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Lyndalou

Is this Professional?

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Just when I thought it may actually be straightforward!

 

I approached an Independent Assessor, endorsed by the NAS a couple of months ago for a private assessment for AS. He explained to me that he could not do an assessment per se but would do a full 'investigation' into my history and current difficulties and after discussion it was decided that this would include him speaking to my parents and the therapist I worked with last year.

 

I approached him because my GP explained that the NHS route was virtually closed to me because the Psychiatrist the practice must refer to has always refused to refer adults for assessment because HE has 'no expertise in the field' (?)

 

Anyway, the GP came back to me yesterday and told me that the Psychiatrist contacted her and said that he would not refer me for assessment (no surprise there). However, the reason he gave is that he had had a confab with the Independent Assessor (I did not give permission for this) who takes NHS referrals to assess on their behalf and that the IA said that he believed after his phone call with me that I have VERY mild AS and that as there is no treatment for AS anyway that there is little point in me pursuing a diagnosis.

 

Firstly, did the IA say this and should he have spoken to the Psychiatrist without my permission when I was intending to PAY him to be independent and impartial?

 

Secondly, if he HAS already formed an opinion (rightly or wrongly but that's not the point) should I even bother seeing him? Surely it's impossible to come to an informed decision after one phonecall and no actual 'assessment'? I can feel mistrust coming on....

 

Thirdly, (and there may be a touch of paranoia here) I can't help but think that my past work history may have come into the equation. I worked as a patient's advocate (a job I found difficult but I believed in) at the very hospital the Psychiatrist is based at and part of my job involved challenging professionals (not sure if I'm up to that now) although I don't think I crossed swords with this particular doctor. Could my 'level' of AS be partly based on this?

 

Thanks, Lynda

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Hi Lindylou -

 

I find everything you've said quite unsettling, actually, especially the bit about 'NAS Endorsed I.A.' If the NAS have actually reached the point of 'recommending' Private consultants I for one would be really interested in knowing the process they use for making such recommendations, especially if the ones they 'recommend' are happy to offer casual-but-vague diagnosis on the basis of a single phonecall or an off-the-record casual exchange between colleagues (?).

 

Believe me, I'm not shocked at the casual nature of the dx; I think it's happening more and more - especially in the private sector - but I am shocked to hear that it is now so endemic that even the NAS are involved in the process. I'm also shocked to hear that the umbrella has been widened even further to not only encompass 'mild' Aspergers - a diagnosis that doesn't exist - but also 'VERY mild' Asperger's - a term that must pretty much equate to the 'we're all on the spectrum somewhere' misconception that now undermines the reality of the condition for many. Effectively now endorsed by the NAS (given that they recommend I.A's making such diagnoses),that misconception/level of general ignorance can only mushroom :ph34r:

 

One question, and I hope you'll appreciate it's not making any 'judgement' of you or your suspicions that you might have AS (like your I.A., if he/she was being honest, I couldn't possibly have a clue on the basis of so little evidence, and of course I'm not qualified anyway!), but if the result had been a 'positive' diagnosis would you have felt satisfied that the methodology involved in arriving at that conclusion was sound? I suspect, given that the negative result has led you to question the efficacy of the dx you'd say 'no', but as your question was only prompted by the 'negatives' a positive wouldn't have alerted you in the same way. I think many parents taking their children for Private dx's and adults doing the same for themselves would come to similar conclusions. that's not, of course, because parents (or adults) 'want' the diagnosis per se, but they are looking (like yourself) for explanations for their concerns and a positive dx provides them with that regardless of whether it is accurate or not...

 

Finally, as your NHS consultant very accurately points out, a dx - even a thorough and accurate one - isn't going to solve any of the problems/concerns you have. There isn't any treatment for AS and in real terms no support that wouldn't be available were you to seek help for the 'symptoms' without a dx. Whether you continue to pursue a dx (and whether you continue to do so via the NAS recommended I.A.) has to be your own decision, but in a way you've already got it. On your medical record it states you have VERY mild AS, and that dx is endorsed by both the I.A. and the NHS psychiatrist and accepted by your GP. Shaving the VERY mild bit off the front isn't going to affect the 'symptoms' you have in any way, or attract any additional/better support. In purely practical (if that's the right word) terms, most people with AS have complete control over when and to whom their diagnosis is revealed, and many seem perfectly content to practice that option even on the basis of their home diagnosis or the online test they took on facebook. It's very unlikely if you tell people you have a dx of Asperger's syndrome that they are going to pin you down for further elaboration on whether you have 'Ordinary' Aspergers, 'Mild' Aspergers, or 'VERY' mild Aspergers.

