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darkshine

Acceptance

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I don't know how many people have heard the whole "5 stages of grief" theory... but I feel like I'm going through something similar regarding my dx of AS several months ago.

 

The stages are:

 

1. Denial

2. Anger

3. Bargaining

4. Depression

5. Acceptance

 

It hasn't gone in that order for me and there's been a bit of jumping around... denial did come first, then anger, then depression, then denial again, a period of nailing down facts with the psychiatrist (bargaining) then I joined this forum, anger returned a few more times, along with more bargaining with the psychiatrist (and possibly on here I don't know though) and more denial and depression.

 

Pretty exhausting, especially since what I've listed is a brief run-through (I didn't see the point in making this post unnecessarily long).

 

So I am left with acceptance still to go - and you know what? Even though I'm on here nearly every day, I'm still not sure I accept the dx, still not convinced, if I'm honest I don't want to accept it.

 

I've struggled with acceptance in a lot of areas in my life, but especially with myself, I have a massive difficulty with accepting myself.

 

Is this something I can fix or learn to do - and how would I do that?

 

Its probably the hardest thing for me to do - to ask this for myself - and not an easy thing to even ask about, it goes against everything I believe, its like trying to learn the opposite of now, I need the opposite of disgust, hate, inferiority, wrongness, badness, insignificance, worthlessness, nothing.

 

I want to learn to be something, to feel as though I'm somebody, not a nobody. I want to feel as though I deserve to be alive.

 

A pretty big ask isn't it... I'll add a smiley to lighten the mood ----> :)

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None of my diagnoses apart from 'just depression' have caused me to go through those stages.

In fact i have only been through the last 2.

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I think what you describe is very, very normal...it is certainly true for parents after a child is diagnosed with special needs.

 

Whereas with grief the natural progression is to the acceptance stage, I read that for parents - and perhaps the diagnosed person too - there is a much more fluid movement between the stages, that can continue for a long time, especially during periods of difficulty or regression. Ultimately though people find themselves in the acceptance stage for longer and longer periods.

 

This pattern has certainly happened for me as a parent of an adult with special needs, and I would also say for myself too post-dx. Simply put, it all takes time. I am in a very different place over my son's dx now than I was 16 years ago when it happened aged 6, and the same for myself 4 years post-dx.

 

HTH

 

Bridget :)

Edited by bid

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None of my diagnoses apart from 'just depression' have caused me to go through those stages.

In fact i have only been through the last 2.

From what I can tell, the vast majority of adults seem to feel relief after diagnosis, I'm sure they feel other things too, but I think maybe the relief is what makes acceptance come easier - not sure - but it kinda makes sense

 

I just noticed that they way I have been thinking and even behaving, is very similar to the grief stages - I guess everyone handles things differently :unsure:

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I think what you describe is very, very normal...it is certainly true for parents after a child is diagnosed with special needs.

 

Whereas with grief the natural progression is to the acceptance stage, I read that for parents - and perhaps the diagnosed person too - there is a much more fluid movement between the stages, that can continue for a long time, especially during periods of difficulty or regression. Ultimately though people find themselves in the acceptance stage for longer and longer periods.

 

This pattern has certainly happened for me as a parent of an adult with special needs, and I would also say for myself too post-dx. Simply put, it all takes time. I am in a very different place over my son's dx now than I was 16 years ago when it happened aged 6, and the same for myself 4 years post-dx.

 

HTH

 

Bridget smile.gif

I've struggled to reply - thought I'd just come out and say that straight away - its because my reply is a little mixed, but there's nothing for it, I'll have to put a mixed reply (its what I'd like to say) so please forgive me jumping around a little :D

 

Thank you - I mean that, cuz maybe there's hope one day - but at the same time...

 

 

Oh no! - I'm the most impatient person in the world! and 4 - 16 years!!

 

 

I have definitely struggled in the area of "acceptance" throughout my life, and coping while struggling to accept things is kinda hard, especially when coping isn't one of my best skills either.

 

What do you think helped you to accept things?

 

And do you think its possible to learn acceptance as a skill?

 

Best

 

Darkshine

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It is a process that takes time.

I think coming to terms with a diagnosis is similar to, yet different from grief.

When my father died I went through grief. But it was different from when my child was diagnosed.

With a diagnosis you do go through grief. Yet you are still left with the uncertainty of the future and how your child will cope, and what they will be like, and will they make progress etc.

With my own child I felt that every time we had to accept failure, it took me into another grief process.

Then he would learn something new, or achieve something great and it would be brilliant.

Then a year or two later we might get another diagnosis, or another school placement failure.

 

Grief for someone who has died is more concrete. Grief for someone who is alive is much more fluid.

 

I used to feel it was like being at a fairground, where I would have a period of 'normality', and then I would get on a rollercoaster ride again.

 

I suspect that the mood swings lessen with time, and as you find yourself in a good place. That is probably due to both acceptance and knowledge of your own strengths and weaknesses.

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I think I understand what you mean, death is kinda final. Concrete - as you put it. And by contrast, living has to be more fluid.

 

Achievements don't mean much to me, and I guess this doesn't help either, it just makes everything a series of disappointments.

 

You know what? If someone I loved got diagnosed with something, anything, it doesn't matter what, I think I could somehow find the strength to look after them, to make things easier, to help them, I'd find some way through the bad stuff and try to enjoy every pinpoint of achievement and hope. But for myself? I can't. I can't make myself believe I'm worth it.

 

That's why I'm curious about acceptance - and clearly other people find things hard to accept too - but how? (other than the passing of time) What made it possible? What did you do?

 

Sorry for lots of questions :oops:

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What do you mean by "achievements don't mean that much to me".

 

Do you mean you don't think you 'achieve' or 'succeed'?

 

Or do you mean that emotionally you feel nothing?

 

Do you think you recognise and focus on the things that do disappoint you, that you do recognise as different or as a personal failure?

 

I know my own son is like that.

 

Professionals talk alot about those on the spectrum not being able to "generalise skills".

 

With my son we've recently been talking about the fact that he does not seem to be able to "generalise success".

 

By that we mean [by "we" I mean the therapy team at his new school], that even when he does achieve something he may not recognise it. He also does not get that emotional boost from achieving it unless it is specifically pointed out to him.

 

He is also extremely anxious. And his success at things does not seem to transfer to the next time he has to attempt something. It is as though he has not learnt anything from his ability to suceed or achieve a certain thing, and therefore his anxiety is at the same high level when he approaches the next task or event.

 

Psychologically it is also very easy to get into a negative mind set when things are difficult on a day to day basis.

 

If you are able to recognise your successes, or can connect your emotions to events I have a suggestion.

