Advice for a 10yr old hiding and smearing feces

[spudulika]

Hi again everyone. As you may know my son was diagnosed with Aspergers during the summer. In many ways this has actually made life easier for us as we constantly learning new ways to cope with whatever it throws at us.

 

My main problem now is the fact that he smears poo over his bedroom wall, on the bed covers and mattress and hides his mess behind the bed or the TV in his room. We have tried everything we can think of to deal with this. The doctor says that there is no reason for it, his bowels are perfectly normal and scans have confirmed this. It has been happening for a few years but there could be a break in this behaviour for some months before it starts up again. We have done everything from being cross with him, trying to reason with him, trying to be sympathetic and even ignoring it. We have always made him remove the mess and clean what he could from the walls. The amount of times I have had to take to his mattress with a toothbrush, some vanish and daz.

 

My last idea was that if nothing was stopping him from doing it then we would provide a bin with a lid and some babywipes and that he could put his mess in there and clean himself up and put the wipes in there too. He seen me crying as I was scrubbing the mattress and seemed very determined to make the bin idea work. He knows that it isnt right to do that and that its not fair on us having to clean up what he cant, but yet he cant explain why he does it. He says he dosnt want to do it and I asked him if he enjoyed doing it and he said no. He said it just happens and he dosnt feel it, he then gets embarrassed and hides it. He does also go to the toilet to do motions, but you can see that he has tried to clean himself and the toilet but just makes it worse. The fact that he can go sometimes is what confuses me. Does he really not know that he has to do it until it comes or is it something deeper? I also pointed out to him that although he may be embarrassed to tell us, its surely better than him hiding and smearing it and then getting into trouble and having to be called in to pick it up? I have also said that if he tells us when it has just happened that he wont get into any kind of trouble and we wont be angry with him at all. He knows the hiding and smearing makes us angry but I dont think that he is using it as a reaction technique. I may be wrong though.

 

I cleaned his mattress this evening and made him pick it up the actual mess and explained that I was angry and upset that he let it happen again when he promised he wouldnt. I explained that I felt hurt by it, he understands that. He has also been told that this is his last chance and if it happens again and he dosnt use the bin and tell us then his xbox will be taken away. We have tried this before and it didnt work, but I will try anything again if I think it will help.

 

You know it has happened even without seeing the smears because you can smell it, I can even smell it off him. It used to be bad because he point blank refused to go to the bath and would physically fight with us, this is now slowly getting better. I am embarrassed for anyone coming into the house as Im sure they can smell it too (its not a big house and his room is right at the top of the stairs, the front door is directly at the bottom) and Im embarrassed for him if he has any friends over as Im sure they can tell. Im at my wits end and Im certain that its only a matter of time before I really loose my temper with him over it as this is the last thing I want. Anyone who could give me advice on this no matter how small would be greatly appreciated.

[Suze]

I have no experience of this but just wanted to say that your doing everything that I would have done in the same situation.I don,t know what else you could try.Perhaps the DR could refer you on to a CAMHS nurse .It sounds like he does,nt do this anywhere else but at home.Does he ever do a pooh anywhere else and use the toilet properly?...........what happens if your are on holiday?

[Kathryn]

A tough situation to be in and I'm not sure I would have coped with it as well as you seem to have done. As Suze says, you appear to have tried all the obvious solutions: give yourself credit that some things have improved a bit, but there is obviously a long way to go and there is a limit to what you can cope with. I don't think it would do too much harm to lose your temper, I think it's important for your son to see the natural consequence of his behaviour and how difficult it is for you.

 

If your son really has no control over this behaviour and consequences aren't working, as Suze says, this may be the time to seek further help through referral to Camhs or another professional such as a clinical psychologist. It's important that your son gets help and you get the help to support him before your morale and your own health suffer.

 

K x

[lindy2017]

Hi again everyone. As you may know my son was diagnosed with Aspergers during the summer. In many ways this has actually made life easier for us as we constantly learning new ways to cope with whatever it throws at us.

 

My main problem now is the fact that he smears poo over his bedroom wall, on the bed covers and mattress and hides his mess behind the bed or the TV in his room. We have tried everything we can think of to deal with this. The doctor says that there is no reason for it, his bowels are perfectly normal and scans have confirmed this. It has been happening for a few years but there could be a break in this behaviour for some months before it starts up again. We have done everything from being cross with him, trying to reason with him, trying to be sympathetic and even ignoring it. We have always made him remove the mess and clean what he could from the walls. The amount of times I have had to take to his mattress with a toothbrush, some vanish and daz.

