Aggression

[vikstar]

How do you deal with aggressive out burst especially when its aimed at you . Im struggling with my 131/2 year old daughter she has aspergers dcd gad and is pretty depressed a the mo started her periods about 6 months ago and was aggressive before then but at the moment she has become reall bad hitting me her little sisters screaming shouting throwing her self about lashing out at doors wall anything that she comes in contact with . All the time she has done this its mainly been in the home enviroment as she says she cant do it anywhere else as she needs to keep the pretense up of being " NORMAL " . Shes never happy at the moment im guessing its the whole teenage years added hormones etc must be so difficult plus the added difficulty of having aspergers . Im not fully confident that she accepted that she has it and blames me alot by saying " its your fault im like this you made me be born "

Sorry turned into a mini rant but i want to do the best for her and im getting to the point where im a bit scared of this aggresion xx

[JeanneA]

Hi vicstar I do sympathise with what you are going through. My son was was and still can be very aggressive and he is 18. He is now in a care home as I couldn't cope with him anymore, his aggression just got worse he was hitting himself regularly and me, I was concerned about his and my own safety as it seems you are also.

 

You really need to get some kind of support for all of you, you have to think of your other children to and what they are going through being attacked by your daughter, they need protecting. There must be someone you can go to, i.e. your G.P., SS, other professionals, does your daughter see a paediatrician at all? she really needs help and support as soon as possible, you cannot go on as you have been doing. Your daughter may need somewhere she can go when she gets so aggressive, a room maybe with sensory items in it, soft blocks, bean bags anything that may help, might help calm her down, pillows she could punch perhaps it could help, therefore she hopefully wouldn't take her anger out on you or your other children.

 

Please do try and get some help, school of course is another route to take, ask their advice also.

Teenage years and hormones certainly don't help as I am well aware with my son. Look forward to hearing from you and please do insist on help, sometimes you just have to keep putting pressure on these professionals to make them listen! Take care.

Edited May 2, 2012 by JeanneA

[trekster]

Sounds like angry depression to me and that is really difficult to treat. Would she accept the depot injection? You get them every 12 weeks

and if PMT (or PMDD) are a major problem maybe that's the way to go?

 

Good luck, ive been through angry depression as well. Will she read books about autism? Will she meet other autistics?

 

I also agree with a sensory room so your daughter can have some defrag time. Does she have her own room where she can

retret to when she gets in from school? i used to do this stay in my room playing pc games i found socialising far too overloading.

[A-S warrior]

when i was being a little ###### when i was a kid, my mum would just hug me really tight, not in a loving way but just to restrain me. i hated being hugged but this tactic always seemed to work.

[trekster]

If someone did that when i was having a meltdown I would hit them instinctively as it would be perceived as an attack.

[Aspiemumto1]

This is really difficult to deal with. When my daughter was smaller I used to hug her. I would sit her on the floor, sit behind her and hug her, rocking her back and forth until she calmed down. Obviously now she is 16 I cant do that.

 

I was reading on here yesterday how a lady used the happy path and angry path with her teenager. Explained the consequences of actions, how if they get angry what the path will be with everyone getting upet, and taking the happy path by not having a meltdown/getting angry. Im not explaining it very well, sorry. I tried it with my two yesterday and it seemed to diffuse the situation quite well, but the aggression is not aimed at me.

 

Have you been back to the GP. I had to keep going back to my GP before we got anywhere. The other thing I tried was I contact MIND. In our area there is a support group called Route97 which is run by MIND specifically with young people. It might be worth giving them a call to see if they can help.

[LancsLad]

Hi Vikstar. Felt it might be an idea to try and add some advice from my own perspective, like all advice feel free to take it or leave it, comments welcome.

 

I think there are some good points made what I would like to add to the post is how we view ourselves as adults. I have been a teacher, a sports coach, and importantly a foster carer in short term and emergency situations. As such I have come across a lot of very agressive behaviour in my time often where other adults are involved and not making much progress. I think the key to dealing with such situations is 'calm assertivness'. I am not trying to blow my own trumpet here but have come across other individuals who are good at sorting out situations and its easy to see what we all have as common strategies, these are skills and can be learn't and practiced. I would go as far as to say that kids who are being aggressive very often are very aware of these skills and how they work and if you can engage them in the process it is often like flicking a switch and responses can be quite immediate.