 

HTH, and that you'll appreciate the concerns I've raised are not about you/your dx personally, but the wider issue of very casual diagnosis you have raised.

 

L&P

 

BD

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Hi Lyndalou,

 

Sorry to hear about this.

 

My first question was what on earth is an 'Independent Assessor'?? :o:unsure:

 

I wouldn't want to be assessed, per se or otherwise, by anyone other than a fully qualified clinical psychologist or psychiatrist who specialised in adult diagnosis.

 

Hope you can find some answers.

 

Bid :)

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Thanks Baddad and Bid

 

I take on board everything you said about the dangers of self-diagnosis and -ve v +ve diagnosis Baddad and I agree with what you said. Nonetheless, I have felt a bit 'put on the spot' every time the question 'But what do you need a diagnosis for?' is put to me and the answer I have given is normally along the lines of 'Knowing for sure' to feel more confident with regards to my future job prospects (when I could choose if appropriate to disclose any diagnosis as I have had major problems in the past with bullying / being told I was not fulfilling my job description etc) or if the occasion occurs in the future when I feel I need additional support with my son who has ASD. Both 'pie in the sky notions I'm sure. I am under no allusion that any diagnosis would most likely fall into the 'mild' category although it has had a major impact on my life but I wouldn't be on here if I didn't think I had the condition in some form.

 

From reading your post, I realise that my reason for wanting to know IS more fundamental. It is simply that a diagnosis would be validation and I would not have to justify it over and over again because I am too this or too that to have the condition.

 

I'm not looking for a miracle 'cure'. When I recognised myself in what I was reading, I knew that I was going to have to put the work in to understand what it meant for myself and my family. However, I felt that it was important to get the ball rolling as quickly as possible as I know how long referrals etc can take.

 

I knew as soon as the GP said what the attitude of the Psychiatrist was that it would be a fruitless avenue. Psychiatrists like that don't like to have their opinions questioned. So I spoke to the woman from the NAS I had been in contact with regarding my son and she informed me of the Independent Autism Assessor and suggested that this may be a route to go down. Being green, I suppose I thought this was the best way to go - get an opinion from someone the NHS trusts to assess patients in order to in time argue for a full diagnosis on the NHS.

 

I know I can be easily taken in. I know I question my own judgement. Although my gut tells me that my private conversation should not have been discussed with the Psychiatrist, I wondered if I gave IMplicit (is that the right word?) authority for him to do so, if not EXplicit authority. I also wondered if the VERY mild Aspergers 'opinion' (at this point) had even come up or if it was the Psychiatrist's way of saying to the GP that I fell into a similar category to a hypochondriac. I am seriously hacked off about that and I know very well that any assessment process must follow set guidelines and that no other condition could be determined on the basis of one phonecall. I am not looking forward to the phonecall I will have to make to the IA and it looks now like I'll be back to square one.

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Hi,

 

I hope this helps. I paid to be assessed by a private psychologist because I did not want Asperger's on my medical notes. I have a professional career that those with Asperger's syndrome are not expected to be able to be successful at. I would be very unhappy, if having paid privately, liaison occurred with medical professionals without my explicit and written consent. Though I clearly have mild AS, some of the difficulties I have are very severe and the impact upon my life is greater than many. Firstly, please read the new Autism Bill and Strategy which I understand means you are entitled to an assessment. Secondly, when I was diagnosed (I just had to know) I felt as though a mistake had been made. Although I knew I had Asperger's, I was told a couple of things, not widely known, convinced the psychologist I had it. This has helped me to accept the diagnosis even though I knew I had the condition! Given that for adults, it is not uncommon to be misdiagnosed, and to have the history you have, I do feel that the NAS assessor should be aware of this and do an independent assessment. On the other hand, professionally and ethically, the NAS assessor was obliged to be upfront with you. Stating that he/she could not diagnose was upfront legally so some of what has been said is very encouraging. It is true that having mild AS makes no difference in terms of support resources and I passionately believe more should be done for adults who can appear to have a near normal life and hold down a job. As you are paying for the assessment, I suggest you ask the assessor's opinion of the merits of an the assessment given what he has been told. If the answer is no, as it is likely to be mild, I would have no confidence in the assessor as he/she should recognise the importance of you knowing once and for all regardless and the importance of an assessment to you with a fresh pair of eyes (so to speak).

