Delayed entry to primary school

[dekra]

Hi guys,

 

My 4 year old had his first assessment today and it looks like they don't think ASD but GDD with Communication Disorder. To me that looks a lot like PDD-NOS except they expect him to eventually grow out of it where as with PDD it's going to have life long difficulties so from that perspective it's positive news. Finn is due to start primary school in Aug 2012 but they think he might not be read and would benefit from an extra year in nursery school. I still have to register him for primary in Jan as it might still be too soon to say one way or another for sure but that the final decison can be made nearer the time.

 

Has anyone else been in this position whether it's been due to ASD or GDD and can tell me of the benefits they found or the disadvantages of keeping their child back a year. Or conversely those advised to keep child back and went against the advice and sent your child to school at the normal time - again what advantages and disadvantages did you find?

[JsMum]

Hi guys,

 

My 4 year old had his first assessment today and it looks like they don't think ASD but GDD with Communication Disorder. To me that looks a lot like PDD-NOS except they expect him to eventually grow out of it where as with PDD it's going to have life long difficulties so from that perspective it's positive news. Finn is due to start primary school in Aug 2012 but they think he might not be read and would benefit from an extra year in nursery school. I still have to register him for primary in Jan as it might still be too soon to say one way or another for sure but that the final decison can be made nearer the time.

 

Has anyone else been in this position whether it's been due to ASD or GDD and can tell me of the benefits they found or the disadvantages of keeping their child back a year. Or conversely those advised to keep child back and went against the advice and sent your child to school at the normal time - again what advantages and disadvantages did you find?

 

My son had speech and language development delay and the LEA have finally excepted Js Communication impairments but Im still battling for the provisions in part 3 of his statement after reassessment of his Statement.

 

Does Finn recieve any provisions at presant with his nursery placement such as 1.1, SALT, Social skills groups?

 

I would recommend you contact the Cerebra Website, if Finn hasnt recieved SALT in your local authority in the last six months then Cerebra offer salt session vouchers,

 

http://www.cerebra.org.uk/English/GetHelp/Pages/HOME.aspx

 

 

As long as Finn has the right provisions and support in place it wouldnt matter if it was a school or Nursery but do you feel that Finn would better suit a more specialised Primary school placement?

 

Also deferring him means he is not starting a provision within line his peer year group.

 

Do you feel Finn would benefit from another year in a nursery placement, or do you think he is ready for a either special or mainstream setting but with additional support.

 

I would contact National Autistic Society Educational help line.

 

http://www.asd-forum.org.uk/forum/Index.php?/topic/20381-special-educational-needs-advice/

 

 

Another service to contact for more information on GDD and ASD differences or if children with a GDD have been misdiagnosed and actually have ASD instead for me if he has a communication disorder I would say he has a ASD need.

 

I recommend Contact A Family.

 

http://www.cafamily.org.uk/Direct/g22.html

 

http://www.cafamily.org.uk/medicalinformation/conditions/azlistings/a84.html

 

 

JsMUMX

Edited August 24, 2011 by JsMum

[justine1]

Hi guys,

 

My 4 year old had his first assessment today and it looks like they don't think ASD but GDD with Communication Disorder. To me that looks a lot like PDD-NOS except they expect him to eventually grow out of it where as with PDD it's going to have life long difficulties so from that perspective it's positive news. Finn is due to start primary school in Aug 2012 but they think he might not be read and would benefit from an extra year in nursery school. I still have to register him for primary in Jan as it might still be too soon to say one way or another for sure but that the final decison can be made nearer the time.

 

Has anyone else been in this position whether it's been due to ASD or GDD and can tell me of the benefits they found or the disadvantages of keeping their child back a year. Or conversely those advised to keep child back and went against the advice and sent your child to school at the normal time - again what advantages and disadvantages did you find?

