Origins

[darkshine]

Sometimes I come across something that suddenly becomes obvious or intriguing, or sometimes just funny....

 

This time its cars - we still call the glove compartment or glove box, a glove box, I assume this is from early days of motoring when people wore driving gloves, yet we still call it that even though we put all sorts of things in them and probably not gloves most of the time either....

 

It often causes annoyance this quirk of mine... cuz now I have lots of questions about cars

 

Why use the words: Steering wheel? Clutch? Manifold? Boot? Sunroof? Hatchback?

 

Basically where did every single name to do with cars and for every single part of a car come from and why.... some are probably a little more obvious than others

 

Anyway, just thought I'd share that

 

Edit - this isn't the thing I referred to in the tingly scalp feelings of pleasure post - when I said I might post something.... it isn't this

Edited January 5, 2012 by darkshine

[Linnet]

Hi Darkshine

 

I love your post -it's given me loads of things to think about.

 

I am currently obsessed with finding out about the lives of pigs. I saw loads of them in fields when I was on holiday and discovered that their shelters are called pig arks. Now I need to know whether the pigs have their own pig ark or whether they just go into the nearest one for shelter.

 

I am now going to give some thought to the names of parts of a car as it will be a nice change from thinking about pigs!

 

L x

[darkshine]

Glad you like my post Pigs and cars eh? Why not

 

I think pigs are overlooked as an animal - they can be very intelligent, and gentle, which is pretty cool for an animal that could badly injure humans if they wanted - big sharp teeth too.

 

I just get these phases where I'm like "why do we call something by a certain name? when did it start? Why do we still use the same word? etc" and I find it fun - but other people don't always like it cuz they get annoyed with me for it.

 

Like the difference between English and American speech.... Car/road words only

 

Pavement - Sidewalk

Petrol - Gas

Accelerator - Gas

Boot - Trunk

Bonnet - Hood

 

I like how Americans use the phrase "black top" to describe road surfaces

 

There's more but I'll save everyone's eyes and leave this as a condensed list

 

Does anyone else have this happen? And does anyone get this thing where a word can look stupid - like it doesn't make sense to look like it does? Like me typing all these letters and you being able to read what I just said - but do you ever look closely at the words and think - that doesn't look right - how can those letters make up a word that everyone can understand - but it just looks wrong somehow....

[littleplum]

I remember as a young child having great difficulty understanding why 'once' is pronounced as if it begins with 'w'. Then what about rough, bough, and cough? They should sound the same but they don't.

 

At least the Americans tried to simplify some words like colour by removing the 'u'. But then they overcomplicated others, like burgle, by changing it to burglarise.

[KezT]

the stud of where words come from is called etymology (oooh, I DID learn smething by doing an english degree!). there are some fairly good etymology dictionaries online (just google it) and some frankly fasciating books in the Eng Lang sectio of uni bookshops/libraries. Or if you're lucky enough to be able to get your hands on a full OED, you could spend years readng through where words come from, why and where they have been used and how they have changed ovr the years.....

 

 

did you know that butterflys used to be called flutterbys and no-one knows where the word "pig" came from?

[darkshine]

I remember as a young child having great difficulty understanding why 'once' is pronounced as if it begins with 'w'. Then what about rough, bough, and cough? They should sound the same but they don't.

 

At least the Americans tried to simplify some words like colour by removing the 'u'. But then they overcomplicated others, like burgle, by changing it to burglarise.

I guess no language is perfect I used to get bothered by all the "silent" or totally different letter and sounds we have in our language - silent 'b's annoy me

 

the stud of where words come from is called etymology (oooh, I DID learn smething by doing an english degree!). there are some fairly good etymology dictionaries online (just google it) and some frankly fasciating books in the Eng Lang sectio of uni bookshops/libraries. Or if you're lucky enough to be able to get your hands on a full OED, you could spend years readng through where words come from, why and where they have been used and how they have changed ovr the years.....

 

 

did you know that butterflys used to be called flutterbys and no-one knows where the word "pig" came from?

