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leeds_demon

I Don't Think I'm An Aspie After All

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I was re-reading my assessment report compiled by the psychologist who assessed me at Sheffield Asperger's Unit.

 

At the time of my assessment, I said that I don't do social chit-chat and yet, when I go to the shops, I do talk to the shop assistants. I also said that I'm not a good conversationalist, but I can be.

 

OK, so I don't have any friends, but there are lots of NTs who don't.

 

It says in the report that I frequently find myself saying things that cause offence to other people, but I only mentioned one occasion, when I asked one of my university tutors why she didn't wear make up.

 

I can socialise, if I so wished to, it's just that I don't have any money and I don't want to leave my dog for too long.

 

So when I asked the second psychologist, who saw me for a couple of follow-up interviews, if it was possible to lie in an assessment, (so as to get a diagnosis), I was correct.

 

And I can look people in the eye, when I talk to them, even though I told the psychologist, who assessed me, that I find it disconcerting.

 

Based on the above, I know I'm not an Aspie.

 

I guess I lied!!

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I think it must be hard to dx adults in some ways because there must be an element of "sink or swim" to an individual's coping mechanisms and strategies to life - some people must learn to talk, look at people, lie, do things like get a job etc... So does that mean they can't have AS - I don't have a clue - but I think probably not - I think that some people must learn some things.

 

 

As someone who has been denying or questioning their dx for a year I can understand where you are coming from... I don't know if you have AS or not, or if the people who assessed you were good or not. I'm only half-heartedly denying and arguing mine now because it explains so much. I guess you know best, but I don't think that you got diagnosed based on just those examples you gave - although I did once say on here that it must be possible to get one by lying and a lot of people said that it wasn't possible from a proper professional - so haven't got a clue :lol: I like seeing you around here anyway - even if we don't talk much ;)

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The term aspie applies to those at the Asperger end of the spectrum who dont have a problem with it. (note if you have Kanners autism thats an autie rather than an aspie). You seem to be rejecting your diagnosis which would automatically disqualify you from the aspie identity.

 

An NT would have realised that you can socialise with the dog, chance encounters when out dog walking is still socialising, but could you carry on the conversation for a reasonable amount of time? Respond to the other person if they were upset? End the conversation reasonably? Be able to tell how the listener was thinking or feeling about the conversation? Be able to meet up with them again.An

 

An NT would also have the resources to communicate asking for someone to look after the dog and be able to budget so they they could afford a social life (because unless they are socially phobic social lives are normally a priority for NTs).

 

AQ tests can be fooled if you know the NT answers to give, ive heard of Asperger's who have got a negative result when testing for Aspergers because they know what answers to give.

 

It's more likely that you have found ways of hiding your Aspergers than you dont have it.

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@ trekster. I have no interests whatsoever. I don't have any collections, (say of toby jugs, football cards, etc). Ergo, I can't be an Aspie.

Re: social life. I don't have any friends and I can't leave my dog by himself. Also, because I have a very low wage, I don't have any spare money.

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You've posted similar things before.

 

You've only got yourself to blame if lying in your assessment has led to an incorrect diagnosis that you now can't shift. You really need to go back to the person who assessed you and explain that you lied and don't really have any difficulties after all.

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Just come back to add something...

 

Regarding denial....

 

Even though I've said a few times about accepting my dx, being angry at my dx, not wanting my dx, questioning my dx etc etc.

 

There is a key flaw.

 

If I really though I didn't have AS, that I wasn't on the spectrum at all, then I wouldn't post about it, I'd just leave - isn't this what everyone would do? I'd just say sod it, wouldn't you? Deny it and live life? I wouldn't post about it to get opinions or whatever cuz the opinions wouldn't matter if I were dead set against the diagnosis... I'd just be gone one day and that would be that, I wouldn't feel any need to cruise these boards if I truthfully 100% disagreed with my dx - don't you feel this way?

 

Cuz I really don't understand that - now that I've thought about it :huh: and I'm not being sh##ty or anything, I am just interested because I only know what I would do if I felt that way, and you aren't me so I don't know :)

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leeds_demon: Is it possible for you to go back and speak to the psychologist again, or maybe a different one who is clued up on AS?

 

A diagnosis of AS is a big thing - it was for me - and it is natural (and healthy, I think) to reflect on it. But you also have to be honest with yourself and the psychologist, especially as there is no easy way to diagnose AS. I suspect AS could be 'faked' in an assessment, but it can also be hidden: many people with it have spent much of their adult lives trying to compensate for or mask their 'differences', succeeding to greater or lesser extents (I count myself among that group!).