 

What if you had a note book with you, and the only thing you write in it are positive things.

 

Eg. Had to go shopping today. Felt very nervous about it. But I went into the shop, got my stuff and came out. Everything went well and I felt good about it.

 

If you write these things down, they become concrete and something you can refer to to remind you of what you have done and how you felt about it.

 

If we tell ourselves everyday that we are rubbish, then that is what we believe about ourselves.

 

If we tell ourselves everyday that we are a good person and that we can feel good and can do things, then we start to feel success. And success breeds success because it begins to help with self confidence and self esteem. So you may take more chances, and do stuff you might otherwise avoid, and you maybe able to sit down and read your notebook and feel proud about yourself.

 

How do we get to acceptance??

 

I think it is a journey. How long is different for every person. If the notebook idea works for you, I would expect that over time you would recognise the things that you struggled with and accepted that it was part of who you are. It isn't your fault. You aren't a bad person. You just struggle with x, y and z, in the same way that another person might struggle to do some of the things that you find quite easy to do.

 

What is it particularly about yourself or your diagnosis that you find hard to accept?

 

I know a diagnosis can be a very black and white thing. You've ticked enough boxes in enough categories, therefore you receive a diagnosis. But everyone on the spectrum is different.

 

Again, we were talking about my son and how he does have some imagination to be able to use objects and make games out of them. He can come up with ideas for new games. Infact one of his ideas was adopted by his local Cubs group as a new game they would play.

 

But he does not have imagination in predicting outcomes. So that is where alot of his anxiety comes from. What he is going to have to do. With whom. Will he achieve it. He starts to ask lots and lots of questions and gets tearful. He can't make choices. He just gets thrown into confusion and cannot mentally imagine the things he needs to be able to think through to enable him to make that choice.

 

So in some areas he has very good imagination - probably if you could measure it, around low average. But in other areas he has no imagination at all - only anxiety - which often gets totally out of control and causes him to refuse to engage at all. That makes him feel very bad and makes him try to avoid the same situation again.

 

And who wouldn't try to avoid stuff that made you feel that bad? But with lots of explanations, support and allowing him to have things with him that make him feel good, he is now agreeing to have a go. He often initially refuses, but if we give him about a day to think it over and come to terms with the idea, he is often coming round to agreeing to try it.

 

He has now agreed to go to his school christmas party - only a couple of months ago he was refusing to go out into the playground to play with any other child. This christmas party is slightly different [more ASD friendly] eg. they are having a disco, but for those children that do not want that, they have the option of watching a film together and playing board games in the classroom. And that is what he has chosen to do.

 

For Christmas dinner they have allowed him to have two options ie. he said he would have the Christmas dinner, minus turkey, but he was very anxious about "what it would look like". So they've also allowed him to have a "standby" cheese sandwich. And he knows that. Which has removed his anxiety about "what will I eat if I don't like my dinner". And these are things that other people just do automatically eg. I think i'll have xxx to eat, but if I don't fancy that i'll have xxxx instead. He can't come to that decision himself, without support.

 

So if there are things about your diagnosis "description" that you feel do not fit you, then maybe that is true. But there maybe other aspects in the same skill set that do affect you.

 

Don't know if that helps at all??

Edited by Sally44

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I can't seem to quote on my phone any more...

 

To use your example of the shopping Sally, I wouldn't feel good that I had done it. If anything, I would feel bad because I had struggled to do such a 'normal' thing. Does that make any sense?

 

(null)

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I can't seem to quote on my phone any more...

 

To use your example of the shopping Sally, I wouldn't feel good that I had done it. If anything, I would feel bad because I had struggled to do such a 'normal' thing. Does that make any sense?

 

(null)

 

That is why I asked about whether the focus was on the "negative" or on the "achievement".

 

It is the same as the question about a half filled cup. Do you see it as half full, or half empty.

 

If you can start to think about the good things, or positive things it will make you feel better. If you only think about what you struggle with, or what you fail to do/achieve, then that is going to make you feel more low, and less likely to do anything.

 

Try to find something good or positive about yourself every day. That will make you feel better and happier about yourself. It is something you will have to make an effort to do every day until it becomes more automatic.

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I'd just like to say that I'm going to reply - have just been thinking... my gut reaction is negativity and I'm trying to be more open-minded - but its harder and is taking a while :D

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I've only gone thru the last 2 also..

*bargaining with my shrink to get tested.. for I needed to know (first one diagnosed in the family and my brother having even more signs and troubles,

but no will to get tested.. if I have it, hé definitly has!)

*acceptance.. it was a relief, I finally got myself in some quirky mannerism :D

 

I had a great psychiatrist as for the diagnosis, she saw eye to eye on my views on the whole matter (as for sensory problems, the stress accumulating, diff levels of stress, some fitting the DSM IV criteria with AS, more problems than possible borderline/mcdd/schizophrenic/etc - which explains the mis-diagnosis or overlooked diagnosis of the underlying problem...)

Edited by butterfly73

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Later that same week,,,,,

 

Sorry its taken me a while to reply - like I said before - dunno if you saw that :lol: I don't want to be negative so needed a window of time when I feel I can respond a bit better - not the best window as I'm freezing to death - but my mind is calm so here goes - please forgive the million quotes - there's too much to keep context without :D

 

What do you mean by "achievements don't mean that much to me".

 

Do you mean you don't think you 'achieve' or 'succeed'?

 

Or do you mean that emotionally you feel nothing?

 

Do you think you recognise and focus on the things that do disappoint you, that you do recognise as different or as a personal failure?

I have definitely focused on the failures in my life much more than any "successes" - the things other people I know think I achieve - are not achievements in my mind. Things that everyone else I know can do, that I struggle to do, just don't seem like achievements, it just seems like I'm slower/stupider, because I can't do them.

 

They don't mean much because the people I know do not praise each other for doing them, so why praise me? Like remembering to eat - I find this really hard - impossible sometimes because even if I do remember, I can then stand there in an invisible battle with the cupboards/fridge as I cannot decide what to eat a lot of the time either. But I don't count it as an achievement when I do manage it because to even say it is, would sound hollow and meaningless because I know the people in my life don't struggle. So yeah, personal failure is about right :)

 

 

 

Professionals talk alot about those on the spectrum not being able to "generalise skills".

 

With my son we've recently been talking about the fact that he does not seem to be able to "generalise success".

 

By that we mean [by "we" I mean the therapy team at his new school], that even when he does achieve something he may not recognise it. He also does not get that emotional boost from achieving it unless it is specifically pointed out to him.

 

He is also extremely anxious. And his success at things does not seem to transfer to the next time he has to attempt something. It is as though he has not learnt anything from his ability to suceed or achieve a certain thing, and therefore his anxiety is at the same high level when he approaches the next task or event.