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Just to echo BD, there is no such thing as 'mild AS'...there is no such term used in the diagnostic criteria.

 

I was fortunate to have an NHS dx through the specialist adult clinic run by Prof Simon Baron-Cohen at Cambridge. The idea that I would benefit from an assessment was first raised by my son's paediatrician, and she wrote to my GP. After a very unpleasant appointment with my local mental health team, who identified 'traits of ASD', I was then referred by my GP to the specialist clinic.

 

One of my over-riding concerns was that if I did indeed have AS, I wanted a proper dx by a qualified professional who specialised in adult dx, as I felt in that way I would know that the dx was accurate and would also be respected by the wider medical profession. A few years ago I had to say in A&E that I had AS, and the first thing the nurse asked was where did I get my dx.

 

Bid :)

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Hi Treyza -

 

yes a lack of resources leading to 'difficult' (by which I take it you mean 'bad') decisions being made... i.e. so called professionals making diagnoses of disorders that don't exist to reassure people who do not meet the criteria for a clear diagnosis that does exist.

 

I'm really, really sorry if that 'offends' anyone, but having just re-read an earlier post made by Lyndalou about her childhood and 'excommunication' after a long-term emotional and social investment in a religious fundamentalist group who accused her father of sexually abusing her and suggested both she and her mother were possessed by demons I really do believe there are enough psychological traumas in her background to explain all of the symptoms she now ascribes to 'mild autism'. I think ANY assessment - would need to take full consideration of all those factors and any other relevant factors that might have arisen in the intervening years. I don't know if any of those factors have been discussed to any degree with either of the professionals making the 'Very Very Mild' diagnosis, or even with the GP making the referral, but if they have not they should be. It might be very reassuring to pin all of lifes difficulties on a handy label like Mild AS, but in the longterm it could also be extremely damaging. Lindylou has not only 'rationalised' her own symptoms by labelling them as Asperger's syndrome, but retrospectively projected that diagnosis - or at least 'traits' of it' - onto her parents as an explanation for their behaviours.

 

Again, I am not making any judgements about Lindylou's or anyone else's diagnosis or concerns - I am merely responding to the question posed 'is this professional' with my opinion that it is not, and voicing my concern that casual or over-the-phone diagnosis seem to be on the increase, often without full assessment of (what could be) profoundly significant psychological or sociological events ever even being discussed, let alone taken into consideration. That goes far beyond 'unprofessional' and into the realms, IMO, of negligent and potentially dangerous. It also, if accepted as 'the norm' (which endorsement by the NAS would seem to suggest) has significant implications for ALL people with Asperger's syndrome, and given the proposed 'merging' of the diagnosis to one umbrella term, for all autistic people too.

 

In addition, I find the idea of a diagnosis that is used only as a discretionary 'top trump' in situations where the diagnosed person thinks it will be useful or beneficial to be wholly inappropriate, but increasingly that is what 'AS' (mild or otherwise) seems to be coming to mean. In your own case, you feel an 'official' diagnosis would have a negative impact on your professional career, but you want, at your discretion, to access any of the 'positives' such a dx might offer. The words 'cake' and 'eat it' come to mind.

 

L&P

 

BD

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Hi All

 

Again, I find it completely reasonable that Baddad would come to the conclusion that the difficulties I have experienced in my life to date were most likely caused by a past traumatic life experience. I thought that myself for years so why would anyone else think otherwise? I am well aware that the events I described in the other post are the type that could cause difficulties with social interaction and/or fear of rejection along with increased anxiety, depression and self-esteem issues and I have always tackled these above difficulties coming from the perspective that this period of my life had a profound detrimental effect on my mental health.