Hmmm, an English degree is obviously useful lol - I haven't ever bought a dictionary for etymology, but have spent a fair amount of time looking up words when this occurs to me - I just like using other words because etymology is a word I allow myself to forget

 

I knew about the flutterby thing and the pig one too - I don't know why I was looking it up! So weird, but found this out only a month or so ago - I like some foreign words for things too, because the translation doesn't always carry across in the exact same meaning...

 

Like butterfly - in english, butter, and fly, makes sense, the online stuff says that one possible reason for the word butterfly is cuz of the colour of some butterfly's wings, others say they steal butter *(unlikely but maybe not impossible) they said a couple of other things I forget too.

 

I looked it up in Dutch and a butterfly is called a vlinder - if you look up the Dutch word for butter, it is not like the word vlinder, but fly is slightly similar vlieg - but being english I do not know if this refers to flying, having wings, or fly like a house fly

 

In French its papillon - and again, neither butter nor fly, as separate words, in French, are nothing like the word for butterfly.

 

Same deal in German Schmetterling - but separated as butter and fly, the words are nothing like the name for butterfly...

 

I guess the problem with language is that it can be an endless search because if you look at Dutch again, the word for moth is nachtvlinder, nacht being night, which totally makes sense, whereas we say moth, which is nothing like butterfly shall I stop? Because as a word, Moth is a pretty weird one

[KezT]

The fun thing about english is that it is a totally bastardised mix of several languages - which is why our spelling is weird and we have many words for the same concept (attic/loft or pig/swine/hog). Boring languages like French and Spanish haven't worked out how to invite their friends (and enemies) round to play so stay pretty much the same for centuries - whereas the English can barely understand one generation to the next LOL

 

In my travels in my youth, I chatted to many people who spoke english as a 2nd (or 3rd, 4th 5th or een 6th) language, and they all said that it as the easiest to learn enough to get by, but the hardest to lean to speak "like a native". I didn't have the heart to tell them that natives often don't speak the same language at all (try listening to geordie/glaswegian/belfast speakers in their own homes....)

 

English has th largest vocabularly of any language in the world, and it is growing the fastest. on the plus side, we can understand a sentance even if put together completely incorrectly grammatically (thanks Yoda) unlike most other languages, so we can understand the most broken or badly pronounced:)

 

BTW - moth was only used for lavae not the flying things until the 17th century, so probably comes from maggot

Edited January 6, 2012 by KezT

[Lyndalou]

I'm going to throw something else into the mix...

 

When I did my Heritage Management Postgrad we had 2 lecturers one of whom believed that Scots is a 'dialect' or rather the 4 distincts Scots dialects are 'dialects' or derivatives of English and the other lecturer believed that Scots is a 'sister language' to English. They had a fair few barneys about it.

 

I love the English language but I am intrigued by Scots, partly because I understand a lot of it when it is spoken and often use Scots in conversation purely because the English 'equivalent' is just not descriptive enough but I couldn't hold an entire conversation in it. I bought a Scots / English dictionary recently and recognised so very little of it that I was really taken aback but it struck me that the words were so alien to English, why could it only be described as a dialect especially as the roots of so many of the words come from so many different languages?

 

Dreich, drookit, boorach, steer, muckle - all brilliantly descriptive words. Fit fit does it fit? - round here that means ' Which foot does it fit? or Fit Like means 'How are you?'

 

Around 3 years ago, I went through a phase of being driven daft thinking about the origin of some words...I commented to my husband that I wondered why a door was called a door etc. Now and again, if he wants to wind me up he'll go 'But why is a door called a door?' grrrr!

 

I also get a bit wound up when people copy how I annunciate words or make fun of how I put things. When I first met my husband's family they used to say 'Och Aye the noo' to me every time I walked in the room and it was bl00dy annoying especially since this phrase doesn't even exist!

 

'But n Ben a Go Go' is a brilliant book set in the future, written entirely in Scots and even some made-up words that the author thinks could exist in the future. I could only read it when I read out loud!

