Learning to drive...

[bid]

Hi

 

I would be really interested to hear how any adults with AS out there got on when it came to learning to drive.

 

I have enough 'Aspie qualities' myself to have made this difficult for me. I ended up passing my test in an automatic.

 

I suppose this has entered my mind because Auriel is 16 on Sunday, and this made me think about the things NT teenagers are looking forward to at this age...

 

Thanks in advance for any input!

 

Bid

[oracle]

There has been a HUGE discussion about this on another group, which ran for some weeks. It appears that if you put the dx on the application form then it will depend if they then decide go for doctors reports and how the disability affects the person. If you do not put down the dx you are breaking the law. Now AS is not actually mentioned on the DVLA site but the feeling is that it is being viewed by DVLA as an emotional and behavioural probelm, or even a personality disorder. Which is worse?

 

There are many adults with AS who can and do drive but the feeling is that it is being made harder for them and in some cases people with AS are having to take an advanced test to see how they would cope and react under stressful conditions.

 

I do not think that the topic ever reached a conclusion on the group with the jury being out as to which way things were or would go. But I do know that it is no longer a forgone conclusion that someone with AS will be able to drive.

 

Carole

Edited July 12, 2005 by carole

[Canopus]

I don't think that AS or dyspraxia are recognised by the DVLA although I suspect in 5 or so years time they will be now that they are official conditions and recognised by schools and LEAs.

 

If one is not officially identified as having AS or dyspraxia but think they have then they need not inform the DVLA or their insurance company about it.

[bid]

Wow, I didn't know any of this Carole

 

Bid

[annie]

Bid,

 

I'm so glad you posted about driving. For some reason ever since Alex was diagnosed it's one of the things that I have worried about. He has always just assumed that he will drive one day. Cars have been his obsession for years.

 

I think he would be devastated if he found out that he wasn't allowed.

 

Annie

XX

 

PS Happy Birthday to Auriel for Sunday (I know it's early but we will be on our hols).

 

Carole,

 

Happy birthday to Matthew for tomorrow (I hope I remebered the right day

 

Annie

XX

[oracle]

It's not that people with AS are not going to be allowed to drive it's just that the hoops are going to get smaller and smaller for them to jump through.

 

It is correct that AS is not on the list for the DVLA and that is why it's being boxed with other conditions at the moment. I know that some of the adults with AS have the NAS invloved with this.

 

Eventually it will depend if the professionals you have been seeing give the green light. This worries me because again it's another reason for NOT going for the dx.

 

Matthew has an aunt who is saving money for him and he is being told that when he is 18 he will be able to buy a car. Yes but will he able to drive it? I have asked that she no longer says this because otherwise Matthew may be expecting something that will not happen

 

Annie - Thanks for the Birthday wishes it's David's birthday tomorrow. I will then have one adult and one child with ASD And me so young

 

Carole

[Gordie]

Oooh - this is a bit of a sore point with me. Getting the provisional licence through was something of a nightmare, and it took months. From then on though, I've had little trouble really.

 

But as far as the provisional licence application is concerned, well where do I start?!

 

I thought this would be a breeze to start off with, and the fact that I had Asperger's Syndrome and depression wouldn't be an issue at all. How wrong could I be?!?!

 

After completing and returning the standard provisional licence application form to the DVLA, I was soon asked by them to complete a couple of medical forms (G1, for depression, and M1, for Asperger's), to make sure I would be okay to drive cars safely. The details I gave would then be checked with my GP and/or a specialist in the area of Asperger's/depression. However I had some difficulty answering a few of the questions on the Asperger's form, including one about whether I should be restricted to driving automatics. I felt that particular question was potentially misleading and ambiguous (see what you think - it's Question #8 here). Clearly I wouldn't have a clue whether I would need to use an automatic or not - it was impossible for me to guess whether or not I'd be able to cope with a manual. So I asked a specialist that I had seen in person just a month or so earlier what she thought. In fact I asked her to give me suggested answers to all the questions I was unsure about. But she refused, saying she preferred to have the form on paper in front of her. I told her she could print the form out at her end, using the same link I've used here in this message, but she was still having none of it. So I had no choice but to send the form to her directly, by post. I asked her to send them onto the DVLA afterwards, and added a note to the form saying I had given her permission to answer certain questions for me, but I'd asked her to inform me what she had told them, so that I knew what had been submitted on my behalf. As it turns out, not only did she not bother to do that, but what she had done (which I didn't know about at the time), by filling in the form for me (even with my permission), was actually illegal!! And she took her time doing it, for good measure!