 

BTW, I can look people in the eye - it is a conscious effort to do so, and I do often find it disconcerting and uncomfortable - but they are not mutually exclusive. As a spectrum condition people are affected in very different ways, and a well-trained psychologist/psychiatrist is best placed to gauge that, but can only do so with the full cooperation of the person being assessed.

 

Only you can decide what's best, but if it was me, I'd want to go back to the diagnosing person for a serious chat.

Edited by gyroscope

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My personal opinion is you are either really an Aspie in denial or you have lied for a reason and whatever that reason is there will be a diagnosis for that as you appear to have some form of issue that is manefesting in your need to have attention ie lying to get a dx you don't seem to think is right - your many posts here all seem like you want attention so I agree with darkshine about why would you hang around a board for ASD when you are so sure you are not on the spectrum.

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Also having collections of things is not a pre-requsite for being an Aspie although many do have them not all - as has been said to you many many times before ASD's are spectrum conditions and everyone is different and wont have all the classic symptoms. To me your obsession with NOT being on the spectrum is indication you could be.

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im not happy with the way u just lied. there are some genuine people out there that need help like myself and u go and lie. what was u hoping to gain from lying in an assessment?

Accordign to the report, the Asperger questionnaire, which my parents filled in, lends some support to a diagnosis of AS. The second psychologist who saw me for a couple of follow-up sessions said that's impossible to lie regarding Asperger's and that due to my lack of abstract thinking and central coherence, I do have the condition.

But the initial report said I frequently say things that might cause offence, but I just gave one example. I do know that I can be aggressive towards people who annoy me.

I don't know whether I find eye contact disconcerting - but I do know that sometimes I can look at people and at other times, not look at people.

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@Special_talent123. Well don't read the thread. I was just pointing out that something in the report was incorrect; that I might have over empahasised. In the past I might have said things to some people, which might have offended them - but not on a frequent basis and I don't now make remarks that may offend people.

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If I don't hardly make comments that offend people, then I must have lied. However, the second psychologist, who I saw for follow up interviews, said it's impossible to lie, with regards to getting a diagnosis.

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Hi

 

Don't know what to say really, other than I hope you're right. It's so difficult to get the ball rolling in order to be assessed, and even more difficult (I say difficult, but mean it's a time consuming and emotionally draining experience) for a diagnosis to be reached. You owe it to yourself to be honest and I don't know you obviously, but wonder if there's a combination of self-doubt, panic, etc setting in. If that is the case, it's going to be difficult for you to progress with this (or certainly that's my guess). The other side of the coin is that whilst I think people can hide/conceal certain traits/characteristics, there are some things that cannot be hidden, and so I hope the right decision is reached as to whether or not you have AS. Really, you owe it to yourself to be honest with yourself as well as everyone else - just tell it like it is, and hopefully the specialist/s will make the right decision. At the risk of sounding really patronising, condescending, insulting, etc etc, can someone with AS be in the position to self-assess, and know with absolute surety? I think to some degree that may be possible, but ultimately it's best to rely on a team effort which includes experts (though, they don't always get things right).

 

Best wishes.

 

Caroline.

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Read your post a couple of days ago but have been waiting for verification to join the forum as a new member.

 

I feel my initial reaction holds true as advice to you. I recieved my diagnosis 2 years ago aged 44 with very mixed feelings at first. A lot of this was related to what my parents had said in their inputs and confusion as to how a diagnosis could be made in an hour and a half or so. I also kind of accepted that things would be difficult if I was on the spectrum to make a diagnosis because a lot of the times deperate to fit into normal social scenarios I have developed a lot of coping strategies which would mask problems to an extent. I felt going into the assesment session that I was capable of getting a negative answer if I wanted to by pre planning the perfect coping strategy and putting on an act. I didn't fake the assesment and felt I was pretty honest but deep down felt I was capable of being fraudulent if I wanted to, being fraudultent was something I did a lot for example putting on a false smile in social situations I didn't want to be in but had to. The point being that being fradulent is a feeling I have learn't to live with though I suspect it is not a natural part of my personality but a coping mechanism. I was also very analytical as I knew i was under sever scrutiny the second I went through the door, and this felt very invasive and personal. I think a natural reaction is to push back against such an invasion of our lives.

 

I accepted my diagnosis but reserved personal judgement as to 'how Aspie' I felt I was, a case of picking things from the diagnosis criteria which indicated a positive diagnosis and then initially finding real life example to show I was not that extreme in real life, hedged my bets both ways.

 

The thing which helped me a lot was being in the very fortunate position for the last few weeks at university to be part of a group of AS individuals. In the first session I was again thinking I was different but this was I guess down to being over twice the age of anyone else in the group. As the meetings progressed I simply saw more and more of myself in the other members of the group and started to feel very comfortable in their company and for the first time in my life felt part of something in a social scenario alongside my peer group. I could see they very definatly fittes AS criteria but felt like them rather than initialy seeing it in myself.