 

As someone with AS though I didn't know it at the time I have always been a very carefull observer of other people in trying to make sense of the world. The first time I really saw these skils in opperation was in a very difficult initial teaching practice in Tower Hamlets in London, I was struggling with a lot of the childrens behaviour but was on practice with a fellow student who seemed to have a real understanding of how to deal with difficult situations I learn't so much from them. A lot of people come onto the forum and say their children are so much bigger than them and they are worried. This female student stood at 4ft 8in, she must have weighed about 6 stone, there was nothing of her physically so its not about sex or size, rather attitude. My partner is also 5ft tall and has had no problems with 17 year old large lads in our care. I say this because I often get a reaction of "it's all right for you" type response which for me often is about the fact people are not open minded to explore their own behaviours.

 

A lot of times in life we mirror behaviours and emotions, if I smile at you you will possibly smile back if I yawn you might too in a few minutes. Mirroring behavious and emotions is about making connections. The first thing to do in any situation is to make a connection with the individual, it is important that we only try to move on in dealing with something once this connection is made. Eye contact is a good early sign, when they follow a simple request, take a deep breath, sit down, lets go to the kitchen, then we know the connection is there. If things start to break down then we need to reconnect.

 

A lot of the time when faced with agressive behaviour it is surprising how often adults mirror it, they simply get aggressive back. I could not possibly count the amount of times in school for example where I have been called to an incident with a pupil and teacher over what I later find out to be a realitvely small thing and there is a full blown battle of wills taking place, and to be honest at times its been harder to deal with the adult. The lesson here is we can not mirror the behaviour but we need to mirror the emotion. Words such as "XXXX (individuals name, really important) I can see you are angy, I get angry at times, I have some idea about how you might be feeling" or "XXXX I can see you are frustrated.....". This response is about mirroring an emotion. This is the first clue to the individual there is no need to carry on the behaviour message recieved loud and clear. It might take a few go's if things are really heated. When you think this initial message is across then it is about establishing connections and starting to negotiate an outcome. Make eye contact and put in a little request to act as confirmation. I would then give them a cool down option either with you or on their own. I think it is important to establish that we ourselves are important so often I would say I have a few things to do for 10 minutes, they need doing, but then I will give you some quality time, do you want to shadow me or tell me where to find you. If they want space then tell them "I trust you, see you in a bit might be 15 minutes at most (stick to your word on this) see you in a bit". Using this approach I have never had anyone run off. A lot of the time kids will choose to shadow but don't talk about the incident, thats why you need a task make one up if needed, its all about breathing and thinking space for both parties. I would then find a quality space with which to deal with things.

 

In respect to space we need to reach an outcome where both people are respectfull of anything which is decided this is about negotiation. Often when we take power games into negotiations the outcomes are not respectfull. I have watched for example adults stand over kids and tell them off and the kids have said whatever the adult needed to get away from an intimidating situation and I have known they will repeat the behaviour again as nothing has been achieved. At times it makes us feel strong to use a physical presence but it is a mistake to do so, I would always advise sitting down on equal height chairs. For many of you this might be about taking some of that physical presence out of the equation when you feel the child is that much bigger than you. I think things like seating angles are really important completely face to face is way too confrontrational, we are not Jerremy Paxman' so once the individual is sat set your own chair to be slightly open and at a good distance, practice this with someone and you wil get a feeling for what is right in respect to angle and distance. This set up is important as it gives off clues to others. If I was in my office and another member of staff saw a set up like this their gut instict is to say "sorry, I'll come back later" the clue is in the room, its about making the effort and giving the right signals. With ASD kids think about environmental factor, close to radiators, sun shinning of face etc... get this right once and have a good outcome often through association we can build very strong links as to the process we are about to engage in. When you might go to the same set up in a kitchen for example three or four times with good outcomes I have seen kids in our care set the room up for me for their weekly chat, for this reason get it right first time and life is so much easier.

 

The next stage is to get the individual to explain from the begining what happened. Very often I will imediatly interupt them and take them back a bit further, what was the lesson before like, what was home like this morning before coming to coacjhing, what has the last week been like in your residential school. So often thats where the emotion has started to generate from the poor behaviour is simply the reaction. Often kids and adults find difficultyl in recollecting events without adding the emotion in, expect this. What we need to do is break the cycle we want the facts but without the emotion of anger, frustration attatched. This is about mirroring emotions and behaviour again but it is our turn to lead. Stop them and explain I am sat here relaxed, open minded, calm and am prepared to listen. I want you to sit there relaxed, open minded, calm and tell me slowly what happened. This is what I mean about 'calm assertivness' you need to be in charge of the emotional context. At this point you often havn't got a clue yet about what the real issue will be but when it comes out it is about being in the right time and place to deal with it.

