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Earl Purple

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I am new to this site but have been a member of some other Aspergers-related sites, and will probably find I know a number of people here already.

 

My primarily goal is to improve the situation for people with Aspergers in the workplace, and allow us to have fulfilling careers using our own skills rather than being expected to fit in with others to their agenda, and being then let go for personal reasons rather than business-driven ones, because people don't like us if we dared to criticise their work. Also at the application process, ensure some changes are made to make the process a lot fairer.

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rather than being expected to fit in with others to their agenda

Erm, isn't that what work is about? :unsure:

 

Also at the application process, ensure some changes are made to make the process a lot fairer.

Fairer ... or skewed towards positive descrimination (which would then be unfair to others)?

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Their agenda as to the requirements from a business perspective, but not all this "must be a strong team player with excellent verbal and written communication skills" and then using personality tests, trick questions and "competency-based skills" questions to test for them.

 

And no, not positive discrimination either. If they are recruiting 3 positions and you take a technical test and come 4th you've failed. However if you come 1st and are not hired because they have a grudge you might not "fit the team", there is obviously something wrong.

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Their agenda as to the requirements from a business perspective, but not all this "must be a strong team player with excellent verbal and written communication skills" and then using personality tests, trick questions and "competency-based skills" questions to test for them.

 

Am I missing something obvious here? From a business perspective it is essential for some roles that you have excellent communication skills, and for most roles that you can work within a team. That's not a case of disability discrimination - that's going for the wrong job if you don't have those skills.

 

One thing that definitely benefits us is a work trial - the job I had before going on maternity leave (a management position setting up and running a department for a new JV company) I got as a consequence of an admin position through a temp agency - once I got my foot in the door, I was able to prove myself.

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One thing that definitely benefits us is a work trial - the job I had before going on maternity leave (a management position setting up and running a department for a new JV company) I got as a consequence of an admin position through a temp agency - once I got my foot in the door, I was able to prove myself.

This sounds like it could be a good idea :thumbs:

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Am I missing something obvious here? From a business perspective it is essential for some roles that you have excellent communication skills, and for most roles that you can work within a team. That's not a case of disability discrimination - that's going for the wrong job if you don't have those skills.

 

One thing that definitely benefits us is a work trial - the job I had before going on maternity leave (a management position setting up and running a department for a new JV company) I got as a consequence of an admin position through a temp agency - once I got my foot in the door, I was able to prove myself.

 

Much of it is the way they phrase it and what they actually mean by it. What they mean is they want to you to use neurotypical-style communication. Aspies communicate in a different way. Neurotpicals will usually have better verbal communication skills than us, but actually we usually possess the better written communication skills, as we are likely to be more methodical, write with good structure, write clearly what we mean and include all the detail, with no ambiguity.

 

Their way of phrasing it sounds like no adjustments would be made, and you need to fit exactly into their way of doing things. I find the following to be a far better way to phrase things:

 

"Needs to be able to communicate effectively with other members of the team in order to work together towards a common goal and be able to document their ideas clearly".

 

What needs to be done for a business perspective. Sounds reasonable enough to me in order to get the work done.

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Hi,

 

"must be a strong team player with excellent verbal and written communication skills"

 

I must say, this does really worry me. My lad is nearly 18 and will pretty soon be starting to look for work. I know he'd do a good job at whatever job he was able to get, he's honest and consciencious, but I seriously doubt he'd get past any interview. He just doesn't have the verbal skills, his writing is horrendous and he's not able to explain himself or put himself across well. There's no way he'd be able to compete with NT applicants and it's a serious concern that no employer would even be willing to give him a chance just by looking at him. As I said, he would do a good job, but I'm seriously worried he'll never get the chance to.

 

~ Mel ~

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Hi,

 

 

 

I must say, this does really worry me. My lad is nearly 18 and will pretty soon be starting to look for work. I know he'd do a good job at whatever job he was able to get, he's honest and consciencious, but I seriously doubt he'd get past any interview. He just doesn't have the verbal skills, his writing is horrendous and he's not able to explain himself or put himself across well. There's no way he'd be able to compete with NT applicants and it's a serious concern that no employer would even be willing to give him a chance just by looking at him. As I said, he would do a good job, but I'm seriously worried he'll never get the chance to.