 

I don't get that emotional boost either, not for what other people call achievements - and for me, generalising is difficult - its cuz each event is separate, the factors are different each time, and experience has shown me I can't repeatedly do a task well every time.

 

I sometimes get a boost when do something that I know people will be pleased with me for doing... but that doesn't last long, and doesn't seem relevant :unsure:

 

 

 

Psychologically it is also very easy to get into a negative mind set when things are difficult on a day to day basis.

 

If you are able to recognise your successes, or can connect your emotions to events I have a suggestion.

 

What if you had a note book with you, and the only thing you write in it are positive things.

 

Eg. Had to go shopping today. Felt very nervous about it. But I went into the shop, got my stuff and came out. Everything went well and I felt good about it.

 

If you write these things down, they become concrete and something you can refer to to remind you of what you have done and how you felt about it.

 

If we tell ourselves everyday that we are rubbish, then that is what we believe about ourselves.

 

If we tell ourselves everyday that we are a good person and that we can feel good and can do things, then we start to feel success. And success breeds success because it begins to help with self confidence and self esteem. So you may take more chances, and do stuff you might otherwise avoid, and you maybe able to sit down and read your notebook and feel proud about yourself.

 

I've definitely got stuck in a negative mind-set - but whenever I tell myself I've achieved something, or just done ok, it feels like I'm lying - once, a psychologist said I had too higher standards, this might be another unhelpful thing.

 

I actually did try this a few years back, even though it felt like lying, I kept it up for about 3 months maybe - but I couldn't stop the words from sounding sarcastic - maybe I didn't do it long enough...

 

How do we get to acceptance??

 

 

I think it is a journey. How long is different for every person. If the notebook idea works for you, I would expect that over time you would recognise the things that you struggled with and accepted that it was part of who you are. It isn't your fault. You aren't a bad person. You just struggle with x, y and z, in the same way that another person might struggle to do some of the things that you find quite easy to do.

 

What is it particularly about yourself or your diagnosis that you find hard to accept?

 

I know a diagnosis can be a very black and white thing. You've ticked enough boxes in enough categories, therefore you receive a diagnosis. But everyone on the spectrum is different.

Maybe I could try the notebook idea again, give it another go - I will give it more thought :)

 

The particular parts of myself I struggle to accept is how I look, who, what and how I am as a person, I struggle to accept the fact that I struggle with things that people I see in my life don't struggle with.

 

Accepting the dx is hard because I'm angry that I was in denial about the whole process, I don't really understand fully what it means, many things about it are confusing - like why does it make a difference. And when people say that "everyone has some traits", and that when I've asked if a problem I have is to do with AS they say no a lot, and that I essentially don't look any different so its like an invisible thing - as long as I keep my mouth shut and don't do anything I appear normal - which is just confusing - because then I realise loads of things I'd never noticed, that other people do notice, and it makes me feel like an idiot for not having self awareness properly - so its sorta like BAM with all this info that doesn't really make sense when I try to define it.

 

So if someone said "why do you have AS" (as in what things mean you got dx'd) I really couldn't give an answer that would make sense, they'd just say that they do/have that thing too, or that everyone does.

 

It shouldn't make a difference but my parents deny the dx, it has certainly made it harder to find out more about when I was a kid, but its impossible to discuss, especially since they have now rewritten history to include a defensive rose-tinted view of everything, with a side order of "we did our best" in a tone that makes me believe they feel guilty and are in denial.

 

The psychiatrist who did the dx - over at least 4 appointments - one to two hours each time, including one with my parents, he wrote a 7 page report for the results, he outlined areas of deficit or something like that, and under each heading was long lists of examples from present, recent past and childhood - and at the end it said about having future appointments on how to enable me to manage my difficulties.

 

It just makes me panic even more about the future and what will happen if I don't learn to be normal quicker - sounds stupid doesn't it?

 

 

Again, we were talking about my son and how he does have some imagination to be able to use objects and make games out of them. He can come up with ideas for new games. Infact one of his ideas was adopted by his local Cubs group as a new game they would play.

 

But he does not have imagination in predicting outcomes. So that is where alot of his anxiety comes from. What he is going to have to do. With whom. Will he achieve it. He starts to ask lots and lots of questions and gets tearful. He can't make choices. He just gets thrown into confusion and cannot mentally imagine the things he needs to be able to think through to enable him to make that choice.

 

So in some areas he has very good imagination - probably if you could measure it, around low average. But in other areas he has no imagination at all - only anxiety - which often gets totally out of control and causes him to refuse to engage at all. That makes him feel very bad and makes him try to avoid the same situation again.

 

................

 

And who wouldn't try to avoid stuff that made you feel that bad? But with lots of explanations, support and allowing him to have things with him that make him feel good, he is now agreeing to have a go. He often initially refuses, but if we give him about a day to think it over and come to terms with the idea, he is often coming round to agreeing to try it.

 

So if there are things about your diagnosis "description" that you feel do not fit you, then maybe that is true. But there maybe other aspects in the same skill set that do affect you.

 

Don't know if that helps at all??

I also find making decisions hard, I understand your son's need to ask all those questions - and its a very good idea to have that second "what if" option covered - will have to remember that because that causes a fair few problems in my life too - if option one can't or doesn't happen, I can find it near impossible to cope with it, thankfully not in every area of my life, but particularly with plans - like your food example, if the food that was planned for dinner was found to have gone off/bad - it can take me anything up to 2 hours to think of something else to eat - and the likely outcome is that I have to have something like bread and butter because I feel so ill from not eating that I feel like I'm going to die - so force the bread and butter down :wallbash:

 

I hope that by realising these issues with your son so early in life, that things can be put in place to reduce this torture for when he is older - coping mechanisms and planning, and thinking he's doing well and stuff. Its very hard to start learning things at 30 - you sound like you'll do your best anyway, or die trying ;) I just think its good that all, that you can see these things and use them to help him, and possibly me for I will think about the things you have said. Hope he enjoys the xmas party - whatever he ends up eating :thumbs:

 

Darkshine

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I will use this as a comparison, but don't know if it will help.

 

My own mum was diagnosed with clinical depression years ago.

 

She then went through various therapies with a psychiatrist to try to find out "what" triggered the depression.

 

There were some things in her life that had been upsetting, even traumatic, but she never felt they found the "reason" for the depression and that made it very hard to cope with because all the time she was depressed she was trying to find the cause of it because she had been told that once they found the cause she would somehow be released from the clutches of depression. But that never happened.

 

Then, some years later, she was told by a different professional that her depression was not "caused" by anything. It was due to a chemical imbalance.