 

But what she had done, as if that wasn't bad enough in itself(!), then led to all sorts of complications with the DVLA afterwards. They sent me another form, this time asking me exactly what sort of "special controls" I would definitely need (i.e. a car with an automatic gearbox). Well I didn't know where to go with that. Clearly this specialist that I'd seen had told the DVLA I would definitely need to be restricted to automatics, even though she'd never said to me herself that that would be necessary - she'd only ever told me I might struggle a bit with a manual. So I was not best pleased with her, and wrote a huge rant of an e-mail, criticising all of her actions. She wrote a very humble apology back to me, saying she had no idea that what she'd done was actually illegal (which is pretty lame for someone in her position), among other things.

 

I was then left to explain to the DVLA that I actually didn't need any special controls at all, and that the "Yes" box on the form (for the aforementioned Question #8) had been ticked in error. It was quite embarrassing really. We even had to phone the DVLA beforehand (I got Mum to do it actually, as I knew she'd be better at explaining the very long-winded situation we'd found ourselves in), to make sure this would all be above board. And then of course, upon sending that form back, the DVLA then had to clear my response with my GP and whoever else was relevant again, to make sure it really was okay for me to learn to drive in a manual.

 

Jeez! What a palaver!!

 

Anyway, I did eventually get my provisional licence in mid-November last year (having originally applied 3 months earlier, in mid-August!), with no restrictions on what types of car I could drive. The possibility of learning in an automatic is now always available to me, should I need it, but the important thing is that it's only optional now. That's what I really wanted - the option to switch if necessary. The DVLA were actually quite helpful in the end, as in the letter accompanying my provisional licence, they provided me with the name, address and telephone number of someone at an organisation that would be able to find me an instructor in my local area that would know how to handle teaching someone with Asperger's to drive. I thought that was a nice gesture.

 

But some of you may remember that my whole motivation for learning to drive in the first place was because my best friend on-line is a driving instructor. So I was planning all this entirely around her. I thought it would be a good idea to get her to telephone the people the DVLA told me about in that letter, so she could get some advice on what sort of problems/difficulties to expect when teaching me to drive. So she did that. And once she could fit me into her busy schedule of lessons(!), I started in early-March of this year. She lives just outside Watford, you see, so it was pretty difficult getting a suitable time slot, allowing time either side of each lesson for me to get there and back! Lessons with her are so much fun though - it really is worth all the travel time/cost. As a friend of mine, she only charges me 50% of her usual rate for all my lessons anyway. Oh, and as she only has a manual car to teach people in, that's why it was so important to me that I got a provisional licence that allowed me to drive manuals. If I'd been restricted to just automatics, I'd have been gutted.

 

Anyway, I've had 8 two-hour lessons with her so far, and have passed my theory test with ease too (35/35 in the multiple choice questions, and 55/75 in the hazard perception test).

 

As it turns out, learning to drive in a manual has had its ups-and-downs so far(!) ... but I don't think I've had any more problems than most NTs would. Okay - so driving is a lot like multitasking - you have to concentrate on a lot of things simultaneously. And that can be difficult sometimes, but I think practice will make perfect, given time. My instructor/friend tells me I'm doing well, compared with her other students. Okay - so there have been some who have done better than me by this point in my learning, but there are also plenty who have fared worse too. At least I've not crashed it yet! (But with dual controls in the car, if I was to crash it, it would be partly her fault! )

 

carole & Canopus:

Now AS is not actually mentioned on the DVLA site

Well that may be true, but it is mentioned on the Government site, on the following page ...

http://www.direct.gov.uk/Motoring/DriverLi...mp;chk=RaDB7%2B

... that's where you can access the two medical forms I had to fill in. For some reason, Asperger's is lumped in with cancers, tumours and "other" medical conditions!!

 

Eventually it will depend if the professionals you have been seeing give the green light. This worries me because again it's another reason for NOT going for the dx.

