Tribunal on Wednesday

[Sally44]

Tribunal is next Wednesday 6th July.

Still lots of annotating to do!!

Feeling very VERY V E R Y stressed.

Everyone keep everything crossed for us please.

Lets hope that this time we actually get it sorted so that we can all get on with our lives again.

Edited July 1, 2011 by Sally44

[BusyLizzie100]

Thinking of you, Sally <'> >< <'>

 

Lizzie x

[bid]

Everything crossed!!

 

Bid

[mousytrap]

Everything crossed here. Hang in there and good luck!

 

mousy

[Grace]

Go get them Sally! You have put so much effort into this, the LA have been appalling and everything you have said about your DS's needs scream that he needs this school.

 

So go in there, with your head held high, be very honest (you have nothing to hide)and do it knowing that you have done your absolute best for your DS.

 

Don't be afraid to have a glass of wine to help you sleep - I think this bit (just before the hearing) is so hard, but in some ways, if you still have some work to do, it will keep you busy and hopefully, slightly less anxious.

 

Please let us know how it goes on the day, as soon as you feel able.

 

I wish you the sincerest best of luck/x

[Athena]

You will be fine on the day, I am sure of it. I will be thinking of you. Wishing you the best of luck.

[JsMum]

Really rooting for you and your son, it is really stressful and will be thinking about you, and praying that you do get your son what he NEEDS.

 

I think your amazing Sally and sure your going to be fine but if your wobbly just remember your a strong confident person and you can do this, really recommend taking some time out for yourself if you can and if you are oright with massage really recommend some pampering and stressbusting massage.

 

Breathe is my number one tip, you are going to be fine though.

 

Good Luck for the future.

 

JsMumxxx

[Yossarian]

Good luck Sally

 

Advice from a friend who sits on tribunals: keep it to five or so main points

Stay as calm as you can be - you can request a break if you need one

Make sure you have an intro statement and a final statement

Remember the panel is not interested in who said what to whom. They will want to find out whether the LA's provision is appropriate or not, and whether the provision you want is appropriate or not

Don't let them distract you, bring it back to your child. Don't get into debating how great their service is etc, just bring it back to your child

 

I'm sure you know all this.

 

Will be thinking of you

[Kathryn]

Wishing you the very very best for Wednesday and hope the outcome is the right one for your son.

 

<'>

 

K x

[Lynden]

Good luck for Wednesday - fingers crossed it all goes well.

 

Lynne x

[dana]

Good luck, Sally! I hope that this time your son will get all he needs so your lives can finally move on! I'll keep my fingers cross and will be thinking of you.

 

Danaxxx

[Karen A]

<'> <'>

I will be thinking of you and hope you have a good day.

Karen.

[workingmum]

Rooting for you, hope you have a good day.

[Athena]

Try to have a good night's sleep (easier said than done I know!) Wishing you good luck for tomorrow.

[mossgrove]

Best of luck tomorrow

 

Simon

x

[Sally44]

Got an email mid-day saying they're standing down the Appeal for tomorrow because they don't have a Judge.

 

Unbelieveable. This is the second time they've postponed it.

 

I've been chasing them all week because they had not set a venue. But I wasn't that worried because I know they just book a hotel if they cannot get anything else. Turns out the REAL reason was not the venue, but the lack of a Judge.

 

So when we had the telephone case management and decided on the new Appeal date, that was never scheduled in, and apparently they were relying on a cancellation!

 

There is no way this can be re-arranged during July. So now we will be going over into Year 6 - transfer year - which changes the whole approach as we now have to consider the primary placement for year 6 as well as the secondary placement.

 

I'm going to put in a complaint and am also waiting to hear from the Listings Manager tomorrow. Had a good cry about it - nothing else you can do about it really. Just deal with it and start - yet again - to gather dates.

 

What really concerns me is that the listings department said that IF they had managed to find an available Judge even by this morning, they would have sent them the papers for tomorrow. That is just not on. The panel are supposed to get the papers at least a week before the Appeal. I don't want someone turning up on the day, not even having the read the information.

 

I'm feeling so let down. The Appeal system is supposed to be the organisation that actually deals with the children that are already being let down by the system. To find that that system is also letting you down is very worrying.

 

I've spent most of the day in bed. Just got up to post this, and i'm going back to bed again!

 

I'm totally drained.

[Karen A]

<'> <'>

That is tough and must be very frustrating.

 

Karen.

[Yossarian]

Really sorry Sally. Incompetence heaped upon incompetence

Try and give yourself a night off if you can

[Sally44]

Well, i'm thinking that either we are cursed, or that someone above is working the strings so that we get the right Judge. And i'm hoping on the latter!

