ooooohhhh... a new series of...

[darkshine]

Yes, that's what I meant about mum having the final word about filming/consent - she did seem equally culpable, and the programme did intimate this, but you had to watch very closely

I just assumed the extra long camera shots looking at her face looking sad or whatever she was looking meant they were pointing out her involvement

 

 

Oh yes - I'd forgot that bit, but it was another reason for me going a bit ! I hope anyone who warehouses their kid's with her during the day asked themselves the same question after seeing the show, and whether the 'very reasonable rates' I'm sure she charges over a more traditional nursery/daycare environment might actually be a false economy

Innit

 

 

I'll put my hands up and say I had a few crossed swords with a CAMHS behavioural management specialist over this, so it's an easy trap to fall into where you think you're doing everything but can actually be doing all sorts of things that make the situation worse. 'Negative reinforcers' Luckily, the penny dropped for me when Ben was around 3.5, when a BM programme called '1,2,3, Magic' hit me with a very simple piece of logic I couldn't deny: Children can't 'reason' like adults, so trying to reason/negotiate with them as though they were adults only creates bigger problems. When they've learnt the difference between 'No' and 'Yes' and respond appropriately you have the first stepping stones towards reason, and you can begin to negotiate, give them more self responsibility etc etc, but giving the latter before the former is established will only cause collisions. In most cases the hardest thing is getting the parent to admit they're wrong, and overcoming the knee jerk 'you're calling me a bad parent', 'every child is different', 'I'm autistic what's your excuse' defence mechanisms that kick in when they're confronted with it...

 

J F is very good at negotiating those defence mechanisms, but quite often professional's actually make the situation worse by offering the parents negative reinforcers of their own... they come out of the CAMHS meeting thinking they've just been told they're the bees knees, having stopped listening after the 'but', and are thereafter even more adamant that they've 'tried everything' and quote the consultant who's only ever heard anecdotal evidence from them regarding how they parent as evidence of this.

Erm.. to continue about dogs again sorry but its really the closest scenario I've dealt with (at least on a regular and daily basis)

 

My dog was someone else's before I had him, and he was a total nightmare for that owner, and then me, this dog was screwed up, wouldn't let you touch him, was upset, behaviourally aggressive and scared, he messed in the house, chewed everything, scratched me, wouldn't walk, or socialise with anything, wouldn't ever raise his head and look at the world or people. (he did all this before I had him too but the previous owner didn't admit it until much later).

 

After less than a week of this I rang a dog shrink person "my dogs a nightmare, I've tried everything" I moaned (yeah right) I'd barely tried anything other than saying no over and over and the previous owner had already made that word meaningless.

 

Anyway, after a hell of a lot of of hard work I now have a kooky yet happy and functional, well behaved dog (most of the time) that plays and looks at me, he respects the house, can do sit, up, down, both from verbal instructions and sign language, he doesn't steal food, and the main issue I never fully solved is the walking (its better but not sorted). All of this was done by teaching me how to teach him, and it was all done without the aid of treats (as he wouldn't eat them). He's very playful and has a look of ecstasy when I stroke his head, he stares at me a lot and tries to get me to do things and is a quirky and funny little dog that everyone comments on his tail that only stops wagging when he goes and sits in his bed (cuz he sits on it).

 

So although dogs are not kids, the principal of looking at what you are doing is similar, I had to admit to the dog shrink everything, drop my defensiveness, and learn.

 

I think that it must be harder for parents to do this cuz they might feel like people are criticising them or having a go at them.

 

 

Don't hold your breath! Though even then I'm sure there will be some lovely, happy kids at the end whose lives have been enhanced, and that's the bit worth watching!

 

L&P

 

BD

I won't but yeah, any kid whose life is improved as a result of these programs is very very good, and it is nice seeing that the kids are happier as a result.

 

Best

 

Darkshine

[darkshine]

Well I just don't know what to say - and decided to take the minimal effort to say that here

 

I thought a lot of things about tonight's show but it would sound boring I think - which is why I don't know what to say - good seeing everyone less stressed at end though

[darkshine]

Episode 4 for those who missed it....

 

JF - EPG

 

With the joys of face scarring and packing kids off to india for playin up when ignored a lot... hmmm... happy viewing

 

Should have said "threatening" to pack em off to india

Edited July 31, 2011 by darkshine

[baddad]

See... that's the problem in a nutshell, people not following through on their sanctions. If you threaten to pack a child off to India for not eating his vegetables then if he doesn't eat his vegetables he should be packed off to India!

 

I saw Andi Osho doing a 'bit' on telly where she was talking about Nigerian parenting and absurd threats... she told her mum 'I don't want to live with you anymore' or something while sulking on the bus and her mum screamed; 'right, well when we get home I will murder you. And then I will go to prison. And you will be dead and i'll be locked up and you won't ever have to live with me again. There - are you happy now?' She said the maddest thing wasn't her mother's rant, but the fact that all the other Nigerian mums on the bus were nodding their heads in agreement

 

Not much to say on the rest of the show, it was all pretty much 'as per'... That said, as an obseravtion...

 

As anyone who reads my posts will know I'm totally 'anti' casual diagnosis, but I do enjoy a bit of 'trait spotting' too. Did you notice the girl with the short blonde hair at the roadshow? The one with the phobia of popping balloons? If you look on darshine's link it's the first segment in the fourth quarter (about 39 mins in). I love that she remembers so precisely the root of her phobia!