 

My last idea was that if nothing was stopping him from doing it then we would provide a bin with a lid and some babywipes and that he could put his mess in there and clean himself up and put the wipes in there too. He seen me crying as I was scrubbing the mattress and seemed very determined to make the bin idea work. He knows that it isnt right to do that and that its not fair on us having to clean up what he cant, but yet he cant explain why he does it. He says he dosnt want to do it and I asked him if he enjoyed doing it and he said no. He said it just happens and he dosnt feel it, he then gets embarrassed and hides it. He does also go to the toilet to do motions, but you can see that he has tried to clean himself and the toilet but just makes it worse. The fact that he can go sometimes is what confuses me. Does he really not know that he has to do it until it comes or is it something deeper? I also pointed out to him that although he may be embarrassed to tell us, its surely better than him hiding and smearing it and then getting into trouble and having to be called in to pick it up? I have also said that if he tells us when it has just happened that he wont get into any kind of trouble and we wont be angry with him at all. He knows the hiding and smearing makes us angry but I dont think that he is using it as a reaction technique. I may be wrong though.

 

I cleaned his mattress this evening and made him pick it up the actual mess and explained that I was angry and upset that he let it happen again when he promised he wouldnt. I explained that I felt hurt by it, he understands that. He has also been told that this is his last chance and if it happens again and he dosnt use the bin and tell us then his xbox will be taken away. We have tried this before and it didnt work, but I will try anything again if I think it will help.

 

You know it has happened even without seeing the smears because you can smell it, I can even smell it off him. It used to be bad because he point blank refused to go to the bath and would physically fight with us, this is now slowly getting better. I am embarrassed for anyone coming into the house as Im sure they can smell it too (its not a big house and his room is right at the top of the stairs, the front door is directly at the bottom) and Im embarrassed for him if he has any friends over as Im sure they can tell. Im at my wits end and Im certain that its only a matter of time before I really loose my temper with him over it as this is the last thing I want. Anyone who could give me advice on this no matter how small would be greatly appreciated.

Hi, Im not sure what you can do to make it bettter but my son whos 12 does make a mess in the toilet doesntlike to go and usally its once a week he does like baths have to persuade him says the water is sore on his skin.....im waiting for dx think he has aspergers will find out next wednesday hopefully.....t hey dont seem to see the need with hygiene i know about the embassement ...hope he eventually sees how it would be uch better for all of you . soon linda

[spudulika]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I'm not aware of him doing this elsewhere, what he does hide always seems to be smallish hard lumps so its possible that it may not stain his hands every time so he may well hide it without us being aware. I have no complaints from school but I have never mentioned this aspect of his difficulties with them, theres not too many people that I have told due to the nature of it. He does use the toilet and while he dosnt like other peoples toilets he will now use them. He used to have a really bad phobia of using other toilets and I can remember being on holiday in Canada when he was 5 he quite obviously had to use the toilet but just held it in. We got to day 10 and we had to hold him on the toilet until he went. Hes not too bad now and will use other toilets if necessary but hates public toilets or toilets in a cafe ect, he says its the noise of it he dislikes. It seems to be the toilets with the extractor fans going constantly or that turn on when the light is put on, he will use them if someone is able to go in with him. He has suffered very badly with constipation in the past and found it very very hard to go, he would be in such pain and when he finally managed it you could see why it hurt him. It would have hurt a full grown adult!! I dont know if this is relevant to whats happening now, but its a possibility.

 

He used to hide it in the computer room too and behind the TV in the livingroom but now it just seems to be behind the TV in his bedroom and behind the bed. He does see a guy called Peter from CAMH's and we have an appointment on the 22nd with him again. Peter has told us that now he has the dx that they dont normally deal with kids who just have aspergers so there is a good possibility he will be discharged. I dont understand this at all and it really scares the hell out of me as since the dx we have had no idea what to do now or where to go or what we can do to get the extra support my son needs. Peter is pretty certain that he has a mild case of tourettes too. He would twitch his mouth and head when he is talking and his hand would go up to his ear, he seems unaware that he is doing this and when its pointed out he will say that he dosnt know why it happens and he cant control it. This dosnt happen all the time. The twitches could disapear for weeks and then start up again. Peter has said that if he gets diagnosed with this then he will be able to keep seeing him. I feel that if CAMH's were to withdraw from him then it would set all the progress he has made back a step or two.