Yes - these thoughts crossed my mind too, during this long and laborious process of waiting for my provisional licence. I knew that, if I'd applied for it when I was 17, 3 years before I was diagnosed with either Asperger's or depression, I'd have had absolutely no problems at all getting the provisional licence. This frustrated me endlessly during my 3-month wait for it to come through. I was thinking, "Aren't these diagnoses supposed to help instead of hinder?!?!".

 

James

[bid]

Thanks everyone for your replies!

 

My Aspie qualities made it very difficult for me to concentrate on the physical multi-tasking with a manual, at the same time as concentrating on the road and other traffic (Which is funny, because my fine motor skills are excellent for sewing, etc.)

 

I do know my left and right, but I find it difficult to identify them quickly! (If I'm talking or thinking about left or right I have to say it out loud, hold up the relevant hand and wiggle it! ). Whenever the examiner told me to turn left or right 'at the junction ahead', I had to mutter it under my breath and surreptiously wiggle that hand on the steering wheel!

 

I ended up feeling sick with worry over my driving lessons in a manual car, so I switched to an automatic and just loved it!

 

Well, I passed on my second attempt, and I was 7 months pregnant with no.3! At one point the examiner told me to pull over and take some deep breaths before continuing...

 

It's interesting to find out about the declaration for the Provisional licence...

 

How do any of you AS adults find busy traffic??

 

Thanks again,

 

Bid

[smallworld]

Hi Bid,

I'm so glad you started this thread. I've been wondering for a while how many parents here don't drive (it's cropped up a few times in various threads) and if I knew how, I'd have done a poll !

I've just turned 42 and still can't drive. My mother asks me every year on my birthday "now are you going to learn to drive ?" as though me getting older makes me feel more able to. I'm starting to dread this question more than facing my increasing age.

Like you Bid, I think I have aspie traits and I cannot cope with having to do all those things at once in a manual car. My other half (definite traits) tells me it's like walking and will become second nature (yeh!)I have learned before and failed my test so of course, gave up !

I have now said that I will only learn in an automatic, but this idea just gets ridiculed by anyone I mention it to. I am quite heartened by this thread and am working myself up to having another bash.

That said, why does everyone assume that all of us can drive ? I see lots of people on the road who would be better, and safer on foot.

Keep threatening to go on a week's intensive course (mainly as a way to escape )

nobody takes me seriously, but the idea gets more appealing as the summer holidays approach !

 

wac

[bid]

Hi Wacs!

 

Just you go for the automatic!

 

People have been sniffy with me because I drive an automatic...but who cares?? I can drive, and anyway in America and Australia the majority of cars are automatics so yah boo sucks to them!

 

Once I started driving an automatic I actually began to enjoy driving, and I was safer too, because all my concentration was on the road and the traffic instead of panicking about the gears and the clutch.

 

You go for it girl...I passed my test when I was 7 months pregnant and 31!

 

To me manual cars seem to be a silly, old-fashioned idea...like washing by hand instead of using a washing machine!

 

Bid

[smallworld]

Thanks Bid,

I know what you say makes total sense to me.

Now, can you book me a lesson and bundle me into the car, A sort of 'surprise, surprise' for reluctant learners ?

See, I just come up with excuses for not actually getting round to learning !

 

I have friend who has just started learning (and incidentally has raised some fears about her son's as traits) She made me howl with laughter at her plan of action,

week 1 : look in the yellow pages for a driving instructor

week 2 : ring said driving instructor

week 3 : actually book a lesson

week 4 : actually have a lesson

 

she's now into about week 7 of the plan and driving around the outlying villages of our town. She tells me that she's quite happy to take a long time to learn.

I know that I wouldn't be !

The other problem I have, is with reversing. I can never be sure whether cars I see in the mirror are coming towards me or not, and as for reversing round a corner ? you might as well ask me to pat my head while rubbing my tum !

Good job nobody knows where I live, I can just imagine the fear going through all you drivers out there !

Will let you know if I get on the road, ever.

 

wac

P.S. was nearly knocked down by an elderly lady mounting the pavement at a bus stop this week. Cars are dangerous objects in the wrong hands !!

[Sallya]

I passed my test at the end of last year after 4 tests in a manual. I had lots of trouble with left and right, especially when reversing. In the end, I wrote it on the back of my hand. It took 14 months of lessons, and a very patient driving instructor. I first took lessons at 17, but never got around to taking the test,and had 2 more instructors, who got to a certain point with me then I gave up after I failed my first test 9 years ago when I was pregnant with 1st child. I didnt try again until 2 years ago, and this time I was really determined, and totally fed up of trying to get around on buses and trains, and struggling with shopping and 2 small children, and coping with the public when they were staring and making comments.

