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      Depression, Mental Health and Crisis Support   06/04/2017

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darkshine

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Is there ever any things that people want to talk about - but don't for some reason - and if so, what things? And why don't you talk about them?

Edited by darkshine

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myself. pepole get bored because they dont want to talk about me, they want to talk about themselves.

 

I've noticed that... Most of the people I know do it :wallbash:

 

Do you think people are like that on here too? Cuz people do what you say a lot in "real life" but do you think it is true to the same degree on here or less or more? Or is it different?

 

To me, this is one of the first places in my life where I have actually been allowed to talk about me - its still a novelty at times :)

Edited by darkshine

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LancsLad   

I think the forum is an interesting place in this respect because I know I behave somewhat differently here.

 

On the forum I think I talk about elements from my life a lot in a way to try and validate my thoughts, a kind of I have had these experiences this is why I think this way. I could of course not talk about myself and simply put up what I think. I know that some members take this approach and I think that was a ###### good statement and wonder what life experiences have you had to come to those conclusions, so it can work both ways. I quite like the fact some members are a bit of a mystery.

 

In 'real life' as you say people do talk about themselves a lot and I normally let them get on with it and am very quiet observer in the conversation. The difficulty I sometimes have is predicting where their conversations might go. There are a few areas such as cycling, triathlon, cricket possibly even design where I feel I need to make a decision at an early stage of a converstation about declaring my level of interest and experience. If I keep out and let them carry on I know coming in at a point down the line can be very tricky. For example I know A-S Warrior has played club cricket. I am not sure at what level his club are at, the most important thing is he enjoyed the sport and it sounded like he had a good time. I am not sure if he would do this (using it as an example A-S) but he could be in a pub and in full flow regarding his exploits on the cricket pitch and a few others might join in talking about how they once got the winning run for their house in the end of term school house challenge. A-S Warrior might well think I am talking about 'club' cricket here but go along with the conversation to humour them. I know there is no way I could come in and for example list the International players I have played with or against, it would kill everything. If I was to declare my interests early on A-S Warrior might think this will be an interesting conversation but the other individuals might think there is nothing in this for me and in my experience try and do their utmost to change the topic. In social situation my worst nighmare is the individual who says 'I'm really into cycling......' my gut reaction would be, where the hell do I go from here. I suspect this is the same for many people who have special interests, they want to talk about a lot but have to find out does the other person want to listen or not.

 

As someone not gifted in social situations my ideal scenario would be someone starting a conversation talking about themselves regarding something I had never done or had a view on but with which I might be able to make a few connections. For example they might be talking about playing squash and representing a club, I would come in with 'I have never played squash, but I played badminton at U14 county level before I had to give it up because of bad knees, are they similar or not?' In this way I feel my sense of self is intact and I can come in on the conversation at my level.

 

In general terms Darkshine I would say there are significantly far less egos on the forum compared to 'real life'. I think in the main this is down to self esteem issues and a lack of confidence in valuing what we might have done. Interestingly I think many of the people in real life who cant stop talking about themselves also have self esteem issues and it elicits the opposite behaviour.

 

I am sure there is a balance which can be struck but it is so difficult to gauge. In some ways I wonder if we have a responsibility to be honest and talk about our lives more or is it reasonable to sit in silence. I can think of one example in my own life which might explain my thoughts;

 

In the early eighties we had a really hard winter, might have been 1984. Basically the Lake District was in the best winter ice climbing condition it had been in decades. As a result me and my mate decided to go to Wasdale Head and climb every day for a couple of weeks before the conditions broke. If people don't know Wasdale Head is a cull de sac of a place with a handfull of buildings which sits under Scafell Pike. There is a pub there and we put the tent up in the back and at night the landlord would open up and we would get a bottle of scotch out of the stock and work our way through it together. The pub didn't normally open in the week durring winter but because the lights were on a few locals came in and we would have five or six of us in most nights which was a godsend otherwise we would have been pissed for most of the time. One of these guys was Joss Naylor a 'shepherd' who we got to know reasonably well that fortnight, see Wikii page below.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joss_Naylor