[Mumble]

See... that's the problem in a nutshell, people not following through on their sanctions. If you threaten to pack a child off to India for not eating his vegetables then if he doesn't eat his vegetables he should be packed off to India!

This annoys me so much. Lost count of the number of times I've heard parents sreatching as a misbehaving kiddy in the supermarket that if they don't pack it in they won't be doing any more shopping and will be going straight home. And they don't get why kiddy carries on... D'Oh.

 

As anyone who reads my posts will know I'm totally 'anti' casual diagnosis, but I do enjoy a bit of 'trait spotting' too. Did you notice the girl with the short blonde hair at the roadshow? The one with the phobia of popping balloons? If you look on darshine's link it's the first segment in the fourth quarter (about 39 mins in). I love that she remembers so precisely the root of her phobia!

It was a girl?? I though 'she' was a boy? But yes, I did the train-spotting too, though I began to have doubts because it seemed too rehearsed with the 'I know where my phobia came from' thing, almost as if the parents had read the fish 'n' chip psychology book and then rattled it off to the kid who had taken it all in and was now enacting it.

[baddad]

This annoys me so much. Lost count of the number of times I've heard parents sreatching as a misbehaving kiddy in the supermarket that if they don't pack it in they won't be doing any more shopping and will be going straight home. And they don't get why kiddy carries on... D'Oh.

 

Yerse... and the next line is usually 'and you'll be going straight to your bedroom', which the kid knows actually means 'and you'll be going straight back on your x-box'...

 

It was a girl?? I though 'she' was a boy? But yes, I did the train-spotting too, though I began to have doubts because it seemed too rehearsed with the 'I know where my phobia came from' thing, almost as if the parents had read the fish 'n' chip psychology book and then rattled it off to the kid who had taken it all in and was now enacting it.

 

Yes, she is a girl. I think it was possibly her haircut/outfit that threw you. I thought the 'kerchief very 'Temple Grandin' Not sure about the fish n chip shop psychology book, but it was more the way she said it than what she said, iyswim. I think that for the sake of 'just in case' it's worth pointing out that we are not in any way 'taking the mick' out of this girl (at least I know I'm not and feel pretty sure you're not!) or attempting to 'home diagnose' her... there's a world of difference between 'trait spotting' (or seeing elements of behaviour that are often associated with autism among people generally) and 'casual diagnosis', and a world of difference in enjoying and being amused by someone who is speaking enthusiastically with expressive mannerisms and 'taking the mick'.

 

L&P

 

BD

Edited July 31, 2011 by baddad

[darkshine]

It was a girl?? I though 'she' was a boy? But yes, I did the train-spotting too, though I began to have doubts because it seemed too rehearsed with the 'I know where my phobia came from' thing, almost as if the parents had read the fish 'n' chip psychology book and then rattled it off to the kid who had taken it all in and was now enacting it.

definitely a girl very 70's school style I thought (there's pics of me siblings looking similar when they were young)

 

I assumed her way of talking were to do with being brought up on the better side of the tracks (so to say) she was very matter of fact about it all though. I don't think it was rehearsed - just her way of speaking

[Karen A]

I have not read this thread at all.

However posted elswehere,read the header for this and realised it is more relevant here.

 

http://jofrost.com/jo-frost

 

Although supprenany makes some valid points it does concern me that she is offering advice to parents whilst apparently having no qualifications herself.I prefer to follow the advice of professionals who are actually qualified.

She is a millionare on the back of her media empire which often involves offering advice to parents on what appear to me to be complex issues .Her web site has the most significant focus on her media activities and she describes her own work as ''reality TV''.

 

 

In her latest programme her assessments take place in shopping centres and are then filmed for TV.

I would rather people are offered a holistic assessment carried out by qualified and experienced professionals myself.

Her web site offers plenty of her information about publications.media activities and TV appearances but I see that the techniques section is coming soon.

 

Jo apparently has a natural gift for conecting with children organicaly.Oh that I had that gift.Perhaps I wouldn't have needed help then.

 

There would be no risk of Jo Frost offering informal diagnosis because she is a nanny who is not qualified to diagnose anything.

 

Karen

[Karen A]

http://www.professortanyabyron.com/

 

Interesting contrast with Dr Tanya Byron who emphasises her qualifications.

I don't always agree with everything she says but at least she demonstrates an understanding of very complex issues.

Edited August 1, 2011 by Karen A

[bid]

I have not read this thread at all.

However posted elswehere,read the header for this and realised it is more relevant here.

 

http://jofrost.com/jo-frost

 

Although supprenany makes some valid points it does concern me that she is offering advice to parents whilst apparently having no qualifications herself.I prefer to follow the advice of professionals who are actually qualified.

She is a millionare on the back of her media empire which often involves offering advice to parents on what appear to me to be complex issues .Her web site has the most significant focus on her media activities and she describes her own work as ''reality TV''.

 

 

In her latest programme her assessments take place in shopping centres and are then filmed for TV.

I would rather people are offered a holistic assessment carried out by qualified and experienced professionals myself.

Her web site offers plenty of her information about publications.media activities and TV appearances but I see that the techniques section is coming soon.