 

Spoke to SEND this morning and they are talking about getting a salaried Judge. Because even if we arrange another date, we still would not be scheduled, and could again be cancelled!

 

It turns out that usually around 75% of cases do not make it to tribunal. But that recently they are all going through.

 

I spoke with the independent speech therapist and she said she's had 3 Appeals cancelled this week due to the same reason.

[BusyLizzie100]

Hi Sally,

 

How frustrating!!! Maybe the cancellations are because the tribunal's trying to rattle through all the fast-tracked transition to secondary appeals?!

 

My friend was at tribunal in June for his Y6 son but they didn't finish, and have to go back in July to finish off. Presumably that second date had to be conjured up from somewhere???

 

Hopefully, as you say, fate is working in your favour...

 

Lizzie xxx

[Kathryn]

Aargh how incredibly frustrating and demoralising after all the build up to it. I think Lizzie could be right - SEND undertake to hear all seconary transfer appeals before the end of July so they are likely to be prioritising those right now.

 

Definitely put in a complaint - they need to sort themselves out.

 

K x

[Grace]

I can't for the life of me remember where I heard it, but I know someone else had the same thing happen to them - that's really sh*t!

 

It really is not right and to be honest, with the number of HUGE errors that I have been on the receiving end of from SEND, I think someone really needs to be looking at the whole dept. They thought my hearing had been cancelled and I was distraught and even that turned out to be a mistake!

 

If you are going to have a salaried judge - what are the rest - surely they all get paid? Do they mean someone who is a full-time Judge, as opposed to one who just sits on panels, when they happen to be available? If so, I hope you get one of the ones who does telephone management hearings, as my experience and others have been very positive about them - little patience with LA tricks.

 

I was looking at the time just before I logged on and thought that you might still be at it; can't believe you never got started! Really is so unfair.

 

Please let us know what happens/x

[Athena]

Unbelievable! Sally, that's just not on at all, but I would be nervous about complaining to SEND, as you really want them to be on your side. Maybe I would complain after the hearing...

But how frustrating and perfectly miserable for you to go through all this and then get cancelled!

[JsMum]

Is this the first sign of the SEND system callapsing due to the sheer NUMBER of parents willing to go all the way to get what their children NEED.

 

I am in the beliefe of your other post that this is defo ment to be to get the right judge but the frustration having to wait again and again must be driving you crazy, if your salt lady said 3 have also been cancelled at least you know your not alone and that its just the sheer numbers going towards tribunal!

 

Which in a way is a good sign parents are fighting back.

 

All that money though that the LEA are using to Fight against parents could be used to actually help towards provisions and therapies, instead 20 grand per child is going down the SEND drain.

 

I know its frustrating but keep fighting, there is a reason for what is happening.

 

JsMumxxx

[Athena]

I did some number crunching of the number of appeals by LA in SENDIST's last annual report. The number of appeals that some LA's had received had increased by over 75%!! No wonder SENDIST are struggling. My theory? As budget cuts are biting, LA's are taking an increasingly hard line in terms of all aspects of SEN - agreeing to assess, issuing Statements and then the quality of statements issued, in terms of quantifying and specifying provision.

[Sally44]

I have complained to the Listings Department. I don't know if i'll have the time presently to send in a formal complaint.

 

My witnesses are claiming for their lost wages, but are not charging me their witness fee thankfully!!

 

But now it means that his Statement, which was issued in September 2010, will have an Annual Review BEFORE we have the appeal. So the AR will be the year 6 transfer review?

 

That looks even more like pants, because whatever this Appeal decides, the LA will still have the right in Feburary 2012 to appeal again!

 

So I am putting together a well worded letter to ask Send for a Direction as to whether this Appeal will include the Secondary transfer. It has taken over a year and we still haven't had an Appeal. The LA are not agreeing with any of our case, and they have already named the secondary placement [which I know they cannot do]. But it does prove that whatever happens as the outcome of this Appeal there is every likelihood that the LA will appeal again in February 2012. I have asked this Direction to be put before the same judge that carried out the Case Management Hearing as she sounded very sensible and knowledgeable. As it looks likely that any new date will not be until October at the earliest, the thought of having another Appeal in 4 months time is ridiculous and waste of mine and everyone else's time and money.

 

And IF this Appeal will include Secondary transfer, I need to postpone the hearing until I can get a suitable expert to visit the proposed LA school and attend as witness to comment on whether that placement is suitable. As sendist are booking Appeals 4 months in advance, it is obvious that those professionals will also be booked up some 4 months in advance.

