, all rooms labelled (Com can't find his way round a room let alone a high school :P )

 

3. photo album - double sided, 4 to a page - important faces with names and subjects/jobs

 

you could use the same idea for other things like perhaps a list of what to do ifs: if you are lost ...., if you feel ill .... etc

 

how about a list of teachers/staff and where to find them if needed

 

Com also keeps his passes with his bus pass - they are:- a red card to let the teacher know he needs the toilet, a green lunch time pass so he can use the special needs room or library whenever he wants to and a blue 'time out' pass to show if he needs to leave a room (he does not even need to speak if he doesn't feel able)

 

 

a digital recorder is very good for teachers (and parents) to record homework and comments - a child can hand it over at the beginning of a lesson at high school or do the recording themselves as appropriate.

It can also be very useful for children to record their thoughts and worries.

I have heard that some schools don't allow these as staff are worried they may be recorded out of context

 

 

Zemanski

Edited by Zemanski

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Thanks for the useful comments Puffin ,and i apologise too it is often difficult to read the intentions behind the written word!

 

I particularly liked your point about transitions . This year in June I had to raise this subject with my sons school and the EP they had not even thought of this . My son believes because he is getting a new teacher in August he will never see his present teacher again . i had to explain this to the Head and outline the steps that should be taken before the next school session. I had not thought about a virtual tour . Great idea, perhaps the child could make it next time?

 

The timer is also a useful strategy I am considering buying one called a time timer but as you point out they are very expernsive the smallest costs �18.95. i can see many uses for this both at school and at home.

 

 

There are many key strategies that teachers can adopt in thier class i will discuss these in my thesis but it is is noticing the little things that can have a major affect on our childs school life, that i am interested in . I love the quote from Lorna Wing:-

'Parents develop a deep knowledge of their own child while teachers develop a broad knowledge of many children.'

 

.Even the best school could make every effort to apply strategies but they need to understand the nature of AS and how it affects each child differently.Or else all the best strategies are worthless.

eg.

 

There is a breakfast club in my sons school but he won't go near it. He stands at the fence and watches the children . this is obviously a time of stress and worry to me although Alex doesn't seem overly distressed. My concern is that this is one area where Alex stands out from the crowd as he doesn't participate. The school are aware that Alex doesn't play so they should be looking for ways to involve him to further his social skills.

 

Come as you please day might sound like fun but my son was distressed. He wanted to put his school clothes in his bag incase he was wrong , or it was a trick.This could have been reinforced the day before . Alex was stressed because he doesn't understand the days of the week and he was scared he would be the only one dressed in play clothers.

The teacher should have been aware because this was outside his routine that there was the possibility of problems.

 

These are 2 examples of what affects my son . If i did not raise issues like this with the school they would have no understanding of Alex.

I am sure Alex is not alone in being stressed by some of these issues . These issues are equally as important as using a time timer, social stories etc

(Can you tell I like the work Issues ?)i think these examples may give a better insight into our children . What do you think?

Monica

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Great ideas for secondary and I can see how they can be adapted for primary.Someone suggested the other day that a picture of the class teacher can be put on the doors . this is a great idea for many children as they may have trouble remembering names.

 

the photo album is a similar idea photo of nurse, , guidance teacher, etc.

thanks this list is getting bigger and bigger I hope parents are copying them for next term.

Mocs

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Com didn't have much in place in primary as he didn't get his statement till 18 months before he left and funding took another few months followed by this wonderful expert LSA with oodles of ASD experience not turning up and phoning in a couple of weeks later saying she had found another job - terribly sorry :wallbash: so it obviously took a few more weeks to readvertise, etc. but he did get some informal provision like being used as a messenger so that he could get to know his way around the school - they would try something out and if he liked it then it would continue, again he had an excellent LSA (local punk rocker complete with green mohican and piercings :dance: ) who just had that feel for him.

 

by the time Com got his support in place in primary it was already time to look at transition so I'm more up to speed on high school resources.

 

about the photo thing - Com doesn't just not remember names, he doesn't recognise faces - at all

 

he doesn't register hair, eye colour, skin colour, body shape, clothing, glasses, beard - nothing

 

one of the least prejudiced people I've ever met

 

after 6 years in the same tiny class of 16 kids (one of the reasons we chose that school for him, inner city mainstreams are usually so much bigger) Com could identify 8 children by name.

 

last year I almost got myself in serious hot water when I made a complaint about something that happened in school.

Normally I would go first to his main LSA but this time Com had said D wasn't there and that his LSA was a woman and blonde so I went to the senco.

