Tribunal today

[emmasmum]

It went quite well I think - I'm cautious about being too optimistic but the panel took the LA and school to task over a few points and I only cried once

 

Now we just have to wait for the decision.

 

One thing I'm a little worried about is it was the same judge as at the last tribunal, which we won - our advocate mentioned something about that giving the local authority the right of appeal - does anyone know about this?

 

Carol

[Sally44]

Who was your advocate?

 

I don't know about that. And maybe the LA doesn't either. Why not ask the advocate about it, or phone IPSEA?

 

You must be glad it's over. Did you feel like they listened to what you had to say.

 

Did you have to give an overview of the situation, or did they just want you to answer specific questions? I'm nervous about being asked to give an long speech, because I know my mind will just go blank.

[emmasmum]

The panel were really sympathetic and it wasn't too formal a process.

 

Last time we did opening statement to say how we had got there and then a closing statement/summing up.

 

This time we didn't really do the opening statement - they said our evidence was quite comprehensive. We did the summing up bit and they asked lots of questions of the LA and their witnesses and a few of us.

 

Network 81 represented us. It was useful to have someone else there, as we had no witnesses.

 

If I fail I think it will be on not having done independent reports! (and I know you advised me to!!). LA were saying that there was no evidence that Em needed the specific therapies (such as SALT and OT) which I'd said she'd get at the special school. She also said that my LA only award special school places to pupils at or below the 2nd centile in one or more areas.

 

When's yours coming up?

 

Carol

Edited June 11, 2011 by Tally

[Sally44]

6th July!!

 

So, if the LA are ordered to issue a Statement, you may find yourself back at tribunal again regarding the provision in the Statement.

 

I think that only issuing Statements to pupils below a certain percentile could be viewed as a blanket policy?? You could have a very intelligent child that have real social or emotional difficulties that would still have to be met.

 

If you do get the Statement, it is at that point that you need to consider independent reports. As the process takes so long, when did the EP/SALT last assess Emma? They may need to assess her again, and you want to time your reports so that you get them in as the most up to date reports - just before the deadline for submitting evidence. OR the other way to do it is to get your reports done first, so that the LA cannot carry out those same assessments themselves.

 

I shall have to put together an opening and closing Statement so I am ready for the Tribunal. Would it look stupid if I typed it up and just read it out?

[Grace]

In the book 'The Velvet Bulldozer' they came across the same Judge. They were offered to adjourn for a new panel but declined (they had previously lost). This time they won.

 

I would hope that if the LA objected they should have said so at the time.

 

But I would think for the LA, they see so many Judges anyway, whereas parents generally only go to one or two tribunals. So, basically it would be difficult for an LA to get a Judge that had not judged against them at some point.

 

Sally, I'd do yourself a chronology of events - very simple, but with key dates. You know your case very well, so I think a skeleton list of events will help you IF they ask you to start. I think in all my hearings, the Judges led the way, but we were asked to do a summary at the end.

 

If you prepare a summary, keep it brief, so that if there are any points you want to add from the day, you can add them in/x

[Grace]

Oh and the very best of luck with your result! One of the longest two weeks of your life!x

[Kathryn]

Well done Carol!

 

 

One thing I'm a little worried about is it was the same judge as at the last tribunal, which we won - our advocate mentioned something about that giving the local authority the right of appeal - does anyone know about this?

 

Carol

 

I'm not sure what she means either, you'll have to ask her. The grounds for challenging the decision are stringent and few. The Tribunal can "set aside" the decision because of, among other things, procedural irregularity. This means the decision is looked at again. Perhaps she is thinking the LA might object because they feel the judge was inherently biased against them but I'm not sure what their grounds would be. There are 3 panel members so it's not just down to the judge and as Grace says when parents are appealing multiple times it's more likely than not either party would have come across a judge or panel member at some other point, so that in itself does not constitute grounds for appeal.

 

Either party can appeal to the High Court against a tribunal decision but this is not automatic, permission has to be given and the only grounds are if there was an error in law, not simply that one party thinks the decision is wrong.

 

So try not to worry!

 

Sally - chairs are expert at leading the discussion in specific directions so you won't be asked to give a long speech. The issues will be dealt with one by one.

 

I was at a hearing last week (not as a participant so my job was easier thn anyone's in the room!) where the chair asked the parent at the beginning, "give us a picture of what your child is like". The parent talked for quite a long time but only because she had a lot to say. Apparently it's unusual for the parent to be given so long to speak at the beginning so it may be this particular chair's style. Occasionally the chair or panel asked specific questions to clarify smething e.g. "so would you say she is sensitive?" I think if the parent had been more nervous or inarticulate the panel would have been able to draw out the information by asking more questions. They gave one of the witnesses a bit of a hard time by asking lots of searching questions. At the end of the whole hearing the parent gave a very brief summing up then referred the panel to the extensive information she had already given in the bundle. There were about 3 breaks in a 3 and a half hour hearing (the first was to consider if additional evidence should be allowed)and before each break the chair told everyone what the next issue to be discussed was, e.g OT provision in part 3 ,to give the parties a chance to talk together about anything they wanted to raise specifically about that. So it's not like an exam - there's a chance to reflect on how it's going and to check with witnesses, reps etc whether there's anything else that needs to be dicscussed. The breaks were decided by the chair but she said that further breaks could be requested if necessary. They are obviously following a strict legal procedure but I think they do their best to keep it jargon free and make it as relaxed and informal as possible. I gather that different chairs do things slightly differently, but thy shoul clearly explain at the beginning how the hearing is to be run.

 

Good luck Sally and if you've already submitted a lot in writing don't worry too much about what to say at the end. Best to keep it succinct and above all leave the panel with a very clear impression in their minds of what you really want for your child, so that's probably the best time to turn up the emotional heat a bit. At the end of the day they're human!

 

K x

[Sally44]

At the moment I am putting together the Bundle.

We had the telephone case management hearing and we set the date. The Judge then asked me if I would put together the bundle! So i've been working on that for the last 2 weeks.

I've had to go page by page through the Bundle Send originally sent, which is all mixed up and out of date eventhough I sent in three files that were all in date sequence!

They are pages missing, and pages out of sequence and documents split in half with maybe 10 other documents inbetween them.

 

I also found out - and I still can't believe this - but apparently when you email a document to send, if you email more than one document per day, the Sendist computer system can only identify documents from the heading, so if all three emails had the same heading the person that downloads the email will think it is 3 copies of the same document and will delete the other two. Sendist have admitted this is a failure of their system and they have not downloaded all the documents I sent to them.

 

So I've had to go back through every single email I sent them to check that they downloaded the attachments, and when I have emailed more than one document on the same day, Sendist have not downloaded them all. So i've had to include all of them.

 

I've now got to re-paginate all the pages, and send a further copy to Sendist and the LA. I really don't know why I have been saddled with this job. But i've agreed to do it because otherwise it will not be done properly and my nerves are already in shreds without having to deal with a half missing bundle.

 

My LA have now 'named' my son's secondary school - eventhough he is in year 5. They want the secondary placement to be part of this tribunal too, which I don't think they can do??