will humans have the intelligence in the futre to save the sun?

[A-S warrior]

5 billion years from now the sun will swell up to 1000 times its present size and become a red giant star, it will vaporise mercery and venus and bake earth. in less than 1 billion years this phase of the suns life will begin, earths seas will evaporate into space and earth will become hot and dry. earth at this stage will be very simular to venus. even our most distant planet pluto will become unbearabley hot. the question is can futre humans save the sun? can we perhaps refuel the sun and top up it hydorgen levels? thus saving the sun from using other fuels causing the sun to expand in this way? or will we migrate to a simular earth like planet? or will we have the heat and radiation resistance capabillitys to withstand the heat? and then plant a new sun in space? let me know what you think..

Edited March 23, 2012 by A-S warrior

[darkshine]

I think humans as a species will be long dead by the time that happens to the sun

 

(Humming a death march to go with this happy view)

 

Edited March 23, 2012 by darkshine

[Dartman]

I agree with darkshine - we'll either have become extinct, or humanity will have found a way to colonise nearby solar systems.

 

As to the Sun becoming a red giant and then exploding, we can't really stop that - the Sun is 1,000 times the size of the Earth, and because of the way it creates energy (from nuclear fusion) it will fuse heavier elements as the star ages - each fusion requires more and more energy, and by the time the Sun tries to fuse iron, the amount of energy needed to fuse will probably exceed the amount of energy given off in heat and light.

 

Currently, the Sun is fusing hydrogen- 1, so two hydrogen-1 atoms fuse to make a helium-2.

 

Helium fuses to make beryllium, beryllium fuses to make oxygen, etc etc. I'm not an expert on fusion, but the periodic table of elements can help to explain the elements and their atomic masses (their atomic numbers). I'm also a chemistry fan.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periodic_table

[A-S warrior]

I think humans as a species will be long dead by the time that happens to the sun

 

(Humming a death march to go with this happy view)

 

 

 

lol i could watch those two battle all day

[A-S warrior]

I agree with darkshine - we'll either have become extinct, or humanity will have found a way to colonise nearby solar systems.

 

As to the Sun becoming a red giant and then exploding, we can't really stop that - the Sun is 1,000 times the size of the Earth, and because of the way it creates energy (from nuclear fusion) it will fuse heavier elements as the star ages - each fusion requires more and more energy, and by the time the Sun tries to fuse iron, the amount of energy needed to fuse will probably exceed the amount of energy given off in heat and light.

 

Currently, the Sun is fusing hydrogen- 1, so two hydrogen-1 atoms fuse to make a helium-2.

 

Helium fuses to make beryllium, beryllium fuses to make oxygen, etc etc. I'm not an expert on fusion, but the periodic table of elements can help to explain the elements and their atomic masses (their atomic numbers). I'm also a chemistry fan.

 

http://en.wikipedia..../Periodic_table

 

 

 

ahhhhh intelligent convosation i love it, i hope this topic has some miles in it, i love this kind of talk.

[LancsLad]

I do not believe we will be capable of saving the sun, the other question is will we develop solutions in time to save our own planet in the next few hundred years.

 

I think the key component in seeking an answer to this further question is intelligence. I tend to think and work in this area developing concepts of how we might live in sustainable populations integrating ideas together. I think as a species we do contain people within it who are intelligent enough to solve these complex issues. What I am finding both within myself and in reading the work of others is that this intelligence often comes with very high levels of ethical thinking. As a result many people like myself are now thinking when we come up with solutions do we think the human species is worth it?

 

The more an more I think about it I come to a belief that the planet is worth saving for sure it is such a beautiful and remarkable thing, but the human species no, the planet would be better off without us. I do believe solutions will be found for many of our current issues, will they be put forwards or will they be witheld on ethical grounds I am not too sure. We are now seeing in the NHS for example refusal to undertake clinical opperations on individuals who are severely obesse as they show no indication that this would be a good investment in resources. I see many of the human species in the same way as greedy self indulgent individuals who have no desire whatsoever to change their behaviour patterns rather it is someone elses responsibility to ensure thier own quality of life.

 

To give an example I have been working on tidal greenhouse concepts for the past few weeks. The concept of eco domes located on tidal margins in which food can be harvested and grown in sustainable ways to provide high quality cardohydrate/protein rich diet for a community. A lot of my recent thinking is about internal structures to support the domes profile so that condensation is collected and passed into storage as a zero energy desallination concept to provide fresh water. I have been working on this whilst at the same time we have had the anouncement of hose pipe bans in the South East, and we continue to promote the concept that this is the best area of the country to go and live in yet it has the poorest natural resource bank of any region. The answer from the inhabitants of this region is to pipe water in from other parts of the country, no need to modify your behaviour there then, instead we all have to share the costs. Rather dig up our natural landscape causing environmental damage, unbalance natural ecosystems all because of the concept of the 'economic city'. It is against this daily backdrop that I work and wonder is it worth it are these people deserving of any solutions.