 

At the end of the week we were asked did we fancy comming up later in the year and help to marshall the Three Peaks Challenge because we had been in with the mountain rescue guys and girls in these drinking sessions, we said sure. The Three Peaks Challange is a sailing and running race which starts in Wales and the middle leg sees the yachts sail into the Cumbrian west coat and one runner then runs to the highest point in England and back to the boat before it finishes in Scotland . When we returned to Wasdale Head everyrthing was different it was really busy and we were in the pub one night with our marshalls bibs and T-shirt still on having a few drinks with the locals with Joss quietly sat minding his own bussiness at the end of the bar. A group of individuals came in from London and started to ask about what was going on with this Three Peaks stuff and all that. We explained and then they asked how long it was taking them to do the run and we told them, off course they could do it quicker and in fact they were going to give it a go the next day, a couple had done the London Marathon so this was easy in comparrison. They asked what the route was and someone said ask Joss he's from round here he might know. I think his first response was there is a flag at the top simply go round that. The locals simply kept pushing them in the direction of Joss and he kept coming out with dry one liners, and the game continued. As it went on it became evdent that breaking record would be on the next day bacause half of it was downhill! It came to the point when someone suggested that Joss kind of knowing the way might want to run the first bit with them to get them started. The group decided that it might not be fair expecting a 50 year old to keep up with them because they were really going to go for it and didn't want to be slowed down. It got to the stage when we were close to crying to stop laughing and someone from this London group obviously trying to work out why would someone lived here, we were obviously there for the Three Peaks event, turned to Joss Naylor and said 'what do you do?' It was one of those moments when you wanted him to give it to them and put them in their place. The bar went silent as we waited for the answer 'Oh I just look after a few sheep' was his answer, there was a pause and we all just broke down in hysterics. My gut reaction at the time and still is the answer wasn't fair but it was ###### funny.

 

I use this example because is there a balance to strike about who we are or is this all a game and if we want to keep our cards close to our chest thats fine. I think what made the situation in the Lake District what it was that some of us knew what Joss could do, yes he was a shepherd who lived there but he was also rightly 'the legend' in fell running. There was no way these pratts from London were going to dent his self esteem, I am sure he did not feel his own record for running to the top of Scafell Pike was under threat from anyone in that group the following day. And I feel this is the crux of it, it is fine to sit in silence as long as our own self esteem is intact and healthy. When people dominate proceedings to the point where it inhibits people to express themselves then maybe that's not fair and something we need to be mindfull of. I think a forum by its nature can not restrict people because someone can be writting a reply at the same time as I am writing this. Social situations are very different. There are times when I get anoyed with myself for remaining silent and think you should have said something you had a good point to make but you kept quiet why? In terms of self esteem this sort of thinking can be conterproductive.

 

It might be the case Darkshine that in 'real life' you were allowed but the rules mean you have to fight for your place and are expected to big yourself up a bit in doing so. If that was the case find some better people to socialise with because the ones you have experienced are pretty shallow in my book, I would listen to you speak all day quite happily.

 

Just a few thoughts.

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I liked the story LancsLad, it made me laugh because I've been in the odd circumstance where something similar happened - but with people who weren't the best at anything - but they were still miles better than the upstarts who thought they'd be brilliant :lol:

 

I often have a respect for people like that, who relatively quietly go about their life and achievements with a sense of dignity and inner pride. But don't feel the need to go shouting their achievements from the rooftops, they don't need to do that because they know their own abilities. And the few people I have met like that are often very humble about it all. And if someone did do something better they'd just say hats off to you and seem happy for the person who did it better.

 

You never know who you are going to meet in life, and you never fully know someone - even someone you have known for years can still let something out that can be a surprise.

 

When in a social world I'm not a great talker, I really prefer to listen - for lots of reasons - like in that other post where you gave examples and I said how it annoys the hell out of me - but also for reasons such as these:

 

If you actually listen to people and are not just hearing them make a noise, and if you actually see a person instead of just looking - you see and listen and you discover things that not many people discover.

