Parents abandoning religion because of ASD

[Canopus]

Have any parents here abandoned religion as a result of having a child with ASD?

[chris54]

No, but then I had no religious beliefs anyway. I don't realy understand where the question is coming from. Do you mean in the way of feeling let down, the what have I done to deserve this type feeling. Or that the importance of religion in the scheme of thing is diminished.

I don't know but I would have thought for some their religious beliefs would become more important to them.

People often turn to their church in times of hardship.

Edited May 30, 2012 by chris54

[justine1]

Yes to an extent. I stopped going to church after I separated from my husband ,it was very challenging taking 3 young kids to church on my own. When I did start going the priest was very rude as I had asked about baptising my youngest and first holy communion for my older 2 he told me I was not commited having missed church for a year,really annoyed me.

 

Anyway we continued going for awhile but spent at least 80% of the time outside as Sam and Dan could not keep still and disruptive. All my boys are religious but they cant cope in church.

 

I have not been to church now for 2years and as we have moved I am hoping to start going again. Personally I feel religion is very important for children it gives stability and a sense of belonging to a community. However I dont think religion is solely about attending a place of worship itd more about values,morals and faith. I would'nt abandon my religion because of the fact I have 2 boys with ASD, I have been through alot in my life but think its circumstances and bad choices not God.

[Special_talent123]

i dont believe so, anywhere we are athiests so don't believe in things, although i believe in ghosts

[chris54]

Good point. The distinction between taking part in religious ceremonies (Attending church) and having a fundamental believe in a God or Gods. I was brought up in a tradition of attending church every Sunday and partaking in other religious rights. If I am honest with my self I now realise that it never meant anything to me and I finally abandoned any pretence of having any belief by my mid 20s.

 

When my father died, I know that some of the family found comfort in their religion, to that extent I envy them.

[A-S warrior]

if you had a child with a-s or asd, i would of thought you would stay under gods wing even more so, if you abandon your religon then you never truley belived in it anyway. god knows more about his children than we do, so if you had a faith its wise not to disregard it. you dont have to be at church every week, i dont go to the main service, i just see my friend there who gives me a 1 to 1. anyway god is everywere. and just thinking in your head at a time when you need help, he will hear you. if nothing else it will be a comfort for you. i like the thought that i have a awsome power looking after me. i am not, and repeat not going to have my faith bashed here, keep your opinion to yourself and belive what you want to belive.

[chris54]

Not sure about keeping opinions to ones self, wasn't there a topic recently about that very thing.

 

Although I have no religious faith myself and do not believe in the concept of god, I will defend anyone right to practice their own form of religion to the end. What I will not accept is the ideas of some religious teachings that theirs is the right way and everyone else is wrong. Then using this as justification for the persecution of others. In the past Christians were very good at that, now it seems to be the turn of other.

[A-S warrior]

What I will not accept is the ideas of some religious teachings that theirs is the right way and everyone else is wrong.

 

thats kind of what i was getting at. im as open minded as anybody and am open to all theorys, and i dont want a religios debate. i just take comfort in beliving in god. at the end of the day, this quite a different topic that asking if im an a******. all i was saying is, if you had a religon previous, then your selling out so to speak.

[Tally]

There are some religions which teach that having a disabled child is a punishment from God, including some branches of Christianity. If you believed that and had an autistic child, that would probably make you question your beliefs and may even cause you to be ostracised. You would not necessarily fall away from your faith totally though, you might just reassess which parts of the teachings you believe.

 

On the other hand, other people believe they were chosen by God to be the parents of a disabled child for positive reasons; because God knew they were the right people to look after that child.

 

People question their faith for many reasons. Having a disabled child Has a major impact on your life, and like any major impact, may cause a person to reassess their beliefs and look at life in general a little differently. It's the change in beliefs that might lead to abandoning religion, not the autism itself.

 

But faith can also provide comfort and meaning in difficult times. I expect that many are drawn closer to their faith as a result of having an autistic child. Other people within the Church may also provide comfort, friendship and practical support.