 

Whilst some are capable of developing intelligent solutions, I think societies in general have to be prepared to answer the ethical question are you deserving of such intelligence being invested in you or not?

[darkshine]

lol i could watch those two battle all day

Mesmerising isn't it? lol

 

:star: :star: :star:

 

Sorry back to the topic

 

What I am finding both within myself and in reading the work of others is that this intelligence often comes with very high levels of ethical thinking. As a result many people like myself are now thinking when we come up with solutions do we think the human species is worth it?

 

The more an more I think about it I come to a belief that the planet is worth saving for sure it is such a beautiful and remarkable thing, but the human species no, the planet would be better off without us.

 

I see many of the human species in the same way as greedy self indulgent individuals who have no desire whatsoever to change their behaviour patterns rather it is someone elses responsibility to ensure thier own quality of life.

 

Whilst some are capable of developing intelligent solutions, I think societies in general have to be prepared to answer the ethical question are you deserving of such intelligence being invested in you or not?

 

My thoughts exactly, and said much better than I could have (sorry for the major edit though)

[chris54]

When I was young, I remember a time when we were all being told we were heading for utopia. A world in which energy would be so plentiful that we would not have to pay for it. One of our biggest problems for the human race would be trying to find things to occupy our leisure time as we would all only need to work one or to days a week. It doesn't look much like it will ever be like that.

 

I tend not to spent to much time thinking about the distant future. I find it all to depressing. As I see it we will end up extinct because we have used up all the earths resources, or we will blow the place up either by accident or on purpose.

 

The real challenge as I see it is how long we can put this off.

 

As for the idea of establishing a colony on some distant planet, well we got to the moon and found there was nothing of use there. Next stop Mars. But how much of the worlds dwindling resources does a future generation spend sending a few people off in an ark hoping to find a new world.

 

Will we have the intelligence, Our intelligence has not increase much for hundreds of thousands of years, we just have more knowledge.

Edited March 24, 2012 by chris54

[A-S warrior]

well we are discovering many distant galaxys that have simular earth like planets all the time, i wouldnt rule out a potental new home planet. do i belive in aliens? naaah, but i do belive in a suitable new planet to migrate to. some alterations would have to be made to make it 100% liveable i.e tinker with certain ratios of elements in the atomosphere, and that leads me again to my origanal post, would futre humans have the technology to pull this off? im sure if i was to ask some of the more mutre members on here, did you ever immagion being able to do your weekly shop on your iphones in your lunch break? or talking to a guy in ausralia on your laptop when you were younger? the pace at witch our technoligy grows is staggering, im 21 and rember my nokia 3210 and that was only 10 years ago! now we have all these crazy phones with all sorts of gagets, so if in 10 years we went from black and white pixel screens to watching movies in h-d on your mobile think what we can acomplish in a billion years from now, (thats provided we,re not wiped out by then, not even the dinosaurs lived that long so we have a challange keeping our spices alive)

[Sally44]

The sun cannot be saved.

 

But from its death it will capapult chemical elements into space that may start life on another planet????

 

I think alot of technology being developed as eco friendly and self sufficient may enable groups of people to leave earth on some kind of space craft, with the idea that they would live and travel on that craft for years, or even generations as it could take many generations to reach any suitable planet.

 

Who would be chosen to go on such a mission???

 

I think there will be some catastrophe on earth - whether it is a collison with earth from a meteor, or a deadly virus, or war, or starvation and climate change - who knows - take your pick.

 

I must admit that I like TV programmes that show these types of scenarios. Law and Order and Society breaks down very quickly when there is no electricity, communication via TV or phones etc.

 

I like the fact that all kinds of seed varieties are already kept and stored for future potential use.

 

I wish that skills could be recorded and not lost. If "society" disappeared overnight, how would people survive without their phone, TV, car, job, shops, supermarkets, government and police?

 

As far as I can see, energy [in all its forms, including food production] is the biggest problem facing us. The population is increasing at an alarming rate, and modern farming methods will become unsustainable in the not too distant future. How can we return to earlier methods, when that won't provide even half of the food we currently produce? Who is prepared to take a drastic drop in their standard of living from good or luxury [compared to other countries], to just basic survival?

[chris54]

If you look back over human existence you will see that technological advances have gone in big steps, but the steps are separated by long periods of no advancement. 50 years ago no one foresaw the advancement in communication technology that have happened over the last couple of decades. But what happened to those house hold robots we were all going to have to do our house work.

 

When was the internal combustion engine invented? About 150 years ago. The car? 100 years ago. The design of both have been tweaked a bit over the years but we are still using the same planet destroying basic design.

 

It is very hard to predict which way technological development will go. What drove the advance in technology that led to the development of the Internet and what has followed was the need to develop a communication system that would continue to function in the event of a nuclear war.

 

In terms of the earths existence we have only been around for a very short time, and at the rate we are going, the earth will be around for a very long time after we have gone.

[chris54]

The main cost of the Internet is at the moment being met by the American government.