 

Jo apparently has a natural gift for conecting with children organicaly.Oh that I had that gift.Perhaps I wouldn't have needed help then.

 

There would be no risk of Jo Frost offering informal diagnosis because she is a nanny who is not qualified to diagnose anything.

 

Karen

 

Very interesting points, Karen.

 

I also read a recent article in which she says she doesn't have time for a relationship, so not only does she have no children, she has never had to balance maintaining a marriage/partnership at the same time. I think this aspect of parenting is often under-estimated or even forgotten. My very wise Special Needs Health Visitor once said to me that there were (at that time) 5 people in my family, who were all entitled to equal attention, care and time. I also think that aspect, of maintaining the adult relationship, is rarely addressed within families with SN children, although in actuality it is hugely important and very vulnerable.

 

I'm interested in her use of the term 'reality TV' for her programmes. While she may well be well-intentioned, and I agree with much of what she says, it's important to remember that first and foremost she is providing entertainment, and getting very, very well-paid for it!

 

Bid

Edited August 1, 2011 by bid

[baddad]

Hmmm...

 

Dunno how well or badly qualified she is - the article only says after college she embarked on a career in nannying and has been involved in childcare for over twenty years. TBH I think it's irrelevant, as is the question of whether she has kids herself or not. I've known plenty of highly qualified psychologists and therapists etc who are absolute arses (including some cats, dogs and goldfish) http://www.dreichel.com/dr_zoe.htm, and similarly many people with kids who haven't got a clue how to parent them (watch a Jo Frost programme and you'll see them too!). On the other hand, some childless aunts and uncles are absolutely amazing with kids, achieving things with them that the parents seem incapable of achieving.

 

To me it seems more sensible to take advice that works and can be seen to work and benefits the child from whatever source it is delivered, and to reject that which doesn't regardless of the source.

 

I don't know much (well anything, really) about (the very well paid broadcaster) Tanya Byron (whose books are published by the BBC) other than the quick blurb I just read on her website, but there's no reason why she couldn't be just as 'good' as Jo in offering good, common sense advice that achieves what it sets out to achieve or why any other woman, mum, man, father couldn't whether qualified or not, is there? But if she's one of those numpties who suggests letting your child use you as a punchbag, giving into their every whim and listening to them whinge for endless hour after self-indulgent hour lest you dent their fragile self-esteem then she's not the nanny for me! Cos the problem is, that gives you these hugely confident, arrogant controlling kids who can only exist in the vaccuum that's been created for them at home, and as soon as they are exposed to the real world the whole facade crumbles and they come face to face with some real self-esteem issues (or alternatively, just push their way through life picking their victioms wisely from the models of victimhood that their vaccuum homes provided them with while circumnavigating everyone else with fake charm or an assumed victim stance of their own).

 

I'm not sure, Karen, why you think Jo Frost doesn't 'demonstrate an understanding of very complex issues'? (or come to that, if you think Tanya Byron does, and does so well, why you, a parent openly admitting that you don't have the gift for naturally connecting with your child, 'don't always agree with her'? ). I think Jo frost is very good at seeing things how they are very quickly, and putting in strategies that put them right very quickly. Read through the thread again for some examples that have been put forward from the episodes so far...

 

To be honest, both of the points raised here (Jo's 20 years experience and possible lack of diplomas vs Tanya's qualifications, and the no kids (does Tanya have kids, btw? Not that it makes a difference IMO but if it seems relevant to others(?) )) seem another variation on the 'reductive' denial and gainsaying argument discussed here:

 

http://www.asd-forum.org.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/27031-interesting-sounding-programme-starting-on-itv/page__view__findpost__p__310907

 

 

Anyhoo... I'm not applying for the job of Jo Frost's PA and TBH she doesn't really seem to need one, the childless, unqualified, multi-millionaieress, spinster...

 

 

L*P

 

BD

[Karen A]

Very interesting points, Karen.

 

I also read a recent article in which she says she doesn't have time for a relationship, so not only does she have no children, she has never had to balance maintaining a marriage/partnership at the same time. I think this aspect of parenting is often under-estimated or even forgotten. My very wise Special Needs Health Visitor once said to me that there were (at that time) 5 people in my family, who were all entitled to equal attention, care and time. I also think that aspect, of maintaining the adult relationship is rarely adressed within families with SN children, although in actuality it is hugely important and very vulnerable.

 

I'm interested in her use of the term 'reality TV' for her programmes. While she may well be well-intentioned, and I agree with much of what she says, it's important to remember that first and foremost she is providing entertainment, and getting very, very well-paid for it!

 

Bid

 

 

Off topic I know but it is off topic.

I currently have an indivual living on my property that I would best describe as a rat.

He moved in without consulting me.

He takes things that do not belong to him.

He treats me with nothing less than contempt ,watching me from the distance and running circles round me.

All efforts to control him have failed.

He leaves his waste products everywhere.

He regards my efforts to control him as enrichment activities.

My neighbours are not best pleased.

They have advised me to enlist professional help to get this issue under control because it is now impacting them.

I am at my wits end and my husband is worse than useless.He just shuts the curtains and says he does not want the issue even mentioned.

I phoned the experts on Friday.

They were very sypathetic and promise they will visit to provide professional input.

 

However having read Joe's web page I now realise I don't need pofessional help but rather an individual who has an organic long standing relationship with this particular species.

 

Ideas anyone.

