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Darkshine... I'm not going to put words in your mouth, but having read your post I wonder if you might be describing the very process I've often outlined that I find totally 'wrong' - i.e. a child who has to find their own way to the conclusion that they need boundaries, expectations and sanctions in order to know how to and effectively engage with the world, and then find their own way of realising those things? I do believe it happens, and is far from limited to autistic children. I mentioned it in an earlier post in this thread (I think), and I think it is hugely unfair when children manage that conceptual understanding on their own and then have that effort usurped by parents as confirmation of their own parenting skill. Of course, it doesn't necessarily mean that the child's 'take' on the process is entirely objective (it can be as subjective as the parents, and it goes without saying that even parents saying the right thing are often the last people their children will listen too!), but I think this does happen, happen's quite often, and is completely unfair when it does. :( .

Thank you for not putting words in my mouth :thumbs:

 

Before I say anything else I have to say this: I am finding this discussion very interesting but I am really really struggling to put into words what I am trying to say given the recent change in direction of conversation between everyone.

 

I meant that I feel the relationship would have been better under the circumstances described. :wallbash: You ever get the feeling that no matter how you try to say something it's gonna come out wrong?

 

I'll just quit while I'm behind for now - but no, I'm not describing the process you thought of as wrong earlier but I cannot define what I mean any better on this IYSWIM.....

 

I do want to btw I really do want to but I don't know how to answer :tearful:

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Don't sweat it! Sometimes you just have to let it come in it's own time - sort of the mental equiv to having a good poo! Putting it crudely, you could spend an hour straining and just come up with a fart that only hinted at the real problem! :lol:

 

L&P

 

BD

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Don't sweat it! Sometimes you just have to let it come in it's own time - sort of the mental equiv to having a good poo! Putting it crudely, you could spend an hour straining and just come up with a fart that only hinted at the real problem! :lol:

 

L&P

 

BD

Excellent now that's soooo helpful!!!

 

This is why I posted asking for tips on effective communication - times like these when I feel crippled by my stupid brain and what do I get? Mr blooming smart alec ;)

 

Actually its probably good advice...

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I know when I was a kid I really needed some of those things in place and they are simple things, that build relationships, respect, trust, communication, show everything isn't black and white, could have taught us all to listen to each other, have routines and structure and time together, make things like discipline fair and right instead of unfair and unright, to build understanding, stability, and also to have self-esteem, feel wanted and accepted, to have had a chance at building confidence instead of knocking it down etc etc

 

I really could go on longer and I see you are saying there is more than one way of looking at it and I am naive at times when it comes to the issues you have raised - but I do know one thing - everything I see that she does - it could have made my childhood better if my parents had seen that and thought about their parenting style.

Ok here goes - in hindsight after considering many aspects of my life that were entirely confusing and unclear, I consider that the types of advice offered in the programme/s under discussion that both me and my parents would have benefited from a lot of the techniques that have been part of the methods on the programme/s.

 

I am not saying that it was all my parents fault just as much as it wasn't mine - but there was a definite breakdown in communication that speaking for myself, I had neither the ability or the knowledge of how to rectify, there was a lot of things I didn't know how to rectify ranging from issues, my behaviour, communication, confidence etc (pretty much previous list).

 

I believe that on some part it was my parents responsibility to assist me in those things. Instead I had to deal with things beyond my years because I was good at listening, got screamed and shouted, slapped hit and thumped, called names throughout teen years, teased and insulted when I struggled to communicate, ignored and on and on and on...

 

But whether this is in agreement with you or not, by the time I was 14 I felt like an unwanted, unloved, accident, I felt like I wasn't ever good enough, and I don't think that's right.

 

I see it as a two-way thing - if I'd have been assisted in developing the skills relating to my quote then it would have enabled me to do them easier, as it is I learned a lot of 'em anyway but it took years and years to work it out and even then there are some 6 year old with a better grasp at these things than I have.

 

About 7 years ago I spoke about most of this with my parents and they admitted they felt they'd done things wrong, my dad felt that by teaching me how bad the world is he was protecting me cuz I was so naive (how on earth he thought that lying, cheating, hurting, and emotional and mental cruelty was the best method I don't know) but he regrets it anyway. My mum aint really changed in many ways but I guess she's more accepting and less bitter.

 

I've changed a lot too because I'm not a raging angry person all the time any more now that I've learnt how to communicate to a degree.

 

So in light of this, is it wrong to say that I wish they'd seen something like this programme/s? Because the skills I've learnt/become aware of/am struggling to learn only really started properly at 20+ and now I'm 30 it's really hard to find ways of learning things that my nephews and nieces (who are all little kids/young teens) do without a problem? And we wasted years having no quality of relationship?

Edited by darkshine

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Ok here goes - in hindsight after considering many aspects of my life that were entirely confusing and unclear, I consider that the types of advice offered in the programme/s under discussion that both me and my parents would have benefited from a lot of the techniques that have been part of the methods on the programme/s.

 

I am not saying that it was all my parents fault just as much as it wasn't mine - but there was a definite breakdown in communication that speaking for myself, I had neither the ability or the knowledge of how to rectify, there was a lot of things I didn't know how to rectify ranging from issues, my behaviour, communication, confidence etc (pretty much previous list).

 

I believe that on some part it was my parents responsibility to assist me in those things. Instead I had to deal with things beyond my years because I was good at listening, got screamed and shouted, slapped hit and thumped, called names throughout teen years, teased and insulted when I struggled to communicate, ignored and on and on and on...

 

But whether this is in agreement with you or not, by the time I was 14 I felt like an unwanted, unloved, accident, I felt like I wasn't ever good enough, and I don't think that's right.

