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Xye

Diagnosis... Or not?

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Hi this is my first post and I'm looking for some advice.

 

I am 24 (near 25) and am studying for an MSc which I shall hopefully complete this September. I do not plan on carrying on to do a PhD, which means I shall be looking for a job....

 

For the last 5 years I have seen a psychiatrist who has told me I have Depression, low self esteem and social phobia. However, I have recently seen a different psychiatrist who thinks, because I have not improved in the 5 years I have seen the previous psychiatrist, that I may have ASD and says I certainly share some traits with people who have it.

 

When applying for a job I already must put down if asked directly that I have suffered from mental health issues.

 

My question is thus:

 

Is there any benefit to having an official diagnosis of ASD?

 

While we all know that companies are not supposed to discriminate against people with mental health problems they still clearly do, and it is almost impossible to prove that they are doing so.

 

Does anyone have any experience with this? As I could really do with some advice.

 

Tom.

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In my opinion there is a benefit in obtaining an official diagnosis of ASD. You say you suffer from low self-esteem and depression. Knowing that there is a reason for being the way you are and that you are not alone can feel like a burden being lifted from your shoulders.

 

Regarding employment, putting down ASD might well be better than admitting to 'mental health issues'. Most people now know that people on the spectrum are often of average or above average intelligence and a number of well-known and successful people both now and in the past suffered from ASD.

 

I didn't obtain a diagnosis until after I retired so my experience is quite different from yours. I always worked and made a life for myself but I'm convinced that if I'd learned I was on the spectrum in my twenties I would have done better and been happier.

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Hi Tom, and welcome to the forum.

 

There is very little formal support available for people with ASD. However, a formal diagnosis may help you get appropriate treatment for your mental health difficulties and access informal support such as support/social groups. It may also help you understand yourself and the difficulties you have faced, and help you find better coping skills.

 

I was diagnosed with AS 4 years ago now, and the diagnosis has helped me feel a lot better about myself and start to recover from anxiety and depression. I would definitely recommend you look further into this.

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i have depression ,low self-esteem and social phobia ( anxiety) so can personally relate may help gain more control knowledge and understanding over your life can make work on improving on areas in your life you struggle with find difficult/hard

 

XKLX

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Thanks.

 

I am just really worried that this may ruin my chances of being able to lead a reasonably normal life... well as normal as is possible for me.

 

Then again really i suppose it more depends on the person who's desk the application crosses and what they know about it that matters, and that of course is not something I can know.

 

I am also concerned by myself. I fear that should I get an ASD diagnosis I will, in effect, give up on life. While its social phobia it might be overcome, with ASD....

 

While knowing either way would be good... I'm afraid.

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Why would you give up on life with a diagnosis of ASD but not social phobia - surely the issues you are facing are the same regardless of what name they eventually get given? What you do, or don't do to help yourself shouldn't depend on that.

 

The majority of adults I have met who have gone for diagnosis have found it beneficial - whether it be them being able to accept their differences, or being able to access (what little) support there is out there.

 

Take care

Lynne

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As I see it:

 

Social phobia I can overcome and be able to form friendships and have relationships and so on.

 

ASD, to my mind, means I will never be able to really do that.

 

In other words with Social phobia I am fixable. With ASD I am not.

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I think you need to try and learn a little more about ASD - in doing so you will be able to change your mindset and have a less negative outlook. Many people with ASD go on to have successful relationships and friendships. Many of the adults on the forum who have ASD are married and have children, are successful in the workplace etc. I'm not saying it's always easy for them, but it's entirely possible.

 

My son is quite severely autistic and he has a wonderful relationship with the key people in his life, us, his sister, my parents and sisters, school and his respite carer.

 

Lynne

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I can understand what you mean, but I think you're worrying needlessly. Although ASD is not curable, people with ASD can always learn new skills. An assessment may define your difficulties for you and identify the things you need to work on.

 

People with ASD can form friendships and relationships. It may be that they are not typical, but the important thing is that they are beneficial for both parties. Having ASD would not make this impossible.

 

It's also possible that you do have an element of your existing mental health diagnoses in addition to ASD. Understanding that you have ASD could lead to more effective treatment methods and aid your recovery.

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I think you need to try and learn a little more about ASD - in doing so you will be able to change your mindset and have a less negative outlook. Many people with ASD go on to have successful relationships and friendships. Many of the adults on the forum who have ASD are married and have children, are successful in the workplace etc. I'm not saying it's always easy for them, but it's entirely possible.

