clumsy boy

[darky]

is it common for aspie children to be very clumsy? my son will be 9 in november and hes incredibly clumsy. today he fell whilst getting in the bath and wacked his head, i cant seem to leave him alone as he trips and falls about all over the place! his motor skills have been tested and were found to be incredibly low just 1% but i dunno he seems to get worse! just when will he be able to stand on his feet??

[jools]

hiya

my son (nearly 8) is extremely clumsy and has a dx of dyspraxia.

we are just going through the process of trying to get a dx of aspergers and have been told its very common to have both

 

not sure when your son will be able to stand on his feet but i know mine can';t quite manage it yet

[bevalee]

Hi

 

It is common to Dyspraxia with AS, my son has this diagnosis too!

[bevalee]

Sorry, missed out the 'Have'!

[Canopus]

Technically dyspraxia and AS are two completely separate conditions. It can be possible to have AS but not dyspraxia or dyspraxia but not AS. I think that in the case of having both AS and dyspraxia then the dyspraxia "came first" and exacerbated the AS.

[tizzmeclare]

Hi darky,

 

My son aged 9 with AS is also immensely gross motor clumsy. One reports stated, he's got "a gangerly gait". We asked the GP to refer him, but he suggested we try the the other professional first for a referal....round and round we go...

 

 

tizz.

[Zemanski]

dyspraxia and AS are separate ASDs although there does appear to be some overlap of traits

 

both are lifelong learning disabilities, in official diagnostic terms, and both can be seen in the early years or not spotted until much later.

 

you can have either one or both and you may be effected more by one rather than the other but either might be more dominant if you have both.

 

however they are considered to be comorbid - that is that they tend to go together - because it is common for people with AS or autism to have dyspraxia (although it is definitely not compulsory)

 

if a child already has a diagnosis of AS or autism then the diagnosis of dyspraxic traits or tendencies may be added rather than a separate diagnosis given(not always but this does seem common).

 

in able children in particular the AS tends to be spotted late and the dyspraxia may be picked up first. For some reason it is conventional to give a separate diagnosis of AS in this case so the child has both.

 

Dyspraxia, unless pretty severe, seems to carry less importance in SEN terms as LEAs like to see it as a non-educational problem - occupational therapy can deal with it - even though it can severely hinder a child's learning, and certainly their ability to produce recorded evidence of their learning as many dyspraxic children find writing particularly difficult and it can also hinder speech.

 

AS/autism are given priority in educational terms as they can't be passed over to someone else in the same way - not that LEAs are particularly keen to place any level of priority on them.

 

If you think your child may be dyspraxic then you could ask for a referral to CAMHs and then OT but it could take a long time - Com waited 4 years to be given a short booklet of exercises and discharged!

 

a very good writer on Dyspraxia is Madeleine Portwood - developmental dyspraxia, identification and intervention, a manual for parents and professionals

 

it gives all the exercises Com was given and many more as well as instructions on how to make fun things like wobble boards for improving balance.

 

zemanski

[~Jonathan~]

You'd think it would be easy for me (tall and slim) to walk through a doorway without slamming into the doorjambs but I do it nearly every time. My balance is terrible and I'm forever tripping over or overbalancing. What's worse about the door scenario is that all the doors were widened for my Dad when he was alive, due to him being wheelchair-bound in his final years. I fell over in the garden last week, I miscalculated where the tree was I was trying to lean back on and slid to the ground

[sylv]

Same here our son is dx Dyspraxia as well, he is 9 years old now. He himself sometimes is sad that he cant coordinate legs and arms how he want to...also he has terrible problems with handwriting...although it is getting better.....

 

Love,

 

SylvXXX

[Canopus]

At least schools nowadays allow or even prefer that work is done on a computer. I had terrible problems with writing at junior school, but produced the work more easily on a computer. Quite often I would do my homework on a computer, but my school wasn't very happy with a printout as they preferred it written with a pen. I was never allowed to use a computer in class to produce written work with.

