In despair with my 15 year old.

[Cariad]

I haven't been on this forum for a while, my son now goes to a private ASD school and is doing well. His other pupils are very low functioning and he is the only high functioning one there, but there isn't anything out there for him :-/.. Recently we have been so worn down with his violence, he is a big lad now and I have scars on my hands from where he has attacked me, also my husband and last week he hurt his grandmother and she needed her wounds dressed. We have asked my social worker for a "spell" residental in his school for 2-3 months to try to get him into good behaviours. She is dragging her feet over this and hasn't even applied for funding yet, she is pushing for full time but I don't want that. I'm just so down and depressed over his meltdowns over stupid things like, asking him not to hurt the cat, or stop sucking your sisters arm. Also the sexual aspect is awful, he goes for your skin on your arm and tried to suck it, he also mimics sex towards you when you are bending over. I've tried to put an alarm on his sisters bedroom too..

 

Is anyone going through the same things? Any suggestions? We are even thinking of calling the police when he gets so violent as it's getting harder to restrain him, my husband has to as he's too strong for me.

[RainbowsButterflies]

I'm sorry, I don't have any practical advice, but lots of <'>

I hope someone will come along with something more helpful soon

[dm2010]

AS is no excuse whatever for violence or bad behaviour like this.

 

I had a younger brother who thought that I was a soft touch and decided to throw a punch at me. My response was shall we say, decisive - he never did it again.

 

PS great avatar, Cillan Murphy steals every scene in every film he's in. Always seems to miss out on the leading roles though.

Edited March 30, 2011 by dm2010

[BethK]

you can't wack him back, violence never solves violence.

 

Does he have a behavioural nurse, who keeps in regular contact or visits your son? If not, could you ask your local social services for one to come and access your son. It defo needs to be looked into.

 

By the off chance, do you 'control' (i use this term losely), what he watches on TV? Just wondering if he's picked any of the 'movements' up from there?

[Cariad]

They are aware of his behaviour in school and they have the time out rooms etc, we have nothing like that. Plus his meds are awful, he has changed them as his twitches were causing him not to sleep so his ADHD is awful and he is hyper 24/7. He knows about violence from his previous school as they placed him in an EBD school where he was constantly beaten up and was sexually abused until we took him out 2 years ago. He's had the "You punch me and I'll do it back", it doesn't work and I don't condone violence. We have these "experts" who sit there talking the talk and do nothing, we have asked for restraint lessons and they won't give it to us, so we get bitten, punched, kicked and scrammed. His sexual behaviour got worse after what happened to him, plus a lot of them at his old school had porn on their mobiles. It was a nightmare time as the LEA placed him there and we couldn't get him out, until he got abused and they let us, funny that!

 

I just want to know what's the best way to handle the violence and the sexual behaviour?

[baddad]

Hi Cariad -

 

A huge problem when someone that big is being violent and aggressive. I'll not comment on the violence/aggression beyond that because a post from me on this topic at the moment is likely to result in your thread attracting the attention of others for the wrong reason and getting derailed.

 

What I would say is that the sexual aspect of this needs careful consideration. If he is sexually aggressive towards (i.e.) you and it is this aspect of his behaviour that has prompted you to get an alarm fitted on your daughter's bedroom door then this is really something that needs professional input, and that is unlikely to be resolved by a respite period in school alone. This is a very difficult and delicate area, and I would fully understand if you felt reluctant to raise the issue because of 'judgements' being made, but if it is as serious as you suggest then sooner rather than later is undoubtedly the right way to go. It is also something that anyone supporting him, whether at school or home or socially needs to be aware of and ready to respond/intervene to. Two other consideration: Is his school a mixed school, and has the inappropriate behaviour all been directed towards women/girls? (I ask the last not because of sexuality issues, but more because it might give some clues as to whether he's 'enacting' things he's seeing/overhearing or whether there is a genuine sexual motivation.)