I have a few ideas.I have to say most of them currently involve people who like to describe themselves as media figures.

 

Just for the record I have learned one thing from both Tanya Byron and supernanny although it has been a hard lesson to learn.

 

If a behaviour is undesirable then don't give the child attention because it only encourages the undesirable behavour.

Edited August 1, 2011 by Karen A

[bid]

Hmmm...

 

Dunno how well or badly qualified she is - the article only says after college she embarked on a career in nannying and has been involved in childcare for over twenty years. TBH I think it's irrelevant, as is the question of whether she has kids herself or not. I've known plenty of highly qualified psychologists and therapists etc who are absolute arses (including some cats, dogs and goldfish) http://www.dreichel.com/dr_zoe.htm, and similarly many people with kids who haven't got a clue how to parent them (watch a Jo Frost programme and you'll see them too!). On the other hand, some childless aunts and uncles are absolutely amazing with kids, achieving things with them that the parents seem incapable of achieving.

 

To me it seems more sensible to take advice that works and can be seen to work and benefits the child from whatever source it is delivered, and to reject that which doesn't regardless of the source.

 

I don't know much (well anything, really) about (the very well paid broadcaster) Tanya Byron (whose books are published by the BBC) other than the quick blurb I just read on her website, but there's no reason why she couldn't be just as 'good' as Jo in offering good, common sense advice that achieves what it sets out to achieve or why any other woman, mum, man, father couldn't whether qualified or not, is there? But if she's one of those numpties who suggests letting your child use you as a punchbag, giving into their every whim and listening to them whinge for endless hour after self-indulgent hour lest you dent their fragile self-esteem then she's not the nanny for me! Cos the problem is, that gives you these hugely confident, arrogant controlling kids who can only exist in the vaccuum that's been created for them at home, and as soon as they are exposed to the real world the whole facade crumbles and they come face to face with some real self-esteem issues (or alternatively, just push their way through life picking their victioms wisely from the models of victimhood that their vaccuum homes provided them with while circumnavigating everyone else with fake charm or an assumed victim stance of their own).

 

I'm not sure, Karen, why you think Jo Frost doesn't 'demonstrate an understanding of very complex issues'? (or come to that, if you think Tanya Byron does, and does so well, why you, a parent openly admitting that you don't have the gift for naturally connecting with your child, 'don't always agree with her'? ). I think Jo frost is very good at seeing things how they are very quickly, and putting in strategies that put them right very quickly. Read through the thread again for some examples that have been put forward from the episodes so far...

 

To be honest, both of the points raised here (Jo's 20 years experience and possible lack of diplomas vs Tanya's qualifications, and the no kids (does Tanya have kids, btw? Not that it makes a difference IMO but if it seems relevant to others(?) )) seem another variation on the 'reductive' denial and gainsaying argument discussed here:

 

http://www.asd-forum.org.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/27031-interesting-sounding-programme-starting-on-itv/page__view__findpost__p__310907

 

 

Anyhoo... I'm not applying for the job of Jo Frost's PA and TBH she doesn't really seem to need one, the childless, unqualified, multi-millionaieress, spinster...

 

 

L*P

 

BD

 

 

But to be fair, BD, you have posted very critically, many times on here about people in the autism world who you feel have set themselves up as experts and enjoy the resultant commercial/media benefits (I think you have included Tony Attwood, but apologies if I'm wrong).

 

The only difference between Jo Frost and any of the people you criticise is the fact that you agree with Jo!

 

Bid

Edited August 1, 2011 by bid

[baddad]

 

If a behaviour is undesirable then don't give the child attention because it only encourages the undesirable behavour.

 

So you'll be practicing that on your 'rat' then?

 

And will that be the 'ignoring it' kind of not giving attention (AKA 'Anything for a quiet life') or the 'no negative reinforcer' type of intervention that effectively deals with the behaviour but doesn't reward it? Jo's very big on the latter, but the former gets a big thumbs down

 

L&P

 

BD

[baddad]

 

 

But to be fair, BD, you have posted very critically, many times on here about people in the autism world who you feel have set themselves up as experts and enjoy the resultant commercial/media benefits (I think you have included Tony Attwood, but apologies if I'm wrong).

 

The only difference between Jo Frost and any of the people you criticise is the fact that you agree with Jo!

 

Bid

 

 

And the point is? I've already answered this with the 'good advice/ bad advice' thing... of course my subjective view of what's 'good advice/bad advice' is going to impact on how I respond to the advisor, professional or otherwise, just as it does for you (or anyone else)... I don't know if you're implying some sort of hypocrisy, but if so the words pot and kettle come to mind! I am, if anything annoyingly consistent in my views rather than changing my opinion every time the wind changes direction.

 

Tony Attwood does offer some very good advice. He also offers some cr*p (IMO) advice. So far, I haven't seen any programmes where J F offers what is IMO bad advice, but if I do I'll be equally vocal about that!

 

You've posted several times now to say why JF isn't qualified to give advice (spinster, no kids, no training that we know of, 'celebrity entertainer' etc) but also that you largely agree with her. So what do you think she gets 'wrong', and is that because of her spinsterism, lack of kids, (assumed) lack of training, celebrity status etc, or do you think she's just 'wrong' and would be so even if she was married with three kids, a host of degrees, and was working for CAMHS or whatever?