 

My son is quite severely autistic and he has a wonderful relationship with the key people in his life, us, his sister, my parents and sisters, school and his respite carer.

 

Lynne

 

Lynne is absolutely right! I have a dx of AS, I've been married for nearly 18 years, have 4 kids, and a full-time job working with young people with learning difficulties including autism and complex medical needs.

 

Bid :)

Edited by bid

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Hi -

 

I totally agree with Lynden/Bid. ASD will only be an excuse for giving up if you make it one - it is no more insurmountable than the social anxiety, low self-esteem and depression your previous psychiatrist diagnosed; it's just a new label for the same problems (and may not be appropriate anyway).

TBH it sounds a bit presumptious of your new psychiatrist to dismiss five years of therapy with another professional out of hand purely on the basis of an assumption and some 'shared traits' - which in reality anyone suffering social anxiety, self-esteem issues and depression would. there is, IMO a bit of a 'bandwagon' arising around autism and I think your new psychiatrist is probably ready to jump on it and take you along with him for the ride... That doesn't mean that you couldn't be autistic - it's just an acknowledgement that an NT person with the 'symptoms' you describe would manifest 'some traits' of autism, and none of the things your previous psych diagnosed are in any way exclusive to autistic people...

 

Trying to put that into some other sort of medical context, think of a situation where you had been seeing a GP for IBS - a long term, stress related illness that affects millions. If you went to a new GP and he said 'well some of the symptoms you're describing would also apply to someone with bowel cancer, so I'm recommending chemo and giving you no more than six months to live... My guess is that under those circumstances you'd want the new doctor to be a bit more thorough in his examination before offering even a speculative diagnosis/intervention, and you'd probably have a few questions you wanted to ask the old doctor too(?)

 

L&P

 

BD

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I think you need to try and learn a little more about ASD - in doing so you will be able to change your mindset and have a less negative outlook. Many people with ASD go on to have successful relationships and friendships. Many of the adults on the forum who have ASD are married and have children, are successful in the workplace etc. I'm not saying it's always easy for them, but it's entirely possible.

 

My son is quite severely autistic and he has a wonderful relationship with the key people in his life, us, his sister, my parents and sisters, school and his respite carer.

 

Lynne

I can understand what you mean, but I think you're worrying needlessly. Although ASD is not curable, people with ASD can always learn new skills. An assessment may define your difficulties for you and identify the things you need to work on.

 

People with ASD can form friendships and relationships. It may be that they are not typical, but the important thing is that they are beneficial for both parties. Having ASD would not make this impossible.

 

It's also possible that you do have an element of your existing mental health diagnoses in addition to ASD. Understanding that you have ASD could lead to more effective treatment methods and aid your recovery.

Lynne is absolutely right! I have a dx of AS, I've been married for nearly 18 years, have 4 kids, and a full-time job working with young people with learning difficulties including autism and complex medical needs.

 

Bid :)

 

I am sorry I am Just going by the way I feel. And yes maybe the depression is taking its toll on me and has tinted my world view so that I cannot believe that anything good can happen anymore.

 

Hi -

 

I totally agree with Lynden/Bid. ASD will only be an excuse for giving up if you make it one - it is no more insurmountable than the social anxiety, low self-esteem and depression your previous psychiatrist diagnosed; it's just a new label for the same problems (and may not be appropriate anyway).

TBH it sounds a bit presumptious of your new psychiatrist to dismiss five years of therapy with another professional out of hand purely on the basis of an assumption and some 'shared traits' - which in reality anyone suffering social anxiety, self-esteem issues and depression would. there is, IMO a bit of a 'bandwagon' arising around autism and I think your new psychiatrist is probably ready to jump on it and take you along with him for the ride... That doesn't mean that you couldn't be autistic - it's just an acknowledgement that an NT person with the 'symptoms' you describe would manifest 'some traits' of autism, and none of the things your previous psych diagnosed are in any way exclusive to autistic people...

 

Trying to put that into some other sort of medical context, think of a situation where you had been seeing a GP for IBS - a long term, stress related illness that affects millions. If you went to a new GP and he said 'well some of the symptoms you're describing would also apply to someone with bowel cancer, so I'm recommending chemo and giving you no more than six months to live... My guess is that under those circumstances you'd want the new doctor to be a bit more thorough in his examination before offering even a speculative diagnosis/intervention, and you'd probably have a few questions you wanted to ask the old doctor too(?)