 

You've said the school is mainly 'very low functioning' but that your son is 'high functioning'. There's no 'nice' way of saying this, but if he is 'high functioning' then he should have a better understanding of why these behaviours are inappropriate etc than the other kids. That could be a trigger in the sense that he knows these behaviours will shock or disturb, and it could also be a factor that he is mimicking inappropriate behaviours of lower functioning kids who don't have so much awareness of either the inappropriateness of the behaviour or the reactions of others. I don't think this can be applied to the aggression, because that's a far more black and white concept, but it may be a factor in the sexually inappropriate stuff.

 

Having said all that, his age is an age where sex becomes fascinating on all levels, so it could be more that he's enacting behaviours arising from sexual curiosity or confusion or for 'fun' but doing so in unnaceptable ways. The 'sucking' actually being physical rather than mimed goes against that but doesn't rule it out. I would also consider whether he is getting access to material (either from the net, or perhaps Films and Video games like GTA etc) that is compounding the problem?

 

I hope you'll appreciate I'm not suggesting there's anything 'wrong' with him: I just think if there is any sexual confusion or even a potential problem then it needs to be investigated before behavioural patterns become set. I also hope you appreciate I wasn't saying (para 2) that respite per se is a bad idea; just that school might not be the best place, and that wherever he did go they would need to be aware and ready to respond to all of the behaviours, and that they need professional guidance in how to do that.

 

Hope that's helpful

 

L&P

 

BD

 

PS: Just seen your last post above. With regard to the violence, and in consideration of his size I think you have no option other than restraint, for yours, his, granny's and the cats protection. If SS won't fund it, I'd ask around at local care homes etc and see if you can pay and join some training sessions there - or even do them 'one to one' - and use some of his DLA to pay for it. I can appreciate it might stick in the throat having to pay for what should be a given, but needs must, and it is a 'care need', which is what DLA is paid to cover, so you needn't feel guilty about spending 'his' money on it.

Edited March 30, 2011 by baddad

[trekster]

Sounds like he is acting out what happened to him with others. The term higher functioning is very misleading as it implies a level of understanding he doesn't seem to have. The guy is traumatised by what happened to him which is why hes pushing everyone else around him away. I would consider moving him to a school with verbal autistic kids and also residential. Can you get CAHMS help in your area?

[Cariad]

Thanks Baddad he has the PC in the front room and the monitor on the wall so we can see what he is up to. He isn't too interested in the TV either, it's all from his previous school the sexual behaviour. He has all these sexual behaviours whizzing around his body and doesn't know what to do with them. I'll look into the training definatley! He does get obsessed by the other pupils as they are fascinating to him as he is no where near that level. He is "higher" functioning I suppose not high functioning. I can't move him from this school as he didn't have one for a year and this is the only one around and he'll be 16 in December.

 

Plus my mum called the police about Toby's behaviour today about last Sunday and Monday's incident and they came over in a POLICE VAN! Now they have done a welfare check and it's in their records and I have the neighbours texting and ringing etc too.. I could die of shame, how interfering can you get

[dm2010]

Sounds like other issues here - out of my pay grade this one.

[baddad]

 

Plus my mum called the police about Toby's behaviour today about last Sunday and Monday's incident and they came over in a POLICE VAN! Now they have done a welfare check and it's in their records and I have the neighbours texting and ringing etc too.. I could die of shame, how interfering can you get

 

 

Hi again Cariad - quickie, but while I can understand your anger at the van etc and you're mum probably should have spoken to you first the fact that this has gone on record will have positives in terms of accessing respite/support etc, hopefully Neighbours - make something up! Tell 'em you had a prowler or something!

 

If he likes the school and is doing okay(ish) there and it's the best choice from what's available then no way move him. I was just saying, in terms of respite, it may not be the best place That said, if he's gotta combine respite and school it may well be a case of Hobson's Choice. I hadn't really thought that one through, TBH - was thinking more in terms of 'adult services' than educational, iyswim.

 

I really hope you can get some more knowledgable input soon, but keep banging away at CAMHS etc, and I hope you can access some restraint/handling technique training very soon.

