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mamabear

Medication for temper/violence/aggression

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A few of my friends have asked why Naruto is not on any medication. He has been diagnosed with Autistic Spectrum Disorder last December and is six. He is of above average intelligence and has a high vocabulary but far lower levels of receptive understanding and interpretation and doesn;t understand the aocial context of things.

 

When he is unhappy, which can be caused by many things, in particular not getting his own way, he is prone to violence and aggressive behaviour - such as smashing things and throwing everything he can get his hands on including furniture, using and creating weapons and attackng people in a very focussed way and so on - including teachers, nurses etc.

 

obviously we've been working on his behavour for a very long time to try and avoid the outbursts in the first place by doing many things, including ptuting him first in our planning/strategies/activities and using distraction, etc.. His reaction/temper is, so far, more extreme than anyone else/anyone else's kid I've heard of personally. He was initially given a label of conduct Disorder and I suppose he still has that too.. though it sees to be caused by autism related self centred-ness, pickyness, preferences, communication difficulties and so on. He cannot manage in school without a full time support worker and sometimes two.

 

If he were an adult with a severe anger problem which affects their life so badly, wouldnt they be on some kind of medication and therapy?

 

Does anyone know of anything we ought to be doing with our son. i never thought i would ever consider medicating him, but his problems are so profound and I think it must be awful for him (as well as us) for him to be so upset so often... I would be prepared to at least consider it.

 

Thanks for any info, thoughts or ideas anyone can share.

 

Mamabear

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It's a really difficult issue. Many people are dead set against medication, especially for children. There are medications which can be prescribed for these types of issues, but they can also cause a lot of side effects. Sometimes though, they do work well and can be a good solution for the autistic person and the rest of their family.

 

Ultimately though, behavioural solutions are still necessary alongside medications and also the best long-term strategies.

 

The world can be a very confusing place for people with autism, and we often find it hard to identify and cope with emotions like anger. Do you have any idea what the triggers are? If so, you might be able to find ways to minimise them and work on coping strategies for times when that is not possible.

 

The other day I came across some Social Stories for helping children with feelings such as anger. You don't have to use them exactly as they are, you can change them to fit your specific situation or even write your own from scratch, but the samples can give you a good starting point. http://www.thewatsoninstitute.org/teacher-resources2.jsp?pageId=2161392240601226415747290

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It's a really difficult issue. Many people are dead set against medication, especially for children. There are medications which can be prescribed for these types of issues, but they can also cause a lot of side effects. Sometimes though, they do work well and can be a good solution for the autistic person and the rest of their family.

 

Ultimately though, behavioural solutions are still necessary alongside medications and also the best long-term strategies.

 

The world can be a very confusing place for people with autism, and we often find it hard to identify and cope with emotions like anger. Do you have any idea what the triggers are? If so, you might be able to find ways to minimise them and work on coping strategies for times when that is not possible.

 

The other day I came across some Social Stories for helping children with feelings such as anger. You don't have to use them exactly as they are, you can change them to fit your specific situation or even write your own from scratch, but the samples can give you a good starting point. http://www.thewatsoninstitute.org/teacher-resources2.jsp?pageId=2161392240601226415747290

 

 

oh thank you so much I will take a look at these. I just want my son to be happy and feel like I spend my entire life trying to do this so he does not get upset.. but whatever I do is never enough. I am willing to try new things until we find better ways to help him

 

thank you so much

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I would try not putting him at the centre of all your planning for a while and introducing very strict and clear boundaries when he exhibits aggressive, violent, destructive behaviours when he doesn't get his own way. At the moment the aggression, violence and destruction is proving very beneficial for him - no medication can change that. If he's dictating the way you run your house he needs an adult to take that responsibility from him - it's far too much for a six year old to cope with or to understand. Any six year old in those circumstances would behave the same way, and would continue to do so until an adult took control of the situation

 

L&P

 

BD

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Hi Mamabear

 

I have a 14yr old who sounds very familiar to your son, my son has recently started Prozac which has been really beneficial as it has reduced his anxieties, this reducing the consequences of violence and aggression, my son was also prescribed Risperdal but he has not taken this yet, it is there though in case of emergencies.

 

I would defo have a word with your Specialist who diagnosed the ASD, Conduct Disorder ect.... as for us medication has defo helped J, he use to be on ritalin but he showed more Autistic behaviours and sensory difficulties, I wished we had of tried Prozac a lot earlier now.