 

However, I know that AS is a LIFELONG condition and if I have it, it is in my DNA and evidence of it would have been there from an early age just as it has been with my son. I believe I have that evidence. I am also well aware that there is a debate about whether or not there are differences between how boys and girls present or if the difficulties are just perceived differently by others. I have no doubt that my experience within the church has most likely exacerbated any problems I already had.

 

I had physical manifestations of anxiety well before the psychological abuse by the church began at the age of 15 that I can trace back to early childhood. Up until 15, the church was my family and I felt safe there. A sample of childhood examples, which I believe fall into the category of AS are that I played a great deal of the time on my own outside of school, engaging in quite obsessive play such as standing on my head for extended periods, bouncing balls against walls repeatedly and jumping down steps (I did this all day, every day one summer)and reading at the age of 6 until the wee small hours, the 'correct' way, upside down and in mirrors. I had my mouth sellotaped up by the teacher at 5 because I couldn't understand I wasn't meant to shout out the answers to her mental arithmetic questions. My report cards always stated that I had difficulty understanding new concepts and that I was a 'daydreamer'. I was absolutely petrified of toilets from the age of 6 until I was 13 and at the same time I developed a twitch I had for many years because I has terrified of this teacher - she told my parents that she couldn't stand me because I got in her way all the time. At 11 I had alopecia and started to develop ways of avoiding my classmates between classes - I just could not be near my classmates outside a classroom setting and at this age too I wanted to 'turn into' a boy. At 14 my mum's friend told her that I was 'downright weird'. The list goes on but I am know I am just trying to 'prove' that I haven't just picked a condition out of thin air to make myself feel better and that I am trying to fit in, even on here - how sad is that?

 

The IA is unaware of any of this and is also unaware of my past history with the church. I mostly focused on my difficulties with friendships and my day-to-day anxieties with him, some of which I now recognise as sensory issues. I only discussed my anxiety and my past chequered work problems with my GP. As a result, the psychiatrist will only be aware of what he has been told by the IA and the GP. I had hoped that all these issues would be fully explored (perhaps not at the 'opinion' stage but most certainly at a later 'assessment' stage) and as I had a very good working relationship with the therapist I had last year who I mentioned a number of these issues to (albeit in a 'Wasn't I a weird kid?' sort of way) I was hoping too that he would be able to throw his observations into the mix (incidentally, the conclusion he reached at the end of our therapy period was that he didn't think that the church abuse was the root cause of my difficulties).

 

I have been told that a 'Working Group' has been set up in the region to discuss how to address the number of adults presenting themselves for assessment. I really am unsure as to how I proceed from here because there is still the question of the Psychiatrist who quite obviously feels that Adult AS (or rather adults who wished to be assessed for AS) is not worth his attention. The only option I can think of is to write to the Direct of Services to request that I be seen by another Psychiatrist (even though it is unlikely). I think that I now have no faith in going down the route of seeing the IA, especially as everyone says they have no knowledge of this happening anywhere else!

 

I will have a look at the Autism Bill, Treyza. It's probably a good idea to gen up for my son anyway!

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Hi again Lynda,

 

Have you tried speaking to any of the clinics that specialise in adult dx? I feel you would get a far more accurate assessment from one of these clinics than from an 'Independent Assessor'. Did you ask what qualifications this IA has to assess for ASD in adults?

 

I also think that given the background of child/adolescent abuse you describe, you really must disclose this to any clinician assessing you. Another reason I feel to have an assessment from a qualified clinical psychologist or psychiatrist qualified to assess adult ASD. It sounds like a very complex case to me.

 

Bid :)

Edited by bid

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Hi lindylou -

 

just wanted to reiterate that I am in no way making any sort of 'judgement' about your suspicions of AS, or in any way trying to suggest that someone coming from a traumatic childhood couldn't also be on the autistic spectrum. I am purely highlighting that full holistic assessment considering all of the factors you mentioned in your other post (and any other significant psychological/sociological life events/history) should be part of any evaluation being made.

