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Emum

Nappies or not

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We've been trying to toilet train E for the last four months by putting her into grown up underwear and taking her to the toilet regularly. She is non verbal and although she uses PECs she isn't using her PECS toilet symbol to indicate she needs to go. She's happy to sit on the toilet and will occasionally use it, but we have many more accidents than successes. If she does have an accident she immediately takes off her wet or dirty clothes so she is aware that she has gone. I'm finding the constant cleaning up quite stressful. Her OT is dead set against the idea of putting her into pull ups and says she needs to know when she is wet or dirty to learn self control, and that this may take a year or more. Has anyone had any success toilet training without binning the nappy, or is it just a question of soldiering on for as long as it takes. BTW she is 4.

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I suppose it's hard if the OT is saying not to go back into nappies. That said, personally I would go back for a while it sounds to me as though she is not ready yet. Could have a try again in a couple of months.

 

Elaine

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Hi Emum,

 

My daughter is 3 1/2 and (almost ) fully toilet trained now but still doesn't know she needs to go until her bladder is very full. If we try and take her to the toilet before we go out she refuses to go because she says she doesn't need to BUT you can bet your bottom dollar that within 5 mins she'll have the biggest pee you've ever seen in your life !

 

I'm sure it's a sensory thing ie. the body not recognising the need to go until the feeling overwhelms them. I still put her in huggies pull ups which are a bit thinner for long car journeys etc as she she gets extremely upset if she does wet herself as she is literally soaked. It's a very tricky one as many people have told me I'm just confusing her by mixing real pants and pullups ( which she also wears at night)

but I honestly feel it's reducing her stress.

 

Go with your own instincts and good luck.

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Agree with following your instincts, I know going back to nappies made my son worse so was just left to deal with the constant washing and mopping up mess, summer is the better time as clothes drying is easier and most accidents happen outdoors.

 

Maybe some sort of reward for her, a sticker chart in the bathroom leading up to a treat for a full chart, even starting small like a sticker for even sitting on it, do it to suit you and your daughter, or even puttng a larger copy of the PECS card on the toilet seat (or in bathroom somewhere) so she knows which one to show for toilet (method used by a friend with non verbal)

 

These are only suggestions of methods I have known success with, all children are different and respond to different things but one I will suggest is only make one change at a time so as not to confuse her, I made the mistake of trying to do too much with my son and confused the heck out of him :oops:

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Have you looked at the TEACHH resources in toilet training? They have lots of suggestions. I put a link to the TEACHH website under resources.

 

FWIW I, too, think it's not feeling the need to go. For my son I think it was connected to his abnormal pain response (he just didn't feel any). This in turn I suspect is connected to the food allergy/intolerence difficulties: he was in constant discomfortand and couldn't differentiate what different pains meant. Aaaanyhooo, that's just my considered if alternative opinion.

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Just a thought, Huggies are advdertising a free potty training DVD just now- I think you just have to log on to their website - maybe the visual 'picture' of actually using the toilet may help.

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It took about 4 mths to toilet train my son. I decided to take the slow path once I realised conventional TT methods weren't going to work.

 

Thinking about it initially TTed him in a visual way. We started off by letting him run around at home bare bottomed. He never seemed to get he distinction between pull-ups and pants and wasn't bothered about wetting them. However watchign himself weeing on the floor upset him and he soon started taking himself off to the potty. We rewarded his efforts with chocolate buttons. We always kept the potty close to him so he could see it. Trying to get him to use the toilet didn't work as he'd either wet himself before he'd got there or it didn't just cross his mind. Used pullups if we were out, for naps, playing in the garden or if he was engrossed in something.

 

Once he got the hang of this put him in pants at home and then moved onto trousers. He still used the potty and rarely ever told us if he eneded to go. If the potty wasn't there he'd wet himself. Then a few months later it seemed to click. He started asking to go so we dispensed with the potty. Trips out were still a problem until it dawned on me he didn't realise there were toilets in the shops so spent some time taking him to the toilets when we were out. Then started the toilet obsession :wacko::hypno: (fascinating places with doors to bang too, hot air machines to repeatedly put on and off ;) ) but at least it meant he would happily use the loo whilst out.