 

My mum said that that was like a weight lifted off her because she no longer had to find out what caused it. She no longer had to try to fight it to try to feel 'normal' as everyone else around her.

 

She finally was able to accept that her depression, which made her feel and act differently, was not due to anything that had happened to her and nothing she did was going to remove it. It was due to factors she had no control over.; chemical differences in the brain.

 

So now, when she feels depressed, she does not go on this "searching" anymore, trying to uncover whatever it was that caused it, so that she can remove it and remove the depression.

 

She just knows that it comes. It stays for a while, and then it goes again. How she feels and behaves is part of the depression and she can somehow separate herself from those feelings and recognise them as being part of the illness. She can allow herself the time needed to come out the other side.

 

I don't know if that makes sense or not.

 

Yes you may have high expectations, and you may have a need for perfection [or for things to be exactly as you expect or visualise they should be].

 

But as you have a diagnosis that you are on the spectrum, that means you do have difficulties in those areas needed under the criteria [as listed in the report from the psychiatrist]. So surely that means you will never be functioning as someone without an ASD. So why keep trying to do so? Why label yourself as stupid for things you have no control over. It isn't because you are stupid, as you plainly aren't. That is like someone in a wheelchair labelling themselves as stupid because they can't walk.

 

Rather than comparing yourself to others and trying to appear the same, could you instead recognise the things you do, and will continue to, struggle with and see if there is something that might help. For example choosing. If you think having a "plan B" might also help you, then use it. If you often find there is nothing in the fridge to eat, why not set aside some specific time eg. Thursday evening, when you sit down and write a weekly meal planner of what you will eat for Breakfast, dinner and tea on each day. Then you will know exactly what you need to buy to prepare those meals.

 

Cut yourself some slack. If you were giving advice to another person with an ASD would you be so hard on them as you are with yourself. Would you tell them they were stupid for things they could not do, or for things they struggled with.

 

Does the report from the psychiatrist give you any help on identifying HOW it affects you? I think your post also gives some good examples of things you struggle with.

 

Also try to think of the good parts of how ASD affects you, or the good parts of your personality. These things are just as important as the things you struggle with. The things you are good at are also what makes you who you are.

 

Do you know people that you think of as "kind" or "funny" "loyal" etc. Those are qualities you may find in yourself as well.

 

Have you tried to find out if there is an adult support group for those on the spectrum in your area? The National Autistic Society may know if there is?? Do you think it could be helpful for you to meet with other adults.

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What do you think helped you to accept things?

 

And do you think its possible to learn acceptance as a skill?

 

Best

 

Darkshine

 

OK, you're probably not going to like what I'm going to say helped me reach acceptance! ;)

 

First of all, Sally has given you loads of really good advice. The secret is to have as positive an approach to life as you possibly can manage (that ole' glass half full!!).

 

Secondly, looking outwards instead of constant introspection.

 

Thirdly, doing something/anything that actually benefits others.

 

And last of all, Sally is absolutely spot on when she says that you can use your dx to feel proud when you do accomplish the things you find difficult, and be gentle on yourself when you really can't manage something.

 

One very, very useful and interesting thing I found out during 9 months of counselling was this: it is a complete fallacy to say 'this is how I am, I can't change'. We can all change ourselves if we really want to, and are prepared to work hard and acknowledge sometimes uncomfortable truths about ourselves.

 

Good luck!

 

Bid :)

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One very, very useful and interesting thing I found out during 9 months of counselling was this: it is a complete fallacy to say 'this is how I am, I can't change'. We can all change ourselves if we really want to, and are prepared to work hard and acknowledge sometimes uncomfortable truths about ourselves.
For those who are parents will know..

**people with SI tend to have a very strong will.. **

that works either for us (highly skilled than, working with loads of interest, focus, dedication, loyalty, etc), or against us (very very stubborn, not open at all, etc etc) ..

It's difficult to get to the point that it works fór you.. it means being motivated and have your head, heart and will all wanting the same thing.. I usually try to challange 'my kids' so they get interested in what I and the parent are doing, otherwise it'll never work! (Hence some grown people wih AS now suffering from certain issues for having been pushed earlier in life :( )

 

First of all, a great tip I got.. no matter how negative you might feel.. address the issue in a positive way/thought/sentence!

That'll help you to address your willpower ;)

 

What's the difference?! Well.. thát is the difference!!

Elementary (my dr Watson, oh sorry ;) )

It's really very basic actually, but takes some getting used to.. there are helpful items on the internet for that :)

*try Byron Kathy for instance ;)

Mind you.. I'm not saying 'halleluyah this is it..' for it is hárd work! Day in, day out..

and for structure isn't my forté.. I manage 2 weeks at best, than relapse.. thus need to coach myself back on track, once again.. in the gentelest fashion..

 

Yep.. at least for me, I need to be loads nicer to myself, learn to put myself first instead of last (before compromising, which I do.. always.. thus still me last actually

I need to push myself in a gentle fashion..

Actually learning to be my own best friend and also treat myself (as such)

 

I'm very curious about your findings so far!

 

Love Bfly

Edited by butterfly73

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Hi Sally,

 

The explanation of your mum made total sense - I too got told I have a chemical imbalance that causes depression - but I didn't accept it :lol: sorry but I'm seeing the funny side today - its true though - I did get told that, and I do refuse to accept it - and the more I think about it, the more I realise that this problem with acceptance is operating on many levels :huh:.

 

A big :thumbs: to your mum though for being able to deal with it positively.

 

Yes you may have high expectations, and you may have a need for perfection [or for things to be exactly as you expect or visualise they should be].

 

But as you have a diagnosis that you are on the spectrum, that means you do have difficulties in those areas needed under the criteria [as listed in the report from the psychiatrist]. So surely that means you will never be functioning as someone without an ASD. So why keep trying to do so? Why label yourself as stupid for things you have no control over. It isn't because you are stupid, as you plainly aren't. That is like someone in a wheelchair labelling themselves as stupid because they can't walk.

 

Rather than comparing yourself to others and trying to appear the same, could you instead recognise the things you do, and will continue to, struggle with and see if there is something that might help. For example choosing. If you think having a "plan B" might also help you, then use it. If you often find there is nothing in the fridge to eat, why not set aside some specific time eg. Thursday evening, when you sit down and write a weekly meal planner of what you will eat for Breakfast, dinner and tea on each day. Then you will know exactly what you need to buy to prepare those meals.

 

Cut yourself some slack. If you were giving advice to another person with an ASD would you be so hard on them as you are with yourself. Would you tell them they were stupid for things they could not do, or for things they struggled with.