 

~ Mel ~

Hi Mel

 

Your post struck a chord with me, as like you i am worried for my son's future (16 yrs old Dx AS).

He is due to start 6th form next week but i am already worried about what comes after that..!

I'am concerned that with much almost the same difficulties that you mention - he would hardly get a look in against NT applicants nor probably get passed an interview, even thou he is a concientous, polite and capable young man.

The thought of 'work' is such a worry..!! :(

 

Bee

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If I am successful in my quest then children growing up will hopefully do so into a better environment than we have now.

 

If your sons can at least work on their written communication skills then a reasonable adjustment could be made. It's harder to see a reasonable adjustment if they cannot communicate at all.

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Yes, Beebee, it is a worry, isn't it. As they get older the options and opportunities seem to narrow even further until there is nothing left for them but their bedroom, I fear. Well, this is my greatest worry really, but we're not having to face it this year at least. :tearful:

 

If your sons can at least work on their written communication skills then a reasonable adjustment could be made. It's harder to see a reasonable adjustment if they cannot communicate at all.

 

It's tricky. My lad is very intelligent, got A's in all three of the sciences but, when it comes to expressing himself on paper, he is horrendous. His writing, for one thing, is more like a six year-olds and he got an E in English, just because he is so poor at putting his thoughts down on paper. It seems such a waste, that he won't get a chance to show off his talents or to fulfill his potential because he just hasn't the skills that others have to get past the first hurdle even. Face-to-face, he can be very unresponsive too and just doesn't come across well. In an interview, the interviewer might be forgiven for thinking that he wasn't even listening to what he was saying, he looks totally switched off and doesn't engage at all. I fear for his future, I really do. :tearful:

 

~ Mel ~

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I hope I am successful in my quest, but given that I may not be, I would try to advise intellectual aspies down career paths that do not require them to go through an interview process with hiring managers looking for personality fit, and perhaps instead to learn a manual trade that they can do self-employed.

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It's tricky. My lad is very intelligent, got A's in all three of the sciences but, when it comes to expressing himself on paper, he is horrendous. His writing, for one thing, is more like a six year-olds and he got an E in English, just because he is so poor at putting his thoughts down on paper. It seems such a waste, that he won't get a chance to show off his talents or to fulfill his potential because he just hasn't the skills that others have to get past the first hurdle even. Face-to-face, he can be very unresponsive too and just doesn't come across well. In an interview, the interviewer might be forgiven for thinking that he wasn't even listening to what he was saying, he looks totally switched off and doesn't engage at all. I fear for his future, I really do.

 

~ Mel ~

 

Hi again Mel,

 

Your son sound's just the same as my Josh..!!

 

My son is very 'techie'.....loves anything to do with computers and got four 'B' grades in I.T but struggled with everything else except Maths. He got an overall grade 'E' in English seemingly for the same reason's as your son. Having checked some of his English practise papers before his GCSE's,(only given out two wks before.!!) with him - he believed that he had answered correctly and at length but in reality he had not really expressed himself well nor answered the questions that had been asked.. :(

Unfortunately with his school being so useless (long story.!!), it was too late to do anything to help him..!! He has now been put onto 'four' sixth form courses for subjects he has already taken GCSE's in and now has only six I.T lesson's a week, which he is desperately unhappy about!! He thinks his chances of getting a job in his chosen career of I.T have now all but disappeared.

 

I do worry that he will 'give up' and become reclusive at home, with the Playstation as his only friend. :(

I wish there was some way that schools' and college's could be MADE to do more before it's too late for young people like your son and my Josh..!!

 

Bee

Edited by Beebee

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I always performed badly in English in school exams.

 

During the class I would be fine as a lot of the English lesson were focused on grammar and I was good at that as it was structured, but there was never a grammar part in exams.