 

JsMumxxx

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I would try not putting him at the centre of all your planning for a while and introducing very strict and clear boundaries when he exhibits aggressive, violent, destructive behaviours when he doesn't get his own way. At the moment the aggression, violence and destruction is proving very beneficial for him - no medication can change that. If he's dictating the way you run your house he needs an adult to take that responsibility from him - it's far too much for a six year old to cope with or to understand. Any six year old in those circumstances would behave the same way, and would continue to do so until an adult took control of the situation

 

L&P

 

BD

 

I found your reply a bit heavy BD it insinuates that this is typically a parenting issues, when he is just as difficult in his school.

 

 

He cannot manage in school without a full time support worker and sometimes two.

 

I think your post points the finger too much

at the parent herex.xxx

JsMumxx

Edited by JsMum

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I found your reply a bit heavy BD it insinuates that this is typically a parenting issues, when he is just as difficult in his school.

 

 

 

 

I think your post points the finger too much

at the parent herex.xxx

JsMumxx

 

Hi J's mum -

 

I commented on what was written about as the usual response to aggressive / destructive behaviour in the home. I think behavioural expectations at home play a key part in how a child behaves in school. Not much information is given about the school environment, but if school are trying to implement behavioural strategies that are then being undermined at home, or where the parents oppose the interventions that the school are trying to impose the school will be able to achieve very little.

I am not 'pointing fingers' at anyone I am stating my opinion based on the description of the behaviours and the responses to the behaviours.

Looking at it another way, I think it is pointing a finger at the child to suggest that he is so fundamentally 'damaged' at the age of six that only medication can stop him from enacting these behaviours, and that behavioural interventions and strategies like the ones I've mentioned are pointless.

I believe that responses like the ones detailed are rewarding the behaviours and i do not think rewarding behaviours of this nature helps to resolve them. I do not think that medication will resolve the behaviours because it does not address the fundamental problem, which is the reward the behaviours earn.

I genuinely believe that if the parents really applied the kind of concrete sanctions and boundaries that children need with reward schemes, positive reinforcement, clear expectations etc etc that within six months or so they could have made a huge amount of progress and their child would be happier and they would be happier and their home would be less smashed up. I think those gains at home and a mutually cooperative relationship with school could achieve the same there. I genuinely believe that is better than looking for a chemical cosh that will provide a short term solution, possibly long term dependancy, and never address the underlying issues.

The OP is completely free to disregard my advice, but it is offered because I believe it is the best way to achieve long term gains for herself and her son.

 

L&P

 

BD

Edited by Kathryn

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Hi Mamabear,

 

I would say start by reviewing the basics: clear daily routines (set bedtimes, meals together, etc), and visual timetables so your DS knows when these things are going to happen.

 

Have you tried behavioural strategies, focusing on just the one (most troublesome) behaviour, e.g. hitting? You need to have very clear consequences for the challenging behaviour, linked in with a reward scheme (a day or smaller parts of a day at a time to start with). If you do a search on the forum there are plenty of threads which go into much more detail about how to structure and implement behavioural strategies and reward systems.

 

While it is important to acknowledge his autism, I don't think it's a good idea to put him first in everything you do. This isn't how real life will be for him at school or out in the real world.

 

So, I would review the above before thinking about medication.

 

Good luck,

 

Bid :)

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Hi J's mum -

 

I commented on what was written about as the usual response to aggressive / destructive behaviour in the home. I think behavioural expectations at home play a key part in how a child behaves in school. Not much information is given about the school environment, but if school are trying to implement behavioural strategies that are then being undermined at home, or where the parents oppose the interventions that the school are trying to impose the school will be able to achieve very little.

I am not 'pointing fingers' at anyone I am stating my opinion based on the description of the behaviours and the responses to the behaviours.

Looking at it another way, I think it is pointing a finger at the child to suggest that he is so fundamentally 'damaged' at the age of six that only medication can stop him from enacting these behaviours, and that behavioural interventions and strategies like the ones I've mentioned are pointless.

I believe that responses like the ones detailed are rewarding the behaviours and i do not think rewarding behaviours of this nature helps to resolve them. I do not think that medication will resolve the behaviours because it does not address the fundamental problem, which is the reward the behaviours earn.

I genuinely believe that if the parents really applied the kind of concrete sanctions and boundaries that children need with reward schemes, positive reinforcement, clear expectations etc etc that within six months or so they could have made a huge amount of progress and their child would be happier and they would be happier and their home would be less smashed up. I think those gains at home and a mutually cooperative relationship with school could achieve the same there. I genuinely believe that is better than looking for a chemical cosh that will provide a short term solution, possibly long term dependancy, and never address the underlying issues.