 

I see it as a two-way thing - if I'd have been assisted in developing the skills relating to my quote then it would have enabled me to do them easier, as it is I learned a lot of 'em anyway but it took years and years to work it out and even then there are some 6 year old with a better grasp at these things than I have.

 

About 7 years ago I spoke about most of this with my parents and they admitted they felt they'd done things wrong, my dad felt that by teaching me how bad the world is he was protecting me cuz I was so naive (how on earth he thought that lying, cheating, hurting, and emotional and mental cruelty was the best method I don't know) but he regrets it anyway. My mum aint really changed in many ways but I guess she's more accepting and less bitter.

 

I've changed a lot too because I'm not a raging angry person all the time any more now that I've learnt how to communicate to a degree.

 

So in light of this, is it wrong to say that I wish they'd seen something like this programme/s? Because the skills I've learnt/become aware of/am struggling to learn only really started properly at 20+ and now I'm 30 it's really hard to find ways of learning things that my nephews and nieces (who are all little kids/young teens) do without a problem? And we wasted years having no quality of relationship?

 

Hi.

I have decided to opt out of this thread now.

 

I have said all that I wanted to say and think my views are very clear.

However I do want to say that I do not have any problem with time out.

My husband and myself both used it as probably the main form of discipline.

I think some assumptions are being made about my views which are not true.They are assumptions.They are not based on my situation now because up until two weeks ago I had not posted for about eight months.Since then I have posted nothing that would reflect my personal situation now and I don't intend to in future.[Well other than having a rat] :lol:

 

I will not be talking about my personal experience because I have learned as demonstrated yesterday that BD will make assumptions based on HIS OWN COMPLETELY INACURATE view and use the information to score points later.

It is information that is inflamatory,objectionable to me and so is against Forum rules.

If I was JF I would have a PR person to take out a libel case but I don't have the money. :rolleyes:

This is the main reason why this programme is a problem.People use information to give whatever slant they wish.This is exactly what some people do all the time.

I want to be very clear that I have no issue with you.

 

I have not been around for several months.Unfortunately I forgot that some threads are posted with the expectation that they will only be responded to by people that agree.

 

I cannot help very much because from experience I am only now reading half of the posts as I am within my rights to do.This is probably why the thread is confusing for you.

I am sure it has nothing to do with you.Apparently taking part in a thread whilst only reading half the posts confuses people.Sorry I had not tried it before and will learn. :)

 

I posted on a thread in off topic.I did not intend to get into any depth about your personal experience because this is in ''off topic'' and not'' help and advice'' or ''general discussion''.

 

I would not have posted on a thread started by BD elsewhere as I can decide what to do with my time and it would not be a good use of it.

I will in future be challenging every single reference to my history that I come accross.

I do not wish to discuss it now or have it discussed.

However this is nothing to do with you so I do aplogise if you thought it was. >:D<<'> >:D<<'>

I will learn from experience.

Karen.

Edited by Karen A

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Would you dream of telling a child who had behaved well, 'oh, it wasn't you being good, it was just good behaviour'? No? Same concept, different spin.

The praise/repremand the behaviour not the child is the basis of much school discipline (and yes teachers get it wrong too sometimes... :rolleyes:). You've worded this to make it sound wrong, but for this to work, you do indeed praise the bahaviour by making it very clear to the child what it is they have done that you are pleased with or that is a 'good' action. Children need those specifics to continue enacting positive bahviours. The same applies to repremanding negative behaviours - you need to be really specific about what they did that was wrong so they understand exactly what not to enact again.

 

One thing I always found difficult when teaching particularly when working under an (otherwise very good) line-manager who was strongly into praising the positives, was that I felt I was having to praise (and reward) children for what they would be expected to be doing anyway. I don't think that's appropriate and I don't think it's right giving children rewards for things they can do and should be doing on a daily basis. These should be the expectation, and should be sanctioned if not enacted.

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Hi.

I have decided to opt out of this thread now.

 

I have not been around for several months.Unfortunately I forgot that some threads are posted with the expectation that they will only be responded to by people that agree.

Hi Karen the bit you quoted was just me trying to clarify an earlier statement that bd questioned.

 

I don't mind how you read the posts and I have enjoyed talking about everything within this post with you. I'm not after any advice or help at all and if you have more to say you can completely disregard my personal experience (I was just justifying where some of my view comes from) because I couldn't think of another way of explaining without relating it to an actual example :rolleyes:

 

Believe me that I am not aiming my comment of confusion at you - or anyone in particular really - after all, it's me getting confused and that's not your fault at all :)

 

I am perfectly fine with your views and was only questioning them to see what I think in my own mind - you raised some very relevant points I thought and I don't believe that everyone has to agree - it'd be pretty boring if they did all the time!

 

I am sorry if my personal experience was the wrong thing to say.

 

Good luck with el ratto :thumbs:

 

Best

Darkshine

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Hi.

I have decided to opt out of this thread now.

 

I have said all that I wanted to say and think my views are very clear.

However I do want to say that I do not have any problem with time out.

My husband and myself both used it as probably the main form of discipline.

I think some assumptions are being made about my views which are not true.They are assumptions.They are not based on my situation now because up until two weeks ago I had not posted for about eight months.Since then I have posted nothing that would reflect my personal situation now and I don't intend to in future.[Well other than having a rat] :lol:

 

I will not be talking about my personal experience because I have learned as demonstrated yesterday that BD will make assumptions based on HIS OWN COMPLETELY INACURATE view and use the information to score points later.

It is information that is inflamatory,objectionable to me and so is against Forum rules.

If I was JF I would have a PR person to take out a libel case but I don't have the money. :rolleyes:

This is the main reason why this programme is a problem.People use information to give whatever slant they wish.This is exactly what some people do all the time.