[Dijac]

Since we moved to France, I have been teaching English as a second language. And in teaching English, I have learnt a lot of English.

 

Just today I was discussing a text with a student, and explaining that a barber was a men's hairdresser, who sometimes shaves clients too - and it seemed to make perfect sense - since beard is 'Barbe'in French. It hadn't occurred to me before.

 

I agree that English is one of the hardest to speak as a native - with so many words for things, then so many meanings for different words.

 

But, getting back to the original post, I'm afraid I don't know a lot of car related words. I did live in the US before France, and did have some problems with pronunciation, and one word the Americans could never understand was when I said garage - they pronounced it 'grage'.

[darkshine]

I'm laughing so hard I might die in a nice way - I just like that you guys all have similar things going on... some things are just intriguing

 

Thanks for the moth thing KezT everything you said was really interesting - I liked the yoda example, its funny how our language lets us do that and things still make enough sense

 

I liked your post too Lynda - personally I can never understand a Scottish voice when I first hear one, it takes me a while to "tune my head into it" but I love the sound despite that

 

I got into a debate about the difference between accent and dialect once - that took a while to sort out - except I'm left not remembering whether I agreed with myself or the person I was debating it with

 

Dijac your example is exactly the kind of thing I mean (barber) because its something that happens out of the blue, and the a word suddenly makes sense in some way - which I find quite cool - and is the main reason I don't look up every word, because its kinda more fun when something just pops up and becomes weird or obvious

 

No worries about the car words - it was just the thing that popped into my head, because I was writing an email and asked my dad if a certain cd was in his glove box - I suddenly abandoned my email to write my OP on here - as you do if anyone thinks this is weird that I had to do that - you are probably right

[AdamJ]

At least the Americans tried to simplify some words like colour by removing the 'u'. But then they overcomplicated others, like burgle, by changing it to burglarise.

 

Ooh, this is one of my favourite subjects!

 

Many British people think that the Americans have somehow corrupted our language with words like color and the use of -ize instead of -ise at the end of some words. But no - it is we who corrupted our own language! When the early settlers went to America, they took with them the English language as it prevailed at the time, which included color and words ending in -ize. In the 18th and 19th centuries, Britain came under the increasing cultural influence of France, and this fashion led to changes of words like color to colour, and -ize to -ise. So it was we who changed, not the Americans.

 

In the mid- to late 20th century, academics (mostly at Oxford University Press) campaigned for a return to the -ize spelling and for a while, their dictionaries only listed this variant. I think I'm right in saying that even The Times, traditionally a weathervane of English usage, adopted the -ize spelling for a period. However, the -ise variant survived this academic backlash and is now once again generally accepted as the normal spelling.

 

Why use the words: Steering wheel? Clutch? Manifold? Boot? Sunroof? Hatchback?

 

It's usually easier not to change words with antiquated meanings because we have grown up understanding these words for what they are.

 

Steering wheel: erm, well, it's wheel-shaped and it's for steering!

Clutch: it's a device that clutches (or grips) the crankshaft and gearbox together to produce drive. Declutching releases the 'clutch' of the, erm, clutch so that the gearbox is not under the load of the engine's power and gears can be changed.

Manifold: a complex casting that channels the exhaust output of the engine's exhaust ports from four outputs (in the case of a four cylinder engine) into one so that the outputs are expelled through a single exhaust pipe. Manifold refers to the multiple exhaust ports it connects to.

Boot: I don't know this one - perhaps somebody else does?

Sunroof: A symptom of our blind optimism that it will allow sun to shine through the roof when opened.

Hatchback: well, it's at the back and when opened, reveals an opening a bit like a hatch..

Edited January 7, 2012 by AdamJ

[Mandapanda]

I like the French affectionate phrase that translates as 'my little cabbage'!

[Aeolienne]

I saw loads of them in fields when I was on holiday and discovered that their shelters are called pig arks. Now I need to know whether the pigs have their own pig ark or whether they just go into the nearest one for shelter.