 

Is it really true that some dyspraxic/AS kids nowadays are given laptops to use in class instead of pens?

[mossgrove]

Our son 7, Aspergers is very clumsy indeed. This is not at all uncommon for children with Aspergers. I think thay are calling it Dyspraxic traits at the moment rather than dyspraxia but it comes down to the same thing for practical persons. His gross and fine motor skills were asessed as being below the 1st percentile. It is wort making sure that Occupational Therapy is inclused as part the special educational needs section of the staement if it is preventing hi getting full access to education.

 

He is a big lad for his age, he is overweight and several inches taller than his classmates, so he cn cause havoc without meaning to. I am incredibly clumsy too, so there may be some genetic involved.

 

Our 5 year old (ASD, ADHD) is incredibly agile, so it shows that you can have one without the other.

 

 

Simon

Edited July 7, 2005 by mossgrove

[Zemanski]

some kids get laptops but others don't - it depends on the school and the LEA - we asked for a laptop for Com but they say he doesn't need it even though he can write 2 levels above what he does with a pen. (mostly to do with drafting and paragraphing rather than actual motor problems these days - he can't bare to change anything on a page because it makes a mess)

 

one of the reasons for refusing a laptop given by the senco is that if he uses a laptop he will be too slow in class because his keyboard skills are too poor.

 

I did try to point out that if he had support for learning keyboard skills (which incidentally he has had at home) and practice in using them then he would catch up and would be efficient by the time his exams come round.

 

She wasn't interested as it would be an expense that isn't actually in his statement!

 

funnily enough, two years later, after all the hassle we've had with school this year, the deputy head has just offered one and doesn't see why it has to be in his statement

 

we shall see what comes - or doesn't!

 

Zemanski

[moncs]

Many schools in Scotland have a DCD group Developmental Coordination Group where the children participate in small group exercises. My son does this 3 or 4 mornings a week in school first thing but he is then exhausted after it. when we had nowhere to turn we went to DDAT . He has been on the programme for 11 months now and the results are astounding . within 6 weeks a little boy who could not ride a bike is zipping roundt he park. I know there have been other threads on DDAT and not all are positive but our son has certainly come on . through the exercises we are noticing the full extent of his difficulties .Before i would have claimed he didn't have any difficulties because they were not apparent now I know what I am looking for I can' t believe I never noticed .

[bramblebrae]

Hi there,

Please what is DDAT I am in Scotland, my son has autistic spectrum disorder its not be narrowed down any furthur than that but his is akin to aspergers or semantic pragmatic disorder along with hyperlexia perhaps because his reading is about 2/3 yrs ahead of his age. Anyway on the computer front he is getting through TASSC can't remember exactly what it stnads for but its a technical support unit which assess kids in schools to see what technologies may help with their difficulties, anyway sorry i digress hes getting a pc with a program called clicker4 to do written work on as he has some difficulty with actually writing but its more how upset and disruptive he gets when asked to do any written work or drawing colouring etc he often destroys his work even if he does do it , though at home in his magazines etc he seems to enjoy doing the writing for the puzzles etc as long as its his decision to do it!!

Anyway occupational therapy last some him about a year ago and thought he was fine but I am having a real problem trying to teach him to ride a bike and its getting more upsettin for me mainly but also him seeing folk younger than him whizing about no stabilisers nothing, my son seems to have slight problems concentrating on steering and moving his legs at the same time and on any slight gradient he just cannot get the bike to go himself even with a push for momnetum he just stops I've tried moving his legs for him but he just gets frustrated and gives up. I mean its not the be all and end all to ride a bike I just wonder if this is a sign of a bigger overall movement problem than has been noticed by the professionals and perhaps its something that he can get help with. He does wear splints on both legs due to toe walking and flat feet which without the splints gives him a very slightly awkward gait and sore knees. Sports day was a nightmare he dosent like to do things like games even board games unless he can win and he's just not got a chance against his mainstream class its so unfiar on him though he needs to learn to cope with not alwasy winning but starting with disadvantage isnt fair either, the tattie and spoon race was better but he kept going when tattie fell off then people shouting made him realise he had to go back so he went back and tried to pick it up with th spoon only, iimagine the instructions given were along the lines of dont use your hands to hold on the tattie and no one explained he could put it back on with his hand he was still trying to scoop it up when everyone nad finished and half the parent s were awwing and the other half laughing cause it was cute probably but my heart was breaking...