 

My grades did start heading upward as I went through school and I ended up with 65% in my mock O level and a B in the actual exam to match this grade. Part of the reason was that now:

 

- The comprehension had multiple choice answers which made it a lot easier for me.

- One part of the exam was a "summary" and I was very good at those.

 

There was an essay too but I guess with the other parts, I only needed to scrape a pass or maybe not even quite that in it.

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Much of it is the way they phrase it and what they actually mean by it. What they mean is they want to you to use neurotypical-style communication. Aspies communicate in a different way. Neurotypicals will usually have better verbal communication skills than us, but actually we usually possess the better written communication skills, as we are likely to be more methodical, write with good structure, write clearly what we mean and include all the detail, with no ambiguity.

 

**Hi Earl we're on another site together. i think the using eye contact and the not realising when someone needs to be doing something else are my problems with communicating. If my employer wouldn't be fussed about the eye contact and the employees would be straight with me when they needed to be getting on with their work eg 'great to talk but have to get back to my work now' those problems wouldn't be problems if you get me. i tend to have poor grammar and structure to my work but that's cos I'm dyslexic rather than an aspie trait. Also i can miss out on the details because it is impossible to tell what information people need to know, eg people at a Xmas meal im organising might not realise it's at the same time as the social group would be on.

 

Their way of phrasing it sounds like no adjustments would be made, and you need to fit exactly into their way of doing things. I find the following to be a far better way to phrase things:

 

"Needs to be able to communicate effectively with other members of the team in order to work together towards a common goal and be able to document their ideas clearly".

 

What needs to be done for a business perspective. Sounds reasonable enough to me in order to get the work done.

 

i think what you've said is what they mean though.

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Yes, Beebee, it is a worry, isn't it. As they get older the options and opportunities seem to narrow even further until there is nothing left for them but their bedroom, I fear. Well, this is my greatest worry really, but we're not having to face it this year at least. :tearful:

 

 

 

It's tricky. My lad is very intelligent, got A's in all three of the sciences but, when it comes to expressing himself on paper, he is horrendous. His writing, for one thing, is more like a six year-olds and he got an E in English, just because he is so poor at putting his thoughts down on paper. It seems such a waste, that he won't get a chance to show off his talents or to fulfill his potential because he just hasn't the skills that others have to get past the first hurdle even. Face-to-face, he can be very unresponsive too and just doesn't come across well. In an interview, the interviewer might be forgiven for thinking that he wasn't even listening to what he was saying, he looks totally switched off and doesn't engage at all. I fear for his future, I really do. :tearful:

 

~ Mel ~

 

Would this be a problem if he could use a computer to communicate? I mean written communication.

NAS are doing a campaign called Great Expectations

http://www.autism.org.uk/en-gb/get-involved/campaign-for-change/our-campaigns/great-expectations.aspx

 

not sure if it is more of a school type of campaign though.

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Hi,

 

 

 

I must say, this does really worry me. My lad is nearly 18 and will pretty soon be starting to look for work. I know he'd do a good job at whatever job he was able to get, he's honest and consciencious, but I seriously doubt he'd get past any interview. He just doesn't have the verbal skills, his writing is horrendous and he's not able to explain himself or put himself across well. There's no way he'd be able to compete with NT applicants and it's a serious concern that no employer would even be willing to give him a chance just by looking at him. As I said, he would do a good job, but I'm seriously worried he'll never get the chance to.

 

~ Mel ~

Hi, This is why my eldest son 33 yrs set up his own IT business he tried working for other people but it wasnt suitable im trying not to think about my youngest and work for futirehes the same as his elder brother obssessed with pc it will all work out in the end......lindy

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The thing is although jobs are advertised as looking for someone with excellent communication skills etc, half of the people who are recruited to these positions don't have particularly great skills in those areas. They are just good at convincing the interviewers that they have them.

 

It annoys me too that so many jobs put this in their adverts. For many jobs it is really important to have these skills but not for all of them who ask for it. Years ago when it was just as important to have good communication skills it wasn't a buzz term that appeared in every job ad.

Edited by highlandcow

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