 

L&P

 

BD

[Mumble]

So you'll be practicing that on your 'rat' then?

Is it a real rat, or are you using 'rat' to mean a person? If it's a real rat you have to call pest control at the local council and they come round and kill them.

 

In terms of qualification/experience, then surely it's totally individual? It depends on the person, their role and how they're 'selling' themselves. I would trust a hair-dresser who had 20 years learning on the job more than one just out of college with a string of qualifications who had only cut the hair on plastic dummies (dunno if that's actually how it works, but hopefully my point's clear... ). Jo Frost always qualifies what she's doing by referring to her 20 years nannying/etc. - she doesn't try to be someone she isn't.

[bid]

And the point is? I've already answered this with the 'good advice/ bad advice' thing... of course my subjective view of what's 'good advice/bad advice' is going to impact on how I respond to the advisor, professional or otherwise, just as it does for you (or anyone else)... I don't know if you're implying some sort of hypocrisy, but if so the words pot and kettle come to mind! I am, if anything annoyingly consistent in my views rather than changing my opinion every time the wind changes direction.

 

Tony Attwood does offer some very good advice. He also offers some cr*p (IMO) advice. So far, I haven't seen any programmes where J F offers what is IMO bad advice, but if I do I'll be equally vocal about that!

 

You've posted several times now to say why JF isn't qualified to give advice (spinster, no kids, no training that we know of, 'celebrity entertainer' etc) but also that you largely agree with her. So what do you think she gets 'wrong', and is that because of her spinsterism, lack of kids, (assumed) lack of training, celebrity status etc, or do you think she's just 'wrong' and would be so even if she was married with three kids, a host of degrees, and was working for CAMHS or whatever?

 

L&P

 

BD

 

Just makes me chuckle, is all

 

Bid

Edited August 1, 2011 by bid

[Karen A]

Is it a real rat, or are you using 'rat' to mean a person? If it's a real rat you have to call pest control at the local council and they come round and kill them.

 

In terms of qualification/experience, then surely it's totally individual? It depends on the person, their role and how they're 'selling' themselves. I would trust a hair-dresser who had 20 years learning on the job more than one just out of college with a string of qualifications who had only cut the hair on plastic dummies (dunno if that's actually how it works, but hopefully my point's clear... ). Jo Frost always qualifies what she's doing by referring to her 20 years nannying/etc. - she doesn't try to be someone she isn't.

 

Sorry Mumble.

I did not want to post in detail because I know the effect it has on my husband just mentioning it.

Yes it is real and yes it is driving me round the bend and yes pest control are coming.

It has moved into my garden and thinks it is a bird or a squirrel.

No I will not be ignoring it because this strategy does not work with rats.

 

Unfortunately I am not an expert on this issue.

My parents never came across it,I don't have any training,my friends all just cringe when I tell them,my husband can't cope with it and all of the strategies I have tried have failed.

 

I will have to find a Forum devoted to the issue.But then again I will probably be told I encouraged the rat,should have dealt with the issue earlier,should have known what a rat looks like or should know better than to live in an area where there are so many rats.I should obviously know about the strategy that works for all rats and use it consistently.

 

 

 

It is off topic but then this thread is in off topic.

 

 

 

 

Karen.

Edited August 1, 2011 by Karen A

[baddad]

No I will not be ignoring it because this strategy does not work with rats.

Karen.

 

Oh, it does. Ignore the behaviour and leave the reinforcer in place and the rat will continue to enact the behaviour. Ignore the behaviour and remove the reinforcer - or better yet introduce a deterrent (sanction) that is meaningful to the rat - and he will stop enacting the behaviour.

 

A cat might be a good deterrent, or a Jack Russell, or poison, or a trap.

 

L&P

 

BD

Edited August 1, 2011 by baddad

[Karen A]

Oh, it does. Ignore the behaviour and leave the reinforcer in place and the rat will continue to enact the behaviour. Ignore the behaviour and remove the reinforcer - or better yet introduce a deterrent (sanction) that is meaningful to the rat - and he will stop enacting the behaviour.

 

A cat might be a good deterrent, or a Jack Russell, or poison, or a trap.

 

L&P

 

BD

 

The trap is the reinforcer.He thinks its a personal snack bar.

Next door tell me the dog will run the other way.

Pest Control will probably put down poison.

This is because I was willing to ask for help from qualified professionals that know more about rat behaviour than just having an organic affinity with them.Fortunately I can obtain help for this problem without my personal attempts inadequate and entertaining as they are being filmed on TV and ridiculed and used for entertainment.

Edited August 1, 2011 by Karen A

[baddad]

The trap is the reinforcer.He thinks its a personal snack bar.

Next door tell me the dog will run the other way.

Pest Control will probably put down poison.

This is because I was willing to ask for help from qualified professionals that know more about rat behaviour than just having an organic affinity with them.Fortunately I can obtain help for this problem without my personal attempts inadequate and entertaining as they are being filmed on TV and ridiculed and used for entertainment.

 

 

So you'll (probably) put down poison at the suggestion of the qualified professionals? Dunno how much they're charging, but my very similar advice was free! . I've not seen the episode where Jo ridicules the parents (assuming that section of your post is on topic). Is it on catch up? Usually she just solves their problems with some good ol' common sense solutions and leaves them happier, wiser and - more importantly - with children who are happier too! Now that's what I call value for money and entertainment too!