 

Over the past two years accepting my diagnosis has been a liberating factor for me. What I have now recognised is that I can decide as to how Aspie I want to behave in a lot of situations. This is not the same a being an Aspie one minute and not the next. I have a very developed set of coping strategies and I realise I am more fortunate than most in this respect. I can use these strategies but it takes a big effort when I do. In contrast when I am tired or simply decide to really let go and relax I exhibit very strong autistic traits, and to be honest this is the most comfotable and sustainable state for me to be in and this is why I know iI am an Aspie as you put it.

 

It is up to you to decide for yourself as to how you feel about the diagnosis. What I would polietly suggest is what do you feel in respect to your comfortable state. Everyone in life has to put an act on a lot of the time but it is how we relate to ourselves when we are away from this pressure. I would also say the diagnosis list is not something you have to tick all the boxes for to confirm a diagnosis, rather it is an indication of traits. I exhibit a lot of AS traits but others I would never demonstrate and many others are down to personality rather than AS. Take time to think things through my experience is that the time around my diagnosis was a massive period in my life with emotions flying all over the place. Reflect on the information and see how it pans out in reality over the next few months and then draw conclusions after all it is your diagnosis and at the end of the day it is your choice as to whether you agree to it or not. My guess is that as time passes things will fall into place one way or the other.

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The thing is, I have only said some, (what could be be seen to be), offensive, such as that I told my Mother I don't want to be like her, (this was whilst I was living at home). The second example was when I asked my lecturer why she didn't wear make up. These are the only two examples where I have said something that could be deemed 'offensive'.

I sometimes say things that get me wondering as to whether the person I have spoken to will take things the wrong way. Maybe that's what I meant. I don't know.

As follows, this is what my parents reported:

 

I was delayed in using and calculating numbers;

I was delayed in playing with other children;

I seemed to be unusually passive, (I'm now fairly aggressive when people annoy me. In fact, when I was sharing with my former housemate, she would have panic attacks because of my aggressive behaviour. If you want to get rid of a girlfriend/boyfriend/friend, just display behaviour that will make them have a panic attack);

I was unusually attached to a particular object, (although obviously this is now stopped);

I was frequently upset by particular sounds;

I had, (and still have), food fads;

I had, (and still have), difficulty in getting things in order when doing a task requiring organisation, and;

when I had a task that required a lot of thought, I tended to avoid or delay getting started.

 

So all you amateur clinical psychologists, have I Asperger's, or not, given that I don't say things to offend people, even though I cited one example and the assessor said that I frequently say things that might cause offence?

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Hi

 

Don't know what to say really, other than I hope you're right. It's so difficult to get the ball rolling in order to be assessed, and even more difficult (I say difficult, but mean it's a time consuming and emotionally draining experience) for a diagnosis to be reached. You owe it to yourself to be honest and I don't know you obviously, but wonder if there's a combination of self-doubt, panic, etc setting in. If that is the case, it's going to be difficult for you to progress with this (or certainly that's my guess). The other side of the coin is that whilst I think people can hide/conceal certain traits/characteristics, there are some things that cannot be hidden, and so I hope the right decision is reached as to whether or not you have AS. Really, you owe it to yourself to be honest with yourself as well as everyone else - just tell it like it is, and hopefully the specialist/s will make the right decision. At the risk of sounding really patronising, condescending, insulting, etc etc, can someone with AS be in the position to self-assess, and know with absolute surety? I think to some degree that may be possible, but ultimately it's best to rely on a team effort which includes experts (though, they don't always get things right).

 

Best wishes.

 

Caroline.

 

I was assessed in 2010.

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So all you amateur clinical psychologists, have I Asperger's, or not, given that I don't say things to offend people, even though I cited one example and the assessor said that I frequently say things that might cause offence?

 

Ooh a challenge - like "throw down" or the gloves are off and who dares step up ;)

 

It's really hard to say whether you have Asperger's or not using text alone - you say a lot of things that would suggest you think you don't have AS, but then you say a lot of things that suggest you think you do have AS - and since that is what you are saying - that is what is coming across, so that's all we have to go on.

 

The examples you gave about your assessments - offending people, eye-contact... well the way you answered literally could suggest AS - unless you decided to actually lie - but there's a difference in lying and in being literal or thinking in black and white terms - and using sweeping statements...

 

Anyway, there's more to a diagnosis than just those things - and even if you said the wrong answers, or answers you think were wrong after, that doesn't necessarily make your dx wrong - the people dealing with you might have seen that for what it was - they might have seen things you don't.

 

As I see it you have a few choices: Deny the dx. Ask for a second opinion or Accept the dx.

 

The choice is yours...