I want to be very clear that I have no issue with you.

 

I have not been around for several months.Unfortunately I forgot that some threads are posted with the expectation that they will only be responded to by people that agree.

 

I cannot help very much because from experience I am only now reading half of the posts as I am within my rights to do.This is probably why the thread is confusing for you.

I am sure it has nothing to do with you.Apparently taking part in a thread whilst only reading half the posts confuses people.Sorry I had not tried it before and will learn. :)

 

I posted on a thread in off topic.I did not intend to get into any depth about your personal experience because this is in ''off topic'' and not'' help and advice'' or ''general discussion''.

 

I would not have posted on a thread started by BD elsewhere as I can decide what to do with my time and it would not be a good use of it.

I will in future be challenging every single reference to my history that I come accross.

I do not wish to discuss it now or have it discussed.

However this is nothing to do with you so I do aplogise if you thought it was. >:D<<'> >:D<<'>

I will learn from experience.

Karen.

 

Are you accusing me of libel? :wacko:

Are you saying that history ceases to be relevant after it has happened? :wacko:

Karen, you took umbrage with a point I made regarding the relevance of personal experience on perceptions - i.e. subjectiveness. It was (and is) completely relevant to this discussion in this thread. That you have taken umbrage does not mean that observation was 'libelous', 'inflammatory', or anything else, and TBH I think you've been far more aggressive in making your point (which I still don't fully understand?), as evidenced by the snide comments in this one about 'some topics only being for people who agree' or whatever it was when quite clearly others have managed quite successfully to discuss different views on parenting/discipline etc, than I have been. And lets not even get started on 'libelous'. :blink:

 

As for whether you 'have an issue' with me or not I've got to say that doesn't entirely sound convincing, but I'll leave it up to others to draw their own conclusions, if in any way bothered to do so, by looking at posts you've made in response to my posts, whether posted historically or over the past few days. I'm certainly not bothered by it, if indeed you do 'have an issue', but if it means you become incapable of telling wood from trees when I happen to be in the same forest as you it's perhaps something you need to think about?

 

I would add that looking at a situation from every angle is usually considered a positive rather than a 'slant'. That you would prefer the culpability of parents was kept out of programmes like Super Nanny or threads discussing childhood behavioural issues may seem a 'problem' to you, but for most people it would seem, I hope, an intrinsic part of the solution(?)

 

I am very sorry you feel I have a completely inaccurate view of historical factors in your life and of your mental health issues and of your parenting issues. I certainly only have the information you have shared to go on, and I have only referred to that information in the most general terms to observe that it would be relevant to how you would perceive a TV programme addressing aspects of parenting in realation to childhood behaviour - the very topic under discussion in a thread about the TV programme 'Super Nanny'. Perhaps, with hindsight, it was 'not the thread for you'?

 

I also have no idea why you have 'only been able to read half the posts'? Has it been suggested by someone that you 'block' my posts as a practical solution to your taking issue with them? Personally, I don't think that's a 'positive' solution to these kinds of issues, because it does, in effect and for an individual, create exactly the kind of threads you've just complained about - where any contrary opinion is potentially 'hidden' and only those that reinforce one's existing views remain. That said, however, I think if one does have an issue with another poster then it could make sense, but as you've said that is not the case here I don't see why you can only read half the posts(?)

 

TBH, I think, in context, I've responded very politely to your posts in this thread, and on many other similar occasions that have arisen historically. I try top do that a majority of the time, but obviously only have so much patience before I start to respond in kind. I am, after all, only human, and have no 'Super' (unlike nanny J) powers to fall back on.

 

L&P

 

BD

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Hi Karen the bit you quoted was just me trying to clarify an earlier statement that bd questioned.

 

I don't mind how you read the posts and I have enjoyed talking about everything within this post with you. I'm not after any advice or help at all and if you have more to say you can completely disregard my personal experience (I was just justifying where some of my view comes from) because I couldn't think of another way of explaining without relating it to an actual example :rolleyes:

 

Believe me that I am not aiming my comment of confusion at you - or anyone in particular really - after all, it's me getting confused and that's not your fault at all :)

 

I am perfectly fine with your views and was only questioning them to see what I think in my own mind - you raised some very relevant points I thought and I don't believe that everyone has to agree - it'd be pretty boring if they did all the time!

 

I am sorry if my personal experience was the wrong thing to say.

 

Good luck with el ratto :thumbs:

 

Best

Darkshine

 

 

I have come back in because I am a person of integrity and have no issue with you.

You have nothing to apologise for.

Your personal experience did not upsett me at all.

It takes a lot to upsett me.

Please don't blame yourself for being confused.

I can think of many many reasons for you being confused which have nothing to do with you at all.

Not least the fact that many of us have taken this thread here,there and everywhere [including rats] because it is in ''off topic'' which is not intended for in depth coverage of personal issues.

The bottom line is that this is a debate about a TV programme which some people love and some hate.

There are not supposed to be right or wrong opinions.

Nobody should have to apologise for any view as long as it is within Forum rules. >:D<<'> >:D<<'> >:D<<'>

Even if you are confused that is nothing to need to apologise for.

I have in the past posted an awful lot.You will not know me very well because I had a sabatical.

However people who have read my thousands of posts would know I would never think badly of a person that is confused. >:D<<'> >:D<<'>

 

Karen.

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The praise/repremand the behaviour not the child is the basis of much school discipline (and yes teachers get it wrong too sometimes... :rolleyes:). You've worded this to make it sound wrong, but for this to work, you do indeed praise the bahaviour by making it very clear to the child what it is they have done that you are pleased with or that is a 'good' action. Children need those specifics to continue enacting positive bahviours. The same applies to repremanding negative behaviours - you need to be really specific about what they did that was wrong so they understand exactly what not to enact again.