 

Very often in these discussions new emotions will emerge and we have to go through the process again of mirroring back the emotion and showing our level of empathy. I am not very good at this next point but know many others who are and that is body language can often indicate hidden emotional states and this can be tracked and draw out if you are good. If the child is explaining some facts and their body gives off a feeling of frightened, inside they will be frightened. You need to recognise this and say "you were frightened by this wern't you?" Its all about building connections.

 

There comes a point where the evidence will be out and that includes often background stuff, we are about dealing with individuals and often there are other things which come into the equation it is important that we do not abandon them and try and deal with what we can. At this point it is in my experience about changing modes and that is about getting solution orientated. What can we do to make sure that in future there is a better outcome. I would tend to deal with practical stuff first such as working out a new routine, changing something environmental, sit next to me at dinner time and not your brother, whatever. I think the individual then thinks were are moving forwards with things. At this point, and in my experience only this point do you introduce the concept of a punishment for the behaviour. Punishment needs to be seen as part of the solution. I know from experience a lot of kids at school then think 'hey i thought I had got away with this by being mature'. For me punishments are about sealing off an event about creating closure. If you put it to a child they are often embarassed about what has happened and what they want is closure. If you think they will find the punishment hard I often introduce something more severe, "I was going to give you two detentions one this week and one next, but because you have been mature and impressed me I feel the right thing to do is reduce it to one". In various situations when kids did not act reasonablyy I would be very hard on them, reputations soon get out and they know you will go one of two ways and so there are options available.

 

I think the last element is how to close the discussion. I think there needs to be action points and some follow up. An action point might be this is how you need to behave next week I will be watching or asking other peoples opinions on how well you have done. Often when a member of staff had a bit of a downer on a particular kid I would solicit the opinions of one or two of the kids class mates, who were more than happy to be honest. I think you then have a responsibility to give feedback. "I watched you this week, or I spoke with your friends and they say you are trying really hard, well done". Often we forget to give feedback and kids put the effort in and then think "what was the point in all of that they really don't care do they". A lot of this is about organisation and making notes and checking them, a diary works well for this.

 

In finishing the meeting do so on a positive light. Say "you have enjoyed this time together, I have found out a bit more about you, I hope you found out a bit more about me", mirror, mirror, make connections. Smile and agree to shake hands, I always finds this helps and reinforces that connection in a small but important physical way.

 

I think there might be a few reactions to what I have said. The first is I do that anyway as a parent. If so re-read it check through my process and well done if it works for you as well. Another reaction might be that it sounds as if it might work in a school but maybee might be overkill in the home. I highlight the origonal post here that the child keeps her anger and frustration at bay in school, or should I say more formal and structured environment. I know my partner as a SENCO can flick switches instantly with kids in her school unit yet parents refuse to think about how she can do this. Another point might be that this approach is suited to only some types of behaviours or issues. I disagree with this and a lot of this is about kids having the confidence to open up in a place they feel safe. I can very vividly remeber sitting down with a 17 year old student who's 'A' level work had really started to dip off and she had become very tempremental and pretty hard work in lessons. I sat down with a colleauge going through this process after an incident and after about 20 minutes she came out with the fact that she was being systematically raped by her step dad. The following 10 minutes were all about me and the other adult mirroring through our own emotional response to get to the same controlled place as the student, we then took it from there. So I believe and have other similar experiences that this is the best way to deal with really complex situations.

 

I think the final reaction is one of its not that serrious and this seems like it takes a lot of time I am sure it is better to take short cuts. In my experience issues dealt with properly do not keep coming back and so investing time in this way is very cost effective in the long run. For a lot of issues we are talking 30 minutes of focused effort which is about in the attention span of most teenagers. You can get a lot done in this time if you work together. I know teaching staff however who might have the same individual on possibly a regular 45 minute detention week after week and throughout a year that could add up to 20 hours. In a family scenario i suspect this could be multiplied many times more!