 

Another reason I don't talk much is for the very reason that most people I meet, they speak and speak but they aren't talking with me or to me, they are just speaking to hear the sound of their own voice, and when I talk to them they aren't actually listening, they are just hearing a noise while they wait to speak again. They look at me but they don't see me, they don't want to know who I am.

 

I'll tell you what though, it's amazing what people actually do say when I get them on their own, when they lower their social barriers and let their boundaries shift and change - shame it doesn't last though cuz as soon as they go back out into the world they act just like they always do. And I've found that people don't like hearing the truth very much when they are out in the social world.

 

It might be the case Darkshine that in 'real life' you were allowed but the rules mean you have to fight for your place and are expected to big yourself up a bit in doing so. If that was the case find some better people to socialise with because the ones you have experienced are pretty shallow in my book, I would listen to you speak all day quite happily.

 

Those last 10 words - that's one of the nicest things someone has said to me - not many people say that - and even less people mean it - and it means quite a lot to me when someone says that they would listen to me and when I know they mean it. There aren't many people that I know that I can say exactly what I want to say to and not be worried about so much other stuff.

 

The funny thing is - I may have been "allowed" to talk in some situations but it doesn't fee like I am. I will not fight to be able to talk, I mostly refuse to - I am not a very loud person so people do have to actually concentrate to listen to me - what's the point in trying when everyone is shouting over me? If they wanted to listen to what I had to say they would shut up and let me get a word in edgeways. If the situation is important enough I will make a greater effort to be heard, but the rest of the time I just cannot be bothered with shouting and I cannot be bothered to waste my breath.

 

And the ironic thing is that when everyone is having a discussion and realises that I haven't said anything, they sometimes turn and go "well what do you think Darkshine?" and I get to choose whether to just smile and say "no you carry on" or I might have my say - but those times are really hard for me because I really don't want the attention of more than 2 people to be focused on me, and quite often the pressure makes me back off.

 

I said before that I'm not a great talker in a social way, but when I'm with someone I'm really comfortable with - like some of my family - I have been known to go on and on and on - til I usually get told to shut up :rolleyes:

 

I think that's why I like this forum so much - because for the first time in my life I actually feel like I can have a say - and although they are simple words they actually are a very big thing.

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The good thing about the forum is that you can say what you like - at whatever length you want - and no one will tell you to shut up.

 

They may, of course, ignore what you say .....!

 

(BTW, why can't I access emoticoms for my posts?)

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LancsLad   

Darkshine have been out on my bike for a few hours and was thinking through what I might say next. I thought I would pick up from the last point and that is who you choose to socialise and what the rules might be for different groups and where ego might come in to things.

 

A lot of this is to do with your points of who will you meet in life, and how people who really know their own abilities are often very quiet humble but very self assured. I can think of one very good example I aluded to in a comment I made to A-S warrior a couple of days back. I used to play cricket at my local club for around 10 years or so and played with a guy called Colin who happens to be Andrew 'Freddie' Flintoff's dad. As a result I have met and played with Andrew a few times. He would often come down if he was injured and watch his dad for a bit, and ask me how he had been playing in the season. For me he is never 'Freddie' but always Andrew and part of a trio of Colin, Chris (his brother who if anything was a better cricketer as a junior) and Andrew. Because of the set up there we would often stay for a lock in for a few hours and have a couple of beers over a few games of snooker or darts. If someone where to ask me what's he like in real life, I would say who Colin , Chris or the other one? If I had to say what 'Freddie' is like I would say he is better at snooker than his dad. If I have something in common with Andrew it is we were both first time dads within a couple of weeks of each other which was a tricky time because the local maternity hospital was transfaring to a new building and we didn't have a clue where the babys would be born. Rachel his wife had their daughter in the old unit, my partner had our son on the second day the new unit was opened, as such that was what conversations tend to be about, kids.

