Another hacker in the news

[AdamJ]

Here is another report on a court being told that a computer hacker on trial has AS. I'm a little disappointed that it's his AS that gets the headline, and that his defence has highlighted it, as if AS somehow defends or mitigates his alleged actions. If he's smart enough to hack into government computers, he should surely have a good sense of right and wrong.

 

With this and the ongoing McKinnon hacking case, I'm concerned that the media are beginning to portray people with AS to be nothing but trouble.

[Mumble]

Here is another report on a court being told that a computer hacker on trial has AS. I'm a little disappointed that it's his AS that gets the headline, and that his defence has highlighted it, as if AS somehow defends or mitigates his alleged actions. If he's smart enough to hack into government computers, he should surely have a good sense of right and wrong.

 

With this and the ongoing McKinnon hacking case, I'm concerned that the media are beginning to portray people with AS to be nothing but trouble.

[sesley]

now what the government need to do is try them both here on tresspass laws,then give them a 6 month's detained in a secure unit,then employ them to be able to hack into Chinese and paedophile computers. The human race needs autism and needs to learn how to intergrate Neurotypical world into autism world. The professionals need now to be keyed up for early detection and then watch hwo each individual develops and seeing what the talents are then use them for good.The human society does not understand what a fantastic resource people with high functioning ASD/Apsergers are.

[KezT]

huh! I was also going to post about this - it makes me really angry that the AS is the headline

 

can you imagine a headline stating "burglar is diabetic"???

 

I don't really see what hi AS dx has to do wit the case at all - but even in cases whre there may be a direct effect on the person/crime,it doesn't make headlines in the same way :angry:

[av16]

I agree - makes me very angry

[ScienceGeek]

To be honest I don't like the way that they are making such a big deal about his AS as a reason for him doing something that is wrong. Same as the Gary McKinnon case, he knew he was doing wrong, AS or not and why should the consequences be any different AS/NT. What I disagree with in terms of the McKinnon case is that the crime happened on British law by a British citizen therefore they are bound by British laws therefore should be tried by a British court and the sentence should be carried out in the UK. The fact that they are focussing so much on their AS gives the impression that the small minority represent the overall majority, that we aren't law abiding citizens and all out making trouble and using AS as a "get out of jail free card"

[philipo]

I agree with sesly ,if they'd comcentrate on the benefits of this persons skills rather than roll over and let America deport any UK citizen it wants then it would be better for all.

The as is irrelevant .The Crown prosecution service should make an assesment as to wether he was fully responsible for his actions or not,it may be easier to say 'I was drunk at the time' than 'claim' or draw attention to an as dx/opinion.

[AdamJ]

To be honest I don't like the way that they are making such a big deal about his AS as a reason for him doing something that is wrong. Same as the Gary McKinnon case, he knew he was doing wrong, AS or not and why should the consequences be any different AS/NT. What I disagree with in terms of the McKinnon case is that the crime happened on British law by a British citizen therefore they are bound by British laws therefore should be tried by a British court and the sentence should be carried out in the UK. The fact that they are focussing so much on their AS gives the impression that the small minority represent the overall majority, that we aren't law abiding citizens and all out making trouble and using AS as a "get out of jail free card"

 

I know that in civil (tort) cases of this kind, the action can be brought in any jurisdiction in which the alleged wrongful act had a detrimental effect. However, courts in most countries won't stand for 'jurisdiction shopping' so would almost always direct the plaintiff to the most appropriate jurisdiction. As for criminal cases, and the McKinnon one in particular, I don't know if the same ground rules apply but the charges imply that the only injured party was in the United States. I'm not for a moment condoning the potential sentence he is facing, only explaining why the territory in which the case should be tried is proving hard to argue against. I guess this is why the defence against extradition is using AS and also his potential suicide risk as reasons at the very least for him to serve his term in a British prison.

[SimonJC]

A sense of right and wrong there may be, but although it's wrong to use a DX as a defence for a crime, there is an inherent naivety amongst AS sufferers. IIRC, there was a case a few years ago of a chap with AS being radicalised by fundamentalist Islamics, who attempted a bombing in a restaurant (Can't remember his name). However, although his defence tried to use AS as an excuse, the guy himself admitted responsibility for his actions.

