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Hi. My daughter (A. 9yrs old) hates writing, but has to do it for school. Not only does it physically hurt her hand after a while, the size of it has got so small that it's not readable. She has the 'perfectionist' element of hating using a pen for writing because it makes a mess (smudges), falls out of her hand and when you make a mistake you can't get rid of it. But my question is this - has anybody else had this problem, as my daughters' ASD outreach worker has never come across it? (I'm talking about the size of her handwriting- sorry it's not that clear).

I should mention that A. was hospitalised for 3 months last summer - she wasn't coping with school, school weren't listening, school and school nurse contacted social services, allegations of 'fabricated illness' banded about, child protection, enforced stint on psych ward to rule out me abusing her, etc, etc. (In other words - HELL for 3 months).

If this isn't an 'Aspie' trait, does anyone know what it could be, and does anyone have any idea of how I can help her? (I should probably also say that her writing was equally as small at home when it began to 'shrink' - it's been shrinking since January. Now that she's more settled at home (who knew you could take your child to hospital so that they could psychologically abuse her - she's only started to settle in the past 6 weeks or so), her writing is better (larger at home). It seems to be that if it's 'important' work (work to be graded by a teacher) it's just too small to see.

Sorry for rambling - I hope this make sense to somebody...

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I've heard of messy handwriting being associated with AS and motor co-ordination issues, but never size of writing specifically.

 

Because it fluctuates, it doesn't seem like it would relate to AS, since AS is constant. It does seem to be a reaction to stress/pressure that is improving as she re-settles at home and hopefully will continue to improve. The issue with work to be graded by the teacher is a bit harder to deal with. One possible solution might be to use a computer at times, but that really does need to be alongside persisting with the handwriting as well.

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It may be as simple as she just likes the way it looks - thinks it looks 'neater' or 'prettier' (some people have very 'big' handwriting for the same reason, I think).

When working on my son's handwriting (something we've recently agreed we're gonna need to do again as he's working back towards spider-scrawl!) I would 'model' writing for him, writing a line of text in ink, then duplicating it three times in increasingly light pencil. Using the ink line as a template he would trace over my 3 pencil lines, then write the line freehand once or twice underneath.

This really helped, because as well as the visual model (ink) to copy the tracing reinforced the fine motor skills.

 

Hope that's helpful

 

L&P

 

BD

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Just wondered if anyone had ever said to her before that her writing needed to be smaller and she's taken it a bit literally? My lad has the opposite problem, his is enormous! I would show her an example of a good size to aim for and get her to practice copying it and keeping it to that size.

 

~ Mel ~

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As you say that writing hurts your DD's hand, it might be worth seeing if she can be assessed for dyspraxia. My son has very significant dyspraxia, and he struggled with his hand hurting. I wonder if she also has problems getting what is in her head to 'come out of her pen'?? Have you had a chance to chat around this?

 

There are lots of things you can do to help handwriting: special pen/pencil grips, using a sloping surface, cursive script, etc. To a degree I think it's useful to perservere.

 

However, like my son, there are some children for whom writing is just never going to 'come together'. The best thing we ever did for him was a short course at his primary school using a children's interactive computer program that taught touch typing. Does your DD have an opportunity to use a laptop at school? This can be extremely helpful, as it can remove the frustration involved in handwriting problems so that the young person can express themselves more easily. It does need to be monitored carefully, though...at my son's mainstream school we eventually found out that no-one had thought that he would need help to organise/print off the work he did on the laptop!

 

On the plus side, my son is grown up now. His writing still looks like that of maybe a 6 year old...but he got good GCSE results, works full-time and lives independently :thumbs:

 

Having said all of the above, I do appreciate that all of you have had a dreadful time recently. Another thought might be to leave the writing for a little while until things in general have stabilised, so that it doesn't become another area of upset/conflict, and again this might be where a laptop could come in very useful.

 

HHT >:D<<'>

 

Bid :)

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As you say that writing hurts your DD's hand, it might be worth seeing if she can be assessed for dyspraxia. My son has very significant dyspraxia, and he struggled with his hand hurting. I wonder if she also has problems getting what is in her head to 'come out of her pen'?? Have you had a chance to chat around this?

 

There are lots of things you can do to help handwriting: special pen/pencil grips, using a sloping surface, cursive script, etc. To a degree I think it's useful to perservere.