 

One thing I always found difficult when teaching particularly when working under an (otherwise very good) line-manager who was strongly into praising the positives, was that I felt I was having to praise (and reward) children for what they would be expected to be doing anyway. I don't think that's appropriate and I don't think it's right giving children rewards for things they can do and should be doing on a daily basis. These should be the expectation, and should be sanctioned if not enacted.

 

Hi Mumble - I think maybe you've taken this out of context... you need to look at it in relation to the 'flipside' coin of ownership of negative behaviours too, which was the post Lynden made and I responded to. I absolutely agree with what you've said in your first para, and that the child's 'ownership' of their good and bad behaviours is of paramount importance to their development and understanding.

 

With your second paragraph, I think it can be a bit more complicated than that, but agree with regard to the scenario you've outlined... easier if I offer a practical example of where 'rewarding' things they should be doing anyway can be a positive -

 

When Ben was little his star chart had three daily 'targets': One of the items was a 'given' (something like 'do something nice each day', which even on the worst days was absolutely achievable!). The second was an 'almost given' (something like 'try hard in school', which he usually did and could be manipulated anyway to mean that stars weren't given only on the days he really took the pee!) and the third was his actual target, which changed as he achieved certain things. I could have just as easily given him a 'one star star chart' (7 reward coins max a week), but by making it three stars (21 max reward coins per week)it meant he got positive reinforcement for positive behaviours every day coupled with a meaningful sanction for negative behaviours on the days he didn't meet the more challenging expectations being placed on him. Same 'net' result, but less focussed on a single issue. Occasionally it might mean he'd get a 'reward' even on weeks when he hadn't hit his main target, but this would be delayed by a few days at least as he had to make up the missing third reward coins from 'firsts' and 'seconds', this was also a good area where the discretionary 'second' coin could be played either way :whistle: (sneaky, huh?) :whistle:

 

 

A different kettle of fish to the one you describe, but an example of how rewarding 'expected' behaviour can be a positive in working towards target behaviours.

 

L&P

 

BD

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I have come back in because I am a person of integrity and have no issue with you.

You have nothing to apologise for.

Your personal experience did not upsett me at all.

It takes a lot to upsett me.

Please don't blame yourself for being confused.

I can think of many many reasons for you being confused which have nothing to do with you at all.

Not least the fact that many of us have taken this thread here,there and everywhere [including rats] because it is in ''off topic'' which is not intended for in depth coverage of personal issues.

The bottom line is that this is a debate about a TV programme which some people love and some hate.

There are not supposed to be right or wrong opinions.

Nobody should have to apologise for any view as long as it is within Forum rules. >:D<<'> >:D<<'> >:D<<'>

Even if you are confused that is nothing to need to apologise for.

I have in the past posted an awful lot.You will not know me very well because I had a sabatical.

However people who have read my thousands of posts would know I would never think badly of a person that is confused. >:D<<'> >:D<<'>

 

Karen.

Well, I look forward to hearing more from you Karen cuz I found your views interesting - I appreciate I used a bad example and will bear this in mind in future - but I really did find what you were saying earlier interesting because it provided another side to the discussion and I think that adds to the variety of things.

:thumbs::D

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When Ben was little his star chart had three daily 'targets': One of the items was a 'given' (something like 'do something nice each day', which even on the worst days was absolutely achievable!). The second was an 'almost given' (something like 'try hard in school', which he usually did and could be manipulated anyway to mean that stars weren't given only on the days he really took the pee!) and the third was his actual target, which changed as he achieved certain things. I could have just as easily given him a 'one star star chart' (7 reward coins max a week), but by making it three stars (21 max reward coins per week)it meant he got positive reinforcement for positive behaviours every day coupled with a meaningful sanction for negative behaviours on the days he didn't meet the more challenging expectations being placed on him. Same 'net' result, but less focussed on a single issue. Occasionally it might mean he'd get a 'reward' even on weeks when he hadn't hit his main target, but this would be delayed by a few days at least as he had to make up the missing third reward coins from 'firsts' and 'seconds', this was also a good area where the discretionary 'second' coin could be played either way :whistle: (sneaky, huh?) :whistle:

 

 

A different kettle of fish to the one you describe, but an example of how rewarding 'expected' behaviour can be a positive in working towards target behaviours.

I was actually thinking about this because you've discussed it before when I posted and thought you might come back with this. How's that for mind-reading, huh? :huh: *hands back dx in shame* :(:shame::lol:

 

This is why I put the 'can do' into my post - I was thinking more along the lines of something the child has never (well apart from developmental, couldn't do when a baby of course before any smart-alec comes along... :shame:) had an issue with and would be expected as normal polite behaviour or sensible on health and safety grounds. For instance, as a really practical example, why should a child receive praise/reward for having all four legs of their chair on the floor? To me, there should be a sanction (actually depending on the child I would use humour which worked very well) for that.

 

I actually do have an issue with your targets though (though I accept that maybe they're not the ones you used and just a rushed typing job) - what does being nice each day mean? If I feed my goldfish and talk to it I've 'been nice' but then I could be horrid to all the kids, teacher etc., but I have still technically been 'nice'. Very flippant example, purposely, but the same could apply in trying hard in school. What does that actually mean? Who's definition of hard? Hard for whom, etc.? I've always been a fan of SMART targets, and would integrate that into praise/sanctions as it makes it really clear the exact behaviour that is being rewarded/sanctioned. :)

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I was actually thinking about this because you've discussed it before when I posted and thought you might come back with this. How's that for mind-reading, huh? :huh: *hands back dx in shame* :(:shame::lol:

 

This is why I put the 'can do' into my post - I was thinking more along the lines of something the child has never (well apart from developmental, couldn't do when a baby of course before any smart-alec comes along... :shame:) had an issue with and would be expected as normal polite behaviour or sensible on health and safety grounds. For instance, as a really practical example, why should a child receive praise/reward for having all four legs of their chair on the floor? To me, there should be a sanction (actually depending on the child I would use humour which worked very well) for that.