Around the Ridgeway in Oxfordshire the pigs live in what look like miniature Nissan huts - I prefer to call them pigloos myself.

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/585796

[darkshine]

Hey Adam

 

Thanks for the Americanisms insight I really find it interesting...

 

Ooh, this is one of my favourite subjects!

 

Many British people think that the Americans have somehow corrupted our language with words like color and the use of -ize instead of -ise at the end of some words. But no - it is we who corrupted our own language! When the early settlers went to America, they took with them the English language as it prevailed at the time, which included color and words ending in -ize. In the 18th and 19th centuries, Britain came under the increasing cultural influence of France, and this fashion led to changes of words like color to colour, and -ize to -ise. So it was we who changed, not the Americans.

 

In the mid- to late 20th century, academics (mostly at Oxford University Press) campaigned for a return to the -ize spelling and for a while, their dictionaries only listed this variant. I think I'm right in saying that even The Times, traditionally a weathervane of English usage, adopted the -ize spelling for a period. However, the -ise variant survived this academic backlash and is now once again generally accepted as the normal spelling.

 

The 'ize' / 'ise' thing drives me mad with some of the courses I've done, so I spend months reading books that use the 'z' versions, and the rest of the time trying to stop doing it myself after the course ends

 

I like:

pants v trousers

Cookies v biscuits

Chips v crisps

 

There's loads more but I can't think of them - plus a fair portion of the ones I can remember will only appear on here like this: ##### so I'll leave those ones out

 

I don't mind words like colour being different - but the word gray really bugs me for some reason - even though it makes more sense to spell it the American way.

 

Do you have an opinion on the schedule pronunciation? That's something that drives me nuts for some reason too (I like the sk version and not the sh one)

 

The Americans must have had influences too though - like how in certain parts of the country some of the Native American names have been kept for geographical locations like towns and rivers for example... Also you got South America as well - which my history is terrible so I don't know much about...

 

It's usually easier not to change words with antiquated meanings because we have grown up understanding these words for what they are.

 

Steering wheel: erm, well, it's wheel-shaped and it's for steering!

Clutch: it's a device that clutches (or grips) the crankshaft and gearbox together to produce drive. Declutching releases the 'clutch' of the, erm, clutch so that the gearbox is not under the load of the engine's power and gears can be changed.

Manifold: a complex casting that channels the exhaust output of the engine's exhaust ports from four outputs (in the case of a four cylinder engine) into one so that the outputs are expelled through a single exhaust pipe. Manifold refers to the multiple exhaust ports it connects to.

Boot: I don't know this one - perhaps somebody else does?

Sunroof: A symptom of our blind optimism that it will allow sun to shine through the roof when opened.

Hatchback: well, it's at the back and when opened, reveals an opening a bit like a hatch..

Brilliant... only about 80% of the car to go joking!

 

Some terms make a lot more sense than others... I guess some parts may be named after people? I could google all this but its more fun asking

 

If you love this sort of thing, what kind of things do you notice most? With me I'm living my life like usual and then I suddenly notice something and become... er... a little fixated

[darkshine]

I like the French affectionate phrase that translates as 'my little cabbage'!

I gotta ask I tried not to but I simply have to what's the French phrase that translates as 'little cabbage'?

 

Around the Ridgeway in Oxfordshire the pigs live in what look like miniature Nissan huts - I prefer to call them pigloos myself.

http://www.geograph....uk/photo/585796

Cool lots of pigs

[AdamJ]

Do you have an opinion on the schedule pronunciation? That's something that drives me nuts for some reason too (I like the sk version and not the sh one)

 

None of the things you mention drives me nuts. For what it's worth, I've always understood that the 'sk' pronunciation of schedule is English and the 'sh' pronunciation is American. Honestly, though, it doesn't bother me either way.