 

I have more questions :)

 

Are you afraid of having AS or something? Is that why you are really stressed about this? Or is it purely a panic that the things you have now got an issue with could make the dx invalid? In which case does it worry you to not be dx'd with AS?

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@darkshine. I'm applying for DLA and I don't want to apply for a benefot that I might not be entitled to, assuming that I did win the appeal and/or the policy person from the DWP decides that people with Asperger's is a disability that should merit DLA.

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If its that real a concern for you, I would recommend contacting the person(s) that did your dx and talk the matter over with them - as in ask for a meeting to discuss your concerns and see what their advice is - after all, this person(s) is in the best position to comment. It is what I would do if I felt as strongly about it as you seem to.

 

Best

 

Darkshine

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I don't think I'm a full "Aspie" either, as in I probably have something that crosses over with AS/ASD, or very similar, but Aspergers was an easy, safe, uncontroversial diagnosis to make, so it stuck with me... Perhaps it's something that is not yet a discovered medical condition as such, who knows? I'm never found myself similar to any other "Aspie" I've personally met, to be honest.

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Wow.

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I wouldn't dream of labelling or attempting to guess on way or another whether members have AS or not. But one thing that I think is worth pointing out is that although specialists have a checklist, ever person is an individual. No two people or Aspies are alike, although they may share some similarities/traits/characteristics (obviously there are things that are the same which arouse suspicion about AS in the first place). My son isn't what I'd call a classic Aspie, going by the various books, etc, and that's something that various professionals that have got to know him have commented on. For example, R eye contact can be non-existent to variable, he has a good sense of humour at times, doesn't alwas line things up, doesn't necessarily like order, etc. In other words, he doesn't tick every box. However, that doesn't mean he doesn't have AS or is't a full or proper Aspie. I therefore wonder if that can give cause for self-doubt in the case of one or two posters on this thread?

 

C.

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So anyway I contacted Sheffield Asperger's Syndrome Service. I spoke to one of the admin staff, who spoke to the clinical psychologist who assessed me. I made it very clear to Carly, that I may have over-exaggerated my ability to say things which might offend people. The next day, I spoke to Carly, who told me that Dr. Telford didn't just give the dx of Asperger's because of that little bit of information.

But the thing which I don't understand is this: there are lots of people who have strong aversions to certain foods/smells/tastes, but they're not given a label. There are people who can be quite aggressive, but they're no labelled as being 'autistic'. There are people who have really good long-term memories, but they're not told that they have Asperger's. There are plenty of people who don't like socialising, but they're not advised to see a clinical psychologist.

Likewise, there are plenty of adults who have temper tantrums, but they're not told that they are autistic.

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A year ago, when I was arguing my dx with a shrink, I said all of those things and more (I took a list of every trait I could find with arguments on each point).

 

In the end he made an appointment for 2 weeks time and told me to go home with my 4 page list of traits and look at which items on my list did not apply to me.

 

I could only find 3.

 

He reminded me that traits are not everything, that its the 3 core areas they were looking at and on them areas I ticked the boxes.

 

Even today, my parents say the things you have said, they do not accept my dx, they believe that everybody has these problems.

 

I still struggle to accept my dx, I still want to argue it, but that's really because I don't want to have these problems, and a year ago I thought that having AS meant that I was screwed, that I could never be "normal", I am slowly seeing that having AS does not mean I'm screwed, it just means that I find things harder and that I have to work harder at sorting things out.

 

Having said all this, I am in a pretty rational place right now (at 3am :rolleyes:) but in all honesty, I still read about AS to try to understand and comprehend it, and I still hope I'll find some piece of evidence to say that I don't have it - its just that when I'm rational I can see it makes sense.

 

I guess you have to do what you have to do, in order for you to be happy, and I can totally understand that.

 

PS - I have since come to the conclusion that no doctor/shrink/psychologist is going to admit they were wrong - so it could well be that unless you insist on a second opinion, you might well end up having to make up your own mind in the end - please bear this in mind

 

Best wishes

 

Darkshine

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One thing my sons psych said was that when she first met my boy, he was a bit of an anomaly in the world of ASD. While certain he was on the spectrum, he didnt tick all the boxes for any particular condition and was quite a challenge for her to work out.

That was about 10 years ago.

At his last apointment, she commented that this 'anomaly' strain she assumed my son had seemed to be blossoming as she now has several patients displaying difficulties/traits/insert word of choice here very similar with my boys...

ALmost like an evolution of the condition, was the sense I got.

You simply are not going to get an absolute answer as there arenotestsavailable,nothing tangible that one can point to toprove they are on the spectrum.....

I think its up to you to decide if your difficulties make your life difficult enough to warrant going with the DX, or questioning it, or ignoring it altogether.

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