 

The main problems I had with driving were anticipating what other road users were doing, and not going off into a dream world. Roundabouts would scare the life out of me. Nerves were a big problem, and on one of my tests, my knees started to shake. When I did pass, I had motorway lessons as well.

Now I love driving, Ive overcome my nerves, and mastered reversing. This will be the first summer holidays I can drive. Now Ive passed, I dont care it took 4 goes, it was just when trying to pass the test it was an issue. The roads are busier, and drivers are more aggressive than ever, and beware of any one in a flat cap travelling along at 20 miles an hour( never had an accident in 40 years, but seen plenty)and the actual test is easy to mess up. Anyone could find it difficult to learn to drive now, but its worth doing, a good instructor wont let you give up.

 

xxx

[Amanda32]

I dont know much about the DVLA and Asperger's but just saying about my experience of driving......

I started to have lessons few years back and the instructor kept saying I needed valeum (wrong spelling).... I was all stiff but he made me feel at ease with his sense of humour all the time. He always kept saying I repeated myself and do I do it at home......YES.... Well passed my theory 2nd time as was 1 question out on the first not going over things. I had lots of lessons and ended up passing on my 4th driving test what a bag of nerves I was..... Well I had been driving the hubby's car once or twice a week in the past but now I have stopped because my nerves gets me since trying and to change cars is difficult for me. I know I have got my licence but perhaps im just used to driving power steering as always drove them. My hubby said to me when we had a different car get in and have a go......Yes already past then he kept saying now do this way watch the other cars.... Got into the drivers seat and he still kept telling me how to drive..like if im having lessons all over again. Not drove since and that was 2 years ago. I think I need my own car but too much cost for 1 household and it wouldn't get used that often. Where ive had problems with my self esteem etc I have left it as think its safer for everyone else until I feel more confident again. Not sure if anyone else as been like this after passing their tests.

Take care

Amanda

Edited July 13, 2005 by Amanda32

[~Jonathan~]

Good thread

 

I was always obsessed with cars as a child, used to have those I-Spy books and tick off the cars I'd see. I had books and books about cars, different makes and models and was always going on about them. At 17, I got myself a provisional license and my cousin offered to teach me to drive for free until I got the confidence up to have proper lessons. I had 5 or 6 lessons and that was more than enough.

 

Driving terrified me I couldn't change the gears without first looking down at them and then I would be veering across the lanes. Balancing the clutch I found hellish. There was just so much to do all at once that I couldn't handle it. I would sweat and on a couple of occasions, actually broke down with the stress of it. Even now (at 31) my Mum can't understand why I wouldn't want to drive and tells me I'm gutless, well maybe I am but I don't want to ever get behind the wheel of a car again.

 

[Gordie]

My Aspie qualities made it very difficult for me to concentrate on the physical multi-tasking with a manual, at the same time as concentrating on the road and other traffic (Which is funny, because my fine motor skills are excellent for sewing, etc.)

 

I ended up feeling sick with worry over my driving lessons in a manual car, so I switched to an automatic and just loved it!

To be honest, I don't think I'd find it much different if I did change to an automatic. It's only have to changing gear that you lose the responsibility for, and there are so many other things to think about while driving that that isn't a huge amount of difference, I don't think. Just my personal opinion though.

 

I do know my left and right, but I find it difficult to identify them quickly! (If I'm talking or thinking about left or right I have to say it out loud, hold up the relevant hand and wiggle it! ). Whenever the examiner told me to turn left or right 'at the junction ahead', I had to mutter it under my breath and surreptiously wiggle that hand on the steering wheel!

Thankfully I have no problems at all there.

 

How do any of you AS adults find busy traffic??

Hmmm ... stressful! But hopefully that's just beginner's nerves, and it'll get easier over time. It's just being conscious that you're being watched and analysed by so many people around you that makes it hard work. "Are they losing their temper at my driving?" ... "Are they gonna 'beep' me?" ... etc. Stopping and starting all the time in traffic jams/queues is really hard for me too - it's so easy to stall the thing and then hold up the long queue behind you. So much preparation to be done every time you need to start moving again. But practice makes perfect, I guess!