 

I actually do have an issue with your targets though (though I accept that maybe they're not the ones you used and just a rushed typing job) - what does being nice each day mean? If I feed my goldfish and talk to it I've 'been nice' but then I could be horrid to all the kids, teacher etc., but I have still technically been 'nice'. Very flippant example, purposely, but the same could apply in trying hard in school. What does that actually mean? Who's definition of hard? Hard for whom, etc.? I've always been a fan of SMART targets, and would integrate that into praise/sanctions as it makes it really clear the exact behaviour that is being rewarded/sanctioned. :)

 

 

Ahhh... 'doing something nice each day' not 'being nice'... So it could be feeding the goldfish. The 'sanctions' for not nice things are the other two areas. For ben, one was actually 'Loving Daddy' - twee, meaningless and silly, but age appropriate at the time. i didn't put it down in case somebody decided to score points by suggesting it was 'indoctrination' or trying to suggest there was something inappropriate or 'sick' surrounding the completely innocent, twee, flippant, meaningless 'love daddy'. :ph34r: Nasty, eh?

 

Chair tipping... i think if a child had a really bad habit of chair tipping (guess who did? :lol: ) then making that a target for praise / reward would be fine, but more as a 'well done for not rocking your chair much today and for responding well to requests when asked to stop' (shortened to 'well done for good sitting' or some such - I'm only spelling out the whole scenario for the sake of clarity)at the end of the day as an ongoing process of praise throughout, iyswim. Samne applies to 'trying hard in school' - this is deliberately vague so the reward is achievable pretty much at my discretion... The only concrete reward was the one for the 'target' behaviour- Ben's at one point being 'No Hitting'. There were no allowances for who, when, where, why etc (though obviously if he'd really been backed into a corner there would be a discussion surrounding that to take the 'sting' out of the sanction). Obviously, for a very small number of very literal children you might have to find a black/white way of phrasing that, but most would be able to conceptualise 'good sitting' with 'not tipping' in the sense of a star chart reward without drawing all of the other 'good sitting' possibilities into it and getting confused.

 

I'm certainly not suggesting is a universal model / solution, or one without potential flaws (just as has a single 'concrete' reward system), but it worked very well for us where other (single) star charts failed, and didn't lose it's charm (?) over time.

 

 

Hope that helps

 

L&P

 

BD

Edited by baddad

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Hi Karen the bit you quoted was just me trying to clarify an earlier statement that bd questioned.

 

I don't mind how you read the posts and I have enjoyed talking about everything within this post with you. I'm not after any advice or help at all and if you have more to say you can completely disregard my personal experience (I was just justifying where some of my view comes from) because I couldn't think of another way of explaining without relating it to an actual example :rolleyes:

 

Believe me that I am not aiming my comment of confusion at you - or anyone in particular really - after all, it's me getting confused and that's not your fault at all :)

 

I am perfectly fine with your views and was only questioning them to see what I think in my own mind - you raised some very relevant points I thought and I don't believe that everyone has to agree - it'd be pretty boring if they did all the time!

 

I am sorry if my personal experience was the wrong thing to say.

 

Good luck with el ratto :thumbs:

 

Best

Darkshine

 

I may well be around elswhere on the Forum as I get about... perhaps after taking a breather.

The rat has not been seen today......perhaps he can smell the poison. :lol:

 

Karen.

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Oh well, we got to 4 pages before the inevitable shall happen... :rolleyes:

 

Where's the shakes head in despair emoticon?

 

I shall save my pent up frustration for Sunday's sock rat. :fight::lol:

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Well, I look forward to hearing more from you Karen cuz I found your views interesting - I appreciate I used a bad example and will bear this in mind in future - but I really did find what you were saying earlier interesting because it provided another side to the discussion and I think that adds to the variety of things.

:thumbs::D

 

No.

You can use whatever example you like and don't need to worry about bearing anything in mind.

I am not a sensitive person and don't care how bad your examples are.

I have only ever in all my time on the Forum had an issue with one person posting anything that offended me with regard to personal information and it will now be very clear that that person is not you. :D

 

It is just very unfortunate that you have been upsett by something that has absolutely nothing to do with you.

Karen.

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Oh well, we got to 4 pages before the inevitable shall happen... :rolleyes:

 

Where's the shakes head in despair emoticon?

 

I shall save my pent up frustration for Sunday's sock rat. :fight::lol:

 

 

Feel free to vent whatever frustration you have.

It is just unfortunate that there appear to be no mods around.

I am out of this thread now.

I just needed to post here as I could not think of another option. :)

There again if you do happen to see a rat on Sunday sock or better still real feel free to hit him very hard.

The police came to search the flower beds at the front of the house on the estate yesterday for drugs

I had to warn them to watch wear the rummaged. :sick::lol:

 

Karen.

Edited by Karen A

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Sorry there are no mods around Karen but I can only speak for myself. Having just been made redundant, I'm sure you'll appreciate that looking for another job takes priority over nannying the forum at the moment. I'll be around when I can. In the meantime perhaps you or anyone else who has a problem would like to direct it to one of the other mods via pm.(except Tally who is taking a break at the moment) Failing that, feel free to pm me and I'll do my best to respond when I have a free moment, but I just want to emphasise that it's way down my priority list- right now- nothing personal.

 

Now let's get back to the topic- whatever that is!