 

If you love this sort of thing, what kind of things do you notice most? With me I'm living my life like usual and then I suddenly notice something and become... er... a little fixated

 

I'm struck by the occasional absurdity of words that sound like one another. "Walking through a meadow, I leant down to pick a buttercup, though why anyone should have left a buttock there, I have no idea."

 

Also, some double-entendres amuse me, like these:

"Thank you for sending me your manuscript. I shall waste no time in reading it."

"University is a fountain of knowledge and students go to drink there."

 

In examples like these, the play on words often needs pointing out to me - a lack of imagination, I suppose. For the same reason, I often struggle to understand typed text if a word has been misspelled to form another work. Sorry, I mean 'word.' I also find mistakes in predictive texting confusing, like "I promise to be good at 10pm." [good = home].

 

So, much as I love language, it's a mixture of amusement and confusion!

Edited January 9, 2012 by AdamJ

[Aeolienne]

I don't mind words like colour being different - but the word gray really bugs me for some reason - even though it makes more sense to spell it the American way.

Isn't that also the Scots way? As in "the auld gray toon" [st Andrews].

[AdamJ]

I gotta ask I tried not to but I simply have to what's the French phrase that translates as 'little cabbage'?

 

I think it's 'mon petit chou.'

 

I used to make up my own French terms of endearment:

Mon petit cornichon - my little gherkin

Ma jolie poubelle - my pretty dustbin

Ma petite camionette - my little van

(Best used with non-French speakers )

[Aeolienne]

I think it's 'mon petit chou.'

Non, c'est "mon/ma chouette". Which is also a species of owl, I believe...

 

AdamJ, how about "gentille tarte" for "sweety pie"?

[AdamJ]

Non, c'est "mon/ma chouette". Which is also a species of owl, I believe...

 

AdamJ, how about "gentille tarte" for "sweety pie"?

 

I think if I called anyone a 'gentille tarte', I would brace myself for a slap on the face!

Edited January 9, 2012 by AdamJ

[Aeolienne]

I'm intrigued that the German and Swedish words for "glove" translate literally as "hand shoe" (Handschuh, handske). What must speakers of those languages think of Marks & Spencer's footwear range "Footglove"?

Edited January 9, 2012 by Aeolienne

[AdamJ]

I'm intrigued that the German and Swedish words for "glove" translate literally as "hand shoe" (Handschuh, handske). What must speakers of those languages think of Marks & Spencer's footwear range "Footglove"?

 

Blimey, Aeolienne, how many languages do you speak?

 

I just remembered an extreme example of the problems a typo can cause. Here's a fictional email exchange between a woman away on business, and her husband:

____________________

Hi darling, how are things? What have you been up to while I've been away?

____________________

Well, I've spent the whole of this weekend in bed with a coed, one I picked up at school on Monday while dropping off the kids. I'm now worried that I might have caught a dose of something nasty so I'm going to the doctor tomorrow. After all, I wouldn't want to give it to you.

____________________

You cheating, brazen b*st*rd! I won't forgive you for this. I'll be staying with my parents when I get back. The marriage is over!!

____________________

What have I done!?

____________________

And with a coed! You shameless, pathetic man. Well, I might as well tell you now that your best friend has been begging me to leave you for him. Some friend, huh? And you know what? I think I might just do that.

____________________

No!!! It was a typo - I meant a cold, not a coed!!!

Edited January 9, 2012 by AdamJ

[Aeolienne]

Blimey, Aeolienne, how many languages do you speak?

I've learnt four, but I don't speak any of them fluently (see earlier thread)

 

It was a typo - I meant a cold, not a coed!!!

Hm - a tad implausible, given that E and L are pretty much at opposite ends of the qwerty keyboard. (bl00dy Aspie attention to mundane details! )

Funny the way Americans use coed to refer to a person as opposed to the educational philosophy. Is it also used to refer to a male student at a formerly all-female institution (i.e. the American equivalent of St Hilda's College Oxford), or has that scenario not arisen yet?