 

I've been wondering for a while how many parents here don't drive (it's cropped up a few times in various threads) and if I knew how, I'd have done a poll !

I'll do one for you now.

 

James

[Valiant_Skylark]

Don't feel bad, Jonathan. My Dad put our first car in a ditch - with us in it - trying to learn to drive. His vision wasn't really reliable enough and his co-ordination worries sound very like yours, although his fine motor skills were excellent and he did "precision" work. Eventually he gave up trying and my Mum drove us all around instead. I've never, ever considered my father "gutless". I think he was "before his time" in recognising his limitations and I think his decision not to drive was a very courageous one. He knew himself best.

 

I passed my driving test first time, although I had loads of lessons, and the driving instructor was always telling me to "go faster". I was a very cautious learner!!!

 

I started driving in manual Mini and enjoyed it. The roads were far quieter than they are today. All I noticed was that I needed to drive carefully within the speed limit and did little motorway driving anyway. I did notice that I had a problem with night driving and was "blinded" by the oncoming lights. I avoided driving after dusk and stuck to lit roads.

 

I also drove tractors with trailers and found I was fine with these as I could see all four corners easily. Even reversing trailers was mastered spatially. But I found the constant tooing and froing on tractors made me get motion sickness and gave me headaches. I also found I had difficulty swapping from being on tractors all day to driving a car again. It was hard to adjust to the correct pressure on the pedals qv proprioception difficulties? Similarly I used to dread having to use "pool cars" as I took a lot longer to find the right pressure for the pedals than other people. Being short,I often found the pool cars were "too big" and I had difficulty reaching the pedals etc anyway, which always un-nerved me as I was told to "just get on with it". Help! (I hope this wouldn't be allowed to happen at work in this day and age?!)

 

Later, in much bigger cars, I noticed I had subtle problems with depth perception. Parking the car in a crowded car park was tricky. If someone parked up too close to me I would have to sit and wait until the owner returned before I could drive off. I wondered if it was because I was driving a car with no power steering, because, these days, people assume you can corkscrew your motor out of the tiniest gaps... just because their car has this capability. I changed to a car with power steering. It was far easier, but I still found I had to actually get out of the car to see just how far away I was from an obstacle in parking.

 

I began to think carefully about where I parked... so no-one could park up close. I got to events early and left late... to avoid the crush of cars. OH has to back my car on to "tight" driveway... (Oh and thanks to those who post on KRISM who have seen me out of "tight spots" in my car on occasions... They know who they are - you wonderful people you)

 

I also noticed that I had difficulties driving on motorways in that it is more difficult to change lanes if you can't rely on your vision to be totally accurate about what is coming up on either side. I very rarely drive on motorways anymore although my driving instructor certainly considered me to be safe to do so when I passed my test.

 

My night vision was a problem, it turns out, because of an uncorrected very mild astigmatism - it causes blurring of on-coming lights. However, when I went on MorEPA my night vision improved quite noticably, and I can now drive at night with little problem.

 

 

I've often had to drive with the sun visor down. I've been assessed and told I have light sensitivity. A different assessment told me that the fact that the mild astigmatism was never picked up and treated has led to my having these subtle problems with depth and distance perception (amblyopia). It was agreed that my driving had been affected but that by being so ultra-careful and thinking of every strategy in the book I had remained accident-free for 25 years. I am, therefore, able to continue driving.

 

OH changed all our cars to automatics as he has hip problems. WOW! Why didn't I do this before??? It is great! So easy. Now other NT people we know are changing to automatics and no-one wants to go back to a manual.

 

Eldest son will, I think, struggle with taking everything into account on the roads in terms of attention and vision (together with co-ordination difficulties), although he can already drive tractors, mowers and quad bikes on private farm land under close supervision. I have warned him that learning to drive on the roads could be tricky for him, as it was for my father. We have agreed that, when the time comes, we will book him in for an assessment (�60 in today's prices) with MAVIS in Crowthorne and get an objective measure of his ability to cope with learning to drive. Hopefully this will mean that it is not me, personally, making the decision on whether he can learn to drive or not. I don't want to be shot as the messenger! We agreed between us that this is the fairest way of dealing with the situation as his own and other people's lives are ultimately at risk if we get it wrong. Eldest son seems happy with this at the mo.

 

Valiant-Skylark xx