The OP is completely free to disregard my advice, and I suspect she will probably chose to do so, but it is offered because I believe it is the best way to achieve long term gains for herself and her son.

 

L&P

 

BD

 

 

OMG Baddad I find some of your reply highly offensive to parents like me who have had to consider Medication for thier childrens Disabilities, it is not an easy decision but when a 14yr old boy goes to bed with weapons because of severe anxiety there comes a time where you have to consider his safety and others safety, children exhib behaviours such as aggression, temper as a way of communicating and when verbal words are too difficult.

 

As for schools I did try very hard to work with Js presant school but they where only interested in the reaction or consequence of his frustration, they failed to look at the underlying issues which for J is Anxiety based, Impaired communication, impulsive reactions so the school continued to give consequences that actually led to more Behaviours, then more concequences and before long J was in a for ever spiral, I wanted the school to look at the underlying issues but they refused and this is a specialist school that caters for boys with AS, ASD, ADHD, ODD, Conduct Disorder, PDA, Attatchment Disorders, every behavioural issue going, and they are not interested in the slightest to look deeper and the underlying cause, the way they manage J at school isnt something I can do at home because the way they get J to conform is by Physical Restraint, something I can no longer do, at home I do impliment Boundaries and consequences but he becomes uncoperative, non compliant and banned things he literately FIGHTS me to recover them back, at school there are a large number of staff and they can restrain J, but at home its just ME.

 

J at present has 2-1 due to his potential violence, aggression.

 

At school Js got many Anxieties but the school FAIL to even achknowledge half of them so when I recieve J at home he explodes because he is a wind up cog and because Im at home alone it is a lot harder to enforce the consequences.

 

I did not just willy nilly decide to place J on A Chemical COSH as you put it, it was carefully thought out, researched and I do not see myself taking the easy way out either, even with Medication Js needs are still high, it certainly isnt for an easy life, but to make J more relaxed, comfortable about doing ordinary tasks, because even asking J to put his shoes on to go out can set Js anxieties off, so if it makes HIS life easier then I will.

 

I think you seriously need to really think more about what you write here because a lot of parents here DO choose to go down the Medication route, either short term or LONG term.

 

Js respidol is for the short term, the Prozac the long term.

 

It was prescribed by a Psychiatrist and was fully assesseded and has a severe Anxiety Disorder that is secondary to his ASD.

 

I personally have been on five parenting courses where I was praised for my parenting and modification creative skills to help J so he had support for his anxieties and special needs, he has a purpose built sensory room, access to lots of interventions and theraputic activities and he is still very anxious so we looked into medication.

 

Js Peadatrition and Consultant requested I place J on medication several years ago and I wanted to use Behavioural stratagies first, they was saying themselves that alone will not help.

 

As for Mamasbear, I have Friends who have children with severe Aggression and it has nothing at all to do with parenting and they are on medication, one friends child was four so it is known that children can be given medication at a young age.

 

I personally found your post very distressing because I delayed medication for J and now wished that I went down this route a bit earlier because J could of had at least some reliefe from his anxities as he has said himself prozac has helped, he noticed with in TWO weeks of taking prozac, its suppose to take SIX weeks, but the Psychiatrist said that it is possible J responded with in two weeks because of his size and matablizm, every one is different, he has experienced NO side effects at presantx obvously everyone is different and everyone reacts diffferently to medication but that can be the case even taking calpol/paracetamolx

 

JsMumxxx

Edited by JsMum

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J's mum -

 

I'm sorry, I know you find quite a few of my posts distressing and/or offensive, but I don't know what I can do about that? I rarely offer advice on your own posts any more for exactly that reason, but the issues you have with your son are not the ones under discussion here.

 

So I do apologise again if you find my posts offensive, and I'm sorry if the OP does too, but I am offering what I consider to be the best advice for her and her child, and if she, you or anyone else wants to ignore it that's fine.

 

 

L&P

 

BD

Edited by baddad

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Sorry Mamabear that this thread has been somewhat taken off topic.

 

Jsmum this thread isn't about you or your son - if you want to start a new topic about the issues you've discussed here please feel free to do that.

 

Can I remind everyone that all opinions are welcome on the forum, direct personal attack is not and any such attacks will be deleted.

 

I don't see how this topic can continue as it is so unfortunately I'm closing it. Mamabear, if you want it reopened so that others can give their opinions, please pm me.

 

Kathryn

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