 

As I said with all advice you can take it or leave it. Some individuals think parenting is a natural skill and can not be taught. I do not think you can easily teach it and if it this post comes across like this then my appologies it was not meant to do so. What I do think you can do is look at what works for others in similar situations. Rather than teach my approach what I am trying to do is explain why I think this works for me. I am also highlighting that I have seen this work for a lot of other adults and they take very similar approaches. In my and their experience there is no magic wand, rather logical, consistent and applied methodoligies which if properlly backed up tend to deliver good results. I would welcome any comments and personal strategies from other members because I am always trying to learn so that I can be a better parent to my own 7 year old none of us are perfect in this life role.

 

Just a few thoughts and best wishes.

[JeanneA]

I just want to say what fantastic comments/advice you have made lancslad, as always, I can relate to so much of what you have said which I carry out with my own son when he comes home.

[LancsLad]

Jeanne thanks so much. I have been having a lot of doubts about making contributions to the forum recently as I feel sometimes that people might not agree with me which is fine, but importantly not understand where I am coming from.

 

Darkshine brought home to me recently the importance of reference points in our lifes which enable us to make connections with other situations, and as such offer some ideas. I guess I have a lot of reference points in my life and using them in a constructive way is something which I feel helps me personally and supports my own fragile self esteem. At times silence following any posts makes me often feel I have said the wrong thing and I can get self destructive over it.

 

When it comes to parenting issues I think there are a few elements which I find interesting about my own life and how I went about doing things. Having AS often makes you feel that you simply do not fit in. As a result many of us reach a point where we become very observant of other people and try an work out why things might be easier for them in certain situations. With this newly aquired information we do something which can be quite difficult but is almost always worth it we go out into the world and 'act'. At times we act our hearts out and this can be really exhausting.

 

I would give the same advice to anyone out there having parenting problems and that is how do you think some expert might react in this situation, get those thoughts into your head and simply get acting and watch the results. You might not get perfect results everytime, if you do you are so much better than me, but I bet you can make progress. When you make progress in situations something very strange happens and that is you start to get belief that you can make things happen in the right direction. The alternative is of course to carry on with your life as it is and put up with the frustrations.

 

I can remeber when I was an emergency foster carer we would get a telephone calls sometimes at 2:00 am in the early hours of usually Saturday and Sunday morning from a social worker in a police station somewhere in the region could we help. I would say see you in about half and hour or so and grab something to wear whilst my partner would be getting a bed ready. A lot of these times I hadn't a clue as to what I would be facing and as such might not be very confident, but the second I walked through that police building front door I had to walk, talk and look the part, not for me, not for the police, not for social services but because there would be a kid there who had needs and he or she had to believe that this person looks like the right sort of individual to be able to help me tonight. That was never an easy thing to do because for a lot of the time I didn't have the self belief, sure I knew I had some good basic skills, but what I had to do was act my way through the situation. As an Aspie I was very good at this, after the events in my own time I could retreat and work things out for myself and question did I do ok or not, how could I have done things better, what was other peoples opinions of me, was there any feedback.

 

As an individual with AS who does this all the time in his own life these self reflection skills have become second nature. I guess a lot of the time in life people can get by without this level of self reflection and analysis and simply go from one situation to the next working out things as they crop up. I think this is fine to a level, but there are scenarios when this approach of 'winging' it through life becomes unsustainable and cracks appear in the strategy. At this point we need to sit back take stock and look at ourselves first because our own behaviour and approach is the easiest one to affect. I think if there is an issue in life is that people often come to this point of strategy breakdown very emotionally charged and are really unable to take a step back. I sense this an awfull lot on the forum and havn't a clue what to say in such circumstances simply because I do not have the reference points to draw upon, I am always pretty calm, cool headed and rational. That can drive my partner nuts at times I know but it is how I am.

 

Just a few thoughts and thanks for the comment Jeanne it means a lot to me.

[Mumble]

Sounds like angry depression to me and that is really difficult to treat. Would she accept the depot injection? You get them every 12 weeks

and if PMT (or PMDD) are a major problem maybe that's the way to go?

You will probably need to try a variety of approaches and find that bits of each work, but I agree with Trekster on sorting the PMT medically - if you can take that stress away it'll make the rest easier to deal with. The downside of no PMT of course is no excuse for excessive chocolate consumption...