 

Hi

 

I wished I had delayed Sam's entry into reception. He did'nt have a dx at the time but he is a summer baby (17th August) which made him the youngest in his class and even though he was on half days from the September to the following April I still felt it was too much for him. He spent most of the time in an adjacent room as he could'nt cope with the noise and never followed any instructions, basically being desruptive.

 

Sam had also taken ages to get used to pre-school and was only doing three mornings each week, so to go from that to a full week and to a different setting was quite hard as he had no sort of transition.

 

My other son with ASD is a winter baby and he seems to have coped well, so far (he has just finished reception) he hs a different personality to Sam though. The big difference is that with Sam he has been in trouble for being aggressive whereas Dan has been bullied throughout the year. Not really good for him but overall no regrets about him starting school when he did.

 

So in my opinion I would do what you feel is right, alot can happen in a year and each child is different. He will probably be able to do a few tester dayss at school whilst still being at nursery. Knowing what I know now I would have prepared Sam more for school, even though his older brother attended the same school it did'nt quite register with him that he would be going there. So if you can do social stories and lots of visits to he school that will help. If yoou know another child from his nursery that will attend the school this may help as well, this was another issue for Sam as there were no friends from pre-school that ent to the same school. If after he has started school you still feel unhappy then put it on hold, or you can delay full time entry, I know a few people who hhave done so and has worked well.

[LisaKaz75]

I am in exactly this position at the moment with my 4 year old with diagnosis of autism

 

He is 4 at the end of September and cos of the cut off he misses starting this time. We are looking at school provision. At the moment he has a statement and gets his full 15 hours one to one, and he will get 32.5 hours one to one at primary next September. However, there are big ?? as to whether he is ready

The Ed psych has recommended that a general special unit not appropriate to Leo as he copies behaviours and would come home with some new bad behaviour. There is not a local autism unit, though we can apply across the county, but there is only 1 and hard to get a place. we will visit there, but Leo seems to need his peers to bring him on and worried that this will not push him enough (also dont want him forming close relationships just with adults)

Keeping him back another year has been discussed, though like you we will apply for his place for now

 

Positives: he will be a year older, but could be acting at a levelof the younger pupils by then. More confidence etc...

 

Negatives: may still not be ready and a year older; fights with the LEA (he would nearly be 6 when starting primary, and not expected to like it); been warned could be issues with exam taking in the future, e.g may not be able to do GSCEs etc in school cos of his age

 

I am taking each half term at a time at the moment. (cant think of GCSEs at 16 yet) Would like him to try mainstream with the full time one to one, but dont want him to struggle and things to just go on around him

 

Am glad you posted this, as I will be following the responses closely

 

LisaKaz

[dekra]

Thanks for the replies JsMum and justine.

 

JsMum - Finn attended local authority nursery last year and they got educational psychologist involved, more for helping them with strategies appropriate to helping him than anything else. Also after area staffing problems he does again have a SALT who saw him a few times in May/June whilst at nursery. They have agreed to give him a place at the local specialist SAL workshop probably to start late Sept or early October so he is getting educational support even without the paediatrican involved. so he will do that for 2-4 days a week shortly. I have some knowledge of the workshops as the boy next door went there for 2 years as he had speech problems and it really brought him on although he does still stutter. He has now moved to a private nursery that can do wrap around care when I start Uni next month but the private nursery has a better staff to child ratio so I feel it will be a benefit to him. As he is at the moment he is not ready for school but he does have a year to go and a lot can change so I am unsure about holding him back. The first time holding him back was mentioned was last September (just a passing comment from nursery key worker) and at that time I dismissed this idea completely. Finn doesn't have a statement and as far as I am aware they don't do them in Scotland.

 

At the moment I am not arguing with the GDD - the Dr did know we were concerned about ASD and said whilst he's not ruling it out and it might be the ultimate dx he doesn't think it is. At the moment they are taking his problems seriously and will be doing further assessement to monitor his progress (they are having a meeting tomorrow with the wider team and I will get a copy of the letter telling me more).

