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moncs

Aspergers in mainstream schools

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PS this was a kid I taught in my first class, over 20 years ago, and left the country 2 years later -the computer suite had 4 BBCs!

Edited by Zemanski

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A BBC ? what is that ha ha

Your showing your age

I think what teachers need to understand that some strategies will work for some children and not for other. And a stratergy that worked this week might not work next . Again you hit the nail in the head teachers have to be flexible.

Monica

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Puffin I thought more about your comment on open plan areas. in SCotland there is a big drive for open plan schools and joint campus' I teach in a newly built joint campus school . It has only been opened a year and I see how difficult it is for my class never mind for a child with AS. Too much noise, movement , bright lights that can't be switched off , phones in class, computers on in the next class,I could go on .There is no provision at all for quiet areas. The whole exercise is a cost cutting exercise,and lack of foresight with the planners and education department.

 

I don't know if any other areas arefacing the same difficulties.

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In Leeds the opposite is happening - the open plan school I worked in has had walls built over the last 3 years to separate the classes.

 

the problem I'm seeing is that the size of classrooms is getting squeezed so there is no room for all those bays and group areas that we used to use and that gave our AS kids safe havens in an alien environment. In a KS2 classroom you are lucky to have a reading corner these days.

 

Zemanski

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Hi Monica

 

I have just read you message, I have daughter who has aspergers she will start school in September. I feel that the school she is going to have worked hard with her keyworker from nursery arranging special visits for her to experience the classroom and daily routine before she starts. We have fought for her keyworker to go with her as she has over 2 years experience of working with our daughter. The reception class teacher has made contact with another school who have experience of dealing with aspergers. The main problem comes from the local authority with people dealing with her case that do not know the complex workings of a child with aspergers and to quote "times she will be expected to sink or swim"

 

I have had alot to do with her new school and teacher advising them on how to deal with my daughter, especailly on the verbal comunication. The main source of asperger knowledge will be our daughters key worker.

 

This many not be what you are looking for but if you have any questions I will be happy to answer them.

 

Marie

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It is now nine years since I left school where I suffered many terrible experiences. The most traumatic of all of these, which I remember still with the greatest anger, was compulsory dancing. If there is any lesson I can give you, NEVER force dancing practise upon anyone, least of all on those with social interaction conditions like Aspergers. Being a school outcast is quite bad enough anyway without teachers imposing this ritual humiliation on you.

Every aspect of dancing, which although it only took place in Decembers I would spend the rest of the years dreading, was sheer torment for me. Being the last to be chosen was bad but having to select a partner was an absolute nightmare. Even when there was only one girl left and I had no option but to pick her she would still be as nasty as possible about it. In fairness, having to dance with me must have been a disgrace in its own right because I could never remember the steps, and would literally collide with other dancers when going in the opposite direction to them. (My working memory is nowhere near so good as my long term memory at the best of times, never mind when I am being tormented out of my wits, so I never learnt anything positive.) The teachers were victimising the girls they forced me to dance with as well as myself. Adults only dance on a voluntary basis and it should be the same for children and teenagers. Could it even be a 'milder' psychological form of rape to force anyone, never mind a teenager with Aspergers in front of thirty contemptuous 'normal' teenagers, to dance against their will with someone else?

I am defiantly proud to say that although I was usually well behaved in all my school years except in primaries 5 and 6 after moving house and schools, and though I never skipped any other class, I did skive off several dancing periods. When the school presumed to discipline me for this rebellion against their torture and I then asked to be excused the torment of dancing in future, the assistant head literally sniggered at me. I have remembered him with utter contempt ever since. The teenagers had the excuse of being teenagers. There was no excuse for any of the teachers involved, least of all for the one who found something funny about it.

Edited by hopeful

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The same also applies with PE lessons. I was particularly hurt when my special needs school focused primarily on team sports rather than on physical exercises. They even called PE games rather than PE. I was expecting that because the school was exempt from the National Curriculum, it would tailor lessons to the ability of people, but the headmaster had a great love of team sports so thrusted his interest upon everybody whether they wanted it or not. To add insult to injury my mother would not send a letter to the school exempting me from team sports because she claimed it was good healthy exercise whether I liked it or not.

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PT, which should be optional, could often be a hard time for me. Dancing was just the worst PT activity.

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just got Com's school to exempt him from 'mainstream PE' because difficulties with team sports and just the level of physical prowess that is required to do the activities without embarrassment - you really should see Com try to do a forward roll or kick a ball, no wonder the others don't want him on their teams!

 

the school thought they could use the time for the lifeskills etc that he needs but we wouldn't let them (he needs the exercise just not the humiliation) so finally they have set up proper individualised PE for him with another autistic/dyspraxic kid - they may even get OT when I'm finished with his statement next term! :devil:

 

Zemanski

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I think that school PE is too heavily biased towards team sports. I would rather have had Dynamo Digby off the Grimley's than forced to play football.

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The optimum level of physical exercise for an individual is good but no-one of any age should be forced into any activity, like dancing or team sports, with the potential for psychological humiliation. Any other policy is downright evil.