 

That said, you should send your idea for a sort of X FACTOR/SUPERNANNY hybrid to Simon **** whoops, typo, Cowell 'cos it'd probably have legs. You could get Rant and Spec to host it, and have 'bush-tucker trials' for the broccolli dodgers where they had to eat a bucket of mealworms or a kangeroo's willy to get access to their X-Boxes... A tier of 'naughty steps', that went higher and higher for each transgression and a 'trapdoor question' at the top... the bedtime dash - last parent to successfully get their kid to sleep gets gunged with melatonin!

 

ooooohhh the possibilities are endless....

 

L&P

 

BD

[Mumble]

The trap is the reinforcer.He thinks its a personal snack bar.

Next door tell me the dog will run the other way.

Are you quite sure it's a rat you've got yourself there? It could be a Huffelump. My neighbour had a rat in my old old house. He used a cricket bat. No more Mr Rat.

[bid]

I've not seen the episode where Jo ridicules the parents (assuming that section of your post is on topic). Is it on catch up? Usually she just solves their problems with some good ol' common sense solutions and leaves them happier, wiser and - more importantly - with children who are happier too! Now that's what I call value for money and entertainment too!

 

 

But if you think about it, the whole underlying premise of reality TV is to about ridicule and appealing to our voyeuristic tendencies!

 

This isn't families with problems being helped in private. This is families with problems as public entertainment.

 

And re-read the kinds of comments that get made about the parents in similar threads on here (I'm also thinking about the one on the autistic kids taking part in a musical) or anywhere else online, and in front rooms all over the country...there's a fair amount of ridicule and some downright nasty comments.

 

So, to be honest, the more I think about Super Nanny, within it's place in the whole range of 'help' reality TV, like 'Embarassing Bodies', 'Teen Mums', etc, etc, there's a whole lot of ridicule, voyeurism and 'good TV' dressed up as positive help.

 

And before you call me a 'pot', I admit that I'm just as guilty as the rest of the country of taking part in what is actually rather unedifying, judgemental voyeurism (especially 'Embarassing Bodies'!! ).

 

Bid

Edited August 1, 2011 by bid

[Karen A]

]

Fortunately I can obtain help for this problem without my personal attempts inadequate and entertaining as they are being filmed on TV and ridiculed and used for entertainment.

 

I am not talking about Jo ridiculing anyone.

Jo evidently has a very limited role in the filming of a programme that is put out for entertainment.

Anyone wanting evidence of the way in which this leads to people being ridiculed need not look very far.

 

Jo Frost extreme parenting!

 

A 6 year old who beats the cr*p out of his mum every bedtime...

A 2yr old Sweary Mary...

A bad loser...

and kids who kick off when out in public!

 

And that's only the first fifteen minute section!!

 

Oh JOY!

 

[]

Edited August 1, 2011 by Karen A

[Karen A]

Are you quite sure it's a rat you've got yourself there? It could be a Huffelump. My neighbour had a rat in my old old house. He used a cricket bat. No more Mr Rat.

 

 

I read that farmers use shot guns.It is probably easy enough to get hold of one of those on my estate.

[Mumble]

I read that farmers use shot guns.It is probably easy enough to get hold of one of those on my estate.

If not, you can pop round to mine...

[baddad]

]

 

I am not talking about Jo ridiculing anyone.

Jo evidently has a very limited role in the filming of a programme that is put out for entertainment.

Anyone wanting evidence of the way in which this leads to people being ridiculed need not look very far.

 

 

 

[]

 

Fair enough karen... just didn't realise it was a personal shot (well not THAT personal, anyway - onviously I knew there was 'personal shottage' in the mix generally! ). I was being 'flippant' rather than ridiculing, but take it any way you like... The point I have stressed throughout is that I like the show because it shows children (and parents) being helped to live happier, more empowered, more productive lives and to improve their relationships and communication. I really do think the fact that you see only 'ridicule' says far more about you (and anyone else arriving at the same conclusion) than it does me, but hey ho. Keep up the sterling work.

 

L&P

 

BD

[bid]

BD, I really, really hope your comment about 'general personal shottage' wasn't aimed at me too

 

It's actually perfectly OK for people to have different opinions ya know!

 

You think Jo Frost is the bees knees...that's absolutely fine. But other people are allowed to mull over the whole question of reality TV, or indeed say that they dislike her programmes intensely, and everything in between!

 

Now, no liptons or it'll be the Naughty Step for you!!

 

Bid

[baddad]

I totally agree it's perfectly fine for people to have different opinions. I just get confused when they keep changing

 

Why do you think the personal shottage comment might have been aimed at you too?

 

I think effective parenting is the bees knees. As I've said, JF appears to need no PA from me. ;)

 

Talking of Liptons - been in the park with son this arvo; he had Mango and I had Lemon Iced tea. How veray civilaised ;) ;)

 

Ooooh, I seem to be developing a tic Must be all the stress I'm under ;) I wonder if I'm autistic? ;)

 

 

L&P

 

BD

Edited August 1, 2011 by baddad

[bid]

Hehe BD, some people call it being reflective...thinking around an issue, refining and maybe even changing their views!!

 

Talking of the park...it's my ball an I'm takin' it home AN my dad is bigger'n yours AN AN AN you SMELL!!