 

Now I for one freely admit to being easily led, and so, it seems, may these two 'hackers' have been. It still doesn't negate the responsibility one should take for one's own actions. In any case, we are striving to be accepted as equals, when two idiots come along and try to be excused based on how different AS sufferers are.

[philipo]

They are'nt idiots they are two highly skilled coders/hackers .Obviously with the as dx thing it should be looked at at how niave/ vunerable/influenced by others they were,if at all.

Another point is that no one is saying (do you really want to know the truth?) how easy it is to break into computer networks,particulary goverment ones that tend to lag behind best practice,or how many high quality hacking tools can be downloaded on the net.

So as aside,to me the big point is why does UK.PLC.ltd hand over its citizens to US courts and stand there like like a wise virgin having 'facillitated' these crimes(alledged) by not policing the UK internet.

[Enid]

interesting that they were both diagnosed AFTER the crime.

[philipo]

interesting that they were both diagnosed AFTER the crime.

That is'nt the full deal,there may have been other concerns about their behaivours,but they would of been better using usual crimmy exuses,like ,I was drunk,I did'nt know,or my mates put me up to it..etc......The gary Mckinnon case was the first one and his 'dx'? did show that it was'nt any help to him at all using it to stop the US prosecution/abduction,so the second one,if malicous would pick a better 'exuse' than AS .

There was another post where people were discussing AS fakers and a youtube video .Some people suggested that people could use AS/ASD to defraud the benefits system,i.e. copying behaviours.i replied that its easier to use more standard mental illnesses.

In the film bizz there's this thing called method acting but 'acting' AS/ASD would be nearly impossible,except if someone was assesed one occasion,and even then somone experienced with the (d)isability would be able to through loads of curved balls to catch them out.

Perhaps the Yanks could re open bits of Guantanamo Bay and put all the Brit suspect DX'rs in it.

Edited June 28, 2011 by philipo

[SimonJC]

Ok, so I used the term 'Idiots' rather loosely. In any case, what Messrs McKinnon and Cleary did (if they did), clever as it may or may not be, was clearly misguided (maybe even idiotic), as both of these guys obviously thought they weren't going to get caught. Whilst I agree that the UK was wrong to give in to the US with extradition issues, the fact is that these guys both allegedly broke the law. To what extent will be for a court or otherwise to decide.

[philipo]

Ok, so I used the term 'Idiots' rather loosely. In any case, what Messrs McKinnon and Cleary did (if they did), clever as it may or may not be, was clearly misguided (maybe even idiotic), as both of these guys obviously thought they weren't going to get caught. Whilst I agree that the UK was wrong to give in to the US with extradition issues, the fact is that these guys both allegedly broke the law. To what extent will be for a court or otherwise to decide.

Quite agree if you can't do the time then don't do the crime,after they find out the AS 'defence' is no good then they'll probably use the mitigating circumsatnces,like how the internet helped 'facillitate' the crime.Like a theif who finds a car with the keys in ,gets caught and then says 'cos the door was open and the keys were in the ignition,it encouraged me'.

On the wider issues or peronal/private information,nobodys prosecuting BT,BBC,APPLE,SONY for sending undisclosed data from customers to commercial companies or installing 'rootkits' on peoples computers without their permission,even though technically its a breach of privacy,

Personally ,I have no sympathy with anyone who has their card details stolen if they use them on the net because the technology IS excellent ,but the SECURITY is still abysmal and the vested interest (i.e. commercila and goverment) dont want to admit it as it would collapse peoples confidence with e-commerce.Sony's playstation problems were caused by its low grade in house protection.Sony had no problem subsiding playstation prices with billions but were not as proactive when it came to developing net security systems to protect it's customer's.

Yep its one to watch,its just abig negative when the press is using the AS angle to sell copy,on the plus side it might make more people understand the wider subject of AS/ASD/AUTISIM etc.That's why we should watch these two cases and 'correct' any tabloid slander of people with the (D)isability.cheers philipo...x

[Aeolienne]

IIRC, there was a case a few years ago of a chap with AS being radicalised by fundamentalist Islamics, who attempted a bombing in a restaurant (Can't remember his name)

That was Nicky Reilly who attempted to blow up the Giraffe Café in Exeter. I remember finding it odd how the media described him as having Asperger's and a learning disability - er, surely the two can't got together?