 

Not sure if that is of any help to you but thought I'd share jsut in case

 

Liz x

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We had to soldier on - took 6 months to cotton on (daytime)

Problem seems to be centred around adverse reaction to touching toilet inherited from dad (also AS self-dx)

Going to school in sept

Still soiling in nappy at night

 

Lesley

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My eldest son was 4 when he finally got the hang of toilet-training. He just didn't seem to understand the concept of when to go and what to do. It also didn't help that he didn't seem to be able to feel when he needed to go either. Social Stories worked for him and suddenly it all seemed to make sense. As a back-up plan we also had a strip of symbols ready which showed each stage of what to do.

 

Good luck. :pray:

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My daughter is non verbal autistic too and I came to terms with the fact that she may not become toilet trained for a long time. We did sit her on the toilet regularly and school did likewise, but it won't work until they are ready for it. She was 6.5yrs when it suddenly just clicked into place with her. We were on holiday and it was a great novelty to go to the toilet in the caravan every two minutes and it all just snapped into place.

 

I'm very disappointed at your OTs attitude, some ASD children are much older when they get the hang of toileting, sometimes it's not knowing that they need to go, or a phobia or obsession, sometimes they just don't understand what they are supposed to do once they are sat on the toilet, if they don't understand what you say, how do they know that wee and poo goes in there? Can anyone else help you with nappies, your heath visitor or GP perhaps, you child obviously isn't ready yet so there is no point in everyone getting stressed and upset if she really just can't do it yet.

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Hello

 

I am beginning to consider myself obsessed with this issue and I am so glad you posted this thread.

 

My DS is three and 3/4. I am so wishing that we hadn't started toilet training when we did. It seemed his ideal time was last summer so as soon as the good weather started in May it was bare bottomed in the garden. He thought it funny to wee on the floor in the house but once he got over the novelty and clear disapproval combined with chocolate for using the potty he learnt this stage. Trying to add the pants and trousers has been a nightmare. If he is wearing them he doesn't sense he needs to go, doesn't ask, refuses if we hassle him to much then wets himself - too engrossed in what he is doing normally. When he started nursery in the September I put him back in nappies. We didn't have enough clothes to comtemplate giving them up and I thought the stress of starting nursery would just be to much.

 

I got lots of people telling me I was confusing him because even before that I had to take him out in nappies even if he didn't wear them at home. To be honest I don't think it made any difference.

 

On his third birthday nursery suggested 'no more nappies'. This we did and 9 months later there are still up to four pairs of pants and trousers to wash everyday. Sometimes more.

 

I am soo fed up of washing and cleaning, though mostly it is lots of little accidents and the carpet is usually spared, that when we are at friends houses or if they come to us I am putting a nappy on him. We seem to have two problems the sensation and knowing when to go and the fact he needs to go so often which I consider stress related.

 

It seems that actually wearing the nappy improves this, sometimes it comes off dry later on.

 

If I was doing it all again. I would have kept the nappy on and taken him to the toilet building up to doing this several times a day. When he could keep the nappy dry until the next 'potty time' then I would have considered taking it away.

 

My friend used this approach and although her DD is NT she is very sensitive. She virtually trained herself becasue more often than not she would ask to go to the toilet. Given her dry nappies her nursery suggested they were pointless and she ought to wear pants. She had loads of accidents. The nappies came back for a while and then eventually she was given the choice. There would be no mixing it had to be big girl knickers or baby nappies. She chose the big girl option and she has been dry and clean ever since. This was at two years old. I don't think sticker charts ever featured.

 

Sorry this has gone on. I am helping myself make sense of it as well.

1) My son knows wee and poo go in the toilet if you ask him. He can't necessarily apply it to real life.

 

2) If their nappies are always wet with no dry intervals there is n't a lot of point training them.

 

3) I should have trusted my instincts. I worked from a point of view that if you don't teach them what to do they will never learn. However at the back of my mind I questioned him being ready. I always thought the one step at a time was best, somehow I ended up with the potty training in a week formula and it has been a complete disaster.l

 

4) You have to do what works for you. I feel like I have lost over a year of our time being obsessed with going to the toilet in the right place. In the long term quality of life is more important. I am shocked with how long we have been doing this and I am

horrified it has taken over my life. For the last nine months conversations with my DH about DS's day feature what we did, how hungry he was, whether he behaved well and how many pairs of trousers he wore. Very sad. It has got to stop!