 

L&P

 

BD

[BethK]

You really do need an Educational Psychologist to step in, not the school or SEN, cus lets face it, they've not been seen to do any favours as of yet.

 

I can rant and rave about lack of help but tbh Wokingham Borough council (where I am) are fabulous and compared to what I have read about other boroughs, seem to be on the ball. Now, i will say this and most probably get told 'they will refuse to get invovled' but the LDT team should be helping out (violence and this type of behaviour does come under a learning difficulty). That's where a behavioural nurse would be requested to step in and book your in for a home visit. You may well have to keep going at them for this though.

 

I am aware that a lot of parents on this forum deal with the CAMH, this is not something I have experience with, as the chain falls from the Hospital down to the individual professionals but they will all communicate with eachother. I have spoken to the lass who is assigned to my son from our LDT team, I asked as he gets older, if his violence increases and becomes much more of a danger, who deals with it and she has informed me that they will organise or give support by supplying me with the relevant details of the person/department, if they are unable to help. I asked her if this was a likely case all over the UK and she assured me it should well be but a lot of boroughs like to 'pass the buck', so it seems.

 

There is a difference between his violent behaviour from his condition to what is classed as learnt. I would assume that you, as his parent would know this? I am only asking, as it can be a step towards helping you to dealing with this issue.

 

Can I ask, has he been classed as having PDA (pathological demand avoidance syndrome)? (still comes under the ASD spectrum) If not but either way, I would try and get an appointment with the relevant hospital department ASAP, for further assistance.

 

Avoid direct confrontation, as much as you can, it's safe to say you won't win, esp with his size. Try to remove as much distractions in the home as possible i.e. radio and tv not being on at the same time, if there is a lot of outside noise, keep all windows/doors closed, basically, reaching the needs of his sensory issues if that makes sense? But he defo needs medical envolvement that is a lot higher than his school and SEN. good luck and I hope this wasn't too much of a ramble xx

[baddad]

 

Can I ask, has he been classed as having PDA (pathological demand avoidance syndrome)? (still comes under the ASD spectrum)

 

No it doesn't. It's not officially recognised yet in DSM, despite the best efforts of its inventor. Already it seems destined to be the 'next big thing', but the fact, frankly, that it gets mentioned so casually in reference to a child where the parent has indicated many historical psychologically significant factors that could explain behaviours with no reference to behaviours (other than 'aggression') that fit the inventor's (Elizabeth Newson) definition is something I find quite diturbing in its implications.

 

Sorry, Cariad, I hope my expressing that view will not lead to a derailing of your thread, but to have an unrecognised theoretical disorder appended as a poteitial co-morbid to my sons diagnosis and every other autistic diagnosis really bothers me.

 

L&P

 

BD

Edited March 30, 2011 by baddad

[Cariad]

I appreciate all the input and It's great to have people out there who will listen, we have a second assessment clinic next month (this will be the 2nd time) as his meds just don't do anything. Maybe she can shed some more light on this, I know things will be a little better when he is back at school next week from the easter holidays (his terms are 5 weeks on 1-2 weeks off).

[BethK]

How can it be the next 'big thing', no offense but it's been on the books for a good 15-20 years. OCD was unrecognised for an extremely long length of time, yet it effected a majority of people.

 

It would be worth checking out options, if anything, they can be ruled out.

 

Is there any hope for him to redirect his frustrations, other than taking it out on people? For instance, giving him his 'own area', maybe a section of a garden, with a boxing bag or one of those swing tennis ball games? I find it's all about a redirection or for those more psychologically inclined, 'transfering'.

 

I did a stint last summer with my local social services for 6 weeks, brilliant insight! There was this teenage boy, he didn't have ADHD or alike but he was mentally and physically abused from the age of 6yrs old to 11yrs old and his temper would fly off the hook without any warnings. His mum was indispair over it, seemed like there was no light at the end of the tunnel. BUT after chatting with him (me that is), I thought about 'what if he had is own space' and talked to his social worker. 2 weeks later, he had a punch bag in their shed and his temper was transfered. He no longer was beating those close to him, when he felt like he was going to explode, he went out into the shed for an hr or so. I saw him the other month down a local gym, he's joined their boxing classes and has had a lot of potential recognised in him, for a future in training.