I guess I need to think about this a lot more... maybe see if there's some mid-ground - or ways to not make things so black and white.

 

The answer to your question is no, I wouldn't be so hard on someone else - whether they were on the spectrum or not - so I shouldn't do it to me either.

 

Does the report from the psychiatrist give you any help on identifying HOW it affects you? I think your post also gives some good examples of things you struggle with.

 

Also try to think of the good parts of how ASD affects you, or the good parts of your personality. These things are just as important as the things you struggle with. The things you are good at are also what makes you who you are.

 

Do you know people that you think of as "kind" or "funny" "loyal" etc. Those are qualities you may find in yourself as well.

 

Have you tried to find out if there is an adult support group for those on the spectrum in your area? The National Autistic Society may know if there is?? Do you think it could be helpful for you to meet with other adults.

The report does identify how it effects me, but not ways of getting around that - maybe I just haven't had enough time to understand it either - which hasn't helped - I seem to learn something new everyday - and as people regularly point out - not everyone on the spectrum is the same.

 

Other people's opinions of me and my opinions of me are almost opposites :rolleyes:

 

Thanks Sally, you've certainly given me things to think about

 

Best

 

Darkshine

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OK, you're probably not going to like what I'm going to say helped me reach acceptance! ;)

Hi Bid, its not a question of liking or not liking that matters - I'm really trying hard to stay impartial - and its a hard struggle!

 

My usual reaction would be to retaliate with a huge list trashing what people have said and pointing out how impossible it all is - but what use would that be? I asked a question and you guys have given honest and thoughtful answers, so to take the most from that I have to consider those answers and how they apply. (which is why its taking me an age to reply)

 

Also people have been kind enough to share their experience and its useful/interesting to see how other people have coped - it would be highly discourteous if I didn't at least try to understand what everyone has said :)

 

First of all, Sally has given you loads of really good advice. The secret is to have as positive an approach to life as you possibly can manage (that ole' glass half full!!).

 

Secondly, looking outwards instead of constant introspection.

 

Thirdly, doing something/anything that actually benefits others.

 

And last of all, Sally is absolutely spot on when she says that you can use your dx to feel proud when you do accomplish the things you find difficult, and be gentle on yourself when you really can't manage something.

Out of those I particularly struggle with the 1st and last. I don't constantly look inwards you know ;) its just on here I discuss some of the things that haven't been resolved, or that's on my mind so I understand how I might come across that way. I'm a big believer in volunteering, and did quite a few things before I lost control of my agoraphobia, and despite my current inability to go out, I still try to think of other people and try to help them when they need it.

 

Its just that I seem to have a block when it comes to positivity - I think its a major part of a very complicated problem - and very unhelpful too, for it impacts on almost everything I do.

 

I'm not sure I've come to terms with my dx enough to do the final thing - but I'm not writing it off - I'll put it with the other things I have to think about - I can see that it isn't going to help if I spend all my energy on torturing myself - and that there are times when it isn't my fault - so I guess I need to remember that more...

 

One very, very useful and interesting thing I found out during 9 months of counselling was this: it is a complete fallacy to say 'this is how I am, I can't change'. We can all change ourselves if we really want to, and are prepared to work hard and acknowledge sometimes uncomfortable truths about ourselves.

 

Good luck!

 

Bid :)

I totally believe that - I've been telling a fair few people in my life that very thing - and people who use it as an excuse for someone else not being able to change!

 

As for me, I've known that I can change for a few years, its just doing it that's hard - right now its hard getting through each day - there's reasons for that and its not going to stay this way forever - and one good thing about this current state of affairs is that its given me some time to be able to think a little more constructively - a few months ago this post would have been an off-topic rant that would probably have achieved very little - some rants do - but this one wouldn't have - but now its pretty clear what I asked, and people seem to understand me, and the responses are really thoughtful and useful. So I guess that's something good - when just about everything else is a real struggle - its nice to have a calmer mind for a bit.

 

It's going to take me forever to think about all this and see how I can apply it, and then make changes - I wonder if I've just gotten used to feeling rubbish so its safe... dunno if that makes sense...

 

Thanks

 

Darkshine

 

PS - I liked what you had to say :D

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For those who are parents will know..

**people with SI tend to have a very strong will.. **

that works either for us (highly skilled than, working with loads of interest, focus, dedication, loyalty, etc), or against us (very very stubborn, not open at all, etc etc) ..

It's difficult to get to the point that it works fór you.. it means being motivated and have your head, heart and will all wanting the same thing.. I usually try to challange 'my kids' so they get interested in what I and the parent are doing, otherwise it'll never work! (Hence some grown people wih AS now suffering from certain issues for having been pushed earlier in life :( )

 

First of all, a great tip I got.. no matter how negative you might feel.. address the issue in a positive way/thought/sentence!

That'll help you to address your willpower ;)

 

What's the difference?! Well.. thát is the difference!!

Elementary (my dr Watson, oh sorry ;) )

It's really very basic actually, but takes some getting used to.. there are helpful items on the internet for that :)

*try Byron Kathy for instance ;)

Mind you.. I'm not saying 'halleluyah this is it..' for it is hárd work! Day in, day out..

and for structure isn't my forté.. I manage 2 weeks at best, than relapse.. thus need to coach myself back on track, once again.. in the gentelest fashion..

 

Yep.. at least for me, I need to be loads nicer to myself, learn to put myself first instead of last (before compromising, which I do.. always.. thus still me last actually

I need to push myself in a gentle fashion..

Actually learning to be my own best friend and also treat myself (as such)

 

I'm very curious about your findings so far!

 

Love Bfly

I think my strong will has been working against me too - and the last few years feel like one long regression... I've retained enough function and speech to be able to get by - and every so often there's glimmers of my mind coming back.

 

I'm sure the recent medication change has not helped - its taken a long time to get used to the new ones and fight through some of the effects :(

 

Hope you have better luck being nice to yourself (and make a better effort at it) than me :thumbs:

 

Which findings are you curious about - I've said so much here I can't find what you are referring to :lol:

 

To me this whole thing feels like I have to find a way around all the defences I've set up over the years - I'm pretty sure that on a basic level this is to do with what is "known" and I've felt this way and worse for many many years now - 14/15 years - too long.... far too long, but maybe its just something I'm sort of used to. Which means that has to change!

 

Best

 

Darkshine

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Darkshine, since this has become a long thread, I haven't read all the replies so, as I often say, sorry if I'm repeating anything already said by others.

 

I know exactly how you feel and I relate to each of the five stages you listed. However, though I'm no doctor, your outlook is so similar to how mine was that I'm convinced you are suffering severe depression. I hope you can find the medical help you need for this. I feel sure that your state of mind has more to do with depression than with AS, even though depression might well be a secondary issue stemming from AS.