 

5) We are going on holiday for two weeks in August. We are going abroad and I want to enjoy my holiday. It is costing a lot of money and we haven't had a big holiday for five years. DS will be wearing nappies! I'll worry about the consequences when we get home.

 

6) Take it slowly.

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Nick is nine....he has accidents every day...soiling in his pants.

 

We went away for camping last weekend...and I got some dry nites with us, as he also has smear accidents in pyjamas always. So while having husbands daughter with us it was horrible, he constantly was in fears she could find out....

 

He also had one known accident in school recently and after cleaning and coming back to the class some of the boys in his class watched inside the back where his dirty pants were. You probably imagine how he gets picked on now...and the boys have spread the word to the girls....

 

Other as that we only use dry nites sometimes at night...the only occassion we used them during day was the past weekend while being away, as it is hard to wash out his pants in privacy and clean him as well....

 

We should get a referal to a specialist soon...I hope and pray as my son is very distressed about it all, but still wont sit long enough on toilet to do it there and only if he has terrible tummy ache...

 

SylvXX

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I'm so glad to have found this post, I was going to do a post like this myself.

 

Max is 4 & half, and nursery wanted to start toilet training him last month, as they thought he seemed aware. No complaints about nursery the teacher and Max's TA are fantastic, and say he has got enough change in September (big school), so try and start this before. OK we say we'll give it a go.

 

Well, I hate it. Weve got 2 different battles, firstly Max hates pants, and secondly he doesn't know when he needs the loo..I think.

 

He goes to nursery in a pull-up, they change him into pants, and take him to the toilet lots of times, he pulls pants down, sits on the loo, then nothing, they then draw him a smiley face on his toilet-chart for being a good boy and trying, cus they don't want anything negative.

 

He then comes home, Kev takes him to the toilet, again he sits on, and nothing. 5 minutes later will wet himself and take everything off and ask for nappy.

 

So, at the weekend, he had his swim trunks on all day, cus of paddling pool in garden and neighbours kids about. He liked them and kept em on all day (probably pee'd in the pool :rolleyes: ). They were the short type trunks. So...off I go to Tesco and buy some boxers for him thinking they are higher waisted, and little shorts and not so tight...after much tickling and playing and calling em "trunks" instead of "pants", he is wearing em for 2 hours in the morning. A good start I think, as we couldn't get pants (like knickers) on at home at all, but he wants a pull-up on for nursery. Off to nursery and repeats the whole thing.

 

I think we are making some progress in that weve got him to wear his "trunks", but thats about it. I'm not convinced and finding it all really stressful. When we go on hols in August its pull-ups all the way.

 

All the so called experts say if we don't start now, he will get past the age of learning it, and never learn, so we have to teach him by rote. We will keep trying, but am worried about the stress on Max.

 

Yesterday he told me "pants are bad because nappy is good", then "nappy is good because pants are bad!". I was stumped at that one. Today he said "trunks are good, nappy is bad", so ?????

 

Any ideas anyone?

 

Jo

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We tried boxers too but gave up as it didn't hold the poo in very well - I think the last straw was having to clean out his wellies...

 

Lesley...

:sick:

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Hi all.....

 

Know this one only tooooooooo well!

 

My son is 9 and sometimes "forgets" and he dosent bother telling me......he hides his pants....and I find them some time later in the oddest places! :lol:

 

He was late coming out of nappies too. What we found is that he was either to engrossed....or not sure what the feeling meant.

 

We brought him a watch with an alarm. We set it for every hour and put it in his pocket....when the alarm sounded....he went loo....even if he had done one the last time!

 

Eventually.......he knew that the alarm meant toilet....and gradually...the alarm time was incresed (1 hour 10 mins), until one day we went shopping for the day and "forgot" his watch. By that time......the ritual was so set in....he just kept asking to go anyway!

 

If your kiddie has trouble recognising the urge........then an idea like this could work....because your not working on a feeling....your working on a routine!

 

Best of luck

 

Lisa

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I have heard about the watch idea before. If we still are not having any luck on the approach to school age I think I will try this out then.