 

L&P

 

BD

 

BD I feel you are jumping in without knowing all the facts.

 

These two psychiatrists have talked too each other about me (apparently) and so is aware that in 5 years of treatment including antidepressants/antianxiety medication, and cbt, nothing has changed.

 

I really did dislike the first psych, and am frankly glad that he is leaving now but before I knew this I had already applied to see another one. The reason being that I had asked for some form of counseling and he had dismissed it out of hand saying I was too young to have issues which needed to be talked about.

 

The second psychiatrist when i first met him did a kind of basic test or something at our first meeting and he (again apparently) knows something about autism.

 

 

BUT BACK TO THE POINT:

 

When you were applying for jobs how did the employers take the ASD diagnosis? I mean did they ask you or anything? I mean I know they are not even supposed to see the health report thingy but still....

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BD I feel you are jumping in without knowing all the facts.

 

I didn't 'jump in' to anything; I responded to the information you had given. Every point I raised, however, is relevent to your situation - you have had mental health issues for 5 years or more... Relabelling them 'autism' isn't going to change anything, and on the basis of the information you've given could actually be a complete misdirection, especially as you seem to acknowledge having the kind of personal psychology/mindset that may well make a negative out of such a dx and use it to disable yourself further. The point I was making is that if you want to be 'unfixable' and you think ASD will make you 'unfixable' your long term prospect will be 'unfixable', regardless of whether you have autism or not.

 

I imagine there are very few psychiatrists these days who don't 'know something' about autism, in the same way that there are very few teaching assistants, sencos, dinner ladies etc etc who don't 'know something' about autism. I happen to think psychiatrists are just as capable of being wrong about what they think they know about autism as those TA's, sencos and dinner ladies. That's not a comment on either of your psychiatrists, because I obviously couldn't know, but the new one does seem a bit fast out of the blocks IMO.

 

Anyway, BACK TO YOUR POINT: I think the way employers respond to job applicants who declare medical conditions varies from employer to employer, but I suspect those who are prejudice to people with mental health issues and/or autism respond equally unreasonably to both. I suspect the levels of ignorance regarding both might mean that autism was perceived less negatively, but that would depend on the 'sterotypes' from which the employer has assembled his/her prejudices.

 

L&P

 

BD

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When you were applying for jobs how did the employers take the ASD diagnosis? I mean did they ask you or anything? I mean I know they are not even supposed to see the health report thingy but still....

 

Well, I had already been in my job for a couple of years when I got my dx...but I was asked to go for a promotion (which I got, and they didn't ask me anything about my upcoming assessment during the interview) when I had already told my line manager about my referral.

 

I have since ticked the appropriate box on various HR forms, and on a couple of occasions had to ask for specific adjustments during in-house training because of my AS, which were fine.

 

However, I do work at a residential special school, so they have a good knowledge of ASD, plus the staff in general are not what I would call 'mainstream' themselves so they tend to be more accepting of difference. I would imagine things might be very different in other careers.

 

HTH

 

Bid :)

Edited by bid

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Also Xye, each of us has the complete free will to choose how we tackle the challenges life presents to us.

 

You can choose to view a possible dx of ASD as the utter end, or you can face it head on and be determined to live the best life you can.

 

Nobody, but nobody has an easy ride. Some people face greater challenges, others face lesser or different challenges. What matters is how you choose to tackle them.

 

Hope you get some answers soon to help you see things more positively.

 

Bid :)

Edited by bid

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Also Xye, each of us has the complete free will to choose how we tackle the challenges life presents to us.

 

You can choose to view a possible dx of ASD as the utter end, or you can face it head on and be determined to live the best life you can.

 

Nobody, but nobody has an easy ride. Some people face greater challenges, others face lesser or different challenges. What matters is how you choose to tackle them.

 

Hope you get some answers soon to help you see things more positively.

 

Bid :)

 

If the forums had a like button I would use it on this post Bid :D

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I'm not sure if or how I should reply as I fear I may have upset some people here.

 

Thank you Bid.

 

I am just so so tired of having to fight for everything. And what is maybe the hardest thing is that I have no support. I have no friends or mates or anything, and I end up getting so frustrated a my parents because I simply cannot find the words to describe what i think and feel when I talk to them. :wallbash::tearful:

 

To be honest I don't know what to do anymore. I keep putting one foot infront of the other in the hope that one day something good might happen. Though if I didn't have bad luck I'd have no luck at all.