[vikstar]

Thanks for all your advice Lancslad what you wrote was very very intresting and true especially how i as an adult can irror her aggressive behaviour even when im not trying to . What frustrates me the most is kate lack of acceptting any ###### help whats so ever we have bee offered ot physcologist support also young support workers she is so rude and unwilling to cooperate she thinks the whole world is against her and havind AS seems to make the world ohate her more i think its its a kind of parnoia ,its like make up she wears it as a mask call it her face because she believes she is disgosting ugly vile and honestly not just as a mother she is a beautiful girl . Has anyone eve read any thing about body dysmorphia and AS sorry going of the topic a bit but these things make her aggression worse if her hair isnt just right make up it the wrong colour . I love her so so much but she pushes and pushes me so far im scared that ill snap one day xx

[darkshine]

Hey LancsLad - do you think that approach would work with adults?

[LancsLad]

Vikstar many individual for all sorts of reasons of self protection hide behind masks put on suits of armour and develop force fields. The secret in my experience is understanding the key to get past these defenses. In many cases people can waste years of their time in looking for this key and never come to the realisation that the individuals who create these defense devices are clever, I know because I am one such person, they have built them with the locks on the inside and we have the key safecly secured on our person so you will not find it.

 

Throughout history people have built castles not because they were strong but rather because they were weak and vulnerable it took the French in the 19th century to work this one out. Living in a castle is not a nice experience it is cold dark and damp but it can deal with overiding emotions of fear and anxiety in providing some security.

 

I think it is important that we understand why the defense mechanism is there and that for many people it has become their home and as such there are strong emotional ties to this artificial place we need to respect this because it is part of them. There needs to be a strategy in dealing with individuals like this and I would say it starts with seeing the behaviour and not mirroring it but mirror back what you see this represents in terms of emotions.

 

I my experience and I have had a number of these with kids in my care from difficult backgrounds who have built 'Fort Knox' to be honest that you can easily say "XXXX (name) I can see you have built this self protection system around yourself, I understand this I do it at times, I know this means you are frightened, anxious, scared, worried, intimidated (whatever you think is appropriate), I have some idea about how you are feeling....". A response we might well get is 2piss off ive got a ###### big castle here can't you see it!" I think in such circumstances we simply go for a long seige approach untill they understand that we understand what the defense system is all about, and that takes a lot of emotional compasion and 'empathy'.

 

In my experience sympathy simply does not work. If we are trying to be 'calmly assertive' the gist to my strategy the correct response is empathy not sympathy. Sympathetic responses appear weak to individuals who believe they are secure in their castle, they are the pleas of an weak individual asking to please may I come in, often in supporting our fragile self esteem when offer such requests we say "no chance", we might not mean this but it certainly feels good in the short term. Empathy on the other hand says I understand the emotions but I am not prepared to give anything away unless you are prepared to negotiate.

 

I think that once we make a breakthrough we again have to make and check connections. I will keep using the analogy but people in castles think they are artificially safe though their position is pretty fixed and vulnerable if you are downwind of a plauge tough luck! Sometimes you might have to demonstrate some initial movement but you must remain assertive. "I am happy to talk about this at 8:00 when the younger kids are in bed or at some other time, what do you want me to do?" I think with some individuals you need to give them the option of arranging a time and importantly place as this might not be neautral. A lot of castles are built with double defenses a place where you can open one door but have another one still securly behind you as a last means of defense. These individuals need this amount of security to be present so in negotiating you have to be prepared for this fact.

 

I can remember one very good example of this which might help. We had a child in our care who was in complete emotional lockdown for very good and understandable reasons. At first she was allowed contact with her grandparents, that was it, but I turned up at a fourth meeting and her father was there so in effect the grandparents had defied a court order and all contact was stopped which was difficult for the kid. She felt really hard done by and I could see she was struggling to find reference points in her life, she had at 11 just started school for the first time for example so everything was new. I worked things through with social services and we agreed that contact could be allowed with some of her old street mates and that I would supervise this and check on the fact that there were only two other adults present and they had police clearance to allow this to happen, it was hard to find some without a police record for starters, even harder to persuade these two who I must say were brilliant and as aresult went on to become foster carers themselves. The reality of this was checking a house and sitting outside it in my car for a couple of hours. I want to say that this was not the greatest of areas in which to live and my car was my pride and joy and would have people bump into it for a laugh have footballs kicked at it etc... but you have to accept these things and be 'calmly assertive' life sends us tests from time to time. After a few such visits the kid started to open up to me after these vistis in the car. I would courtesly move it down the block a few yards to a neutral parking space and we would talk. We would talk with about 20 other kids looking in from a distance. It was like negotiating with 20 arrow points focused on your head and knowing that these kids by their nature would be a ###### good shot as well.