Another problem I had with some PT instructors was that they thought they knew better than my mother whether I was well enough for PT or not. The head PT instructor once started yelling at me when my mother had written a note informing him that I had the cold. My mother wrote a lot of these because as a child and a teenager flu and asthmatic problems were a serious nuisance for me.

Edited by hopeful

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I became statemented at 8 and my statement was circulated amongst various education specialists at my LEA, which resulted in a number of unkind letters being sent to my parents.

 

One of the specialists couldn't believe that an 8 year old boy didn't like football and thought that I must be a very strange person. He also suspected that I was just putting it on simply to be an attention seeker or just downright wayward as I got a thrill out of deliberately being different to my fellow classmates. His solution was for me to join a local team, start playing and enjoy the game whilst making some new friends.

 

Another specialist was concerned at my clumsiness and ineptness at PE lessons, but was particularly moved when he read that I couldn't ride a bike and that my handwriting was a scrawl. His only explanation was that I was disabled and should receive disability treatment. However, my GP had not diagnosed me as disabled and my mother flatly refused to believe I was disabled in any way. Perhaps it might have been better if dyspraxic was used rather than disabled.

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I know quite a few boys of that age(my son's mates) who don't like football,they're all NT ! My son is football mad, thinks he's going to be a goalie when he grows up (not with those knees!)

Dynamo Digby, he was hilarious, mine were more like the PE teacher in 'Kes', played by Brian Glover, and that's just the women !

I don't think any child should be forced (in my case physically) to take part in any PE activity, especially if it's to provide a laugh for the other kids.

My own theory on this is that fizz ed students get the p**s ripped out of em so much at uni that by the time they leave they just want to wreak revenge on lesser mortals (ie. pupils ) It's just bullying in an official form.

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Yes thats right waccoe, you tell 'em! I really enjoyed your jibe about the PT instructors! I would just describe PT as a form of supervised playtime for the physically strong and socially adept, in which those of them so inclined get opportunities to victimise those who are weak in terms of physique and/or social interaction abilities, and with the biggest bully of all in ultimate charge. (Compulsory dancing remains the ultimate example of PT horror in my own personal experience.)

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Two schools ago, a very kind child decided to try and help my boy enjoy football.

 

They were only 6 at the time - so quite resourceful I thought.

 

It was a three player game so that Jordan would not get flappy about lots of people running about.

 

It was a great success :blink::whistle::whistle::blink::blink:

 

My son was absolutely delerious with happiness at being included.

 

He was put into goal. When I asked him if he let any goals in , he replied

 

"of course I did, Mum" :lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

HelenL

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My son has absolutely no interest in football whatsoever. We tried when he was younger and he went to the after school football club for a couple of terms and we bought him the latest England kit (my husband is a big football fan). J only wore it a couple of times, he didn't like the feel of the silky material on his skin, still doesn't. I remember being over the park and some other kids asking him if he wanted to play football. OK he said, I'll be the commentator!! He proceded to sit on top of the climbing frame with a pretend microphone in his hand while the other boys looked on as if he was some kind of nutter. He was oblivious to the stares, as far as he's concerned football has linesmen, referees and commentators, what's wrong with wanting to be the commentator??!! He wouldn't be told any different.

 

Lisa

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My son keeps asking me to buy him a referee's handbook, no way !

I'm not giving him any ammunition to argue every foul any more than he does already.

He's now goalie for a local under 10's team, 3 years ago he detested footie, couldn't run, couldn't catch.

He has season ticket and would commentate for the whole match when he first went. he would hide under his seat if action at other end of pitch.

He's now learned how you act at footie match, and fits in generally, I'm sure this involves swearing at the ref like dad, but they won't tell me !

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Thanks for all your responses , in my thesis I have outlined the need for teachers to understand the social and sensory demands that are placed on children when involved in extra curricular activiteis or events that are not part of the school routine. Concerts, outings, visitors, school shows etc. I will include social dancing , Christmas parties .

Before the end of term I too,k my class to a tri golf tournament . There was over 300 kids in a large open hall , lots of noice and movements. I immediately noticed 1 boy standing with his hands covering his ears. you can guess what I thought. When the boy and his carer came to my group I asked the carer is he had As and she was astonished that I could tell . It wasn't that difficult . My point is the school did not take into account the child's needs for this activity. Or perhaps they did not have a full understanding of the the child's needs and what the implications of them were. But I feel this is a serious area that needs addressed. There were many options available to the school yet none were taken.

Sorry for spelling mistakes I am too tired

Monica

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Schools can underestimate the potential of kids. My first secondary school was very dubious about allowing me to attend a residential trip because of my behaviour which could be described as mischievous, unco-operative, and wayward. Also, certain physical activities such as tree climbing and an assault course were seen as possibly unsuitable because of my inept performance in PE lessons. I attended the trip and the teachers were pleasantly surprised with my behaviour and co-operation.