 

Justine - Finn is also an Aug baby but here in Scotland the school intake starts from March-Feb so some are 5 and half when they start and some only 4 and half so Finn is smack bam in the middle. If he was one of the younger ones I'd feel more comfortable holding him back. Although what you said about delaying full time entry is interesting assuming he is on 4 afternoons a week at the workshop he would do mornings at school and afternoons at the workshop. I guess all I can do is not worry about it until next summer and see what I feel would work best for him.

[dekra]

The Dr gave me a copy of his profile form "schedule of growing skills II" form.

 

The following skills areas were assessed and the age Finn's skills matched are listed -

 

Locomotor - 30 months

Manipulative 30 months

Visual - 48 months (he is 48 months old so this is the only thing he scored as he ought to)

Hearing & Language - 24 months

Speech & Language - 24 months

Interactive Social - 15 months

Self-Care Social - 24 months

[dekra]

LisaKaz - it is so worrying we have to think about ramifications of this choice right down to their exams in their teens! We shouldn't have to worry about that until we are registering them for a decent high school!

[Lynden]

Hi Dekra

 

In Scotland I wouldn't hesitate in holding him back if you don't think he's ready. In England, if they are kept back a year they'd have to go into Year 1 (equivalent of P2) but obviously in Scotland it's different and he would just go into P1 as the oldest in his class. A year is a long time though so you might find that he is ready.

 

When we moved down to London I had the opposite problem - in Scotland he wouldn't have started school till 1998 as he's an august baby but in here because he was 4 before the end of August he had to start in 1997 and was the youngest in his year. He did go to a SEN school though with the view he would only do half days but he was doing full days by the end of his first week and loved it.

 

I have friends at home in Scotland who kept their kids back for various reasons, one had ADHD, the others the Mums just didn't feel like they were ready and for most it was a positive experience.

 

Lynne x

[kwjd]

I am the the same situation. My son who is 5, 6 in Feb has been going to nursery (mainstream) since he was 3 so 2 half years. This Sept after a few week prior to the six weeks hols the school tried to intergrate him into reception. So know whats where he is. He has a diognosis of Autism. Im am not getting any help with him in school. He sees a speech therapist in school once a week. I have tried to speak to the school about his needs it is a problem and i have no clue whats going to happen. the head has said he is going to see what help he can get I would appreciate some advice on what to do????

 

I have found that being in nursery for the legnth of time he has has really helped him as he took so long to "get" what nursery was about and using it to its full advantage.

[cmuir]

Hi guys,

 

My 4 year old had his first assessment today and it looks like they don't think ASD but GDD with Communication Disorder. To me that looks a lot like PDD-NOS except they expect him to eventually grow out of it where as with PDD it's going to have life long difficulties so from that perspective it's positive news. Finn is due to start primary school in Aug 2012 but they think he might not be read and would benefit from an extra year in nursery school. I still have to register him for primary in Jan as it might still be too soon to say one way or another for sure but that the final decison can be made nearer the time.

 

Has anyone else been in this position whether it's been due to ASD or GDD and can tell me of the benefits they found or the disadvantages of keeping their child back a year. Or conversely those advised to keep child back and went against the advice and sent your child to school at the normal time - again what advantages and disadvantages did you find?

 

 

That seems strange saying that kiddo could grow out of it – no one, including professionals, have a crystal ball. For sure, I've found that my son has made excellent progress in certain areas, but not so in others. It's so difficult to determine. My son started school at 4.5 years old. I felt it best to try and see how he coped. Must say it was far from easy, but I felt there was nothing to be gained by holding him back a year. It's a very personal decision. I think you're doing the right thing by keeping your options open just now.

 

Best wishes

 

Caroline

[Sally44]

I think it would help you if they explained WHY they think GDD with communication disorder and not ASD?

Has he been referred to the professionals that DO diagnose ASD in your area and have they ruled ASD out?