 

Bid

 

P.S. That will be 10 guineas for a casual diagnosis, ta muchly!! ;)

Edited August 1, 2011 by bid

[baddad]

Hehe BD, some people call it being reflective...thinking around an issue, refining and maybe even changing their views!!

 

 

yeah, but it's when they keep changing I get confused Gives me tennis umpire's neck. And a tic And sometimes, like, there seems to be a pattern, you know? ;)

 

10 Guineas? No thanks - I'd rather self diagnose than pay that kind of money! You can get an 'App' you know. ;)

 

Ooooh, perhaps I'm seeing 'patterns' now. I'll put a tick in there then... and a tic ;) ;)

[darkshine]

Pest Control will probably put down poison.

This is because I was willing to ask for help from qualified professionals that know more about rat behaviour than just having an organic affinity with them.Fortunately I can obtain help for this problem without my personal attempts inadequate and entertaining as they are being filmed on TV and ridiculed and used for entertainment.

But do they have their own rats? Like JF doesn't have children - does it make the pest control guys any better if they have pests at home? Or do they just need hours and hours spent with rats to have something better than an organic affinity You could be filmed if you want to - there's loads of programs about rat killing might get it done quicker that way

[baddad]

But do they have their own rats? Like JF doesn't have children - does it make the pest control guys any better if they have pests at home? Or do they just need hours and hours spent with rats to have something better than an organic affinity You could be filmed if you want to - there's loads of programs about rat killing might get it done quicker that way

 

Many years ago when I was but a snip of a skoolboy we used to have a 'rat up a drainpipe' stall at out skool fete (a fete worse than death, BTW)... there was a length of plastic soil pipe about 3mtrs long, and a stuffed sock 'rat' would be dropped down it by a teacher on a step-ladder, and we would pay 2p a go or whatever it was to try and 'catch' it as it came out of the bottom by hitting it with a rounders bat and pinning it to the backboard. I was actually quite good at it (despite the home diagnosed dyspraxia ;)), and as I had no rats made from stuffed socks at home I guess i just must have had an organic and natural affinity with stuffed sock rats. You do make an interesting point, though: would you have more faith in a rat catcher who had never had a rat infestation of their own or one whose home was regularly rat infested? Or would you just be happy with the pig faced bloke from UB40 who sang 'there's a rat in me kitchen wot am I gonna do, there's a rat in me kitchen wot am i gonna do, I'm gonna fix that rat, that's wot I'm gonna do, I'm gonna fix that rat...' purely on the strength of his enthusiasm, confidence and commitment to seeing the job through?

 

Oh yeah... there's a rat in me kitchen................

[darkshine]

Many years ago when I was but a snip of a skoolboy we used to have a 'rat up a drainpipe' stall at out skool fete (a fete worse than death, BTW)... there was a length of plastic soil pipe about 3mtrs long, and a stuffed sock 'rat' would be dropped down it by a teacher on a step-ladder, and we would pay 2p a go or whatever it was to try and 'catch' it as it came out of the bottom by hitting it with a rounders bat and pinning it to the backboard. I was actually quite good at it (despite the home diagnosed dyspraxia ;)), and as I had no rats made from stuffed socks at home I guess i just must have had an organic and natural affinity with stuffed sock rats.

I've never heard of that game - how old are you? I suppose it's better than the old wooden spinning tops and a cup and ball hehe - but with such an affinity maybe you missed a career opportunity or two there - you could have been rat batter extraodinaire OR you could have been a "rat up a drainpipe" shark and stiffed unsuspecting folk out of cash

 

You do make an interesting point, though: would you have more faith in a rat catcher who had never had a rat infestation of their own or one whose home was regularly rat infested? Or would you just be happy with the pig faced bloke from UB40 who sang 'there's a rat in me kitchen wot am I gonna do, there's a rat in me kitchen wot am i gonna do, I'm gonna fix that rat, that's wot I'm gonna do, I'm gonna fix that rat...' purely on the strength of his enthusiasm, confidence and commitment to seeing the job through?

 

Oh yeah... there's a rat in me kitchen................

As far as I see it everyone can always argue these things - like marriage guidance counsellors who have never been married is another one I've heard a lot of - but there's a few very important points I reckon.

 

If someone is good at what they do that deserves at the least grudging respect regardless of their personal circumstances.

Sometimes someone removed from the emotional situations can be more objective and possibly more useful as a result.

If someone has a good record of results and a good track record - again worth a thought.

And to keep this short (fighting against my habitual habit of rambling on with lists) I'd say if someone is talking sense then it would be unwise to dismiss them on the basis of potentially irrelevant details as it could be a missed opportunity.

 

As for J.F in particular, I don't think it matters that she's single and doesn't have kids, she's been working with them so long that she's probably seen just about everything by now (so to speak) and that includes family set-ups and parents etc.

I think that experience is what matters and that can be gained whether the children in question are your own or not, after all, people adopt, but that doesn't mean they can't be parents or experience child rearing and all the joys that go with that.

 

Best

Darkshine - who now has "there's a rat in me kitchen" going on repeat in me 'ead

Edited August 1, 2011 by darkshine

[Karen A]

But do they have their own rats? Like JF doesn't have children - does it make the pest control guys any better if they have pests at home? Or do they just need hours and hours spent with rats to have something better than an organic affinity You could be filmed if you want to - there's loads of programs about rat killing might get it done quicker that way

 

I have to say I will consider anything.