 

I use this real life example to point out for some individuals with a need for big defense systems it has to be their time and place, but we have to keep knocking on that door mirror emotions and understanding and ask for an invite to the negotiations. i ask one simple question would a GP, Psychologist, support worker have gone into this estate and met her on her terms, I think the answer is no. This childs male social worker told me he was too scared to go onto the estate. At one point down the line this child went missing for a number of hours with a big police hunt on and even the police said you take this particular estate in looking for her as it was safer for me than them. "I can remeber thinking ###### theres two of you and you have a bullet proof vest on each!", they were right though.

 

In my experience with kids behind a strong defense mechanism it can take time to get them to open the inner gates. We have to accepr and respect their feelings on this but you need to make progress even if this is small steps at a time. A lot of this strategy is about having a clear and realistic set of expectations which you are working through. The driving force is of course I want to help you help yourself find a better place as I can see the frustration, anxiety, fear, anger etc.... the control because that is what this is all about needs to remain with them. It is important to see that progress is being made but i would say be carefull about what you try to negotiate.

 

A lot of individuals might think a good negotiation point might be to a teenager retreated in their room in this way, I want you to eat dinner with the rest of the family. I have seen this one a few times on the forum, on the surface a pretty reasonable request. For me however this is about get out of your castle and come into ours! I would think hey I might have started to build some trust in you as a negotiator but now you are trying to entice me into your castle courtyard where I might be ambushed. How many times do you believe this approach has broken down for a younger sibling to say something the teenager to smell an ambush and run away to the safety of a bedroom, a few I hazard to guess. My approach might be more focused on identifying the strengths of the individual, understanding that this is a two person negotiation at this stage and feels safer as such and find a task with which they can relate to. I will change sex for a minute to avoid issues of cross dressing, but might say you are really good at picking clothes for yourself, I want to try and find a romantic (emotion) summer dress which suits me wiil you help I have got an idea of a budget (assertivness), I could try and get some catalouges or maybee you think the better stuff is in the shops, what do you think? A request like this has options open to it, one option might be "###### off you fat cow", which is fine because you can see the behaviour relate to the emotion and try and make connections.

 

In my own experience this process is always in its early stages a one on one process. When involved in care sometimes the person who would undertake this work was my partner at other times it was me. When we went into it we naively thought I would deal with the lads, my partner the girls, for some reason it very rarely panned out that way. I wonder how many intact families there are out there where mum thinks this is my role in the family and all the time the kids think I would open up but it needs to be dad. Dad on the other hand is always somewhere else shut behind his own suit of armour or building castles, as males we are more insecure, yet might be best placed to understand what is hapening in the childs life, just a thought but a big one. I think kids are always solution orientated and when it is a single parent family they know where the answer will come from. I think it is worth asking them on this one where a number of adults are around, not just mum or dad. Because a lot of care cases are a result of imediate disfunctional parents at times grandparents and possibly uncles and aunts can be important. You only have to read through the posts of Aspies on this forum to realise how important grandparents are to us, this is because they are once removed from our immediate lives and the stresses around them and are seen i think as a safer and more neutral bet, I have yet to find a grandparent who would not help a granson or grandaughter.

 

My final point with locked in kids is you have to simply be consistent and work at it, and work at it, and work at it, and work at it. That's the truth. There is no point in giving it a couple of go's getting frustrated and then angry and miroring this at the child. There is a very fine balance between not caring, the right amount of pressure and nagging relentlessly. I see this like a pressure cooker. The flame is very much still there because life creates stress on a daily basis most of the time. If we try to open the pressure cooker in one quick go someone will get scalded. Its more of a case of lifting that little weight on the top and letting off small amounts of steam bit by bit. After a few go's you get a feel for it, the initial pressure has gone and you find a position with the weight slighlty tilted in the right direction where the steam safely comes out and you think gosh there was a lot in there wasn't there. Its a very touchy feely process and your emotions have to be in a calm, confident but sensitive place to do this, if you are nervous you get scalded. In my experience this is a good description of what it feels like in working with kids with lots of pent up issues and who are behid pretty good defenses. Once the pressure is out very often we can simply open up the pan and see that there is a beautiful meal inside.