 

I used to go to a slightly weird Church in my teens. A couple there were expecting their 4th child and the amniocentecis test revealed the baby may have Down's Syndrome. They were advised that their child would be cured if they had faith. In Church we Prayed, not for the health of the child, but that the parents would have enough faith so God would cure the Down's. The baby was born without Down's Syndrome and the parents were lauded as an example to others struggling with their faith, as they passed the test and the baby was miraculously cured by their faith. I think that most people, including most Christians, would find this ridiculous. I do now too. The most likely explanation is that they were one of the 10% who receive a false positive and the baby never had Down's in the first place. I did wonder what would have happened if the child did have Down's though. But most Churches are not like that at all.

[chris54]

that's kind of what i was getting at. I'm as open minded as anybody and am open to all theories, and i don't want a religious debate. i just take comfort in believing in god. at the end of the day, this quite a different topic that asking if i'm an a******. all i was saying is, if you had a religion previous, then your selling out so to speak.

You might not want a religious debate but other may, and if that's the case they should feel free to do so.

 

Without insulting any ones for their beliefs or non belief.

 

If an atheist "Find God" is he selling out?

Edited May 30, 2012 by chris54

[A-S warrior]

You might not want a religious debate but other may, and if that's the case they should feel free to do so.

 

If an atheist "Find God" is he selling out?

 

 

i was in a 2 year relationship with a hindu, i diddnt eat beef and followed most of her belifs, i felt unclassified in the religon department, i diddnt know witch one made sence, im currentley on a christian path, does that make me a sell out? if your a complete atheist in my opinion you,ve just heard gods voice and are now embracing him. i wasnt always on gods side myself.

[chris54]

if your a complete atheist in my opinion you,ve just heard gods voice and are now embracing him.

 

You will have to expand on that statement as it doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

 

Just for the record I do not call myself an atheist, (Other might). I simple say that I do not believe in the concept of there being such a thing as a god or gods.

 

 

im currentley on a christian path, does that make me a sell out?

 

Not in my eyes, you will have to be the judge of that yourself.

 

I hope that you all feel free to get this topic back on track.

Edited May 30, 2012 by chris54

[Nickay12]

I was in an intensive care unit once, the doctor said it was unlikely that I'd survive, but obviously I did. As a rather skeptical atheist myself I've always been curious as to peoples neurological reactions to religion, so when I came out of hospital I asked my mum if she prayed to "god" when I was in a coma and she stated "not once".

 

Prior to the admission to hospital, she had never really talked about religion. But I think that there was a part of her that believed.

 

I know this wasn't asked, but I personally think that religion is ridiculously amoral not to mention all of the converging scientific evidence that proves that it's a complete fallacy. Besides why would we need a god to tell us the difference between right and wrong? That's just an insult.

[chris54]

It is impossible to prove that "God" in some form or other does not exist somewhere.

 

I do not think that religion is ridiculous, since the beginning of time man has seeked an understanding of the world around them, religion has been a way of answering the unanswerable questions. To give us a purpose. It is hard when you come to a state of mind, that tells you life exists purely for its own sake, and that it is a very temporary thing. That when our time is over both as individuals and collectively that it.

 

I find the term "Skeptical Atheist" and interesting one. Does it mean you are not sure if you are an Atheist or not?

Edited May 30, 2012 by chris54

[Tally]

No, I think that "skeptical athiest" means that you are skeptical about religion, or anything else that is unproven.

 

Science does not disprove the existence of God. What Science can do is offer explanations for things many people turn to religion for. For example, Science offers explanations for how the universe and life was created. But it doesn't rule out a god causing this to happen. Many scientists see Science as "thinking God's thoughts after him." Darwin believed in Christianity, and did not feel his theory of evolution was at odds with his faith. He believed God had caused evolution to happen.

[chris54]

No, I think that "skeptical athiest" means that you are skeptical about religion, or anything else that is unproven.

Well I was right then, I think a more accurate term would be agnostic, someone who does not follow or practise any religion and is not sure one way or the other about the existence of god.

[Lyndalou]

As it stands, I find it hard to decide what camp I fall into with regards to my belief in God. I know I very much believe in 'something' which connects everything in the universe together. I love the fact that everything in the universe is made from the same building blocks and that all things on this earth from living creatures to inanimate objects are simply atoms vibrating at different frequencies - Wow! Who 'invented' or 'created' those building blocks or did they all just somehow 'come about'? I find it very difficult to believe that this all just came about by accident.