 

I requested a call back from my GP this morning (its almost impossible to get an appointment) and explained what was going on. There are a few options, one is giving him something similar to a mini enema which I said no to straight away, I explained that you would literately have to tie him up and knock him out before he would agree to that. The other option is giving him a medicine which would fully empty his bowels so we can be certain there is nothing remaining in there and he isnt constipated (I have only recently found out it is possibly to be very badly constipated while still going to the loo) and the next option is lactluose just to soften things up and keep them moving. We have agreed to try this first before anything more drastic. If none of these work then it looks like its a matter of him being refereed for more tests so we can be sure there is no problems with his bowel. I will sit down with him tomorrow and explain what the doctor has said. He is terrified of hospitals and tests so hopefully if it is something that he is in control of then the fear of this will stop him. If it really is out of his hands and he cant stop it happening then the tests will be necessary no matter what.

 

Thanks again and if anyone has anymore advice I would gladly take it.

 

*A reply directly to Linda*

 

Linda, up until a couple of weeks ago we were only getting K into the bath once a week. He is getting to an age now where a quick wipe with the facecloth just isnt enough and I even dreadded hugging him as his hair really stank. He refused to get it cut until we threatened to shave it off with clippers. I have became much more insistant that he gets bathed and will not take no for an answer. He hates the shower. I now leave him to it and let him wash himself, I make him do it twice and always check him. If he does it right then I dont need to rewash him. He used to tell us that he didnt care if he was smelly, he didnt care that his hair was dirty and sticking to his head, even trying to explain that he would eventually loose friends over it didnt make a difference. He didnt seem worried about anyone calling him names We have tried so many things for the hair washing and none of which worked. Getting him to lie back and put his head in the water, getting him to tilt his head back and pouring water over his head, swimming goggles, those headband things to keep the water out of his eyes, nothing worked. I always used to scold him if he dropped a towel in the bath but this one evening I was upstairs while he carried on, when I came down the towel was in the bath but he had the hair washed and rinsed. He told me that he used the towel, he just soaked it, set it on his head, rubbed, and kept doing that till there was no suds left. He was worried that I would shout at him about the towel. I didnt mention it until his next bath, when I threw the towel in myself, he looked so confused till I told him that if it meant he was able to wash his hair then I was ok with it. We have went from a bath once a week to having a bath every other day, every 3rd day at most and while he is still not happy about it he has learnt that if he does it all himself and does it right then we dont need to help him and that is what he is most happy about. Im not sure if any of this will help with your child, but I have told you just incase it might do. This is a battle that has been ongoing for about 7years and its only now that we have realised a solution. Its still not perfect but then again, is there really such a thing? And the main thing is I have a son who looks and smells clean.

[Suze]

Feel for youover this it must be very difficult.I,m shocked camhs will discharge him if its a dx of aspergers.I,d try to push for continual help , particularly regarding the toileting and toureetes .Lactulose tastes really yucky , so good luck with that one , think your doing the right thing though.If you get any underlying constipation problems sorted then hopefully toileting might be easier.Would he use a commode in his room??...if the toilet is the problem...might be a small step in the right direction and an alternative to all the smearing and mess, best wishes suzex

[rrbrown114]

Hi although I'm sorry for you having to go through this, I'm also comforted by the knowledge that I'm not the only one. My 6 year old does this and almost exactly the same way your son does. I'm at a loss. I've tried everything and I really don't know what to do. Please keep me updated and let me know if you find anything that works and I will do the same if I find any method that is effective. Thank you for sharing your story and letting others as myself not feel so alone in this and hopefully together we can find a solution that works.

[Sally44]

Has your son been assessed by an occupational therapist?

 

My son does not smear, but he has a Sensory processing Disorder [which is often co-morbid with an ASD], and that means the sensory processes are not working as they should and it is variable day by day and throughout the day. So my son can use the toilet fine. But he often tells me he cannot tell if he needs a wee or a poo, so if he is standing and then poo starts to come he panics. He has also wet himself because he was distracted/focused on something like TV or a computer game and just did not feel it.

 

Our sensory system is working as it should do. We process incoming and internal sensory information and react accordingly. If you cannot feel the need to go to the loo, then you are not going to go to the toilet are you. And by the time the sensory sensation is processed and recognised, it maybe too late.

 

My son has a sensory diet and a sensory integration programme which is carried out by an OT using all kinds of equipment.