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I'm not sure if or how I should reply as I fear I may have upset some people here.

 

 

I wouldn't worry, they/we are a pretty accommodating lot most of the time...

A couple of things to bear in mind, though, it's probably not a good idea to make one of your first posts on an autism forum one that talks about autistic people being 'unfixable' (the implication being that they are 'broken' or in need of 'fixing' in some way as well as suggesting that they would be incapable of overcoming any difficulties their diagnosis might present for them), or to project any difficulties you might have in your life onto a speculative diagnosis.

 

HTH

 

L&P

 

BD.

 

Lynden - If the forums had a 'like' button I'm pretty sure it would very quickly become a negative! :lol:

 

L&P

 

BD

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I am just so so tired of having to fight for everything. And what is maybe the hardest thing is that I have no support. I have no friends or mates or anything, and I end up getting so frustrated a my parents because I simply cannot find the words to describe what i think and feel when I talk to them. :wallbash::tearful:

 

To be honest I don't know what to do anymore. I keep putting one foot infront of the other in the hope that one day something good might happen. Though if I didn't have bad luck I'd have no luck at all.

 

I honestly don't mean this in a patronising way, but you are very young...unfortunately, this is basically what life is all about. I'm not quite twice your age, but my adult life as comprised this exactly, ranging from an early abusive relationship, fighting for a child with special needs, looking after my dad as he died from dementia, another child being badly injured in a road accident, money and housing problems...and many, many deeply personal disasters.

 

I'm not saying this to make out I'm special in any way...I guarantee variations of my story can be repeated by every adult on here. BUT, what the majority of us have tried to do is put our heads down and plod on, determined that however bad things get, we are not going to give in, give up, or become bitter, unhappy people.

 

Sadly, you can't escape cr*p in this life, sometimes a whole shed-load, sometimes completely unfairly. There will always be people who appear 'luckier' than you are...also richer, more attractive, more intelligent, etc. AND sadly, some who are more bitter, more disillusioned, more negative.

 

There is a saying about this life that goes 'this is no dress rehearsal' >:D<<'> Don't waste it feeling hard done by, whatever the cause, ASD, poor family relationships, ill-health, etc, etc. Be determined that, whatever happens, when you are old, you will look back and say you put up a bl**dy good fight to have the happiest and best life you could.

 

Bid :)

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You definitely didn't upset me - I just found it sad for you that you felt like you wouldn't be able to have a full life if you were diagnosed ASD, and I know from personal experience, and through work that it's not the case.

 

I hope you can find some help and support soon :)

 

Lynne

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I am just really worried that this may ruin my chances of being able to lead a reasonably normal life... well as normal as is possible for me.

 

I am also concerned by myself. I fear that should I get an ASD diagnosis I will, in effect, give up on life. While its social phobia it might be overcome, with ASD....

 

Why would you give up on life with a diagnosis of ASD but not social phobia - surely the issues you are facing are the same regardless of what name they eventually get given? What you do, or don't do to help yourself shouldn't depend on that.

 

The majority of adults I have met who have gone for diagnosis have found it beneficial - whether it be them being able to accept their differences, or being able to access (what little) support there is out there.

 

As I see it:

 

Social phobia I can overcome and be able to form friendships and have relationships and so on.

 

ASD, to my mind, means I will never be able to really do that.

 

In other words with Social phobia I am fixable. With ASD I am not.

 

I think you need to try and learn a little more about ASD - in doing so you will be able to change your mindset and have a less negative outlook. Lynne

 

Relabelling them 'autism' isn't going to change anything,

 

The point I was making is that if you want to be 'unfixable' and you think ASD will make you 'unfixable' your long term prospect will be 'unfixable', regardless of whether you have autism or not.

 

Also Xye, each of us has the complete free will to choose how we tackle the challenges life presents to us.

 

You can choose to view a possible dx of ASD as the utter end, or you can face it head on and be determined to live the best life you can.

Bid :)

 

I'm not sure if or how I should reply as I fear I may have upset some people here.

 

A lot of this discussion is exactly where I am coming from, I have lived with the hope that I will sort out everything and that it can all be "fixed" somehow. When I was diagnosed with AS it suddenly felt like that wasn't the case.

The logic went like this: mental health probs can be fixed - ASD can't

 

I see this may appear ignorant, but it is how it felt.