 

I don't think you've necessarily 'picked a condition out of thin air' to 'make yourself feel better', but I do think there's a potential if you've lost the 'handle' you did have on it (your faith, and your belief that your faith 'made you what you are') that there's a very real psychological imperative to find, consciously or subconsciously, an alternative 'handle'. That, however, is just my personal opinion, and in no way detracts from the wider issue of AS.

 

I really, really do hope you can find some answers, and whether those answers include a dx of AS or not that they are helpful and life-enhancing.

 

L&P

 

BD

Edited by baddad

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I don't mean to be defensive although it possibly looks that way. It's a good thing to be challenged along with being supported because, let's face it, if I do have to fight my corner in order to get any further I'll sure a hell have to prove that I have an idea what I'm talking about!! :wacko:

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Hi again, lindylou -

Don't know about being 'challenged' - I don't think that's what anyone intends - but being supported often has more to do with being told things you maybe don't want to hear/are uncomfortable with than things that confirm what you already believe. I guess looking back on the whole fundamentalist religion aspects of your life you've now got a pretty good window on that :(

 

L&P

 

BD

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BadDad,

 

Your comments in response to mine are too over analytical, defensive and offensive. To state that being diagnosed with AS is "top trump" and "having your cake and eating it" for having a successful career despite not being able to receive very needed support because of this is ignorant.

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Anyway, the GP came back to me yesterday and told me that the Psychiatrist contacted her and said that he would not refer me for assessment (no surprise there). However, the reason he gave is that he had had a confab with the Independent Assessor (I did not give permission for this) who takes NHS referrals to assess on their behalf and that the IA said that he believed after his phone call with me that I have VERY mild AS and that as there is no treatment for AS anyway that there is little point in me pursuing a diagnosis.

 

Thanks, Lynda

 

Hi Lynda

 

I've said this before and I'm going to say it again because it's important.

 

Autism spectrum disorders are not disorders in the same way that measles or myocardial infarctions or a fractured tibia or or Down Syndrome are disorders.

 

Autism is a bunch of symptoms, in the same way that 'breathing difficulties' or 'impaired mobility' are symptoms. All these labels are accurate descriptions of the symptoms, but they tell you very little about possible causes. If you were having trouble breathing or walking you wouldn't be very happy if a doctor 'diagnosed' you with something you could figure out for yourself. You'd want to know what was causing the problem and get it fixed.

 

There are lots of possible causes of autism (the symptoms). There are already 60 medical conditions known to be associated with those symptoms and that are quite likely to be the cause of them, except we don't know that for sure because we haven't yet figured out the mechanisms. This is why many professionals are reluctant to carry out a 'diagnosis' - 'autism' is not a particularly useful diagnosis to have unless it brings benefits such as access to certain schools or support services.

 

Basically, there's no such thing as a 'normal' human being. Human populations show considerable individual variation and sometimes that variation produces difficulties with social interaction and communication and repetitive behaviours. This doesn't mean that those symptoms aren't a problem, but it also means that there might not be a single 'condition' that causes them.

 

It's very tempting to see a diagnosis in terms of a professional simply having to decide whether or not you'have' a defined medical condition, called Asperger Syndrome. The problem is that although we know that lots of people show the range of symptoms described by Hans Asperger, we don't know whether or not they have the same 'condition' - or any 'condition' at all for that matter.

 

That doesn't mean that your difficulties with whatever you have difficulties with isn't caused by a biological factor. Nor does it mean that you don't need support. But I wouldn't spend too much time chasing after an elusive diagnosis if I were in your shoes. I would focus on the specific difficulties you have and focus on getting help with those.

 

cb

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Basically, there's no such thing as a 'normal' human being. Human populations show considerable individual variation and sometimes that variation produces difficulties with social interaction and communication and repetitive behaviours. This doesn't mean that those symptoms aren't a problem, but it also means that there might not be a single 'condition' that causes them.

 

It's very tempting to see a diagnosis in terms of a professional simply having to decide whether or not you'have' a defined medical condition, called Asperger Syndrome. The problem is that although we know that lots of people show the range of symptoms described by Hans Asperger, we don't know whether or not they have the same 'condition' - or any 'condition' at all for that matter.