 

I guess there are a few people out there who would quite hapily pay a few quid to charity to have few beers and a couple of games of snooker with 'Freddie', but in my experience it simply doesn't work like that. I have played against him in charity 6 a side tournaments and can remeber pulling a ball short and knowing it was a sitting duck and was expecting it to go whistling out of the ground, only for him to nudge it for a single jog down the pitch and wink at me, all I could do was shrug my shoulders and smile knowing a team mate is going to get a kicking off his bat the next over. Anyone who doesn't make me look an idiot in front of a big crowd in such circumstances is a good guy in my book!

 

Personally its all about a healthy level of respect for each other. Darkshine you are so right in that you have to see the person for who they are.I was not surprised one bit by the excellent programme Andrew Flintoff made for the BBC about depression in sport. The reviews were very good for it and it surprised a lot of people, but not me, because I have had the opportunity to observe the person close up and see him for what he is. I have also had the opportunity to talk to his dad a bit and ask how is he getting on when things might not have been going his way as a result you do discover things about people and often that is we are all simply human at the end of the day. In so many ways I can not understand the super ego culture which is so prommiment is so many sections of society. In my limited experience is that when you get into the top echelons of something like sport or business its simply not there, individuals would not be able to sustain a super ego as there is too much quality around to blow the concept away. For me ego only seems to exist many levels below that and it doesn't seem to lead anywhere if anything it takes a massive amount of maintenance to sustain, and if that energy were spent getting on with improving aspects of life which mattered I am sure individuls would be happier and more productive.

 

I think very often it is what we do not do which is just as important if not more so, against what we might do in trying to impress. Being quiet, consistent and importantly yourself is a very endearing quality to have. A lot of people might not think such an approach opens up opportunities but often it can and when it does they are often worth having.

 

Just a few more thoughts.

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I think very often it is what we do not do which is just as important if not more so, against what we might do in trying to impress. Being quiet, consistent and importantly yourself is a very endearing quality to have. A lot of people might not think such an approach opens up opportunities but often it can and when it does they are often worth having.

 

Just a few more thoughts.

 

I've spent a lot of life not knowing who I am... but I don't feel endearing when I'm quiet or when I'm being myself - I don't know how consistent I am - but endearing isn't a word that initially springs to mind - I see it as being flawed when I view myself - even though I respect other people for being that way (not much of a contradiction in terms then).

 

You know what? Who a person is, well, It's a bit like answering the question that docs ask about the last 2 weeks - "how have the last 2 weeks been?" - they say - and I stand there going errrrrr - because I don't know which bits I'm supposed to be talking about - I struggle to find the relevant parts - and I stand there with a film reel going through my head trying to land upon something to say. (While everyone stares at me waiting for me to answer that oh so “simple” question.)

 

Well it's like that with who I am - when people start describing themselves in certain ways, picking parts of themselves that they wish others to see - picking maybe the best parts... Well I can't do that - I know I am too complex to just answer that question and I know I can never answer it completely - it's an impossible question - there's stuff that could happen that could change things and then the old stuff isn't true any more is it? Because as much as I know I am complex - I also know that I am not a fixed thing either, not that easy to define.

 

The people I sometimes see, they all have their own rules - and the more people there are the more complicated the rules become, even just 4 people can be hard to figure out because the rules change and people change how they are according to who is there. I don't know where their ego's fit in. I don't see "friends" that often. But they definitely all have their own rules.

 

I guess it often frustrates me that over 90% of the people I talk to, whether in person, on the phone or via email, they don't want to know what my life is like or what I think - the things I think sometimes aren't things that other people want to think about or talk about - although my post signature is a vast exaggeration (about people and stars) - it is how I feel - I only come across a minority of people who want to know, or want to hear it, and even more importantly think of a proper responses instead of throw away comments (a an attempt to end the line the conversation was taking - I know that cuz they change the subject to studies or weather or their holidays).

 

A lot of the time with people I talk to via email or in person I just can't be bothered to try - I keep conversation to safe things - but it leaves me feeling dissatisfied (another reason I like the forum as I come across people who like talking about random, deep or interesting stuff as well as serious things and people say things that make me laugh sometimes).

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