 

K x

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Sorry there are no mods around Karen but I can only speak for myself. Having just been made redundant, I'm sure you'll appreciate that looking for another job takes priority over nannying the forum at the moment. I'll be around when I can. In the meantime perhaps you or anyone else who has a problem would like to direct it to one of the other mods via pm.(except Tally who is taking a break at the moment) Failing that, feel free to pm me and I'll do my best to respond when I have a free moment, but I just want to emphasise that it's way down my priority list- right now- nothing personal.

 

Now let's get back to the topic- whatever that is!

 

K x

 

 

Hi kathryn -

sorry to hear about the redundancy etc :(

Hope you find something suitable - preferably better, more rewarding, better paid etc soon >:D<<'>

 

L&P

 

BD

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Sorry there are no mods around Karen but I can only speak for myself. Having just been made redundant, I'm sure you'll appreciate that looking for another job takes priority over nannying the forum at the moment. I'll be around when I can. In the meantime perhaps you or anyone else who has a problem would like to direct it to one of the other mods via pm.(except Tally who is taking a break at the moment) Failing that, feel free to pm me and I'll do my best to respond when I have a free moment, but I just want to emphasise that it's way down my priority list- right now- nothing personal.

 

Now let's get back to the topic- whatever that is!

 

K x

 

No.

I won't be sending you any pms as I do not need you to nanny me anymore. :rolleyes::rolleyes:>:D<<'>

Would not dream of bothering Tally at the minute and have realised I can look after myself.

Please all have a break.I thought it very unusual no one was around.

It has taken too long for you to put yourself first.I will learn from your excellent example as ever.

XXX

Karen.

Edited by Karen A

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Having just been on the supernanny web site I thought I would clarify something.

 

Apart from calling the naughty step the naughty step...I prefer Time Out myself .I have absolutely no problem with the information given on the web site on the naughty step.As described it is the method used with both of our lads.

They are both settled in secondary school and doing extremely well.So I have no problem with this strategy as described.

 

 

Whilst the programme for anyone in doubt I have a few issues with. :whistle::whistle::rolleyes:

In any case it is on tonight for anyone interested.

As it is up against top gear and Sherlock I don't rate my chances too highly of seing the programme with three blokes in the house unless I put them all on a naughty step under false pretenses. :o:o:o

 

Karen.

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Nope, no 'uncontrollable' kids again...

 

I LOVED the little brother in the clip at the end (coming up on next week's show) Whipsering with almost religious fervour as his brother reached for the biscuit jar; 'Yeeeeeeeeeesssssssss.... YEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS...' :lol:

 

:D

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http://www.supernanny.co.uk/

 

I discovered yesterday that JF is looking for participants for a new series around children getting into trouble in school.

A wonderful oppurtunity for any parents who cannot in the current climate obtain help from ACE,parent partnership,CAMHS,school or the LA due to cut backs.

 

You too can have an assessment in a shopping centre carried out by an individual with no qualifications filmed for TV which promises magic results based mainly on your own work.At no cost to you and with no follow through at all if the results don't work. :whistle::whistle::whistle:

 

You could even have your efforts on the programme peer reviewed here if you wish.

Different production company to the current series.My word JF is busy.One programme on air and already looking for another opurtunity.

 

Karen.

Edited by Karen A

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At no cost to you and with no follow through at all if the results don't work. :whistle::whistle::whistle:

One thing I've wondered about Super Frosty and other similar programmes (I have no evidence either way, simply just a wondering) is whether they only show those families where the intervention has been successful? Every intervention of JF has worked. Is this because these always work as they're based on common sense, or because we only see it when it works? :unsure:

 

On the discussion of whether JF has or needs qualifications or whether experience is enough, I think she answered this for herself last night in talking about toilet training - her discussion of using wetness after a nap (or not) to determine readiness to train really seemed to be based on her experience and showed how important experience is.

 

Oh, and when did JF learn to pronounce 'unacceptable' correctly? Her unacceptable pronunciation used to be her trademark (well in my head anyhoo) but she got it right last night! :lol:

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For anyone like me who missed it (lost rank on tv claimage) :rolleyes:

 

Ze Link

 

Oooh the ones I watched earlier this week weren't the current series then - they were from series 5 of super nanny not this extreme parenting series. Will have to go watch them now :)

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Oooh the ones I watched earlier this week weren't the current series then - they were from series 5 of super nanny not this extreme parenting series. Will have to go watch them now :)

Happy viewing - that'll take a good 5 hours from ya life ;)

 

I still haven't watched it - had a power cut last night :rolleyes:

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One thing I've wondered about Super Frosty and other similar programmes (I have no evidence either way, simply just a wondering) is whether they only show those families where the intervention has been successful? Every intervention of JF has worked. Is this because these always work as they're based on common sense, or because we only see it when it works? :unsure:

 

On the discussion of whether JF has or needs qualifications or whether experience is enough, I think she answered this for herself last night in talking about toilet training - her discussion of using wetness after a nap (or not) to determine readiness to train really seemed to be based on her experience and showed how important experience is.

 

Oh, and when did JF learn to pronounce 'unacceptable' correctly? Her unacceptable pronunciation used to be her trademark (well in my head anyhoo) but she got it right last night! :lol:

What!?! She pronounced it right again? Only heard this once before! Quite a bit of difference between ass and ack at the start of the word ;)

 

I already said about editing - but you said it clearer :P that bits hard to judge innit - cuz you just don't know with editing - unless there's a huge outcry from parents who have taken part in the show about it.... unless they've been silenced in some way :ph34r:;)

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I just thought of something.... in terms of pronunciation of words - I got totally told off by a load of people for correcting someone who kept saying "pacific" instead of "specific" :rolleyes: the person I was telling didn't have a problem with me but the 4 people listening did - bandwagons are sooo annoying :P especially since my valid argument that the person could say "spoon" "special" and every over damn "sp" word apart form "specific" (they said it right after though :lol:)

 

Does anyone else have issues with how people say the word "schedule"?