 

I think you have to go with he idea that it is not his fault. If he says he cannot feel it, then he cannot feel it. If it happens at certain times of the day ie. not in school, but at home when he is totally absorbed with TV or computer, then get him to wear some pull-ups, or ask him every 30 mins/hour to pause the TV/Computer for a minute or two to see if he does need the loo. You will need to do this, he probably won't manage to do this himself because if he is too absorbed to recognise the need for the loo, then he is likely not to recognise the need to check the time - if he can tell the time.

 

Would a social story, repeated often, and a picture chart of what to do [maybe initially calling you so that you can supervise him changing himself]. And maybe rather than punishment for failure, use rewards for success, so start with a chart where he gains points every time he uses the bin, with an agreed reward he is aiming for.

 

Can you get disposable mattress covers for the bed.

 

Also claim Disability Living Allowance, because you can offset the cost of mattress covers, sheets etc with the money you would get from DLA for incontinence problems. Get a benefits advice agency or CAB to help you complete the form.

 

Does he soil himself in school?

 

Does your son seem over or under sensitive to sensory information with sight, sound, smell, taste, balance and co-ordination eg. does he hate bright light, or notice minute details, or not see things, does he run or cover his ears when you put he vaccum on or does he appear deaf when you call his name, does he like having his hair washed/cut/combed and his nails cut, does he refuse certain tastes and textures of food, or does he eat anything or lick things that are not even food items, is his balance good, can he ride a bike, climb a tree, tie his shoelaces?

 

Does he recognise when he is hungry, thirsty, needs he loo or is it variable. My son can not eat all day, or be hungry all the time, or not drink, or drink to the point he vomits, and his using the toilet is good when he recognises the need to go.

Edited July 16, 2012 by Sally44

[Isobel]

Looking at this from a fellow asperger's point of view, I can see where he's coming from with his difficulties with public toilets. I've never been as bad as him, I'm quite high functioning, and certainly mum has never mentioned me doing this sort of thing as a young child, but I have a minor similar problem. At college, I used to avoid going if I could hold it, just because I felt embarrassed, until I got home. I now do go to the toilet at work, but I still find it embarrassing when I need to go. Toilets on aeroplanes really scared me as the toilets on them would flush so loud I'd either avoid flushing them or just wait if I knew I could hold it.

I do get constipated, but I think that's from a number of different factors such as my medication for a different medical problem.

[Sally44]

I think that if he has been constipated in he past that would possibly/probably caused anxiety around going to the toilet.

 

My son has OCD and has alot of fears around germs and contamination in toilets. This is a huge problem for him at the moment. He insists on completely stripping and will not get dressed again until he has washed his hands. So he cannot use public toilets at the moment. He has to use just disabled toilets and have an adult with him with wipes, hand gel etc.

 

My son also struggles with the hand dryers and the noise they make. It is the suddeness of it that really scares him.

 

Interesting about the washing problems. Sounds like a sensory issue. I also could not get my son into the bath. It took alot of time getting him to wash his own hair and rinse it. He too used to just leave it because it was just too much fear and anxiety and pain around having to try to wash it himself. Then his OCD fears increased and he was never out of the bath, with repeated baths and 'final rinse' showers, and then touching something trying to get out the bath or bathroom and 'contaminating himself' again and have to go through it all again. And changing his clothes so often that he could get through a complete wardrobe full of clothes/underwear in an evening. Which made me long for the times he would refuse to bath! Especially when I am awake at 2.00am in the morning having to supervise him having yet another shower. For me, this has been the most difficult time ever. He was even refusing to eat food I had prepared because I was contaminated, and therefore had contaminated his food.

 

Medication has worked. Prozac was no good. Sertraline has helped alot. Not suggesting you need that. But although I agree that our children do need to see the consequences of what they do. We also need to consider that we are not living the nightmare that they maybe experiencing or the intrusive obsessive/compulsive thoughts and fears they have. My son and I have spent a number of times in tears. Him so remorseful and upset at the work he is causing me, and yet unable to stop washing and unable to sleep until he is clean. It really affects their self esteem when they cannot control it and stop it.

 

So no magic wand. Just try to get him to verbalise or explain what his fears/worries are around all these issues, and talk to him about what he could suggest that would help and try to find out how driven he is by his thoughts and his actions and does he feel able to control and alter them.

 

I'm not suggesting he has OCD type thoughts, but if that is the case, then the whole point is that it is not something you can reason with. It is based on a fear that if you don't do x, y and z you will become contaminated, ill and die, or someone you know will die. And that is the actual level of fear. It isn't something you can reason with yourself and say "don't be silly, that won't happen." Your brain and your belief system is such that you think it will happen. Hence the compulsions to carry out certain behaviour.