 

 

Hi cb

 

I suppose the way I look at it is that if there is a significant section of the population who are able to spend time with each other without spending much of their time having to think about what they say before they say it, examining what they say and what their body posture is etc while they are saying it and then examining what they said afterwards (to greater or lesser degrees depending on who they speak to and the context) as I do, then they for want of a better word are more 'normal' with regards to social interaction than I am. I am not constituting 'normal' for 'better' but as it is likely that there will be limited understanding of 'different' by 'normal' people for some time to come then, I think a diagnosis would be helpful for me to explain those differences, no matter how 'normal' I appear to them. (That is assuming AS is the 'correct' diagnosis encompassing enough of the variations from the norm for me)

Edited by Lyndalou

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I can see the point of that.

 

Just be aware that a reluctance to diagnose might not be due to the incompetence of the doctor or due to anything personal - it might be that the doctor is aware of the issues around diagnosis.

 

cb

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BadDad,

 

Your comments in response to mine are too over analytical, defensive and offensive. To state that being diagnosed with AS is "top trump" and "having your cake and eating it" for having a successful career despite not being able to receive very needed support because of this is ignorant.

 

I have not said that having AS is a top trump or 'having your cake and eating it'. I have said that is how some people - usually those who have home diagnosed or diagnosed by a facebook app or by a so-called professional who has offered them a reassuring but medically unrecognised 'mild' variety interpretation of their self-diagnosis - choose to use it. An alternative interpretation to the idea of someone having a successful career despite not being able to recieve very needed support is that their own evaluation of 'very needed support' is something of an overestimation. Again, the words 'cake' and 'eat it' spring to mind. Before bandying words like 'ignorant' about you should take care to ensure you've actually read and interpreted correctly what people have written, as words like 'pot' and 'kettle' can otherwise come to mind. Having said that, I guess in such situations the potential would always exist to phone the right sort of consultant and get them to tag 'borderline', 'mild' or 'traits of' dyslexia to a dx, thus providing a second trump card for use at the owners discretion.

 

If you wish to discuss the meaning of the word 'ignorant' further, or any of the other words you've chosen like 'analytical', 'defensive' or 'offensive' please PM me, as that discussion is not really relevant to the OP's question. If you find this post 'offensive',consider first, your own use of highly inflamatory words like 'ignorant'.

 

L&P

 

BD

Edited by Kathryn

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Hi cb

 

I suppose the way I look at it is that if there is a significant section of the population who are able to spend time with each other without spending much of their time having to think about what they say before they say it, examining what they say and what their body posture is etc while they are saying it and then examining what they said afterwards (to greater or lesser degrees depending on who they speak to and the context) as I do, then they for want of a better word are more 'normal' with regards to social interaction than I am. I am not constituting 'normal' for 'better' but as it is likely that there will be limited understanding of 'different' by 'normal' people for some time to come then, I think a diagnosis would be helpful for me to explain those differences, no matter how 'normal' I appear to them. (That is assuming AS is the 'correct' diagnosis encompassing enough of the variations from the norm for me)

 

Hi again, Lindylou -

 

I don't know if this is reassuring or not, but I can tell you that of the many autistic people I know the percentage that spend much of their time thinking about what they are going to say before they say it, examining what they say and considering their body posture when they say it is very, very small.

I think examining what you say after you've said it is something many autistic people do, but I'm pretty sure many non-autistic people do too, and that social unease, lack of confidence etc are a big part of that for autistic people and non-autistic people alike.

Again, I think historical factors in your life are more than significant enough to explain many - if not all - of the 'symptoms' you are now ascribing to AS, and that these events need to be fully considered by anyone assessing you. I would go further, and say that if I was in your shoes I would need a convincing explanation for why they could be rejected as the basis or root of my problems, because they would seem fundamantal issues to most 'outside' observers (though like most people who live through such events and a process of 'normalisation' that accommodates them they could very easily seem [but not be] insignificant to the individual concerned).

 

You do seem very determined that AS is 'the answer', and I'm sure that such determination will provide you with a diagnosis further down the road. Whether that diagnosis is appropriate or not I couldn't possibly say, but I do suspect that rather than providing an 'answer' it will just provide a new set of questions. I also believe that if it is not appropriate, a dx is potentially more harmful than helpful.

