Son had a really bad day today

[Sally44]

Well we all have them don't we.

 

But today he went on a school trip, that went okay and he enjoyed it.

 

Then he needed the loo. Went to the toilets, and didn't come out again. Teacher was sent in to get him and found him undressed and hysterical.

 

Apparently he'd tried to wipe himself, and got some on his fingers [not a nice subject I know - but most toilet paper is not fit for purpose!].

 

He would not get dressed because he said his clothes had germs on them.

 

Teacher got angry and shouted at him [pressure to get all kids back on bus and back in school].

 

Son got angry and shouted back.

 

These OCD fears, obsessions and compulsions are spiralling out of control again.

 

I've left message for the CAHMS psychiatrist to phone me.

 

He's started taking numerous baths in the evening [when previously I couldn't get him near water].

 

And however I broach the subject, and whatever he says about understanding and agreeing on how we move forward - as soon as something happens he says that his brain just takes over and won't listen to him and he just has to do what his brain is telling him because it won't shut up until he does it. Which I know is what OCD is all about.

 

PLUS, is if I need anything else - the back of the settee has finally fallen off with no possibility of another repair AND the washing machine sounds like the bearings have gone and it's leaking all over the kitchen floor.

 

Just want to crawl into a hole for a day or two.

 

No advice required. I'm just very VERY tired and VERY VERY fed up.

[trekster]

Hello

 

Hope your son manages to get the help he needs.

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Breaking-Free-OCD-People-Families/dp/1843105748

 

This is a CBT young persons guide to OCD. I hope it can help you, your son

or someone else.

 

I've got a hoarding/spending habit that is increased with my depression.

It started when I was 7 and I got home from school to find my paper model of

the SS Great Britain had been thrown out because it was broken. I still haven't

managed to replace it although I might be able to build the wooden version.

 

I started hiding my toys under the bed. This wasn't discouraged because my

family thought I was just tidying up (no diagnoses at all). When I 1st got my benefits

I went from £1.50 pocket money a week to ....well a lot more, my spending got out

of hand thankfully my carer at the time was very understanding and we worked out a

budget together.

 

I still get relapses of my OCD but to me it is a sign that the depression/CPTSD is taking

hold and I need to ring my counseller. I try and see excessive spending as self harm

because it is harming my bank balance if that makes sense.

[Sally44]

Hi Trekster,

 

Did you read this book yourself?

[asdinit]

Sending you hugs Sally xxxx

[Tally]

Such a shame that happened after such a good day. If it's a particular issue that comes up a lot, maybe he could carry some wet wipes in his bag so he could wipe his hands in the cubicle.

[bed32]

So frustrating that teachers seem to think getting angry and shouting at an ASD child is going to do any good.

 

Almost whenever we are called into see the school about something M has done it has been either caused or made much worse by ill-considered "interventions" by people who should know better.

 

Perhaps we should specify an anger management programme for the teachers on the statement !

[asdinit]

Perhaps we should specify an anger management programme for the teachers on the statement !

 

Hmm, you might just have something there

[trekster]

Hi Trekster,

 

Did you read this book yourself?

 

I bought it to help me understand mine and my friends OCD behaviours. Also to try and work out when an obsession

is OCD type and when it is a special interest. I have browsed the book yeah but haven't read it in a while. My friend has

OCD because a tutor used scare tactics to get him to wash his hands after using the toilet one day the bacteria from his

hands wasn't washed off and got into a petri dish. His teacher used scared tactics that backfired on him "that's red bacteria

and it is very dangerous" he's been OCD about cleanlinesses (especially when overloaded about something else) since.

 

There is another thread about someone's child having difficulties in the bathroom.

 

There is a sort of program for teachers "see it from the autistics point of view" is the 1st place to start.

[Beebee]

Awww bless you Sally...

 

What made that teacher think that shouting at a distressed child, was ever a good idea.???

 

I work in a Primary school and have to agree with others on here, that (in my past experience) some teachers really need to be enlightened on how to work with and help children with ASD...!!!

 

Bee

[JeanneA]

What an awful thing to have happened regarding that teacher that is the worst thing someone can do is to shout at a distress child like that, a teacher particularly should no better! It really makes me mad to hear of this kind of thing happening. As bee has said teachers definitely need to be trained on how to work with children with special needs.

[Sally44]

I have since spoken with the Psychiatrist, and although I can understand what she is saying, it doesn't resolve anything.

 

Basically she said that the more he is given re-assurance and 'aid's to support his fears [such as allowing him wipes/hand gel etc], that his anxiety will actually increase because the re-assurance is not 'internal' it is 'external'.

 

But the solution to that is to not provide those supports! And when he keeps asking if he is free from germs etc to tell him you are not going to answer that question!

 

I don't feel comfortable with that.

 

Maybe that could happen when at home or in school. But not out in the community. She did say that for those situations [and even at school or in the house] we had to decide whether to provide those items and re-assurance as a way of keeping him in school and accessing outside activities - but that we must understand that it could increase these behaviours ie. allowing him to change his clothes due to fears of contamination may result in frequent changes of clothes throughout the day [well that already happens]. But not allowing him a new change of clothes results in him remaining in his pants all day - however cold he feels. So that doesn't work either.

 

We went to a car boot sale yesterday, and he needed the loos, and it didn't have any paper, and so the rest of that day was hell. He was very upset, wouldn't touch anything, wanted to take his clothes off, sat in the car. Having some hand wipes would have helped I think. And then I would have been able to refuse to keep answering his persistent questions about germs and he may have been able to cope with that better.