The sat nav system which is now relied on so much is once again something that was developed and payed for by the American government for military purposes.

European government are looking to establish an alternative sat nav system in case the US decide to turn theirs off, or go back to the restricted use that we use to have.

[Sally44]

Household robots??

 

I want to know what happened to the "three day working week" that Tomorrows World said [in the 1970's] that we would all be working in the 1980's.

 

Actually, they should do a re-run of tomorrows world and their "predictions".

[LancsLad]

I think I have been able, along with other people I know to predict what will happen. In truth it all seems a bit too slow rather than too fast. I think history is very important in helping us understand things and that there are phases in the development of human civilisation. We are currently in a technological phase which like all phases will more or less run its course. Personally I think it is nearing it natural conclusion as the driving element in 'advanced' societies. That does not mean there will not be technological advancement rather the pace of change will be significantly reduced due to a lack of scientific advancement or resources. What will happen is that something else will emerge as a driving force in a new age.

 

Personally I believe that the next phase will be the 'ethical era'. I am not too sure whether we will see a gradual transfare and a slowly emerging ethical culture emerging to the forefront, or whether there will be a one off or a series of events which act as a catalyst in the same way two World Wars pushed forwards development in the last century. The fact that we will have to move into a new era is inevitable or we will become extinct as a species. Of course the last throws of any era are always epitomised by a reluctance of the powerbase to give up control. As we see the industrial revolution as an era connected to concepts of empire, the technological era has its links with capatilist corporations. In this respect technology is not the problem in us moving forwards rather its associated power base. This power base has interests in perpetuation the notion that its symbiotic partner has the answers for the worlds issues. What we are seeing is that neither is currently delivering such answers nor will they be capable of doing so in the near future as such technology as a cure for all problems is a falshood.

 

I am not sure if we will reach an era in out civalisations advancement when we are capable or have the desire to populate other worlds. What I do believe is if we do reach that era it will not be as a continuation of our existing technological age, rather there will need to be a number of interim phases we go through before reaching that point. I think the big question is as a species are we capable of moving through those phases in our evolutionary proccess? I have no doubt we will in future be able to achieve everything which is in Star Trek for example. But Star Trek fails to answer the question as to how mankind managed to live and work its way out of a historical period of inequality, injustice and greed, rather it is easier to paint a utopian picture which we all respond to.

 

Just a few thoughts.

[Dartman]

This is what the Sun might look like before it blows:

 

 

Key to elements (lightest to heaviest)

 

H - Hydrogen

He - Helium

C - Carbon

O - Oxygen

Ne - Neon

Mg - Magnesium

Si - Silicon

S - Sulphur

Ni - Nickel

Fe - Iron, the last element the Sun will create before exploding.

 

When the Sun does explode, it will take the whole Solar System with it. It will also spew the elements inside of it out into space, and the hydrogen (and dust) that is left will form a nebula; the birth place for the new 'Sun' or more stars.

[A-S warrior]

This is what the Sun might look like before it blows:

 

 

Key to elements (lightest to heaviest)

 

H - Hydrogen

He - Helium

C - Carbon

O - Oxygen

Ne - Neon

Mg - Magnesium

Si - Silicon

S - Sulphur

Ni - Nickel

Fe - Iron, the last element the Sun will create before exploding.

 

When the Sun does explode, it will take the whole Solar System with it. It will also spew the elements inside of it out into space, and the hydrogen (and dust) that is left will form a nebula; the birth place for the new 'Sun' or more stars.

 

 

 

that was a good post, ive seen a few artist impressions of what the sun will look like in the sky at this stage, it will look awsome but unforunetley i will be long dead and my ashes will be re cremated! i might post up a few pics myself.

[darkshine]

Brilliant diagram

[A-S warrior]

sun tan anyone?

Edited March 26, 2012 by A-S warrior

[A-S warrior]

im a bit of an astronaut in my spear time lol might start a space travel topic.

Edited March 27, 2012 by A-S warrior

[darkshine]

I really love the movement in that picture - if you get what I mean... It's so fluid it's almost violent

[Sally44]

War/weapons tends to be the driving force for new technology.

 

But if we ever DID manage to get some people off plant earth, would that be part of a programme before any catastrophe? Or as something we were capable of doing, but forced to do a mass evacuation?

 

And whatever the cause is - how will "they" [whoever 'they' are] choose who gets to go and who gets to stay?

[Nickay12]

I guess we will have to survive the Andromeda - Milky Way Collision first...

[darkshine]

When's that gonna happen

[Nickay12]

I dont know, they are not telling me... Not too soon I hope, I've still got stuff to do..

[darkshine]

Me too I'm way behind on life - gotta lot of catching up to do!

[darkshine]

A future venture

 

http://www.space.com/15336-planetary-resources-space-exploration-announcement.html

 

And a prophecy of the end of the world...

 

http://the-end.com/2008GodsFinalWitness/?gclid=CIH-mYeL868CFY5pfAodBT7QVQ

 

I still think we'll die way before the sun becomes a red giant and consumes us all