 

It may not help but if you could brainstorm some ideas, you might find a gem that could possibly work xx

[bid]

PS: Just seen your last post above. With regard to the violence, and in consideration of his size I think you have no option other than restraint, for yours, his, granny's and the cats protection. If SS won't fund it, I'd ask around at local care homes etc and see if you can pay and join some training sessions there - or even do them 'one to one' - and use some of his DLA to pay for it. I can appreciate it might stick in the throat having to pay for what should be a given, but needs must, and it is a 'care need', which is what DLA is paid to cover, so you needn't feel guilty about spending 'his' money on it.

 

Unfortunately I think you would come up against insurance problems with this? We have TEAM TEACH training where I work, and I know that as a provider the school is covered by TT insurance, but I think there would probably be problems with that if someone from outside the organisation wanted training?

 

I could be wrong, but unfortunately I think you would find most special schools or care homes reluctant to help for this reason. I don't know what the answer is when it comes to positive handling training for parents

 

ETD: just had a thought...you could try approaching something like TEAM TEACH direct to see if they run something like workshops for parents. I only know about TT, which has a central organisation that trains TT trainers for schools. There are other positive handling techniques with different names (the only other one I know of is called Approach Training) so if you Google 'positive handling techniques' you might find other organisations you could approach about possible parent workshops.

 

HTH and so sorry to hear how tough things are at the moment.

 

Bid <'>

Edited March 30, 2011 by bid

[cmuir]

Hi

 

Sounds very difficult for you all at the moment. The sexual behaviour is very difficult to tackle. Is it possible to involve CAMHS (though I realise he's nearly 16)? How about a social story? Again, very difficult to tackle, but one which outlines the birds and bees, what's acceptable in the privacy of their own space, feelings of others who receive unwanted attention and the possible consequences. This is something which needs to be covered not just at home, but at school also.

 

Sorry, really don't know what else to suggest.

 

Caroline.

[baddad]

How can it be the next 'big thing', no offense but it's been on the books for a good 15-20 years. OCD was unrecognised for an extremely long length of time, yet it effected a majority of people.

 

 

 

Yes, it has been kicking around as a theory (rather than 'on the books') for 15-20 years, but it is only recently that it's started cropping up with increasing frequency, and in an increasingly casual manner. A 20 year 'overnite sensation'... The term OCD might be relatively new, but the condition itself and behaviours, under various names (including possession by demons), has been recognised for centuries. Freud was writing about about obsessive compulsive behaviours at the turn of the 20th century, so it's hardly new.

 

I really don't want to get sidetracked or allow cariad's thread to get sidetracked by a discussion about PDA. You suggested it as an avenue to explore, I corrected some misinformation in your post about it's authenticity as a diagnosis and questioned its relevance. If you do want to discuss PDA further, perhaps another thread would be a good idea, or we could just agree to differ on this one?

 

Cariad, apologies again, and glad you're finding the replies - including the ones on PDA etc - useful 'food for thought'. Hadn't thought of that insurance angle for training, but hope you can find some way of accessing.

 

L&P

 

BD

[Tally]

I heard recently that Banardos started an initiative to support children exhibiting sexual behaviour within the family. It might be worth contacting them to see if they can point you toward some support with this.

[smiley1590]

the sexual behaviour he maybe coping acting out from happening to him at his last school from sexual abuse he maybe acting out what happened to him as he can't express into words did he have any counselling after these abuse incidents /situations happened? is he on meds for his ADHD? with his anger /aggression is physical might be MH probs ( depression) Emotional probs from what he been through!?

 

XKLX

[smiley1590]

the sexual abuse seems to have emotional affected him deeply and lets out the trauma he been through anger etc this not an excuse but may be a reason behind his meltdowns!