Another day.Another lot of traps that are full proof and no doubt he will appear shortly unless he doesn't like the rain.

Oh yes back already.Climbing the vegetable cane to the top this morning.

I have to say he must be intelligent as he develops new strategies every day.

Pest control are coming this afternoon.

 

Karen.

Edited August 2, 2011 by Karen A

[Karen A]

Fair enough karen... just didn't realise it was a personal shot (well not THAT personal, anyway - onviously I knew there was 'personal shottage' in the mix generally! ). I was being 'flippant' rather than ridiculing, but take it any way you like... The point I have stressed throughout is that I like the show because it shows children (and parents) being helped to live happier, more empowered, more productive lives and to improve their relationships and communication. I really do think the fact that you see only 'ridicule' says far more about you (and anyone else arriving at the same conclusion) than it does me, but hey ho. Keep up the sterling work.

 

L&P

 

BD

 

How do you figure there is personal shottage in the mix ?

I posted the first post because I could not post a link to the thread as a whole.

If you need other examples.I will find some more links for you.

Karen.

[Mumble]

I've never heard of that game - how old are you?

I have, does that make me old too? We used to have it at our skool and village fetes - it was called 'Splat the Rat'. It's actually on the list of games at an event I'm going to this weekend - will have to have a go now. :lol:

[Karen A]

How do you figure there is personal shottage in the mix ?

I posted the first post because I could not post a link to the thread as a whole.

If you need other examples.I will find some more links for you.

Karen.

 

There are actually too many to pick one.

For a few examples 41,45,46 and 47.

 

 

 

 

This thread is posted in ''off topic'' it is not in general discussion or advice.

I have no need to comment further.

People can feel free to read the read and judge for themselves.

 

 

Karen.

Edited August 2, 2011 by Karen A

[bid]

I've never heard of that game - how old are you? I suppose it's better than the old wooden spinning tops and a cup and ball hehe - but with such an affinity maybe you missed a career opportunity or two there - you could have been rat batter extraodinaire OR you could have been a "rat up a drainpipe" shark and stiffed unsuspecting folk out of cash

 

 

As far as I see it everyone can always argue these things - like marriage guidance counsellors who have never been married is another one I've heard a lot of - but there's a few very important points I reckon.

 

If someone is good at what they do that deserves at the least grudging respect regardless of their personal circumstances.

Sometimes someone removed from the emotional situations can be more objective and possibly more useful as a result.

If someone has a good record of results and a good track record - again worth a thought.

And to keep this short (fighting against my habitual habit of rambling on with lists) I'd say if someone is talking sense then it would be unwise to dismiss them on the basis of potentially irrelevant details as it could be a missed opportunity.

 

As for J.F in particular, I don't think it matters that she's single and doesn't have kids, she's been working with them so long that she's probably seen just about everything by now (so to speak) and that includes family set-ups and parents etc.

I think that experience is what matters and that can be gained whether the children in question are your own or not, after all, people adopt, but that doesn't mean they can't be parents or experience child rearing and all the joys that go with that.

 

Best

Darkshine - who now has "there's a rat in me kitchen" going on repeat in me 'ead

 

Dunno, still the more I think about it, the more uncomfortable I feel with the idea of families with problems as public entertainment.

 

Each to their own, I guess...

 

Bid

[Karen A]

There are actually too many to pick one.

For a few examples 41,45,46 and 47.

 

 

 

 

This thread is posted in ''off topic'' it is not in general discussion or advice.

I have no need to comment further.

People can feel free to read the read and judge for themselves.

 

 

Karen.

 

See... that's the problem in a nutshell, people not following through on their sanctions. If you threaten to pack a child off to India for not eating his vegetables then if he doesn't eat his vegetables he should be packed off to India!

 

This annoys me so much. Lost count of the number of times I've heard parents sreatching as a misbehaving kiddy in the supermarket that if they don't pack it in they won't be doing any more shopping and will be going straight home. And they don't get why kiddy carries on... D'Oh.

 

 

Quote

 

As anyone who reads my posts will know I'm totally 'anti' casual diagnosis, but I do enjoy a bit of 'trait spotting' too. Did you notice the girl with the short blonde hair at the roadshow? The one with the phobia of popping balloons? If you look on darshine's link it's the first segment in the fourth quarter (about 39 mins in). I love that she remembers so precisely the root of her phobia!

 

 

It was a girl?? I though 'she' was a boy? But yes, I did the train-spotting too, though I began to have doubts because it seemed too rehearsed with the 'I know where my phobia came from' thing, almost as if the parents had read the fish 'n' chip psychology book and then rattled it off to the kid who had taken it all in and was now enacting it.

 

For anyone in any doubt.

We watched this programme, the individual in question may well be a vulnerable individual under the age of eighteen with mental health problems whos parents were not aware or chose not to be aware of the implications of the individual taking part in the programme.

I am sure the programme is available for anyone who wants to watch it. :

In effect the use of a vulnerable person under sixteen for entertainment.

The result is here in the thread.

Very edifying.

It may be in off topic but it is still on a Forum for people with ASD and their parents.

If this thread had been posted in the daily newspapers it would not surprise me.

After all they are the media.

Edited August 2, 2011 by Karen A