I agree and would look into dyspraxia, if only to rule it out. Also, if she complains about any other pains, it may be worth seeing the GP - again to rule things out. I've had so many things dx'ed as an adult that would have saved a lot of grief and ensured some support/understanding were put in place if they were known about as a child. However, I would like to say there is hope - my handwriting was almost unreadable until I left school at 18. I was really lucky to be spotted by a lecturer at university who had an interest in handwriting and found me 'interesting'! :wacko: He started again from the beginning, teaching me to write, and now, although I'm very slow, I can write very neatly if required. I've also found it easy to teach handwriting, because I've explicitly been through the process as an adult.

 

One thing from your post occurred to me - if she's writing in pencil does she have the same problem? If not, there could be (amongst others) two issues - pressure needed to work a pen (what type of pen is she using?) or the fear of mistakes. Try different pens as well as pen grips. Is her hand grip correct or back to front? Would a non-smudging pen help? I hated using pen at primary school (and avoided it in secondary school too!) and my school reports keep saying that I should be progressing to pen - but I was also a perfectionist and couldn't cope with mistakes, plus it was more painful to use a pen. Does she use a pencil in maths? Are her numbers an appropriate size? - this might give more indication of where the problems lie.

 

She could go back to using handwriting paper which specifies how big letters should be - or print a really dark copy of this she can use as guidelines under her paper.

 

If she's doing handwriting practice, have her copy from paper of the same size and make the expectation that her words more or less fill the same line length.

 

Does she write more that others because she filling the same amount of space overall, or is she writing less? If she's writing more, she may be concerned about only being allowed to use one side of paper and having too many ideas to get down?

 

I think it's difficult without knowing the child and with her history to suggest other things - I taught a child who had tiny tiny unreadable writing but it was dealt with at a level the child could easily cope with through humour as a class (giant piece of paper, me getting out my magnifying glass etc.) - but I wouldn't do this if I didn't feel the child concerned would cope or anyone else in the class would take it too far - you need to know the child well for this.

 

One other thing just occurred to me - have you tried getting her to write on a mini whiteboard (most schools have these)? You can get lined versions, mistakes can easily be changed, and when she's happy with the piece, it can be photocopied to make a permanent copy. It's not a long-term solution but will get her into the writing habit.

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Hi,

 

I am new, but just read your post. My 11 y.o, who we believe has aspergers, writes very small too - he has always had bad handwriting, but we were told it's because he is a leftie. I notice however, that it is smaller in certain subjects, so maybe it is a stress indicator.

 

My other point, my younger son, 9y.o, has recently been diagnosed with dysgraphia - the writing part of dyspraxia if I understand it correctly. His problem is bad handwriting,and a painful arm, but not size of writing, but they found with him a big difference when he is copying something, as to when he is inventing a story - writing from his head is a lot more legible. He has a lot of problems refinding his place when he is copying, especially off the blackboard. We have been told to get his eyes tested too, but here in a small town in France we were offered October for an eye appt. We are coming to UK next month, so will get it done then.

 

Just thought this may be of interest,

 

Diane

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Hi. My daughter (A. 9yrs old) hates writing, but has to do it for school. Not only does it physically hurt her hand after a while, the size of it has got so small that it's not readable. She has the 'perfectionist' element of hating using a pen for writing because it makes a mess (smudges), falls out of her hand and when you make a mistake you can't get rid of it. But my question is this - has anybody else had this problem, as my daughters' ASD outreach worker has never come across it? (I'm talking about the size of her handwriting- sorry it's not that clear).

I should mention that A. was hospitalised for 3 months last summer - she wasn't coping with school, school weren't listening, school and school nurse contacted social services, allegations of 'fabricated illness' banded about, child protection, enforced stint on psych ward to rule out me abusing her, etc, etc. (In other words - HELL for 3 months).

If this isn't an 'Aspie' trait, does anyone know what it could be, and does anyone have any idea of how I can help her? (I should probably also say that her writing was equally as small at home when it began to 'shrink' - it's been shrinking since January. Now that she's more settled at home (who knew you could take your child to hospital so that they could psychologically abuse her - she's only started to settle in the past 6 weeks or so), her writing is better (larger at home). It seems to be that if it's 'important' work (work to be graded by a teacher) it's just too small to see.