 

Regarding acceptance, ask yourself what prevents you from accepting the diagnosis. Try to envisage how you would feel if you did rationalise and accept what seems to be a certain diagnosis. I confess that I was upset and despondent when I was first diagnosed but after accepting it, things got better. Mostly through reading books about AS, I've learned a whole lot more about myself, my strengths, weaknesses and vulnerabilities, and I've been able to learn more coping skills for myself as a result. Accepting your AS doesn't mean you're in any way weaker, less able or less valuable than you were before your diagnosis. The doors that were open to you before remain open. You're still the same person and, judging from all the posts of yours that I've read, that's a good thing.

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+1 on what Adam just wrote!

 

Darkshine; Findings so far was a general question about the issue I just went into. I wasn't referring to sth in particular (as in sth mentioned earlier).

If you notice you'd need or like to change things about yourself, it might be useful to write such down for yourself, can you name certain things?

Than, a tactic I learned to use recently.. Go over the list and choose óne subject you'd like to work on.

 

How to make your choice easier?!

Stand on the floor, feet at hip-width.. go over the options slowly and listen to your body.. do you feel subtle changes in the way you stand?!

It might help to close your eyes and just follow your body motion..

 

PM me for more info on this ;-)

--now is a bit too soon to tell the rest, I need to know if this functions for you--

I will post that later anyhow

 

Love Bfly!

Edited by butterfly73

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Darkshine, since this has become a long thread, I haven't read all the replies so, as I often say, sorry if I'm repeating anything already said by others.

 

I know exactly how you feel and I relate to each of the five stages you listed. However, though I'm no doctor, your outlook is so similar to how mine was that I'm convinced you are suffering severe depression. I hope you can find the medical help you need for this. I feel sure that your state of mind has more to do with depression than with AS, even though depression might well be a secondary issue stemming from AS.

 

Regarding acceptance, ask yourself what prevents you from accepting the diagnosis. Try to envisage how you would feel if you did rationalise and accept what seems to be a certain diagnosis. I confess that I was upset and despondent when I was first diagnosed but after accepting it, things got better. Mostly through reading books about AS, I've learned a whole lot more about myself, my strengths, weaknesses and vulnerabilities, and I've been able to learn more coping skills for myself as a result. Accepting your AS doesn't mean you're in any way weaker, less able or less valuable than you were before your diagnosis. The doors that were open to you before remain open. You're still the same person and, judging from all the posts of yours that I've read, that's a good thing.

Hi Adam,

 

Thank you for your reply - I haven't read any books - I've looked things up on the internet... but when it comes to books I just can't decide which one/s to read, people have given me suggestions before, and some names come up more than others (temple grandin, donna williams and tony atwood) but I just can't decide - it also doesn't help that I don't know what "type" of book I want to read :blink: I think I prefer factual over autobiographies - but not too in-depth :P

 

The depression changes in severity, its nearly always here, sometimes I can function better, and sometimes barely at all, I think some of the depression does stem from AS, I know the depression isn't caused entirely by AS... but I don't get any help for it... I was on a CBT list but that is on hold because of a medication change I've had, they won't work with me until things are more "stable"...

 

What is really really stupid is that I cannot say why I'm struggling to accept the dx - I don't think I even know - this seems pretty dumb - even by my standards - so maybe understanding things more would be a good first step from where I am now....

 

Maybe reading some books would be a good idea - what you said seems logical - to learn more about myself, and hopefully move towards a healthier outlook of all this, and learning coping skills would be good too - like maybe taking a more active approach would be better than just being angry, upset and in denial.

 

I don't know if I asked you before - but what books did you read? (if I have asked before forgive my forgetting - its been a very up and down year since dx and I can't remember everything I've said/asked) :D

 

Best

 

Darkshine

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+1 on what Adam just wrote!

 

Darkshine; Findings so far was a general question about the issue I just went into. I wasn't referring to sth in particular (as in sth mentioned earlier).

If you notice you'd need or like to change things about yourself, it might be useful to write such down for yourself, can you name certain things?

Than, a tactic I learned to use recently.. Go over the list and choose óne subject you'd like to work on.

Hi butterfly

 

Oddly enough I have a partial list, but never get anywhere with dealing with the items on it. I've pretty much ignored this list for the last few weeks after getting nowhere with it in the following 3/4 appointments with psychiatrists (that's the 3/4 appointments I had after the linked discussion) :rolleyes:

 

Here's a link - post #15 has the partial list

 

http://www.asd-forum...__fromsearch__1

 

I think I need to start with accepting the dx and work from there - its the most current thing in my life - and I still don't really understand... I've read a hell of a lot of internet stuff on it, watched programs, youtube even, I've read both normal "help/info" websites and also research papers... I've even read the entire NAS website - this took A WHILE :lol: it really did - it's big!

 

But nowhere is AS described in a complete way that makes sense - I can see a lot of the parts - but I am really struggling to see the bigger picture - it would be really useful if a book existed that does this, in a way that I can understand... I'm open to suggestions :D

 

Best

 

Darkshine

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I have two books.

 

Pretending to be Normal by Liane Holliday Willey. My psychologist lent it to me and I subsequently bought a copy. It's a mix of autobiography and practical advice. I like this book because I relate to about 90% of what she has experienced. It's definitely suited more to readers whose AS is high functioning.

 

Solutions for Adults with Asperger Syndrome by Juanita P Lovett. This is a factual book with some short case studies prefacing each chapter. I like this book because it is aimed at adults and helps to explain in more detail many of our symptoms and behaviours, for example problems associated with multiple sensory inputs.

 

My sister has The Complete Guide to Asperger's Syndrome by Tony Attwood, which she bought after I was diagnosed to help her to understand the condition. This is probably the most detailed book available and isn't really something to read from cover to cover but rather to use as a reference manual.

 

You can get any of these books on Amazon.

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But nowhere is AS described in a complete way that makes sense - I can see a lot of the parts - but I am really struggling to see the bigger picture - it would be really useful if a book existed that does this, in a way that I can understand... I'm open to suggestions :D

Best Darkshine

My describtion..

AS is a different way of perceiving the world, what means you either notice more or less than most..

With that you are either overly or understimulated.. The world is highly unpredictable..

Thus to learn, you lean heavily on others that you trust. Trust is very important, thus lying is very disruptive..

(even a white lie from a teacher when she says she's doing ok, while she sad about sth.. Thus no trust for the teacher no more!)

Flexibility does excist, though only when there is peace and trust! Though life is growth and growth means change!

 

With overstimulation, one can have a freeze/flight/fight response..