 

However, if you'd asked me this question 20 years ago I would have had a completely different take on things. I would have said that God was exactly as described as in the Christian Bible, that the world was created in a week and that we had only been on this earth for 6000 years, give or take a century. In my teens I even made a special project of going through the chronology of all the people who lived since Adam and Eve to 'prove' to disbelievers that the Bible was 100% accurate.

 

I have much to thank my early Christian faith for. It gave me a strong moral code to live by and being and feeling 'different' was actually a positive thing for me as it meant I was living as I should 'in the world but not of the world'. This probably provided a buffer for me in my teens too because as hard as things got (and it got pretty bad), I still had God to turn to and as Tally said in her post, all challenges were a 'test' from God. I did question why other people didn't get 'tested' as much as I did but the old saying is true - What doesn't break you makes you stronger.

 

I reached the end of the road with my faith at 22, not because I no longer believed in God but because I no longer believed in the people I was surrounded by. By that age I felt suffocated by the hypocrisy I saw all around me. Don't be fooled, there is a 'pecking order' in church just as there is in everyday life. People hide things, speak half truths and tell lies. I had to live for many years with the knowledge that my pastor who had been a family friend since I was a child announced when I was 16 that God had told him I was possessed. Not only that but that God had told him that my father had abused me (baseless accusation based on the fact that I had a close father/daughter relationship with my dad). All across Scotland and further afield I knew that these things had been discussed with church leaders. If I wasn't paranoid before then, I certainly was after this!! I simply couldn't understand why people 'talked the talk' but I could see that they often did not 'walk the walk'. The irony of it was that up until I made this pivotal and life-changing decision I lived my life as I felt God wanted me to every day and I never spoke out against the church.

 

It took me a long time to come to terms with walking away from my faith but the fact that I still shake when I go into certain churches to this day is probably testament to the fact that I made the right decision. My parents never gave up their faith although I debate if they have the same commitment as they had when I was a child. They could never understand why I walked away and it put a massive strain on our relationship for many years.

 

I feel content that I now have the freedom to question and to explore, to seek answers in science and in nature and maybe one day I will come to some conclusion about what I now truly believe.

[Nickay12]

Well I do think it's ridiculous. I'm a skeptic and an atheist. I'm not agnostic. In fact I'm more of an anti-theist.

I don't believe in anything until there is evidence that it exists. I'm not on the "fence"..

 

I don't believe in anything without valid evidence. I've seen what religion does to the world.

I wouldn't take away a persons freedom to do anything, but I think that the world would be MUCH better off without religion.

 

Besides there comes a point when "faith" becomes silly in the face of opposing overwhelming evidence.

 

(Also sorry if i don't define the labels properly and I should say my intentions are not to offend anyone, it's just one of those subjects that means a lot to me.)

Edited May 30, 2012 by Nickay12

[A-S warrior]

You will have to expand on that statement as it doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

 

 

boy do i need a distraction lol, to be honest im not sure if i can explain, its not something that comes from the mind, it comes from the heart. it would be like you trying to explain why and how much you love your wife. (sort of) (if you have one)

[justine1]

I do think the thread is going off topic but anyway. I just wanted to say to those who think all religion is bad I disagree those extremist groups are just that groups of people and they mis-interpret text to their own hidden agenda. There are many great things about religion including helping others in need,yes you don't have to belong to a religion to do this but I don't know of any atheists who give to charity,and I know many atheists most of whom are well off.

 

I also find many people who commit crime are not religious,though some find religion and reform their life. Don't get me wrong not all religious people are "saints" there are those who hide behind their religion whilst comiting adultry,gamble,abuse their bodies with various substances etc. but as I said in my other comment I do think it gives a sense of purpose and in this crazy world we live in it does give us a reason to take time to reflect and "chill" in a sense.

[chris54]

boy do i need a distraction lol, to be honest im not sure if i can explain, its not something that comes from the mind, it comes from the heart. it would be like you trying to explain why and how much you love your wife. (sort of) (if you have one)

Now I even more confused. Its the statement:-

 

"if your a complete atheist in my opinion you,ve just heard gods voice and are now embracing him."