Sorry for rambling - I hope this make sense to somebody...

Hi, My 11 year old son hates writing....my eldestson was the same...........he said it hurts his hands he prefers to type......im sure irts an aspie trait im waitinf doe final meeting with CAMHS...to get dx....he has home tutor suplied by school at the moment as school gives him anxiety.....lindy

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Hi. My daughter (A. 9yrs old) hates writing, but has to do it for school. Not only does it physically hurt her hand after a while, the size of it has got so small that it's not readable. She has the 'perfectionist' element of hating using a pen for writing because it makes a mess (smudges), falls out of her hand and when you make a mistake you can't get rid of it. But my question is this - has anybody else had this problem, as my daughters' ASD outreach worker has never come across it? (I'm talking about the size of her handwriting- sorry it's not that clear).

I should mention that A. was hospitalised for 3 months last summer - she wasn't coping with school, school weren't listening, school and school nurse contacted social services, allegations of 'fabricated illness' banded about, child protection, enforced stint on psych ward to rule out me abusing her, etc, etc. (In other words - HELL for 3 months).

If this isn't an 'Aspie' trait, does anyone know what it could be, and does anyone have any idea of how I can help her? (I should probably also say that her writing was equally as small at home when it began to 'shrink' - it's been shrinking since January. Now that she's more settled at home (who knew you could take your child to hospital so that they could psychologically abuse her - she's only started to settle in the past 6 weeks or so), her writing is better (larger at home). It seems to be that if it's 'important' work (work to be graded by a teacher) it's just too small to see.

Sorry for rambling - I hope this make sense to somebody...

 

 

Hi

 

It could be a form of dysgraphia. My son has dysgraphia. My understanding is that there are various forms, but writing can be near/illegible, words running together, very small or large, and it can actually be painful for the person to write. R has dyspraxia (diagnosed at the same time as dysgraphia by his consultant). Check out:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dysgraphia

 

Have to say, I didn't find massess of info on the internet, but certainly found enough for me to suspect that my son had it. I collated examples of drawing and writing (the few that R actually did!) and showed my son's consultant. AFter a bit of persuasion, she visited R in school and was able to see examples of his work. She was fortunate enough to also observe him in PE and it was apparent to her that R was clumsy, etc. All of which amounted to Dyspraxia. It's tricky to diagnose because kids of the spectrum can have these issues as part and parcel of their ASD. Some professionals are against giving additional labels, but obviously where issues are significant enough, it's my view, particularly where education professionals are concerned, that it can be helpful for the child to hae their specific difficulties acknowledged and addressed.

 

An OT might be able to diagnose, but I guess this may vary according to county.

 

Caroline.

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Hi,

 

I am new, but just read your post. My 11 y.o, who we believe has aspergers, writes very small too - he has always had bad handwriting, but we were told it's because he is a leftie. I notice however, that it is smaller in certain subjects, so maybe it is a stress indicator.

 

My other point, my younger son, 9y.o, has recently been diagnosed with dysgraphia - the writing part of dyspraxia if I understand it correctly. His problem is bad handwriting,and a painful arm, but not size of writing, but they found with him a big difference when he is copying something, as to when he is inventing a story - writing from his head is a lot more legible. He has a lot of problems refinding his place when he is copying, especially off the blackboard. We have been told to get his eyes tested too, but here in a small town in France we were offered October for an eye appt. We are coming to UK next month, so will get it done then.

 

Just thought this may be of interest,

 

Diane

 

The problem with shifting gaze and finding where he was on the printed page or board maybe part of a wider dyspraxic problem. He has the handwriting difficulties and the eye muscles (along with other muscles) are often affected too. If he comes back with okay vision it maybe specific problems with tracking and/or difficulties with lots of visual information on the page. Better to keep his work on a worksheet with minimal print rather than expect him to shift his gaze back and forth.

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Hello everyone. Just wanted to thank you all for your posts...

 

We're in the process of trying to get A. statemented, and as part of that the Head Teacher is involved. She matter-of-factly told me that A.'s work has been going downhill since January, and that although she isn't a doctor, it's obvious that the small handwriting is connected to her not coping.

 

So... we're going down the CAMHS route in the hopes that they can help her before it gets any worse.

 

I'm under no illusions that if this doesn't help, I'll walk away from it. But what will I do then???