 

XKX

[JsMum]

I haven't been on this forum for a while, my son now goes to a private ASD school and is doing well. His other pupils are very low functioning and he is the only high functioning one there, but there isn't anything out there for him :-/.. Recently we have been so worn down with his violence, he is a big lad now and I have scars on my hands from where he has attacked me, also my husband and last week he hurt his grandmother and she needed her wounds dressed. We have asked my social worker for a "spell" residental in his school for 2-3 months to try to get him into good behaviours. She is dragging her feet over this and hasn't even applied for funding yet, she is pushing for full time but I don't want that. I'm just so down and depressed over his meltdowns over stupid things like, asking him not to hurt the cat, or stop sucking your sisters arm. Also the sexual aspect is awful, he goes for your skin on your arm and tried to suck it, he also mimics sex towards you when you are bending over. I've tried to put an alarm on his sisters bedroom too..

 

Is anyone going through the same things? Any suggestions? We are even thinking of calling the police when he gets so violent as it's getting harder to restrain him, my husband has to as he's too strong for me.

 

 

What about his ASD school can they give you any further help for the Restraining issues.

 

I personally have to phone the police too, it is to keep you, the family and themselves safe.

 

As for the sexual Abuse is there any support, services that you can access along side his ASD school placement.

 

Or find another specialist school that also cater for Sexual Behaviours in Adolesence who have been sexually abused.

 

I agree that a lot of the sexual behaviours will be contributed to the fact he will be going throw pubity and sexual desire, its just getting all confusing because of what he has experienced due to been abused at his previous school.

 

I recommend you contact National Autistic Societys Community Care services.

 

You may need legal support to get your son the services he needs not just right now, but in the future too.

 

JsMumxxx

[JsMum]

Some more links that may be able offer further advice for your sons Aggression.

 

http://www.beatingangerderby.co.uk/anger-management/understanding-anger-parents-3'>http://www.beatingangerderby.co.uk/anger-management/understanding-anger-parents-3

http://www.beatingangerderby.co.uk/

 

 

http://www.angermanage.co.uk/

 

 

http://www.bild.org.uk/behavioursupport.htm

 

Bild may know of specific courses parents can go on to learn to manage their childrens challenging behaviours, me personally even if I had the training I still wouldnt restrain my son alone, it would require more than just one person.

 

JsMumx

[av16]

I'm sorry you are having a difficult time. I saw this person speak on autism & sexuality last year and he was very good; he does give his contact details on his website and he referred to people contacting him for help. He might have some good advice for your particular situation.

http://www.the-expert-witness.co.uk/luke-beardon/#exper

Hope you get something sorted.

[Sally44]

I know you've said there's no school in your area.

And now you are asking for respite.

And I know that your son only recently started at this new school after being at home for some considerable time.

Can I ask if his behaviour was the same whilst he was just at home? Has it deteriorated since he started the new school?

But there are ASD specific residential schools that cater for children who are capable. But I don't know if you feel that is an option you could look into. Some pupils are residential throughout the year, some go home for holidays and others go home every weekend.

You could get some of this on video. Talking about stuff is one thing, but professionals seeing it on tape is another. You don't need to be a camera man and it is best not to edit it at all so there are no questions about making it look worse than it is. Just let the camera roll.

I seem to remember that he is academically more capable - but that does not mean he is also socially or emotionally capable. Spiky profile again.

What you would need to prove is that he needs a 24/7 timetable ie. around the clock supervision, and the aggression, sexual behaviour might cover that. You would need an independent educational pscyhologist to write that report.

Rather than just an educational pscyhologist (although they should also be involved), you need to be seen by clinical psychology and maybe even CAHMS. You can ask them to write reports and use them too. It looks alot better if your independent and NHS professionals are all saying the same thing. Your GP or another professional already involved can refer you.

[BethK]

Just a thought, would it be possible to talk to a manager of a near by residential school or sheltered housing association for disabilities etc? Just to get a picture of what/how they would deal with a situation? Might be worth a try, see if they can give any friendly advice?