 

The way I see it is thatI judged his awareness by him being able to say he had done a wee/poo but thinking about it this was either during or after the event rather than associated with the feeling of needing to go.

 

One reason I think the watch would be brilliant is because it would mean I wouldn't have to remember to take him. Maybe I am a really bad mother but remembering to take someone to the loo every twenty minutes (nursery suggestion!) didn't work. I found I got engrossed in something :rolleyes: and even if I set the oven timer I would get distracted, usually by DS, on the way to set it for another twenty minutes. This approach would take the human error factor out of the equation.

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my son wore pull ups until he was 6 at night, but then he refused to wear them at all and we had wet beds for the next four years!

he still has the occasional accident and hes 12.

 

 

good luck! :wub:

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I REALLY WOULDN'T WORRY ABOUT THE TOILET TRAINING THING. C IS 4 AND NEARLY TRAINED THROUGH THE DAY BUT STILL USES NAPPIES AT NIGHT.WE TRIED THE NIGHT TRAINING AND HE WASN'T READY.CONTACT YOUR HEALTH VISITOR AND ASK ABOUT FREE NAPPIES DON'T KNOW IF IT IS DIFFERENT FOR DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE CONTRY BUT I GET THEM FOR C ALSO GOT SOME KYLE PADS FOR THE BED. :) IT'S WORTH A TRY.

 

 

WHEN SHES READY IT WILL HAPPEN JUST DON'T PUSH HER IT WILL ONLY TAKE LONGER!

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Hi Emum

 

Totally know what you are going through re toilet training. My son has started school and is still in nappies. I used to get very stressed about this but now what i do is nappies at school and then boxer shorts in the house. I think he is slowly started to click. He will be toilet trained when he is ready. I always think to myself - every goal that has been set for him, might take a very long time but he will do it.

Last night he put his shoes on for the first time and a sock - waited a very long time to see him do that!

 

 

Lesley - I know what you said about boxer shorts. I did have an incident like you said and had a smile on my face.....................

 

 

x

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Success !!!! :D

 

Max has now worn his boxers in the day for 3 weeks. I decided after watching him happily using the potty (when running round with nothing on), that he had the control, so I decided after reading up some more on this fantatic website (that means all of you), that we would go cold turkey.

 

Day 1, he begs for nappies, I kept saying "nappies all gone, Max wear trunks" (our name for boxers, pants a no go). Max screaming, kicking fighting, but wore em, and used the potty for wees.

 

Day2, exactly the same, couple of poo accidents

 

Day3, hell, 7 changes of boxers, many wee and poo accidents, he was definately trying to break us

 

Day 4, he gave up, and from then on beautifully weeing and pooing on the potty, no accidents either in or out of the house.

 

then yesterday I said "were going to Tescos go and do a wee", he usually totally ignores me, he said "I wee on the toilet", and off he went to the bathroom....;well we couldn't belive it, gave us "big happy faces", thats how Max knows were happy.

 

Can you believe it, so off to school Monday (first day in reception), boxers on, spares in the bag, 1:1 primed, I'm totally stressed over it, but hey thats another story.

 

Hooray for my Max (he is 5 in 3 weeks btw).

 

thanks everyone for your support and ideas

 

Jo

 

:wub:

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I am right bang in the middle of pottying training my 3 3/4 yr old dd. We have tried several times with no avid and I was beginning to think she would never come out of nappies. Then a few weeks back she announced she needed a wee, i took her and sat her on the toilet and she wee'd!! This was a miracle, up till now she had never done a wee on a potty or a toilet!

 

So knowing that she could now do it, I made my own star chart using a picture of her, a picture of a toilet and some pictures of her favourite sweets. All she had to do was 3 wees which meant getting 3 stars and she got sweets. I even got some smiley star stickers and put faint star shapes on the star chart so she could see where to put them. The whole thing was purely visual.

 

We pinned it up the night before, talked about it, she then told her doll about (in her own lanuage) and the next morning we started and I have to say its worked pretty well, she has the odd accident and its more us taking her to the toilet than her asking to go, but its pretty good. Poo's of course are another thing, but we will get there in the end.

 

I suppose what Im trying to say is you really cant push them into potty training until they are ready themselves and remember you see phew adults wearing nappies :P

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