Mmmh the other thing is during the 3 or 4 swimming lessons we managed to go to before he completely went wild and refused to ever go back the teacher told me that she had been telling them to blow bubbles through the water and kick with theri legs at the same time and , oh it was the first time shed ever heard it from a student and it was so funny!!!argh, he told her he couldnt do two things at once just thinking about the bike riding it does seem to be something he has difficulty with if hes trying to do 2 things with his body and he needs to concentrate on both it seems like its a real challenge for him I say things he needs to concetrate on casue there certainly are things he does which involve 2 or more actions at once like he sings and 'dances' about at the same time its really made me think all this thanks for starting this thread I'm off to google dyspraxia

 

Lorraine

 

ps soerryI'm a rambler when typing thanks for reading all this:)

[Canopus]

It definitely looks like dyspraxia to me.

 

Anyway occupational therapy last some him about a year ago and thought he was fine but I am having a real problem trying to teach him to ride a bike and its getting more upsettin for me mainly but also him seeing folk younger than him whizing about no stabilisers nothing, my son seems to have slight problems concentrating on steering and moving his legs at the same time and on any slight gradient he just cannot get the bike to go himself even with a push for momnetum he just stops I've tried moving his legs for him but he just gets frustrated and gives up. I mean its not the be all and end all to ride a bike I just wonder if this is a sign of a bigger overall movement problem than has been noticed by the professionals and perhaps its something that he can get help with.

 

Bikes are something that dyspraxic kids have serious difficulty with. I couldn't ride a bike when I was 9 years old and my LEA thought I was disabled because they couldn't understand how a 9 year old was incapable of riding a bike unless they were disabled. I have a technique that actually works and it will probably take me longer to write it than it will take for your son to learn to ride his bike. If you are interested I could post it here.

[darky]

i would be very interested how you can teach someone with no co-ordination how to ride a bike!! please do post it! also my son has difficulty with left right discrimination.

[lil_me]

My son still can't ride a bike, we got him on a Go Kart as he was so petrified of bikes after we tried getting him to ride one, but he still struggles, can't do the steer-pedal-look (where he is going) all at the same time

[lisa]

My 11 year old daughter was diagnosed with dyspraxia last year. She was 9 before she finally learned to ride a bike and then she was still quite wobbly and had trouble starting off without someone holding the saddle. It's taken another 2 years for her to be confident. She didn't walk until she was 16 months old and never crawled. I'd suspected that she may be slightly dyslexic because when spelling she always puts the right letters in completely the wrong order but I've recently found out that this is a typical dyspraxic trait.

 

Lisa

[Zemanski]

Lorraine,

 

dyspraxic kids do find thinking about 2 physical things at once very difficult.

 

dyspraxic children are born, like all children, with millions of synaptic pathways - the paths the messages from the brain run along to tell our limbs what to do

 

in most kids the pathways are trimmed down to make them more and more efficient as they grow - sort of like taking a direct express bus rather than the one that goes all round the houses.

the more efficient the pathway the faster the message gets to the limb and the faster it can react.

 

in children with dyspraxia the trimming doesn't happen in the same way so the child isn't able to respond quickly enough to complete a task efficiently, this applies to everything from speech to catching a ball.

does your son speak slowly or with a drawl or have to pause before answering a question? - dyspraxic kids can need about 20-30 seconds longer to respond to a question than most kids, and in response times this is very long; try asking a question of yourself and then timing 20 seconds, you will be expecting a response well before that and it will have been waiting in your head to come out for ages. the same will be true for a dyspraxic kid but all that time they will have been actually trying to get the mouth in gear to get it out.