 

I just find it so hard to constantly remember to "be prepared". Often I forget things, which means days out are ruined, or do not go as well as they could have. This condition is just such a pain for him and everyone else.

 

And on top of everything, I want to tell him the truth. But that is difficult in itself. I have told him that there are germs and bacteria in the world and he has to live with that. I have told him he has friendly bacteria in him and on him that works to protect him from any bad bacteria. I have told him that I cannot promise him that he has no germs on him because we cannot see germs. I have reminded him of the times he should wash his hands and I have told him that germs do not live for a long time in the environment [ie. floors, clothes etc].

 

The psychiatrist has said to reduce the medication, which we've done. TBH, I think the medication has improved his 'general' anxiety levels. But I think the OCD fears and rituals and obsessions are worse.

Edited May 7, 2012 by Sally44

[caci]

I have no experience of OCD, but I do know that YOU know your son best, and are in the best position to decide what might work for him.

 

Our kids are not text book examples, and do not think and do as stereotype examples expect.

 

I think if I was in your position, I would revert to carrying a variety of "just incase" items (like you did in the baby and toddler days). Even now, I make sure I have a packet of tissues in my bag or pocket, and some wet wipes, or hand cleaning gel, in the car, everytime I leave the house (our son is 13)

 

I think giving your son a pack of tissues to put in his pocket when he goes out is fine (he may even use them to blow his nose !)

[Sally44]

I don't think the teacher was losing it and shouting.

He was very good and emailed me a detailed account of what happened.

This is an ASD special school, and they do have other kids with OCD. So he is experienced.

What he said was that he went into the toilet to try to get my son out [as another adult had tried and failed].

My son was just in his pants and refusing to put his clothes back on because in his mind they were contaminated and had germs on them [as did his hands so he could not touch anything].

Yes he did raise his voice. And he did have to tell him that he had to put his clothes on NOW.

Afterall he was part of a school trip, and they were all waiting for him, and they had been waiting for some time.

 

The school have phoned the Clinical Psychologist, and have emailed and spoken to me about what they will do to be prepared on any future trips out of the school. And they have said what they are going to do now in school in terms of teaching him things and trying to expose him to some anxiety, whilst also supporting him so that it does not get out of control.

 

I think one of the things that always gets me is that nothing is ever done UNTIL someone else experiences it. These difficulties are not new. They have been going on for years [in one form of another], but because it was not happening in school, nothing was every done.

 

And it takes such a long time to get the medication and therapy right.

 

And in the meantime it is difficult. I am no saint. He can get me into a state where I could easily bang my head on the wall. But that doesn't help. And on many occasions it is because I have forgotten to bring something with me, such as hand wipes or gel, and that is even more frustrating.

 

I just wish there was some light at the end of the tunnel. I want someone to give me a timescale by which this will have gone. But that isn't possible.

[chris54]

I think one of the things that always gets me is that nothing is ever done UNTIL someone else experiences it.

 

That I am afraid is the way of the world.

At work I see the same sort of thing, no matter how much you tell any (new) member of staff. Until they witness the consequences of certain actions they do not realy believe what they will be.

[dekra]

My husband has OCD to I understand the frustration of people not directly suffering or helping sufferers. Even myself I get impatient and frustrated at him at times and want to scream at him to just get over it! I know however that won't help but I do tell him afterwards that I have felt that way and he understands on an intellectual level but when in the grip that doesn't help either of us.

 

As for the washing machine/sofa debacle all I do is offer to give the washing machine a metaphorical kick for you hope it's easily mended.

[chris54]

Lets hope that the experience for the school has moved things on in a positive way.

 

And hope that for your son the memory of enjoyable parts of the day are not over overshadowed by the days end.

Edited May 8, 2012 by chris54

[sesley]

poor soul its not his fault the teacher needs a slap for being so awful. don't be put off,get him on as many school trips as possible. Its important he is included as much as possible.

[darkshine]

I think that's just stupid... what the psychiatrist said about never discussing it - if I was afraid of something and nobody would discuss it I would get more afraid cuz I wouldn't know any hard cold facts and then I'd get even more afraid...

 

Can your son read? If so are there any books around for this kinda thing? To help him understand better and so he can learn about it - even if it becomes a special interest - so that he can understand...

 

For instance - what you said already about friendly germs and germs being everywhere and everything you mentioned is right but maybe he can't grasp that - its a lot to grasp anyway - but its good that you have told him stuff.

 

And although in his mind it could just be easier for him to live in a white cell with no germs - if he did then he wouldn't develop the resistance necessary to not get ill..

 

I do agree with the psychiatrists idea about not giving in to certain things as it could increase the behaviours - but I also think that these fears come from somewhere and that there are reasons why it carries on...

 

Does he actually fear the germs themselves or does he fear getting ill? Where did this fear come from? Is it just a technique to try and gain control of his world or is it an actual fear that is rooted in something?

[Temple Grandin]

as a kid germs use to worry me so much i wouldn't pick up things from the floor i wouldn't touch things if i thought they had germs on germs use to worry me sick.

[Sally44]

as a kid germs use to worry me so much i wouldn't pick up things from the floor i wouldn't touch things if i thought they had germs on germs use to worry me sick.

 

I'm glad you used the word "used to". So I presume that things are not so bad now??

 

This fear of germs and contamination is growing and growing. Everyone involved is going to come to some decision on how we deal with this. Do we try to pay it little attention and just be matter of fact about the things he needs to do and avoid. Or do we try to teach him some basic information to understand something about bacteria and germs.

 

Do we give him a high level of support, or do we just give him an answer to his questions once and then refuse to answer his persistent questions about whether he is contaminated and covered in germs!