Is it shedule of skedule?

 

I argue for sk :D

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One thing I've wondered about Super Frosty and other similar programmes (I have no evidence either way, simply just a wondering) is whether they only show those families where the intervention has been successful? Every intervention of JF has worked. Is this because these always work as they're based on common sense, or because we only see it when it works? :unsure:

 

On the discussion of whether JF has or needs qualifications or whether experience is enough, I think she answered this for herself last night in talking about toilet training - her discussion of using wetness after a nap (or not) to determine readiness to train really seemed to be based on her experience and showed how important experience is.

 

Oh, and when did JF learn to pronounce 'unacceptable' correctly? Her unacceptable pronunciation used to be her trademark (well in my head anyhoo) but she got it right last night! :lol:

 

Thinking back to 'the girl with the boy's haircut' who showed up at the roadshow, JF gave her some very sensible general advice about phobias etc and suggested NLP (I think?) as a possible helpful avenue to pursue and made a point that this was a specialist area beyond her remit. She said something similar in an earlier roadshow segment, but I can't remember what the problem was! Either way, shows she's not afraid to put her hands up and admit she has limitations, and that the help / advice she offers can't solve every problem. Have yet to see, though, any episode where the unsolvable problem has arisen from the child rather than responses to and influences on the child.

 

Additionally, I've seen a few shows where Jo has 'stepped down', but that's been because the problem she's been asked to resolve turns out to be different to the one she actually encounters, and for whatever reason the issues are not issues she can help with. One was with a family where the mother was filmed in the middle of the night smacking the child across the mouth because he she wouldn't sleep. On seeing that, JF urged the family to seek professional input for the mother's anger management and backed out. Another time the parents just refused to put in place the sanctions etc suggested, so everything broke down again after she left. Obviously that doesn't say anything about the overall continuity of the show, but I think if there were huge numbers of people being filmed and it not working out you'd have heard about it by now. A quick look through this thread will show how tetchy people can get even from the sidlelines! I'm wondering if the comment will come up now 'oh, so if she feels UNQUALIFIED to help she just WALKS AWAY and abandons them, or something. Which would, of course, be in complete contradition of what's been said earlier and an attempt to turn something sensible and positive into a negative :whistle: .

 

You too can have an assessment in a shopping centre carried out by an individual with no qualifications filmed for TV which promises magic results based mainly on your own work.At no cost to you and with no follow through at all if the results don't work.

 

 

 

Based on your own work... the work of the parents? :blink: Is the suggestion here that every family with a badly behaved child in it should have their own live in careworker to enforce sanctions and reward positives? Is this what CAMHS offers? Of course it comes down to the parents doing the 'work' - that's what parenting is! Bringing up children! I know that for some (as is mentioned at the begining of Jo's show) that turns out to be much harder work than they anticipated, and of course there will be some parents who find themselves for whatever reason unequal to the task in ways they never / couldn't have anticipated, but if a parent is considered able to have parental responsibility then of course it is their responsibility to 'do the work' that responsibility entails :wacko:

 

Do you think Jo Frost should be charging? With all the millions she's got? Do you object to free services? If someone you met at a support group offered you advice after you had approached and asked them for it would you feel you should pay them for their answer? Do you think JF's advice would be better or different if she charged? At no cost - what a liberty!

 

I can't imagine why anyone would feel that 'no follow through' if it doesn't work would be an issue for anyone anyway(?) It seems, IMO, a similar gainsaying argument that would ultimately end with 'yeah, well every child's different' with the assumption that it wouldn't work for a specific child, rather than evidence of it. The single most important factor in the solutions JF offers is that people act on the advice she offers. In what way is she responsible - or the tv company she makes the programme for - if they don't? It's not like CAMHS, where people can go back month after month, year after year and not act on the advice they're given (or tell the psych/paed whatever they are when they aren't), or a situation where if one, or two, or three, professionals disagree with their diagnosis of their child they can demand (or even pay for) second, third, fourth opinions until they find one who does. Assuming (and I think on the basis that there haven't been smear campaigns suggesting it it's a fairly safe assumption) that for the most part JF's programmes are wysiwyg, why on earth would anyone try to hold her personally responsible for the behaviours of some potentially very screwed up parents? :wacko:

 

Having said that, it will only be a matter of time before a story like that emerges, because it's human nature to blame someone else when one screws up. And just like (i.e.) social services, or the LEA or whatever when a story like that does emerge there will be those whose prejudices will lead them to assume the 'dirt' is real and that there's no smoke without fire regardless of any evidence to the contrary, if, indeed such evidence was allowed to be presented.

 

Blimey, perhaps I should be JF's PR! Just to point out, though, my opinion on these kinds of issues are pretty solid as evidenced in many threads across the forum boards, whether applied to LEA's, Teachers, Social Services, whoever: They may well be monsters all, but even so should never be judged on weak as water arguments from people who seem to have a personal investment in the judgements made against them.

 

 

L&P

 

BD

Edited by baddad

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Do you think Jo Frost should be charging? With all the millions she's got? Do you object to free services? If someone you met at a support group offered you advice after you had approached and asked them for it would you feel you should pay them for their answer? Do you think JF's advice would be better or different if she charged? At no cost - what a liberty!

Oooh, there's an idea. We should ask the forum administrators to add a little 'paypal' box to the corner of all our profiles and whenever someone takes our advice/suggestion and finds it useful, they can make a donation. :lol:

 

Of course, it may also need a 'debit' option... :devil:

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Does anyone else have issues with how people say the word "schedule"?