 

because the response times are so slow, and because many of the movements that usually become almost reflex just don't, a kid has to concentrate very hard on making his or her limbs behave themselves, to try to do two different movements at the same time is extremely hard and usually frustrating.

 

steering a bike at the same time as pedalling is just so complex, then add in having to watch for traffic, bumps and those big boys over there playing football, and s**t there's a corner to get round now, and the brakes, where are the brakes .....

 

how many things did you say I need to do at once?

 

Dyspraxic kids do need to practice these things - hard though it is they need to do more than other children to get the brain to develop more efficient pathways.

 

both my kids are dyspraxic and both are slow and careful (most tend to go for uncontrolled and clumsy). Dot tries really hard with physical activities and I can see her progressing but Com, who also has AS, finds it all too frustrating and just doesn't bother if he can help it so his progress has been much slower.

 

Dot particularly likes swimming and now swims like a fish, in the water is the one time she is truly elegant but this year has been really tough because the badge she was working for required crawl. Breast stroke is no problem the limbs move in sync. For crawl you do different things with arms and legs - she just couldn't do it.

 

She finally got the badge last week and reckons she's ready to do the next on monday - crawl is perfected at last

 

trampoline buried in the garden works wonders - develop balance and get exercise without it being a chore - we have an air feature instead of a water feature , or perhaps it's really a helipad!

 

 

Zemanski

[moncs]

Lil me I used to get so frustrated with Alex because he wanted to ride a bike but wouldn't let you help him and when he did we had to run around the parkwith him on his bike while we held the back of the bike. My back was nearly broken. AS I said earlier after 6 weeks at DDAt he could ride his bike and we have never looked back. On our first visit the doctor explained to us why he couldn't ride the bike he explained that he had to do too many things at the same time like looking ahead and all around, as soon as he movees his head his vistibular balance goes. He also has to coordinate his legs to push off and cycle ,again this affects his vistibular balance and so on . Alexander could not coordinate any of these at all.

 

The programme he does is split into 3 types of exercises vistibular balance, visual eye tracking , and general body awareness and fitness.

In esence Alex was doing specific exercised to improve his balance and eye tracking

We were amazed when he learned to ride his bike it meant he had another skill which would give him the opportunity to socialise with other children instead of running along after them.

Monica

[Canopus]

My son still can't ride a bike, we got him on a Go Kart as he was so petrified of bikes after we tried getting him to ride one, but he still struggles, can't do the steer-pedal-look (where he is going)  all at the same time

 

Is it one of these KMX Karts as in http://www.kmxkarts.co.uk

 

I would have liked one as a kid, but at the price I doubt if my parents would have bought me one assuming they were around 20 or so years ago.

[mossgrove]

You can get Adult tricycles which are good for people with balance problems.

 

We hired on at CenterParcs for our 7 year old when we went on holiday there (He's very big for his age), and it was wonderful to see him whizzing round with confidence on his trike. He managed because he could concerntrate on pedalling and steering and not have to worry about balancing which is still a big problem area. Maybe when the rest comes more naturally we will be able to think about a two-wheeled bike. We would like to buy him one but they are about �700 new, so we are on the lookout for a second-hand one.

 

Simon

Edited July 11, 2005 by mossgrove

[admum]

We live in London and its possible at a few places to hire lots of different types of bikes. Son had lessons there. He has aspergers and dyspraxia. They taught him very quickly. They were brilliant but they had lots of experience of SEN as they taught all types of disabilities. Wile we were waiting for the lessons we were told for him to practice riding a large scooter to improve balance - it really helped. Also we learned that the bike we had bought although meant for his age was too heavy which hampered balance. He still needs wide open spaces - neighbours panic about their beautiful mercs if he is out on the pavement for a practice! But at least he can do it. Not sure he would pass the cycle proficiency test though next year.