 

Anyway, i'm waiting to get the go ahead to send this letter. And then fingers crossed. If they refuse Secondary transfer then I have to rely on getting the placement we want now, and hoping that any further Appeal by the LA will be seen by sendist as being vexatious.

Edited July 8, 2011 by Sally44

[Grace]

Sally, I hope you have not sent anything in yet?

 

We need to talk!

 

I am very tired and can't think 100%, but please pm me if you have not already sent it to SEND.

 

Best Wishes

 

Grace/x

Edited July 8, 2011 by Grace

[workingmum]

Hello Sally44 - mine got postponed as well - what hurts more is that i was on the phone to them yesterday and they said all okay except the venue - got an email from them this morning - cancelled - they have offered another date but lea to say that they can attend ? - thats another problem. The 1st date was an order from SENDIST to them, what will they do in this instance.

 

if LEA says cant attend - it will be late august/early sept hearing - my DC has no school place - YR 7 for september 2011 then? What a mess - i am wreck at the moment.

[Sally44]

Hello Sally44 - mine got postponed as well - what hurts more is that i was on the phone to them yesterday and they said all okay except the venue - got an email from them this morning - cancelled - they have offered another date but lea to say that they can attend ? - thats another problem. The 1st date was an order from SENDIST to them, what will they do in this instance.

 

if LEA says cant attend - it will be late august/early sept hearing - my DC has no school place - YR 7 for september 2011 then? What a mess - i am wreck at the moment.

 

 

I think I posted in one of your other topics telling you that that is what happened to me and telling you to phone Sendist to check you actually had a Judge assigned to your Appeal. It isn't cancelled because of the venue - if Sendist do not have a building available they always book a hotel conference room. So venue is NEVER the issue. It is because they have overbooked Appeals, expecting that 75% of them will withdraw, and they haven't. So now they do not have enough Panel members and Judges to take all these Appeals. If you incur any costs relating to this ie. cancellation fees etc, ask Sendist how you put in a claim for that. I too got less than 24 hours notice of the cancellation.

 

I would recommend that you phone Sendist and speak to the Listings Department. WHEN they re-schedule, ask them IF they will be using a salaried Judge (one paid to take a particular Appeal), or whether your Appeal will again not actually be scheduled, but will again be waiting for someone else to withdraw their Appeal before they can slot you in [remember that Sendist are setting Appeals dates 4-6 months in advance.]

 

I would put in a complaint because, as you say, this now involves your child not having a placement for the start of the next academic year.

 

Have you let Sendist know your available dates. Have you checked that with your attendees. Don't you have a solicitor sorting this for you??

 

I would recommend you find out what dates are okay for your side. And stress to Sendist that your attendees are independent professionals whose diary gets filled up 4 months in advance. The LA side can alter dates much easier, as they are mainly appointments to see children/parents in school. Those dates can be altered. Your attendees cannot change so easily because they will be booked as attendees for other Sendist Appeals.

[Sally44]

If the LA are being awkward you can send in a Request for Changes form asking for a Direction that Sendist set the Appeal date taking into account your available dates and send that as an attachment.

[workingmum]

well, sent a change of request form to tribunal that lea are stalling - lea have now suggested a special school- ours they say is too expensive. now wee have to visit. Any ideas of what to look for in special school - we do not want a special school, howver i guess we have to visit afterall and looks like the tribunal hearing will be in september - well when school opens where does he go in the interim

[caci]

Can you PM me the name of the special school ?

 

I think you are in the same area as us, and the special school may be the one our son had a place at.

[mousytrap]

Asked our IEP about this today. She's had one late cancellation last week and one this week for the same reasons. Luckily in one case the LA caved, but in the other there's an end-of-year-6 pupil sitting there with no school to go to in September.

 

Meanwhile I am starting to have doubts about we'll actually have ours in December or still be sitting waiting in February. Our son doesn't have a school for September either... They are discussing whether to choose him for an oversubscribed not-entirely-suitable special school, so at least they seem to be admitting he's got to come out of mainstream. A bit rich when the conversation is "if you get that school, will the tribunal still be happening?" though...

 

I fear we might get discriminated against...

 

mousy

[Sally44]

Asked our IEP about this today. She's had one late cancellation last week and one this week for the same reasons. Luckily in one case the LA caved, but in the other there's an end-of-year-6 pupil sitting there with no school to go to in September.

 

Meanwhile I am starting to have doubts about we'll actually have ours in December or still be sitting waiting in February. Our son doesn't have a school for September either... They are discussing whether to choose him for an oversubscribed not-entirely-suitable special school, so at least they seem to be admitting he's got to come out of mainstream. A bit rich when the conversation is "if you get that school, will the tribunal still be happening?" though...