 

L&P

 

BD

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I think it is also worth remembering that part of the diagnostic criteria for adult dx is that difficulties need to have a significant negative impact on the individual.

 

There is of course always going to be a grey area between 'AS' and 'NT' (apologies for the clumsy phraseology)...there are going to be some people who have 'traits', etc, but the point is that for these people their 'traits' do not have a significant negative impact, and thus they wouldn't fulfil the diagnostic criteria for AS.

 

HTH

 

Bid :)

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Mod hat on:

 

This is an interesting and controversial thread which is likely to arouse strong feelings.

 

Just a reminder to please respect the views of other posters, keep the discussion on track and avoid personal judgements and attacks which are on individuals rather than the points made.

 

Thankyou :)

 

Kathryn

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Hi Lindylou -

 

I find everything you've said quite unsettling, actually, especially the bit about 'NAS Endorsed I.A.' If the NAS have actually reached the point of 'recommending' Private consultants I for one would be really interested in knowing the process they use for making such recommendations, especially if the ones they 'recommend' are happy to offer casual-but-vague diagnosis on the basis of a single phonecall or an off-the-record casual exchange between colleagues (?).

 

 

NAS have been recommending private alternatives for several years. They have a list of NAS Approved therapists based on an interview and a basic NAS recommended training package.

 

It is exceptionally difficult to get an NHS refferal as an adult at the moment and even if you do manage to get one, there is often a waiting list which can range from nine months to several years depending on your location in the UK. NAS felt a list of private professionals capable of reaching a diagnosis was necessary to address this problem. Unfortunately, although the list exists, it is actually very short, and even private consultation on ASD's have a fairly long waiting list at the moment.

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NAS have been recommending private alternatives for several years. They have a list of NAS Approved therapists based on an interview and a basic NAS recommended training package.

 

It is exceptionally difficult to get an NHS refferal as an adult at the moment and even if you do manage to get one, there is often a waiting list which can range from nine months to several years depending on your location in the UK. NAS felt a list of private professionals capable of reaching a diagnosis was necessary to address this problem. Unfortunately, although the list exists, it is actually very short, and even private consultation on ASD's have a fairly long waiting list at the moment.

Am I understanding this correctly? The qualification for these 'Independent Assessors' is an interview and a basic NAS training package??

 

If this is so, then I have to say I am absolutely appalled!! How can this possibly be adequate to assess an adult for ASD?

 

I am actually gob-smacked!!!!

 

Bid :angry:

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Am I understanding this correctly? The qualification for these 'Independent Assessors' is an interview and a basic NAS training package??

 

If this is so, then I have to say I am absolutely appalled!! How can this possibly be adequate to assess an adult for ASD?

 

I am actually gob-smacked!!!!

 

Bid :angry:

I suspect there's a difference between 'endorsement' and 'recommendation'. Just playing Devil's advocate here (please note the metaphor use - I'm learning! :clap::lol:). I can't find the information about specialists on the NAS website (maybe it's only available from their helpline?) but I would have a suspicion that there's a line to the effect of 'individual must make their own decision as to which professional to use' or something like that. Maybe we should encourage more professionals to give us the third degree (look, another metaphor!!! :clap:) as you had in A&E to verify diagnosis - obviously it shouldn't be like that, and perhaps there needs to be some campaign to say "look Autism ain't fun, it ain't a use when you want dx, and you can't choose when it affects you, that's the whole point of the dx" (hmm, think I should work on my advertisement skills! :lol::rolleyes:)

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I suspect there's a difference between 'endorsement' and 'recommendation'. Just playing Devil's advocate here (please note the metaphor use - I'm learning! :clap::lol:). I can't find the information about specialists on the NAS website (maybe it's only available from their helpline?) but I would have a suspicion that there's a line to the effect of 'individual must make their own decision as to which professional to use' or something like that. Maybe we should encourage more professionals to give us the third degree (look, another metaphor!!! :clap:) as you had in A&E to verify diagnosis - obviously it shouldn't be like that, and perhaps there needs to be some campaign to say "look Autism ain't fun, it ain't a use when you want dx, and you can't choose when it affects you, that's the whole point of the dx" (hmm, think I should work on my advertisement skills! :lol::rolleyes:)

 

I think you also have to consider this in terms of 'retail therapy'... how many shops would stay open for business if customers kept handing over their money then not receiving any 'goods' in return? I imagine Anne Robinson & watchdog would be inundated with calls...