 

I was referring to. If you are an atheist, it is the exact opposite, you have not heard the word of god so to speak.

 

I've seen what religion does to the world.

---- I think that the world would be MUCH better off without religion.

 

Its the misuse of religion that is the real problem, by people who want power and control.

[chris54]

I don't know of any atheists who give to charity,and I know many atheists most of whom are well off.

 

I also find many people who commit crime are not religious,though some find religion and reform their life.

 

 

And how many well off "Christan's" don't give to charity. I know plenty. How many of our politicians who were steeling money off of us would call themselves Christians.

 

Don't go down the road of thinking that having religion makes you a good person and not having it make you bad because that is just not true.

Edited May 30, 2012 by chris54

[A-S warrior]

so, how many religous parents have given there relgion a backseat baecuse of there asd child?

[justine1]

I agree 100% chris I was merely commenting on the good points of having a religion,as others are focusing on the negatives. Everyone has faults religious or not!

 

I live in the real world and know that good and bad lies in anyone regardless of colour,religion or gender. Obviously in religion it is expected to be charitable but I know its not always for the right reasons.

Edited May 30, 2012 by justine1

[LancsLad]

Firstly, Canopus, what a really interesting question. I saw it early yesterday and felt this is one to keep out of for 24 hours. The question is well phrased to make us think and as such here are my thoughts;

 

I think the question sets a proposition rather than demanding a definative answer. I feel that that proposition is how will our global institutions, religion being one of them, respond to a changing world where scientific investigastion resulting in the aquisition and open sharing of knowledge is happening at an ever expanding rate. At the centre of this lies the human population being whose capabilites and traits including ASD have more or less remained a constant.

 

I feel in questioning will parents loose faith following the birth of an ASD child, we need to ask what is it they have faith in and why? It is my view that as scientific evidence has emerged and been verified through extremely strict criteria many concepts which are embroiled in religions have been challenged. Religion has a choice in such scenarios, defend its position or adapt its position. What we have seen hapening is both and as a result a fracturing of religion into component parts. Today individuals are faced not with a choice between say being a christian or a muslim, but as much once decided which version is it you might want to be.

 

In a lot of ways religion is becoming more of a service industry selling a belief package and less of a product provider selling a moral and ethical compass. As a result having a child with ASD might simply raise the questions in those individuals with a faith did I subscribe to the right belief package. There might have been a time where religion operated out of the local church in the same way as we got products from our local store and choice was somewhat limited, I feel those days for many are long behind us. Religion is sold in the supermarket environment and as such there are options available in the aisles marked christianity etc... and as a result changing belief packages is akin to changing breakfast cereals in some ways. If the religious leader of my local church can not accept my change of cirumstances and with them a desire to slighlty move position then it might be a case someone taks a look at what is on the shelf next to thier existing product. What they might find as in breakfast cereals is that they are all trying very hard to push forwards their unique selling points but they are all basically made of wheat with a bit of sugar added to make the consumption a bit easier.

 

Canopus I can not see why in today's society parents should feel their 'core' beliefs are being challenged through the birth of an ASD child, because there are options. If we went back 100 years I think that would not have been the case, and if parents do have issues in this area it might be more of a reflection of their own religious environment and the insularity of it than themselves.

 

There is of course a very big background question and that is are we seeing the disintegration of traditional religion as we learn more and more about our world and the universe and many previously held ideas are dispelled.

 

At a personal level I think the answer is yes, but it will take a long time, but this does not mean the disintigration of concepts such as belief, spirituality, faith. I went through my childhood and teenage years and really questioned religion. This was not surprising as the majority of my family come from Northern Ireland, and I have witnessed the hypocrisy first hand. As a result I decided to take the position of an aetheist and placed my beliefs in science as my personality can relate to the rigours of its questioning process. As I have become older I have understood that as a human being I have a great sense of rights and wrongs in the world and that as such I have found a very strong ethical and moral compass on which to guide my own actions. Beyond this I have found my own level of spirituality. I spend the vast majority of my time by myself often in the open landscape and find great comfort in this. I have an interest in religions from an anthropological level and the diversity of the planet fascinates me. If there has been one are in my life which I have always had difficultly with it is that of 'faith' and importantly faith in myself. I have a lot of respect for anyone who has a belief in a religion when I can see that their own personal moral and ethical compass is well aligned, I have to say that is not always the case.