 

I know at times we like out glass topped designer pots and pans, a trendy wok, or Jamie's latest red spot frying pan. Pressure cookers don't somehow have the same appeal. The stuff is hidden out of view, we have to have faith in the process and confidence in our own abilities, they take a bit of working out. A lot of kids are very much like this, ###### hard work at first. Understanding them is difficult and just like a pressure cooker they have their seasons, teenage years being the winter period when they come into their own. My experience of kids like this is that there is some amazing stuff on the inside and that time and pressure can create some beautifful tender and delicatly flavoured dishes, which though complex are very nourishing, warm and leave lasting memories in our psyche. Persevere with them it is worth it, like all things valuable in life we ned to put the work in to get the rewards.

 

In answering Darkshines point, I think yes it works with adults, but some have had time to build castles which makes things a bit more complex. I would say at rock bottom we all revert to the child within and as such it can be quite easy to make real progress at these times but the emotional mirroring process can be exhausting to say the least.

[darkshine]

Thanks for answering my question I just wondered as the method sounds intriguing....

[LancsLad]

Darkshine I think you use a very interesting word 'method', and you are right I see this about using methods. I think a lot of people with ASD in complex emotional socialy volotile situations resort to methods as a strong starting point and foundation to engage with other people. The best way without doubt to learn methods is through observing someone who is good at something and then trying to copy them. I think as Aspies we tend to do this a lot more than most other groups of people and there are good reasons behind this.

 

I think the problem with parenting often is we feel we are supposed to be naturally good at it, if we struggle at times there must be something wrong with us. I simply fail to see the logic in either of these positions. I think some of us experience good parenting as kids and this helps. I also think some of us experience very bad parenting and the desire to do the opposite kind of helps as well in a strange sort of way. But for the majority of people we are simply average but we have the ability to improve considerably.

 

The next issue is where do we go to learn good parenting skills. I know for example given my nature I would happily watch an adult trying to deal with a toddler having a tantrum in a supermarket for example in trying to learn something from them, most adults would be embarassed and quickly go to the next aisle. I would also say thanks to the person when I did learn something and say you dealt with that well. The point is all too often we try not to deal with difficult behaviour management in public and so learning oportunities are limited.

 

A lot of my experience was gained in school enviroments, when i was younger teaching adventure activities in an outdoor centre, and later in life being around other foster carers when we had family get togethers. In these scenarios you do see some pretty strong behaviour and some really brilliant methods employed.

 

The final factor which has come into my method is an understanding of environment and the role it plays. I have done some work with young people with Ocean Youth Club which is about taking people out to sea for a few days on a 64ft Yacht. In such controled environments it is amazing what can be achieved because of the environmental conditions. For example a group a young offenders from Birmingham were simply not being co-operative at all and so it was decided to simply weigh anchor out at sea let them use up all the water on board and finish things like chocholate bars and pot noodles they had stashed, the fags ran out and then they were simply like putty in your hands . I have never experienced a boat stripped down and cleaned to such an emaculate state out at sea simply to fullfill the need of getting some drinking water. Often we do not have complete control over environment but a lot of the time we simply do not think about it at all and in dealing with ASD kids that seems like a major oversight to me.

 

Just a few more ideas.

[darkshine]

Only a month ago I was speaking to a relatively new mum and dad - who were pulling their hair out with guilt and grief over their mistakes and I said "look, just don't worry, the baby is fine, nobody comes preprogrammed in parenting, your learning and your doing a pretty good job, so long as you try to learn from your mistakes and the baby is happy and smiling then you don't have to tear yourselves up over it" they seemed happier after I said that.

 

I'm just saying this cuz it ties in with what you said first - we are all supposed to be naturally good at it - when this isn't the case and people make mistakes they feel guilty that society will judge them to be "bad" - which is why I felt like it was time for me to remind the people I was speaking to that they aren't bad - they aren't evil or wrong - they just are learning and everyone who looks after kids has that learning curve and it doesn't end cuz there's so many connotations to things that could happen!! And also in the end the kids can end up teaching the adults stuff too!!

 

Some good ideas in your posts here