Of course, professionals would never be that mercenary and put trifles like their own livelihoods before their professional ethics, would they? Would they?? :unsure::whistle:

 

I wonder if Dr Zoe Katz (as featured on 'QI') is NAS approved? Or any of her friends listed here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colby_Nolan

 

Sorry, mods, I know a little off topic, but considering it's a thread about the integrity of professionals being consulted for diagnosis, not entirely off topic either...

 

L&P

 

BD

Edited by baddad

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Ooops! Really didn't mean to set the cat amongst the pigeons....

 

I've not had a lot of time to look into things in the last couple of days but I have skim read the info about the Autism Bill and it would appear that the legislation only applies to England. The Autism Bill (Scotland) Act did not pass through the Scotish Parliament so the legislation does not apply here. The NAS (Scotland), along with other organisations are currently lobbying the Scottish Parliament to reconsider the Bill. Thus, it would appear also that NHS Trusts / LA's here do not have the same obligations to provide assessment or services meantime (hence the 'Working Group' within NHS Grampian who may be pre-empting a change of heart on this?)

 

Initially (re assessment) I was given the details for the Scottish Society for Autism National Diagnosis and Assessment Service which is based in the Central Belt, by the NAS Helpline. This was the only 'local' specialist service they had on their records which takes both NHS and private referrals. I then asked my GP about being referred there but she said it would be out of the question as Grampian NHS would not provide funding for assessments done outwith the area (although this is a country-wide service). It was at this point that the GP said I would be referred to the Learning Disabilities Team and I decided to contact the SSANDAS myself and spoke to a Consultant Psychiatrist but the costs involved were prohibitive. It was after THIS that I contacted my local branch of NAS and was told about the Independent Assessor. I have rechecked the information about the service and it cites 15 years experience in Autism assessment and a degree in Autism. I've been too chicken to phone him yet.

 

Lynda

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It was after THIS that I contacted my local branch of NAS and was told about the Independent Assessor. I have rechecked the information about the service and it cites 15 years experience in Autism assessment and a degree in Autism. I've been too chicken to phone him yet.

 

 

Sorry, I'm confused now...I thought you said in your opening post that you have already spoken to the IA??

 

My further concern about the credentials listed, would be that I was clearly told at my assessment (by a psychiatrist at a specilalist clinic for adult dx) that they would also be ruling out other possible conditions. I think this an extremely important element of any assessment, but even more so with your complex background of child/adolescent religious abuse. I would think it absolutely imperative that you are assessed only by a fully qualified clinical psychologist or psychiatrist specialising in adult ASD, as they will have the wider medical background that is needed to make an accurate dx.

 

Bid :unsure:

Edited by bid

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Sorry, I'm confused now...I thought you said in your opening post that you have already spoken to the IA??

 

My further concern about the credentials listed, would be that I was clearly told at my assessment (by a psychiatrist at a specilalist clinic for adult dx) that they would also be ruling out other possible conditions. I think this an extremely important element of any assessment, but even more so with your complex background of child/adolescent religious abuse. I would think it absolutely imperative that you are assessed only by a fully qualified clinical psychologist or psychiatrist specialising in adult ASD, as they will have the wider medical background that is needed to make an accurate dx.

 

Bid :unsure:

Sorry Bid

 

Yes, I have spoken to the IA but I didn't ask him about his credentials. I presumed, I suppose that because I had been told he did assessments on behalf of NHS Grampian by the local branch of the NAS that he was qualified to do the job and I accepted it without question. The phonecall I am not looking forward to making is the one where I ask him why he divulged to the Psychiatrist what I said during that phonecall and why the outcome now seems 'done and dusted' and no-one seems to see the need for me to have a proper assessment. I need (I think) to contact NHS Grampian directly to ask if there are ANY specialist psychologists or psychiatrists in the field in the area and I've got a suspicion the answer is NO. If they won't fund assessments outwith Grampian then I'm kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place...but I will remain optimistic.... :dance:

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