 

When I played cricket I chose to play in a team of almost entirely practising muslims and was always taken by the levels of the commitment to their beliefs in all areas of their lives, and was impressed by the levels of spirituality, I had not experienced this in christian communities. Unfortunatly in a house fire the two children of one of my teamates were killed. At the funeral which followed I was taken aback by how they dealt with this tradgedy and could see there was an emense amount of faith present in the family and imediate social circle. In contrast having seen the kids running around the boundary playing the week before I found it very hard to take and was left with the question why? If my son was born with ASD would that question my own beliefs I do not think so, if he was killed in an accident I think that would be another matter altogether, I would have to deal with Why? Life is full of the unknown and it will remain like this for many centuries to come. Many people choose to deal with this unknown by having a belief in a greater concept and from this they draw the 'faith' to move forwards in their lives, though I might not share such a belief system I can see it as a highly human response. I might even go as far and say I am jelous of it, but as yet my intellectual side prevents me from moving to any traditional religious position.

 

Just a few thoughts on an interesting if volitile subject.

[Nickay12]

A great number of charities are run by secular non-believers, in fact when I look at an African child dying it's kind of hard not to feel for them. Especially considering the fact that they are not going to heaven. It makes the limited time they have on this earth much more precious. So as a secular humanist I don't turn away from it and pretend that it doesn't exist and I don't know of any definitive atheists who would.

 

Besides the bible doesn't stand for freedom, it stands for xenophobia, misogyny, homophobia and much more amoral stuff.

[Canopus]

I have encountered a couple who abandoned religion because of a severely autistic son. They used to be devout Christians, not only personally but as activists encouraging people who were not religious to enter the fold of Christianity. Originally they were C of E but later moved to a traditional and socially conservative independent church after the C of E changed its policy on gay rights in the 80s and then (in their words) lost its way and lost touch with its congregation in the name of political correctness. Having a severely autistic son which created no end of heartache for both himself and others made them question aspects of religion. They could understand physical disabilities but had difficulty coming to terms with why God could allow such mental disabilities to exist. Explanations like life is full of challenges or dealing with adversity were not good enough as they felt that the situation had gone too far.

 

It was not just the endless stress and problems caused by their autistic son that made them lose faith in religion. They first turned to the study of medicine and later the study of science - particularly genetics and evolution. While the parents were Christians they considered Richard Dawkins to be an arrogant and loud mouthed propaganda merchant who should spend more time in the lab. After initial scepticism reading his books they increasingly concluded that he and his fellow molecular biologists are infact right. Continued study of genetics and molecular biology moved them away from religion. Not just Christianity but all forms of religion which they increasingly concluded were falsehood and disproved by science. Their next course of action was support for gene therapy and genetic modification of humans. They strongly believed that if the genes which caused medical and psychological problems could be identified and then corrected using gene therapy then it should be implemented in practice. It was simply the next stage in the development of medicine from organ transplants. In their opinion religious groups opposed to genetic modification were immoral and irresponsible when much human suffering could be eliminated by eliminating faulty genes.

[LancsLad]

Canopus your post raises an interesting question in my mind at least.

 

Do people think that because we have created the idea of a god like figures in our cultures, when we reject this idea there is a residual element in our psyches which results in a desire attain a god like position through our own efforts. To put this another way if there had been no religion in our historic past and as such no concept of 'god the creator and manipulator of lifeforms', would elements of our society by pushing issues such as genetic modification as hard as they are, or would we be taking a more neutral position to ethics based on reflections about our own albeit simple definition of personal humanity?

 

I say this because your own anecdotal evidence seems like a case in point to me where the couple have gone from one side of the argument to the other without spending a lot of time contemplating the middle ground.

 

Just a few thoughts.

[Tally]

To be honest, I think many atheists find Richard Dawkins to be an arrogant, loud-mouthed propaganda merchant. Even if they agree with his science.