 

Incidentally, although not 'officially' diagnosed, my husband and I believe I'm also an Aspie, and I'm a darn sight worse since the trauma of BCH last year (accused of 'fabricated illness by proxy' for those of you reading who haven't read the other stuff).

 

 

Thanks to those of you who take the time to read these posts. Wish I was better at it...

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I agree and would look into dyspraxia, if only to rule it out. Also, if she complains about any other pains, it may be worth seeing the GP - again to rule things out. I've had so many things dx'ed as an adult that would have saved a lot of grief and ensured some support/understanding were put in place if they were known about as a child. However, I would like to say there is hope - my handwriting was almost unreadable until I left school at 18. I was really lucky to be spotted by a lecturer at university who had an interest in handwriting and found me 'interesting'! :wacko: He started again from the beginning, teaching me to write, and now, although I'm very slow, I can write very neatly if required. I've also found it easy to teach handwriting, because I've explicitly been through the process as an adult.

 

One thing from your post occurred to me - if she's writing in pencil does she have the same problem? If not, there could be (amongst others) two issues - pressure needed to work a pen (what type of pen is she using?) or the fear of mistakes. Try different pens as well as pen grips. Is her hand grip correct or back to front? Would a non-smudging pen help? I hated using pen at primary school (and avoided it in secondary school too!) and my school reports keep saying that I should be progressing to pen - but I was also a perfectionist and couldn't cope with mistakes, plus it was more painful to use a pen. Does she use a pencil in maths? Are her numbers an appropriate size? - this might give more indication of where the problems lie.

 

She could go back to using handwriting paper which specifies how big letters should be - or print a really dark copy of this she can use as guidelines under her paper.

 

If she's doing handwriting practice, have her copy from paper of the same size and make the expectation that her words more or less fill the same line length.

 

Does she write more that others because she filling the same amount of space overall, or is she writing less? If she's writing more, she may be concerned about only being allowed to use one side of paper and having too many ideas to get down?

 

I think it's difficult without knowing the child and with her history to suggest other things - I taught a child who had tiny tiny unreadable writing but it was dealt with at a level the child could easily cope with through humour as a class (giant piece of paper, me getting out my magnifying glass etc.) - but I wouldn't do this if I didn't feel the child concerned would cope or anyone else in the class would take it too far - you need to know the child well for this.

 

One other thing just occurred to me - have you tried getting her to write on a mini whiteboard (most schools have these)? You can get lined versions, mistakes can easily be changed, and when she's happy with the piece, it can be photocopied to make a permanent copy. It's not a long-term solution but will get her into the writing habit.

 

Thank you so much for taking the time to respond...

 

A.'s handwriting size is the same whether pen or pencil is used. She's trying a 'Yoropen' at the moment - it's certainly more comfortable than the schools' Berol Handwriting pen, but still no joy on increase in size for school.

 

She has a slanted writing board on loan, has a 'SitN'Move' wobble cushion to help her concentrate, has various grips we're trying out at home, writes beautiful, neat large handwriting in her special handwriting book from school (when at home), but still no increase on size at school...

 

O.T. doesn't believe she's dyspraxic as can 'plan out' and 'execute' her course in the sensory room with no real problems.

 

She grips her pens at home very tightly and slightly crosses over her thumb onto finger.

 

Suspect it's anxiety related as have found out since writing this post that A.'s work has been going downhill since January.

 

Her teacher is really lovely this year, but he's at a loss to know what to do.

 

Waiting on a CAMHS referral, but that letter hasn't arrived yet as GP's secretary is off sick...

 

Once again, thanks for taking the time to respond...

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Hello,

Just for interest, I remember my school reports saying my writing was tiny, I was quite timid at school, but also very conforming. I have been diagnosed in mature adulthood with AS and dyspraxia and dyslexia, so went through the whole of school without knowing, which the writing might be linked to a coping strategy. Perhaps quicker to write, but also perhaps to do with movement. I know by the school reports that I took a long time with work and would look in a dream, so it just might be part of the whole coping. In adulthood I actually use a pencil due to needing less grip.

 

I too have had a trauma, which is where I ended up with diagnoses, due I think it dismantled some of my coping strategies, so what you're saying has similarities to my own case. Thought this may help

 

>:D<<'>

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