The differences amongst AS people has to do with the fact that every one is an individual. With preverences in senses..

But the way you perceive the wordl is also very dependable on: surrouding, upbringing (nature/nurture), experienxe, time of day, thoughts, conditioning,..

Thus the spectrum varies widely!

Overstimulation can happen very gradually.. over years.. Whilst working and getting more responsabilities, the stresslevel grow significantly quicker than the ability to deal with the stress..

As the stress has been in the system for years, the individual doesn't even recognize it anymore.. Probably thinks one has a burn-out, because of new responsabilities..

One doesn't get help, for so far everything went fine, and well, know how is sufficient, so..

At that point the elasticity jas been stretched do far, that flexibility seems to lessen even more

 

Can you get any of this so far?

 

 

Writer that helped me understand myself, no the whole spectrum:

Olga Bogdashina ;-)

Edited by butterfly73

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Hi there,

 

Just want to put this out there,

 

You ARE 'normal' !

I AM 'normal'

We ARE 'normal'

 

Every one both on this site and off it IS 'normal' !!

 

Do you really think that HOW someone deals with anything they consider negative defines their 'normality' ??

 

Every single person in the world will 'deal with' things in a different way, so what is 'normal' for me won't be for you, and what is 'normal' for you won't be for me.

 

I think we are putting way too much pressure on ourselves to be what we PERCEIVE to be 'normal', instead of realising that however we actually deal with things IS 'normal' !!

 

Why are we chasing an ideal of 'normal' when it doesn't exist??

 

We are all individuals, not a clone of an 'ideal' or 'normal' human being.

 

Merry Xmas to all , X

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You ARE 'normal' !

I AM 'normal'

We ARE 'normal'

Every one both on this site and off it IS 'normal' !!

+1.. THANK YOU.. here here!

:notworthy:

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I have two books.

 

Pretending to be Normal by Liane Holliday Willey.

 

Solutions for Adults with Asperger Syndrome by Juanita P Lovett.

 

My sister has The Complete Guide to Asperger's Syndrome by Tony Attwood

 

Thanks Adam - I'll look into them and see what I think :thumbs:

 

 

Can you get any of this so far?

I understand the little bits - its just understanding AS as a whole that I don't get - I always struggle with this - I spend a year on a course and don't understand it, then a year or two later it slowly starts making sense :D

 

Its like I can only understand if all the pieces of information are put into a certain order - my brain is like a safe combination, you can spin the wheel all day long to no avail, you can even have the numbers of the combination, but things only make sense when it in the right order and all the little wheels are lined up just right - it makes learning an interesting challenge :P

 

Conversely give me something to learn on a computer, or mechanical, or something to memorise and I'm fine - its just when it comes to understanding things that I read or listen to that there's an issue :)

 

Hi there,

 

Just want to put this out there,

 

You ARE 'normal' !

I AM 'normal'

We ARE 'normal'

 

Every one both on this site and off it IS 'normal' !!

 

Do you really think that HOW someone deals with anything they consider negative defines their 'normality' ??

 

Every single person in the world will 'deal with' things in a different way, so what is 'normal' for me won't be for you, and what is 'normal' for you won't be for me.

 

I think we are putting way too much pressure on ourselves to be what we PERCEIVE to be 'normal', instead of realising that however we actually deal with things IS 'normal' !!

 

Why are we chasing an ideal of 'normal' when it doesn't exist??

 

We are all individuals, not a clone of an 'ideal' or 'normal' human being.

 

Merry Xmas to all , X

Hello :)

 

I'm primarily trying to understand how to accept myself - the normal issue is a whole other story :)

 

Normal in the dictionary is also defined as: standard, to be expected, typical, usual, average - so useful for identifying general trends - or for expecting a certain type of behaviour - like when someone says "your not your normal self" they create a typical idea of you in their head and when you don't fit it they notice :D

 

If the dictionary says it exists - it has to :lol: just kidding - I know what you meant, but I think there are typical expectations from people, behaviours and conversations that are viewed as normal in some way or another, we notice when things "aren't normal" or rather "are different" - and different as a concept requires normal - one of its opposites - they exist to define each other.

 

I don't feel normal in comparison to the people I know - I feel different - but not different in a good way.

 

Regards

 

Darkshine

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If the dictionary says it exists - it has to :lol: just kidding - I know what you meant, but I think there are typical expectations from people, behaviours and conversations that are viewed as normal in some way or another, we notice when things "aren't normal" or rather "are different" - and different as a concept requires normal - one of its opposites - they exist to define each other.
Right.. If you are not normal, that would also imply being ABnormal.. which I am not ;-) Different, onconventional.. most definitly :D

 

Normal is boring. Why would you want to be *normal* ;)
Humans are overall group-orientated.. Even with autism, I notice a bíg need to comfor in certain kids.. ie. a 3yr old nééded SALT for he himself had noticed his speech wasn't up to par.. Highly motivated..

Than at 4, when school started, within a week, he had decided not to come anymore: Just one other kid had SALT, thus wasn't normal and therefor underiserable at that point..

Usually I can get very far with kids, but there is nó way I could convince that kid.. (Lots of parents will nodding, I expect)

Edited by butterfly73

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In case this debate about normality stems from my recommendation of the book Pretending to be Normal, I should add that it is probably an ironic choice of title. The author doesn't necessarily condone the efforts of many with AS to try to fit in with society's stereotype of 'normal' but she does function at a sufficiently high level to suppress or disguise many of her AS traits.

 

My clinical psychologist said something similar about me. She believed that the huge mental effort I make to seem 'normal' to NTs is the probable cause of my nervous breakdowns (acute anxiety disorder). By 'normal' I mean trying trying to 'normalise' things like eye contact, contextual (not necessarily literal) meaning of what is said to me, understanding of metaphors, empathy (still a very hard one), engaging brain before mouth, etc. Obviously, some with AS are more accomplished than others at doing this but there's no denying that many of us have a natural instinct to want to try to fit in and not be conspicuous.

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Normal is boring. Why would you want to be *normal* ;)

Normal is a difficult word... I don't want to be right down the middle normal, or dull, just be able to do the things people take for granted sometimes - and for the things that take me so much effort to not be the very things that would make me look like a freak if I didn't :rolleyes:

 

You know what? When I say sometimes I wish I were normal - I also mean I wish I didn't have AS... if I'm honest... :( even when AS didn't have a name, the things I've struggled were still there - the name makes no difference in that sense...

 

In addition there are some things that I feel are "wrong" with me - and I just wish that I didn't have these problems.

 

Humans are overall group-orientated.. Even with autism, I notice a bíg need to comfor in certain kids.. ie. a 3yr old nééded SALT for he himself had noticed his speech wasn't up to par.. Highly motivated..