[chris54]

The vast majority of people occupy the middle grown. They accept science and scientific developments but are happy for that to go side by side with their religious beliefs. Even creationist are in general happy to accept "New" science, as its god guiding the scientist to do his work.

 

When it come to genetic engineering and manipulation, Many of the people who are passionately against it are non religious.

Most thinking Christian do not take Genesis literally and accept that the world was not created 6000 years ago in 7 days. That many millions of years of genetic mutation has led us to where we are now.

[justine1]

I agree with chris. I am a student nurse and and as such I believe in science but I also have my own beliefs. Actually we have had lectures on spirituality and how we can encourage this as statisically people heal quicker if they have a faith. Many elderly people or terminally ill will look for spiritual comfort in the final stages of life.

 

The one thing I will never do is ram religion down someones throat which I have witnessed some nurses doing. As for darwins theory vs bible I have my own theory abt all that.

[LancsLad]

Justine I agree about your point regarding the importance of spirituality in our lives. For many years I had difficulty with this because I saw it as a concept which was related solely to religion, I now know this is not the case and would say I am a very spititual individual.

 

Chris I think in many societies people do occupy the middle ground, or at least try to. But to pick up on a point made by Justine in around 60% of schools in the United States, Darwins theory of Evolution is not taught at all and that worries me.

 

As an atheist, and my partner having a religious belief we debated long and hard about which school to send our son to. Both schools where we live are faith schools. It has alaways been my believe that he should have a balanced education which supports a level of understanding for him to make a balanced judgement about his personal beliefs when he feels ready to do so. As a result we have sent him to a county primary which is a number of miles away. That decision costs us all time and resources to support. I have to say that I have been very disapointed about the level of inbalance in his education. I have spent a fair bit of time walking with him in the countryside looking at plants and animals and how they have adapted to their environments. He knows about things such as Darwin and is able to take the concepts on board aged 7 but has yet to come across anything similar in his school curriculum. A recent school project was to write about an animal and produce a project book. Everyone in his class choose cats and dogs with a couple of horses thrown in, his choice was a Duck Billed Platypus. His teacher was taken aback by his choice and I suspect it threw out of sync some of her learning objectives related to the task. I was not aware of his choice it was all down to him based on the fact he wanted something really interesting to investigate and report on.

 

My experience as a secondary school teacher is that whilst we have concepts such as evolution on the school curriculum, many students find great difficulty in engaging with them. The easy option is to revert back to previous beliefs in god which are taught pretty heavily in earlier years. I think for many this is pure mental lazyness. If it is the case that the majority take the middle group I think it is more because they can't be bothered thinkng about things rather than this being a well thought out position.

 

In my opinion we teach these things far too early in many ways to the point individuals become bored of it at the point where they might have the maturity to really start to think about these concepts. What disapoints me about religion so much is its lack of confidence in its teachings. It is so much easier to go for a get them when they are young policy and hope some of the teaching might stick with a few, than to put together a coherent argument to be put before young adults who are allowed to approach it from a neutral perspective.

 

In an ideal world I should not feel the need to teach my son about Darwin at this stage of his life. The reason I do is because it feels like the education system is pouring acid solution into him and as a result I am spooning in alkaline powder in an attempt to maintain a neutral PH. In an ideal world we would recognise that as a child he is pretty clear and pure and has a reasonable moral and ethical compass built into his personality. What I find difficult about a lot of the religious teaching is that it must come from a proposition that he is not clean and pure and as such needs to be pushed through some sort of moral and ethical corerection process. For me the problem here is that might well foster a belief system in him but I doubt very much if it will foster any levels of spirituality in his life and for the life of me I can't see whats the point of one without the other.

 

Just a few thoughts.

[chris54]

It worries me that many people in power in the US are creationists, and as such things like climate change and global worming don't concern them as they are all part of gods plan.

 

Doesn't the entry to Christan church and other religions require the washing away of sin. Baptism is the symbolic washing away of original win. As a child I was taught that if a baby died without being baptised it would not go to Heaven. (Of course only christians(Catholics) went to heaven anyway) But you could be the most evil person on the planet, but as long as you renounced your sins on your death bed you would be OK and would have your place in heaven.