Is it shedule of skedule?

 

I argue for sk :D

Can you see the 'k'? :shame: Nope. That's cause there ain't one. :lol::devil:

 

And you're supposed to be quiet about schedules, hence the shhh....

 

It's shhhedule. That'll be £10 please. :D

 

But yes, the specific pacific thing gets me - it's sp, sp, sp... :lol: Way round it is easy:

Silly Speaker: "Well the pacific task..."

Correct us (you have a choice): "Oh not that one, it's so damp..." "can't we try the Atlantic task?" - but be prepared for strange looks, though I get these most of the time, so they're normal!

 

Though I have to say, I do feel a little hypocritical when getting annoyed at people's pronunciation - I try to only correct where it's people being lazy/just wrong, rather than unable - I have problems with some words - can't say the words wall/wool or pool/pull/Paul differently or hear a difference without context. :wacko:

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http://www.supernanny.co.uk/

 

I discovered yesterday that JF is looking for participants for a new series around children getting into trouble in school.

A wonderful oppurtunity for any parents who cannot in the current climate obtain help from ACE,parent partnership,CAMHS,school or the LA due to cut backs.

 

You too can have an assessment in a shopping centre carried out by an individual with no qualifications filmed for TV which promises magic results based mainly on your own work.At no cost to you and with no follow through at all if the results don't work.

 

You could even have your efforts on the programme peer reviewed here if you wish.

Different production company to the current series.My word JF is busy.One programme on air and already looking for another opurtunity.

 

Karen

 

I realised I had made a mistake after I posted but have only just got back to correct it.

You could even have your efforts on the programme peer reviewed here if you wish.

Should read.

Please bear in mind that you will have your efforts on the programme peer reviewed here or anywhere else in the public domain whether you wish it or not.

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I say 'worry' not 'wurry'. I know 99.9% of the population say 'wurry' but THEY ARE WRONG!! :whistle: (that's 'wrong', by the way, not 'wrung')

 

Would you go for a ride in a Lurry?

Do you ever apologise by claiming to be a county bordering Kent, Sossex, Hampshire and Berkshire?

Have you ever watched Currie while eating a Corrie?

 

Of course, that doesn't necessarily take regional accents into account, but why the hell should it? Ihey should learn to tork iver proppa English like wot the queen speaks or good ol' mockney like wot I do, ennit? Izzit? Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.... :whistle:

 

Oh another word related thought just occurred to me, and that word is 'Peer' as in 'Peer reviewed'...

 

There is an old joke about the bloke in the dock, and he's given the option of trial by a jury of peers or trial by the panel. He asks what the difference is and is told 'with one the evidence will be reviewed by us, the panel, and with the other by people more like yourself.'

He says 'stuff that for a game of soldiers - I don't want my fate decided by a bunch of thieving neds!' :lol:

Edited by baddad

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Oooh, there's an idea. We should ask the forum administrators to add a little 'paypal' box to the corner of all our profiles and whenever someone takes our advice/suggestion and finds it useful, they can make a donation. :lol:

 

Of course, it may also need a 'debit' option... :devil:

 

Perhaps you should suggest it to the mods. :rolleyes:

 

There are plenty of people that used to be payed to work for official charity organisations and within parent partnership who would love to be payed now by whoever would pay them. :(:(:(

 

Anyone who knows the current situation in Education and the vast majority of charity organisations will know that it is increasingly parents or other volunteers who are providing free advice.That is why people feel cross.

 

David Cameron is at the forefront of a strategy to transfer large sectors of provision that was previously Statutary Provision to the voluntary sector where it is done by volunteers who are comitted enough to the people they serve to do it for nothing.Many will get payed nothing for work they were previously employed to do.

 

As there are so limited Statuary Services left and as much of the legislation protecting people is being removed people have very few options.

 

I think that most people would resent the fact that an individual is making millions on the back of this situation.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/8591345/Supernanny-rides-again-Jo-Frost-interview.html

Big Society via reality television – now that's one for David Cameron to ponder

 

Says it all really. :tearful::tearful::tearful:

 

I didn't know that JFs background is as a nanny to a celebrity who then answered an advertisement to film a series which is what is documented in this interview.

 

A person trained as an actress who decided to be a nanny and was then a nanny for a celebrity..She then embarked on a media career on ''Supernanny''.She has made millions on the back of this career and thinks she can advise parents living in poverty who have very few choices due to current economic climate how to have quality time with their children. :angry::angry::angry::angry:

 

The fact that she is single would not bother me a bit in comparison with this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Karen.

Edited by Karen A

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I intend to take no further part in this thread.

I realise that by even taking part in this thread as the topic appears to be as I can best gather I am now providing publicity for an individual professional and business venture all be it one I do not agree with.

If this was a professional in education or ASD offering services this would not be allowed by Forum rules.

The programme is simply the publicity arm for a writing career that makes millions.

So I will have no further part in any debate.

 

Karen.

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So now Jo Frost is responsible for radical changes in government policy / provison? :blink:

 

And making millions off it? Off of parents who can't afford to spend quality time with their kids and just buy them TV's and X-boxes and laptops and I pads for their bedrooms instead, or trampolines for the back garden (anyone noticed how they all seem to have one!) and give them shop bought / takeaway rubbish instead of a home cooked meal instead?

 

So what about all those years she was doing it before 'The Big Society' bolleaux got rolled out? A cunning plan set in motion years ago? :ph34r::ph34r:

 

Come on, what next, does her breath smell of sulpher and she has a '666' tattoo under all that hair of hers?

 

Actually, it's quite nice to hear someone else is responsible for all the evil in the world. It's usually me getting it in the neck! :lol:

 

L&P

 

BD

Edited by baddad

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