Edited January 10, 2012 by Aeolienne

[Aeolienne]

post deleted

Edited January 10, 2012 by Aeolienne

[darkshine]

Prepare yourselves for a mega post (just feel like replying to a million quotes at once - its that kinda day - its also the kind of day for exaggerating....)

 

I'm struck by the occasional absurdity of words that sound like one another. "Walking through a meadow, I leant down to pick a buttercup, though why anyone should have left a buttock there, I have no idea."

I had to read this about 5 times before I got it

 

Also, some double-entendres amuse me, like these:

"Thank you for sending me your manuscript. I shall waste no time in reading it."

"University is a fountain of knowledge and students go to drink there."

 

In examples like these, the play on words often needs pointing out to me - a lack of imagination, I suppose. For the same reason, I often struggle to understand typed text if a word has been misspelled to form another work. Sorry, I mean 'word.' I also find mistakes in predictive texting confusing, like "I promise to be good at 10pm." [good = home].

 

So, much as I love language, it's a mixture of amusement and confusion!

Even though I've heard these two phrases before I never thought about there being another meaning until now - its probably a rare example of where I didn't take them literally and now that I've just read them again they have a completely different meaning in a literal sense

 

I like text mis-spellings - there's some funny ones when you type in certain names too

 

 

Isn't that also the Scots way? As in "the auld gray toon" [st Andrews].

I haven't got a clue - but it might be like what Adam said earlier about the Americans and Britain - maybe Scotland refused to completely change their language, they seem to have more pride in things like that

 

I think it's 'mon petit chou.'

 

I used to make up my own French terms of endearment:

Mon petit cornichon - my little gherkin

Ma jolie poubelle - my pretty dustbin

Ma petite camionette - my little van

(Best used with non-French speakers )

Non, c'est "mon/ma chouette". Which is also a species of owl, I believe...

 

AdamJ, how about "gentille tarte" for "sweety pie"?

I think if I called anyone a 'gentille tarte', I would brace myself for a slap on the face!

I like some of your made up French names - I'd quite like to see someone react if you did call them a gentille tart

 

I just remembered an extreme example of the problems a typo can cause. Here's a fictional email exchange between a woman away on business, and her husband:

____________________

Hi darling, how are things? What have you been up to while I've been away?

____________________

Well, I've spent the whole of this weekend in bed with a coed, one I picked up at school on Monday while dropping off the kids. I'm now worried that I might have caught a dose of something nasty so I'm going to the doctor tomorrow. After all, I wouldn't want to give it to you.

____________________

You cheating, brazen b*st*rd! I won't forgive you for this. I'll be staying with my parents when I get back. The marriage is over!!

____________________

What have I done!?

____________________

And with a coed! You shameless, pathetic man. Well, I might as well tell you now that your best friend has been begging me to leave you for him. Some friend, huh? And you know what? I think I might just do that.

____________________

No!!! It was a typo - I meant a cold, not a coed!!!

I've seen something very similar to this but can't remember what example was used

 

Hm - a tad implausible, given that E and L are pretty much at opposite ends of the qwerty keyboard. (bl00dy Aspie attention to mundane details! )

 

I thought that too

 

I thought of another example of things that are called something - but they aren't really the thing they are called

 

A flint in a lighter isn't made of flint

Lead in a pencil isn't lead etc.

 

There's more I know it!!!

[Linnet]

Around the Ridgeway in Oxfordshire the pigs live in what look like miniature Nissan huts - I prefer to call them pigloos myself.

http://www.geograph....uk/photo/585796

Thank you for the pig photo, Aeolienne. I'm having a bad day today and it's really cheered me up.

 

L x

[Aeolienne]

Thank you for the pig photo, Aeolienne. I'm having a bad day today and it's really cheered me up.

 

L x

Is that (Ridgeway / Oxon) where you were on holiday?

Edited January 11, 2012 by Aeolienne

[Linnet]

Is that (Ridgeway / Oxon) where you were on holiday?

I was on holiday in Suffolk but the pigs looked just like the ones in the photo. It brought back happy memories.