 

The same school also arranged a meeting for my parents because of problems and they asked my parents what I wanted to do in the future. They said that I wanted to work with computers which resulted in a torrent of laughter from the teachers who considered a circus clown to be a more appropriate choice. IT or computing was not a timetabled subject, and many of the staff were unaware of my knowledge of computers including programming.

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You know getting schools to realise that there is no such a thing as a stereotypical

autistic child would be a good start. The training on offer to schools is so ridged in its teaching that some teachers I've encountered think that because 'Little Johnny' doesn't go spinning around the classroom as soon as things go wrong that our kids have been mis diagnosed and are acting up.

 

Consistancy is another one. I have come across so many schools, including the one my son is at, that make allowances for his autism when it is convienient and at other times he is behaving the way he does on purpose, or because he wants to upset the class.

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Monica

 

Did you complete your thesis ? I would love the opportunity to read it,

 

I should say that my wife is the leader for learning / deputy head of an international school hear in Amsterdam. This year she changed schools this year to be closer to our boys , last year she was helping a boy who is trying to main stream hi international baccalaureate diploma. Although she is no longer responsible for hip we are keeping contact with him and the old school to he Although help with the continuity. Anything that might help is always welcome

 

Julian

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I think the main problem is that we seem to encounter many teachers with views like this:

 

Children who have been labelled ADHD or as having Oppositional Defiance Disorder or Conduct Disorder have sometimes felt relieved at this "explanation" for their behaviour. Others have used it to justify it: "I can't help it - I'm ADHD". But, either way, this is disempowering; it suggests that they can't do much about their behaviour.

 

The evidence for a biological basis to these disorders is inconclusive; all we have is a set of behaviours that occur with a certain regularity. There is no proof that schizophrenia exists, yet it has become culturally accepted as a recognised condition and the same is rapidly becoming true of less problematic disorders.

 

The term "disorder" is damaging in that it reinforces the notion that there is something wrong with the child, rather than something different.

 

Children are now expected to perform in certain ways and at certain stages according to criteria decided for them by the Government; if they deviate from this, parents are advised to immediately call in the psychologists for a quick diagnosis of the problem. Your child is shy? Asperger's Syndrome.

 

Aggressive to others? Conduct Disorder.

 

What is more alarming is that brain-scan technology is advancing and we may yet see pre-birth diagnoses of brain disorders - a brave new world that only a writer of Aldous Huxley's calibre could have imagined. In the meantime I suppose we just keep taking the tablets.

 

Mark Edwards is a former headteacher. He is now a writer and counsellor, working primarily with vulnerable young people .

 

from TES Opinion

 

and this:

 

As a Supply teacher I am often given ADHD (or another set of letters that the pupils have no difficulty learning) as an excuse for bad behaviour. On one occasion a Year 6 boy said he had not had his Ritalin. I said, "Forget about the Ritalin. In my class you do not behave like that." This worked! On another occasion I was told that a particular girl had been diagnosed with one of these things and could be difficult. She was actually all right UNTIL her 'special needs' assistant came into the class room. At which stage she played up badly. A simple quiet talk worked with another boy. The point to me is that if these techniques work (and I am not saying that they always do - or even almost always) how can we say that the child has a 'disease' or a 'disorder'?

 

TES staffroom

 

Makes me want to cry :crying::crying::crying::crying::crying::crying:

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streamdreams I've completed the first part and about to begin part 2 which is more class based . hopefully this will be the most practical part too. Thanks for your interest . I think we need to give teachers knowledge and practical strategies they can try . Bearing in mind these might not work. A big change will be the teachers methodologies ( I am hopeful that if teachers know why they have to adapt then we may see a more productive education for our children)

Monica

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I recently did an SEN Audit of the school where I am a Governor. Some of the comments did amaze me - the majority of the Teachers really do not understand AS (or ADHD).

 

eg: "we tried visual timetables with X, but he doesn't want to use them anymore". why? "cos he doesn't want to seem different to the other children" - suggestion - whole class has visual timetable.

 

Someone else said "he doesn't need a visual timetable - he can read"!!!!

 

The thing that really shocked me was that all the classes leave their doors open. I was sat at the back of the class (near the door) and the amount of noise/distraction from the library outside the classroom meant it was hard to hear what the Teacher was saying.

 

Schools certainly have a long way to go.

 

Karen

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Kazzen

 

 

Someone else said "he doesn't need a visual timetable - he can read"!!!!

 

The SENCO!! at my son's old school practically had an argument with the Ed Pscyh with this exact same comment. She insisted that he didn't need a visual timetable as he's an excellent reader. :wallbash::wallbash: What hope is there for the other teachers in the school when their "SEN leader" has an attitude like this.

 

Lisa

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"he doesn't need a visual timetable - he can read"!!!!

We've had that comment too!

 

I think part of the problem in some schools is that there is little or no cascading of info through to other members - a day's inset for the SENCo has to be condensed into a 10 minute slot for the staff meeting. :(

 

Mind you - I was at the last meeting that the SENCo went to - she left early at 3:00 ... missed the last session totally. :shame::shame:

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