 

turns out that D had been there and was sat next to him all lesson, not talking to the teacher on the other side of the room as Com had described (must have been a different lesson). He had even recorded the incident but then forgot to give Com his book back.

 

D is over 6 foot, with black hair (and clothes to match) and built like a rugby player - you can't miss him! definitely not female :lol:

 

Zemanski

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Re: the timer - it does not have to an expensive one - the LSA tested the idea with a supermarket bought egg timer (about �3) - before they invested in the SEN timer - it didn't really make so much difference - although it could be useful for those children with more serious learning difficulties.

 

The transtions thing can be tricky - we had suggested that the new teacher pay a visit to the class - this proved a great success with the other kids but M would not speak to her. Then the LEA autism advisor had the idea that new teacher could try to engage with one of Ms special interests. So next time NT came - she brough photos of her pets - this did the trick and M talked a lot.

 

 

We have managed to get M to go to the afterschool club - she gets 1:1 there as well. However the first club we tried was not a success as there were 70 children in one big hall - too much noise overload. However the club moved to new premises and we manged to have an input into the design - the LEA had planned to knock down all of the walls to create a "large fleible space" - however we pointed out that not all children can cope with continuos socialising - so they have created one large room and kept about 4 very small room for quieter activities

 

 

 

:oops:

 

I'll try and post more later but need to shut down - power going down from thunderstorm

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a digital recorder is very good for teachers (and parents) to record homework and comments - a child can hand it over at the beginning of a lesson at high school or do the recording themselves as appropriate.

It can also be very useful for children to record their thoughts and worries.

I have heard that some schools don't allow these as staff are worried they may be recorded out of context

 

My parents bought me a dictation machine back in 1986 in the attempt to improve my writing because I could say something but had difficulty getting it on paper. It was very useful and my writing began to improve as a result, but sadly my school would not let me use it in class. The teacher claimed that talking disturbed lessons and that the machine attracted attention of the other kids who wanted to use it as well. My parents had a word with the LEA about it but they were not convinced that I really needed it at school.

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one of the few good things about Com's statement is that it doesn't just specify an LSA but also that he has access to someone he trusts and can communicate with - someone prepared to share those special interests and be bored out of their skull whenever required!!!

 

which reminds me:-

 

with the first child I taught with an ASD (undiagnosed and unsupported), when I knew virtually nothing about it, I had to take that role as he didn't like the LSA in my class - she was in her sixties and really didn't have any idea how to approach him at all.

 

I used to try to play with in the playground - mostly follow my leader type games where we could take turns (important to give the child opportunities to be in control) and where I could gradually introduce him to another child. I had never seen him interact positively with anyone else till then.

 

he was hyperlexic and could write at level 4 at 5 years old but had been refusing to write in class.

First I discovered he would write all day if the task was right so when everyone else was doing ' I was walking down the road when suddenly ...' he did ' the pony was galloping across the field ...'

then I found that he had a problem turning the page and would stop mid-sentence so I used to give him a double page spread but that wasn't enough so we ended up with a double page spread in an A3 art book with hand ruled lines - the joy of tapping into special subjects.

 

I also set up learning mentor sessions with the other child (a boy that had shown willing and interest in being his friend) to do my little pony themed interaction - they made puppets and wrote little plays, they made reins and saddles, they built them a stable, downloaded colouring pictures from the internet ....

 

I discovered that he was happier sitting apart from the other children on the carpet and liked to have a special place and that if I held him back when the class went off to a task I could take time to give him more detailed instructions and then when the class was quieter he could settle to work.

 

To help him recognise his classmates I had the kids take each others' pictures and put them on a smilely face chart on the wall near where he sat - it was his job to draw a face in the right row whenever I gave someone a 'smile', he was absolutely meticulous about this

the person with the most smiles got to be star of the day and sit on a nice chair.

 

one of his problem behaviours was that he would wander off if you didn't keep your eye on him and this was exacerbated by our open plan setting!!!

the main problem with it was that he didn't respond to any other teacher except with a meltdown so I had a special arrangement with the 2 other teachers in my base and they would take my class on between them at the drop of a hat, as we worked to the same plans this usually went pretty much without disturbing anyone.

Fortunately he usually ended up joining KS2 lessons in the computer suite next door, unfortunately he was a complete b***er to disconnect from a PC once he got on it - had to keep the mainslead to the classroom one in my drawer except when it was in use.

 

learned a lot in that year!

 

mostly I learned to be very, very flexible.

 

Zemanski

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