 

The first school my son went to was a county primary, there was religion, primarily Christan, taught and practice. When we moved he went to the local C of E primary, There whey would go down to the local church for some things, and the vicar would come into the school to teach, but i don't think they went over the top. Some might say there was not enough emphasis on christianity for a church school.

[LancsLad]

Chris I find you post to be thoughtful and balanced as always. The difficult thing is how do we know if they have gone 'over the top' or not.

 

If I have an interest it is from an anthropological perspective in all of this. What tends to amaze me if you look at cultures around the world and then use tools to measure concepts of personal well being that many of the most disadvantages societies score reasonably highly in terms of percieved well being. Given the situation in which they find themselves as human beings there must be something which makes up the difference and I suspect a lot of that is down to simple belief structures and spirituality. For this reason though I do not believe in the concept of a god or gods I can understand how someone having these beliefs is supporting their own sense of well being in so many ways.

 

What I find difficult is that I do not experience these levels of spirituality in our own society in general. This is borne out when people look at perceptions of well being in the population. In many ways we should be well placed in the developed West to top well being tables by a mile and yet we fail to do so. Should the fact that we do not act as a sign to the various religions who claim to have something of a monopoly on elements such as spirituality to highlight they are getting something wrong, and possibly in a big way. If they were on message I think we would all be rushing towards them saying I have got a lot in my life but I want that bit more of what is on offer. Instead I think it is often a case of people who might not have very much in their lives cautiously approaching them because they want something. I can see that there will always be a core religious community but suspect that it is as much through habits which have been developed at an early age as anything. I am not saying there are not strong beliefs there, but I tend to value the strength of a concept by how many previously sceptical people are prepared to move their own positions as a result of exploring such thinking. As such it does not surprise me that globally we are seeing a move from Western beilefs to those of the traditional East. I think there is a big reason for this and that is they offer a more tangiable concept of spirituality which is often a missing component in Western lives.

[chris54]

As a small child at school I was terrorised with Hell Fire and Damnation, we had to learn parts of the Catechism off by heart and started every day with a whole school religious service with hymn singing the lot, so maybe my "Not over the top" is be someone else's "Over the top".

Edited June 1, 2012 by chris54

[Canopus]

In a lot of ways religion is becoming more of a service industry selling a belief package and less of a product provider selling a moral and ethical compass. As a result having a child with ASD might simply raise the questions in those individuals with a faith did I subscribe to the right belief package. There might have been a time where religion operated out of the local church in the same way as we got products from our local store and choice was somewhat limited, I feel those days for many are long behind us. Religion is sold in the supermarket environment and as such there are options available in the aisles marked christianity etc... and as a result changing belief packages is akin to changing breakfast cereals in some ways. If the religious leader of my local church can not accept my change of cirumstances and with them a desire to slighlty move position then it might be a case someone taks a look at what is on the shelf next to thier existing product. What they might find as in breakfast cereals is that they are all trying very hard to push forwards their unique selling points but they are all basically made of wheat with a bit of sugar added to make the consumption a bit easier.

 

I don't quite agree with this one because the majority of people who follow a religion - both in Britain and the rest of the world - either follow the religion of their parents or a religion that is prominent in the country (or more precisely the locality) that they live in. Only a tiny fraction change to following a very different religion as a result of their own investigative research. Another factor is whether the religion fits in with their own personal lifestyle. If somebody enjoys drinking wine then they are unlikely to become a Muslim even if certain aspects of Islam appeals to them. A secondary factor is how active are the people who claim to follow a particular religion. Certain religions such as large Protestant Christian churches and Hinduism have a high proportion of followers who are just notional and do not involve themselves in religious activities apart from say weddings or major (and more often than not fun rather than spiritual) celebrations.

 

Besides the bible doesn't stand for freedom, it stands for xenophobia, misogyny, homophobia and much more amoral stuff.

 

I have encountered numerous atheists to the core who are quite supportive of xenophobia, misogyny, homophobia and much more amoral stuff. Some even say that they support over 90% of Sharia Law!