Than at 4, when school started, within a week, he had decided not to come anymore: Just one other kid had SALT, thus wasn't normal and therefor underiserable at that point..

Usually I can get very far with kids, but there is nó way I could convince that kid.. (Lots of parents will nodding, I expect)

I think it's a defense mechanism after trying and failing for such a long time to fit in without realising why...

 

I think its partly a defence mechanism with me... stay shut off and you don't have to fight against everything and you don't have to face rejection over and over again... except now I'm stuck in a place that isn't much better :rolleyes:

 

In case this debate about normality stems from my recommendation of the book Pretending to be Normal, I should add that it is probably an ironic choice of title. The author doesn't necessarily condone the efforts of many with AS to try to fit in with society's stereotype of 'normal' but she does function at a sufficiently high level to suppress or disguise many of her AS traits.

 

My clinical psychologist said something similar about me. She believed that the huge mental effort I make to seem 'normal' to NTs is the probable cause of my nervous breakdowns (acute anxiety disorder). By 'normal' I mean trying trying to 'normalise' things like eye contact, contextual (not necessarily literal) meaning of what is said to me, understanding of metaphors, empathy (still a very hard one), engaging brain before mouth, etc. Obviously, some with AS are more accomplished than others at doing this but there's no denying that many of us have a natural instinct to want to try to fit in and not be conspicuous.

I think the normal stuff just came as a part of the conversation - to me, part of understanding all this, is realising that there's some things that are going to be a lot harder than other things - and in a way it highlights areas where some people feel abnormal or something...

 

And like that mental effort you talk about - when things take that amount of effort, it can sometimes suggest not being normal when other people you know might not have to make so much effort - that's the sort of thing I meant earlier when I said that people can take certain things for granted :D when I look around at the people in my life, who do not ever think of these things:

 

"By 'normal' I mean trying trying to 'normalise' things like eye contact, contextual (not necessarily literal) meaning of what is said to me, understanding of metaphors, empathy (still a very hard one), engaging brain before mouth, etc."

 

That's where knowing about AS has helped - because I know that other people struggle too, and in a weird way it's nice not being the only one.

 

As for acceptance... until I finish the battle with myself I think I'm screwed :huh:

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Darkshine - I think one of the biggest differences between you and I, is the little girl I have running around my house! She is so innocently Aspie in her mannerisms and her pedantism, and she reminds me so much of myself.

As her mother, I am fighting to get her diagnosed and supported so that she is taught explicitly the things which I have never learnt. This has helped me to accept my own AS - when you see it so clearly in someone else it's hard not to!

 

(null)

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Maybe there's something in that - I think I said to someone else once that it's not the same when its just me - that if things had to be done for a kid - i.e. my kid - then I would find the fight inside - but for me? It just isn't there.

 

I have tried with this post to be rational and logical, and tried to listen to what everyone has said - but there's still something in my brain shouting that I just don't think I'm worth it... I don't think I deserve it... and I've got no argument to make that part of me shut up.

 

Its really nice that people think of things and respond to me - and I always will appreciate that - and I wish I could believe it when people tell me that I am worth it, and they do like me, and I do deserve better than this life I have... its just not easy, at all.

 

My only scrap of motivation is that I do not want other people to feel like me, I want to find a way to help other people - except I'm stuck now, because to move forward I need to help myself.... and to be honest with you, I just don't know how to do that, I know acceptance is a part of it, but there's other things too and it all just seems impossible because I don't know where to start and the people I see (the health pro's) they just don't seem to have a clue either and are all to swift to shout "AS" and expect me to be happy to write off ever trying and just blame AS for everything and that's not the right way forward either - very very lost with it all - its like I'm stuck in time, watching everyone else get on with their lives...

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Hi,

 

I felt incredibly sad when I read your last post. You really seem to be 'going in circles' while trying to find a way forward.

 

I wish I knew how to help, but the more I read your responses to others the more entrenched you seem to be in a cycle of can't/ won't beliefs.

 

Maybe you could take a copy of your posts etc ( with everyones permission of course) to show the 'medical professionals' involved as I doubt they are aware of half of the issues you face ( Like everyone else, I'll bet you only manage to get across a fraction of the information when you are at an appointment)

 

You have been very open and frank online, and many people have raised valid points with which you have identified, which may help the 'professionals' find a 'place to start' for you?

 

I hope I haven't said anything 'out of line' regarding copying the thread ( if so, then I apologise), but there is so much valid and relevent information contained here that it may help your psychologist etc in 'finding the way forward' or at least a place to start.

 

My absolute best wishes to you,

xx

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Hi Spam,

 

I don't mean to make anyone sad or anything - I appreciate your thoughts though :)

 

The thing that frustrates me with the psychiatrist and the care-coordinator I see, is that I have told them all this, I've told them in every single way I can think of, over the past 2 years I've told them everything in every single way I know how - but they just listen and nod and then we never find a way of moving forwards - they don't seem to understand... At the moment I'm still messing around with medication, which I'm doing purely because they haven't suggested anything else, and I figured that at least I can say I'm trying.

 

I have agoraphobia so getting out is very problematic, and is another part of why I'm stuck, cause even when my mind is willing to do things, I seem trapped by another part of myself that won't let me go out the door on my own.

 

A few months ago I posted about talking with the shrink and care-co, and 2 or 3 forum members really helped me to come up with a concise list that I could present to these people, I did go through this list with the people I see and all they said is that I should wait and discuss it with a CBT person, who typically has been put on hold as that person will not work with me while I'm having difficulties with medication - which I really felt pressurised to do by the psychiatrist and my carer in the first place.

 

I just don't understand the point in these people (the docs or whatever) they get me to sit there and try to explain things for an hour and then they essentially go "thank you, so we'll set another appointment in 6 weeks and see you again" :wallbash: Even when I try to discuss a specific problem, like social anxiety, they give me more pills to handle it - but what does taking pills for everything achieve? I don't even like pills - and have spent time making that very clear to them.

 

Even though I'm stuck, I'm trying to take in what people are saying, and the good thing is I can always come back and read it again later, I think its important for me to try, even when it doesn't feel like I'm getting anywhere and I'm banging my head against several brick walls.

 

I'm trying to understand a lot of things so I can try and have a life - and lots of things people have said makes sense, its just that I can't just flick a switch and undo everything in my head... I just hope that people don't think I'm a hopeless case, I'd hate to be tedious, but this talking to people on forums is something different to me, it's not just my opinion any more and that's a good thing, to not be stuck with all this on my own, and not be able to say anything to anyone was pretty rubbish before...

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