 

It is always hard to find a suitable place when you have a child that does not seem to fit into any particular peer group on offer.

 

From my experience I would advise that you go with the learning environment, teaching qualifications and expertise, and access to professionals. A special school or unit tends to get more access to those professionals and the teachers SHOULD (but may not) have additional qualifications or experience. [in my LA I have found out that no teachers have any additional teaching qualification for ASD because there is no legal requirement for them to have one - whereas teachers of the visually impaired, or deaf are required to have additional qualifications. I also found out that none of the teachers in the school or even within the LA's specialist teaching service had any additional qualification regarding dyslexia! So always ask questions and ask for examples. Eg. I was told that children in the ASD unit "access" mainstream. When I asked "do they access literacy and numeracy classes mainstream?" I was told that they "access mainstream by doing things like taking the register to the school office." Which isn't "accessing mainstream learning" at all is it.

 

I have found that as a parent you are often told things to persuade you to take the educational placement available, rather than what is needed by your child.

 

Mainstream and special schools contain children that could demonstrate bad behaviour.

 

Think mainly of the learning environment. And remember that IF your child was placed in an ASD unit or special school and you decided that you wanted to move them mainstream, that is easier to do, and the LA would be more inclined to agree to that kind of move because it costs them less money to place a child mainstream and the chances are there would be places available to do that. But if your child is placed mainstream and then does not cope, there will be no places available in either a special school or an ASD unit because those places are all taken up by other children.

 

I would always recommend visiting the placement options. See what the staff/pupil ratio is. See what the academic attainment is of the other children. Ask what they do to improve any areas your child struggles with eg. social communication, speech and communication, problems acquiring basic literacy and numeracy skills. How does your child cope in larger, noisier, distracting environments? Are they able to seek help themselves, or do they need staff to be proactive etc.

Edited September 16, 2011 by Sally44

[Sally44]

I wanted to add that I also considered delaying my son entering school because I could see that he had none of the skills needed for school. He was barely speaking, didn't socialise, had never coloured or painted anything [just did lego and puzzles]. He had no self help skills [dressing, tying laces etc]. And he did not know how to ask for help.

But he was also having these same difficulties in nursery, and hated going to the pre-school nursery, so I also felt that keeping him there another year was not an option.

 

So he started school and after 6 months the school invited me in to tell me that they were referring him to a speech therapist and the Educational Psychologist because they were so concerned about his behaviour and understanding in class.

 

What I wish had happened, is that he had been diagnosed and his needs identified BEFORE he started school.

 

The reasons that you are considering holding your child back maybe due to lifelong difficulties and immaturities. All our kids do progress, but we can't keep holding them back a year if they are not at the same level as their mainstream peers. What you need is an educational environment where they fit in. They are entitled to receive education [and specialist, professional input into that education] NOW.

 

A child that is delayed and has a communication disorder [disorder is not a delay, it means a lifelong language disorder], maybe better catered for in an environment that is ASD specific because those children also have delays and disorders. If that provision is also mainstream, then they should feed through children into mainstream for lessons/activities that that child can cope with.

 

I kept my son mainstream because I felt the mainstream kids would give him the social communication and language models he needed. BUT we have now found out that he also has a SpLD. He is 10+ and illiterate mainstream. He has not learnt social skills and communication skills by being turned out into the playground with other mainstream kids. ASD children typically do NOT learn by example, otherwise they would pick up speech and social communication through their family/school links. But they don't. They need specialist input to be explicitly taught and for that skills to then be generalised to other people and other environments.

 

My son is extremely anxious and had not even attending school for over 9 months. He has developed alot of nervous tics (physical and now vocal), and we are now in a position where there are no suitable mainstream, special school or ASD unit places available and we are trying to get an independent school placement.

 

It is very hard to see into the future. But, in general, the gap between them and their mainstream peers tends to widen over the years.

 

As I said in my earlier post. I would advise going and visiting all potential placements including special and ASD units to see what the peer group is like.