 

I fear we might get discriminated against...

 

mousy

 

Do you have a date set for the Tribunal in December?

 

You can phone Sendist, quote your case number, and ask them if your Appeal is actually scheduled, or whether they are waiting for a cancellation to fit you in. IF they are waiting for a cancellation, you could ask them about using a salaried Judge and see what they say.

 

Regarding your witnesses (by that I mean your independent Educational Psychologist), and any other independent witnesses you have. You need to make sure that they are available for your Appeal date. IF your December date gets cancelled (and hopefully if you check the current status now that might not happen), the best thing to do is get all the dates from your attendees for the next couple of months and send them to Sendist.

 

Regarding the placement. The LA can name any school they want as one that they feel could meet your son's needs. Your case is to argue that your preferred placement is the ONLY one that can meet his needs. If the LA change their named placement, then you need to visit that school and get some detailed answers to questions about the provision and expertise within that school. If you do have an independent EP, they should be able to advice you on whether they need to visit the school, and they should be able to give you the type of questions you need to ask of that school and put them in writing.

 

As you say, if the LA suggest an oversubscribed special school (but not ASD specific, or not specific to your sons needs), that is evidence that they are admitting that he is not suitable for mainstream. You don't have to agree to the LAs choice though if it is still not suitable. Just use the fact that the LA have suggested it as evidence he needs a special school and highlight the differences between the two schools to show that your choice can meet his needs, and the LA choice cannot.

 

Yes the current situation is very worrying. I have myself written in saying that the Sendist system is supposed to protect the most vulnerable children, and now that system is in itself letting them down. I have no idea WHY suddenly all Appeals are going to Tribunal. But Sendist are definately not coping.

 

I am awaiting Sendist to fix the date because the LA and I cannot find a mutually convenient date. I have put in my strongest case for it to be set on the dates my attendees are available. If they set it on a date they are not available, I will have to deal with that as and when it happens. The biggest flaw so far is that they keep asking us to find convenient dates within the next month. Obviously everyone fills their diaries months in advance and trying to find a date that is convenient for 10+ people is not proving easy. However, we would not be in this situation IF Sendist hadn't cancelled twice.

Edited July 21, 2011 by Sally44

[mousytrap]

Do you have a date set for the Tribunal in December?

 

We do... for what it's worth...

 

You can phone Sendist, quote your case number, and ask them if your Appeal is actually scheduled, or whether they are waiting for a cancellation to fit you in. IF they are waiting for a cancellation, you could ask them about using a salaried Judge and see what they say.

 

Isn't it a little early for that? I thought the person from the tribunal service I had on the phone one time said they scheduled about 3 weeks beforehand... I wonder how far beforehand they used to do this before they got stretched though.

 

Regarding your witnesses (by that I mean your independent Educational Psychologist), and any other independent witnesses you have. You need to make sure that they are available for your Appeal date. IF your December date gets cancelled (and hopefully if you check the current status now that might not happen), the best thing to do is get all the dates from your attendees for the next couple of months and send them to Sendist.

 

EP definitely is. Legal advocate knows the date and hasn't said she isn't (she's still off reading the huge file I sent). As for the school in question, they haven't got the report from the EP yet. That's in the final stages.

 

Regarding the placement. The LA can name any school they want as one that they feel could meet your son's needs. Your case is to argue that your preferred placement is the ONLY one that can meet his needs. If the LA change their named placement, then you need to visit that school and get some detailed answers to questions about the provision and expertise within that school. If you do have an independent EP, they should be able to advice you on whether they need to visit the school, and they should be able to give you the type of questions you need to ask of that school and put them in writing.

 

We had wind of this as being one of very few options quite some time ago so we have visited already. The EP has also been there this week (rather conveniently about someone else primarily)

 

As you say, if the LA suggest an oversubscribed special school (but not ASD specific, or not specific to your sons needs), that is evidence that they are admitting that he is not suitable for mainstream. You don't have to agree to the LAs choice though if it is still not suitable. Just use the fact that the LA have suggested it as evidence he needs a special school and highlight the differences between the two schools to show that your choice can meet his needs, and the LA choice cannot.

 

It's a dreaded EBD

 

Yes the current situation is very worrying. I have myself written in saying that the Sendist system is supposed to protect the most vulnerable children, and now that system is in itself letting them down. I have no idea WHY suddenly all Appeals are going to Tribunal. But Sendist are definately not coping.

 

It must surely be that the LA's aren't caving...

 

Obviously everyone fills their diaries months in advance and trying to find a date that is convenient for 10+ people is not proving easy.

 

I imagine not...

 

mousy