[hsmum]

Hi,

 

I have not abandoned my faith due to ASD, but I am having a short respite from attending church services because it was difficult to manage my children's behaviour. The church leaders and congregation were wonderfully understanding, but I knew the children were not receptive or engaged, and it was unfair to disrupt the worship of so many others (many who were elderly).

 

My children have calmed down a lot now, and they can discuss 'the big questions' and accept that different people have different beliefs. In time, I will start attending church again and my sons may join me. However, it is likely that they will do exactly what I did, use their youth to explore who they are and what they truly believe in.

[bed32]

In general I believe that people who regard science as being in conflict with religion have a serious misunderstanding of one, and probably both. Broadly speaking science is about "how" and religion about "why". If science contradicted religion then all good scientists would be atheists - and that is clearly not the case.

 

This is clearly very difficult for many people on ASD whose rigid and logical thought patterns seem to struggle to understand the less tangible concepts of philosophy. Our son is at a C of E school but is at present very resistant to anything religious that is certainly making life very difficult - we have a family wedding coming up in a couple of months and I am not sure we are going to be able to get him to attend. One of the problems he has, again I believe in common with many ASD children, is an intolerance to other people's opinions if they differ from his.

 

I don't see anything in the parenting of an ASD child that would cause someone to abandon religion, rather the opposite as the inclusivity of christian message (particularly of the reformed churches - the Catholics are a law unto themselves) should be welcoming to those who find that most of the secular organisations are at best indifferent and more commonly actively hostile to ASD children.

[Canopus]

In general I believe that people who regard science as being in conflict with religion have a serious misunderstanding of one, and probably both. Broadly speaking science is about "how" and religion about "why". If science contradicted religion then all good scientists would be atheists - and that is clearly not the case.

 

Atiitudes towards religion vary depending on which branch of science the scientist specialises in. Mathematicians and nuclear physicists have a higher proportion of religious people in their ranks than molecular biologists do. Some years ago I encountered a debate about religion between an atheist biologist and a Muslim electronic engineer. The biologist claimed that the electronic engineer is religious simply because nothing in the branch of science he specialises in conflicts with religion but if he understood molecular biology as well as he does then he would seriously be doubting his religious texts.

 

I don't see anything in the parenting of an ASD child that would cause someone to abandon religion, rather the opposite as the inclusivity of christian message (particularly of the reformed churches - the Catholics are a law unto themselves) should be welcoming to those who find that most of the secular organisations are at best indifferent and more commonly actively hostile to ASD children.

 

The couple didn't abandon religion solely on having a child with autism. It was the science that persuaded them. The couple also has an ill feeling towards many secular organisations - particularly the British Humanist Association - for a variety of reasons.

[bed32]

Atiitudes towards religion vary depending on which branch of science the scientist specialises in. Mathematicians and nuclear physicists have a higher proportion of religious people in their ranks than molecular biologists do. Some years ago I encountered a debate about religion between an atheist biologist and a Muslim electronic engineer. The biologist claimed that the electronic engineer is religious simply because nothing in the branch of science he specialises in conflicts with religion but if he understood molecular biology as well as he does then he would seriously be doubting his religious texts.

Both Mathematicians and Nuclear Physicists are well used to working with concepts outside the scope of normal human understanding and are trained to some extend to recognise and compensate for the limitations of our natural understanding/intuition. Where most atheist (or humanist) arguments fall down is that they start from the premise that human understanding is supreme and so of course they cannot comprehend anything beyond their own understanding.

 

In some ways it is those who are dealing with the most fundamental laws of the universe who are closest to understanding the true nature of things. A molecular biologist may understand how life works at one level, but can't comment on "why?" or even understand the fundamental laws of the universe that makes life possible.

 

In some sense everyone has a religion and gods - everyone who has thought about these things comes to their own opinion about the authority of various belief systems. To someone like Dawkins, man is God and humanity is the supreme arbiter of good and evil.

 

The couple didn't abandon religion solely on having a child with autism. It was the science that persuaded them. The couple also has an ill feeling towards many secular organisations - particularly the British Humanist Association - for a variety of reasons.

I don't see how the science of Autism can persuade someone to abandon religion per se - although there are several forms of religion that are just as confused about their response to science as some scientists are to religion.