 

I think it is true, that the way you handle something, think about it or approach it, will effect the outcome, that if you view something as unfixable it will be unfixable etc...

 

The thing I disagree with is that relabelling things as autism doesn't change anything... I think it does change things, it changes how you understand yourself, how others understand you, it changes how you think about yourself and your past, it changes your comprehension of so many events - including hours spent talking to 'professionals', it changes how society views you - some people are really accepting, others are really ignorant, and consequently this changes how people feel they can behave, for some the mask can lift, they know why they are how they are, for others the social pressures remain and nothing really changes. The term also is relevant in terms of employment - again mixed responses and as someone pointed out mental heath as a term has its own stigmas attached.

 

Xye, I understand that you don't know how to respond through fear of upsetting people, I myself have had a few days off from saying anything for this very reason and because I have had problems with getting across what I'm saying in a way that won't be misunderstood. I hope you are braver than me and keep trying because it is you that you are trying to help, so I guess its important to remember not to give up on that.

 

Its also really important to remember that not everyone will agree, but if you try and read other people's responses with an open mind you can take from that what feels right to you at the time. It is through these different opinions that you can find a 'balance' of sorts for your own opinions (e.g if everyone agreed with you - there might not be anything useful to gain from the discussion)

 

In terms of your original question about employment I think it depends from situation to situation, it would depend if you wanted to be up front and say "hey this is who I am, but I might need a helping hand or a bit of understanding" or whether you preferred to keep it to yourself... there are benefits to both, but being open is probably the healthier option in terms of acceptance and if you ever did need help the employer would at least be aware and possibly help - even at the risk of being turned away by some employers because of it... I reckon it also depends on how autism would effect your ability to work, if it wasn't really a factor then maybe you wouldn't need to say about it.....

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Hi again Xye,

 

I hope BD won't mind me quoting him from another thread:

 

I know many autistic adults living happy and fulfilled lives, and that includes adults living in residential care, adults living in supported living accommodation and single and happily married autistic people living completely independently. Some of them live busy, active lives and are happy to do so, others live more private / quiet lives and are happy to do so. I know neurotypical people who have made similar lifestyle choices to both groups I also think you severely underestimate the number of neurotypical people in the world who are desperately unhappy, though of course for neurotypicals (just like autistics) happiness is a sliding scale and people can be anywhere along it, and that can vary at different times in their lives.

 

Bid :)

Edited by bid

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A lot of this discussion is exactly where I am coming from, I have lived with the hope that I will sort out everything and that it can all be "fixed" somehow. When I was diagnosed with AS it suddenly felt like that wasn't the case.

The logic went like this: mental health probs can be fixed - ASD can't

 

I see this may appear ignorant, but it is how it felt.

 

I think it is true, that the way you handle something, think about it or approach it, will effect the outcome, that if you view something as unfixable it will be unfixable etc...

 

The thing I disagree with is that relabelling things as autism doesn't change anything... I think it does change things, it changes how you understand yourself, how others understand you, it changes how you think about yourself and your past, it changes your comprehension of so many events - including hours spent talking to 'professionals', it changes how society views you - some people are really accepting, others are really ignorant, and consequently this changes how people feel they can behave, for some the mask can lift, they know why they are how they are, for others the social pressures remain and nothing really changes. The term also is relevant in terms of employment - again mixed responses and as someone pointed out mental heath as a term has its own stigmas attached.

 

Thanks. You pretty much said what I wanted to say. Or at least I got what I wanted to mean from what you said... :wacko:

 

Hi again Xye,

 

I hope BD won't mind me quoting him from another thread:

 

Bid :)

 

Thanks. I guess what it all really boils down to is happiness. If I can be happy in what I'm doing then nothing much else really matters. Though maybe that is a discussion for a different thread? (I really have no idea when to let one thread die and create another one)

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Thanks. You pretty much said what I wanted to say. Or at least I got what I wanted to mean from what you said... :wacko:

 

Thanks. I guess what it all really boils down to is happiness. If I can be happy in what I'm doing then nothing much else really matters. Though maybe that is a discussion for a different thread? (I really have no idea when to let one thread die and create another one)

 

Your welcome - Just glad that the person my comment was intended for understood what I was getting at - and hopefully other people will sort of too - it is so hard to define what is meant in a way that won't be misunderstood :rolleyes: (I struggle with this at the best of times - mainly because I know what I mean and forget it doesn't always come across to other people so clearly.... :blink:

 

Good luck with the happiness :thumbs:

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