Anyone know how to help with wrist/hand pain?

[darkshine]

I'm seeking 2 lots of advice here if anyone can help with either or both - I am tired of pain so would be pretty grateful for some info if anyone has any in their heads...

 

I knackered my wrists working in a factory when I was about 18 or 19 - RSI - basically, and they;ve never been great ever since. Then, on the 1st of January 2011 I pulled a ligament in my little finger in my right hand - it still isn't right a year and a half later.

 

It is my right hand/finger/wrist that is causing me problems. I get pain through the little finger all the way along the side of my hand to my wrist. I have something that feels like it's popped out along the top of my wrist on the left side, sort of where my hand joins to my wrist - right on the bone there. I have pain that travels across the back of my hand near my wrist, and my wrist hurts too.

 

Firstly

 

Does anyone know much about wrist/hand supports? Because I can find plenty but I don't know which kind to get or which ones are best - a bandage and strapping does work but it's a hassle and expensive to keep buying it as the strapping never stays on and I wreck a bandage or tube bandage after a couple or three days.

 

Secondly

 

I wondered if anyone knows if there are ways I can strengthen my finger, hand and wrist without damaging them further. (so three things then)

 

This is a problem that periodically rears it's head and usually goes with enough rest

 

It is making it hard to do things without pain. Pain-wise, it's manageable, I don't need painkillers, or creams - but I don't just want to sit here and let it get worse (which it has been doing) which is why I'm asking.

 

Hopefully

 

Darkshine

[robert7111a]

_Darkshine

 

_{I know you're not a fan of doctors but it might help to find out whether this is joint-related pain or neuralgia (nerve pain).}

 

_{Do you play a keyboard (i.e. electric piano etc)?. If so, gentle daily finger exercises to strengthen your wrist/fingers should work wonders.}

[darkshine]

I've been to a doc in the past when it's been agony - but they just went "it's RSI" and gave me some cream that didn't do much...

 

I don't know for certain, but it really doesn't feel like joint pain, it's like the muscles or tendons or whatever are really tight. The finger injury is something to do with the ligament - which is like tissue damage around the joint.

 

I was trying to practice playing the keyboard a bit but it's aggravated my hand typical - that's why I wondered if there was stuff that was particularly designed for hand or wrists - like exercises or whatever...

[Mumble]

Chop them off at the elbow.

[robert7111a]

There are excellent finger exercises by Hanon if they are available for download and you can perform at your own pace

[LancsLad]

Just want to say I am a bit of an interested amateur in this respect but have done a sports therapy diploma which in my experience often means I have a bit more of a clue than you average GP.

 

Our fingers are opperated by the muscles in our forearm. When we bend our fingers you should be able to see the muscles working away, well you can if your arm are string beans like mine, have just checked and this is the case. In many places in our body we have something called fascia and there is a lot of it in our hands and a band of it around our wrist, think of it as a non stretchy wrist band. Underneath this fascia band pass all the tendons, or strings which attatch the muscle all the way to the bones in our fingertips. Without these bands when we contract the muscles in our forearms the string or tendons would take the shortest route possible and if you think about this it would be a straight line from a bent fingertip to your elbow, pretty horrible thought. It is the fascia which means we can grip by feeding tendons along the lines of our bones and there if potential friction as the tendons slide underneath these bands when we grip/move our fingers. Because the closest band to the muscle is in the wrist this is where the most force is exerted and the refered pain arrises. If you grip a solid object which will not compress a few times you might be able to get the pain all the way down the finger as well.

 

To reduce the friction the tendons have sheath of lubricated coverings which they slide within. Conditions such as carpal tunnel syndrome are simply a case of too much friction as tendons move around and become swollen which increases friction and as a result it can become problematic.

 

I wanted to explain this because often what people do is counterproductive. You can get wrist supports which have metal plates in them and this is designed to stop flexing the wrist and creating pinch points. This is a good idea if you do not use the hand much and are there to rest it basically. To wear a support and use the hand is not a good idea. What is also not a good idea is to bandage the wrist up in a compression dressing as squesing all this stuff together simply makes it harder for the tendon to pass through its sheath and under the fascia and so things get worse.

 

treatments are to inject cortisone into the area which breaks down fat basically and as such creates a bit of volume for pressure to be released. However fat is good as it is there to offer protection from knocks and jolts. My partner has had three or four cortizone injections for carpal tunnel sysndrome and they become less and less effective each time in most cases.

 

I agree with Robert about exercises it is about balancing rest with keeping things moving freely. The killer on this is partial repetitive actions. Things like constant mouse clicking in the mid range of a movement means joints and as a result tendons are never fully pulled through and by exercising in the full range lubricating the sheath happens. These exercises work best focusing on individual fingers especially on the little finger because our forearms tend to work on our power fingers in providing a strong grip and we have not really evolved yet to deal with some of the more finer repetitive movement patterns of modern humans.

 

You could also try some anti inflamatory creams which are advertised, my opinion waste of time there is one hell of a lot of tissue to penetrate through there and can't see how they could work to be honest.

 

The final option in these things is surgery where they serate the fascia with a blade and open it up a bit to create a bit of extra volume in the wrist, my partner has had that done and it seems to have worked well so far, fingers crossed, well not too often because that might bring it on again.

 

Just a few half educated thoughts.

[Mumble]

Just a few half educated thoughts.

[darkshine]

Chop them off at the elbow.

 

I seriously considered it but I figured writing assignments/emails/forum stuff with my nose or toes would get tedious really quickly

[darkshine]

There are excellent finger exercises by Hanon if they are available for download and you can perform at your own pace

 

Thank you - I have had a look and bookmarked the site because it looks pretty interesting and has more than one use - I pretty much taught myself to play for at 14 then got lessons maybe a year later at 15 cuz of GCSE music and although I was given exercises to do, I was just told which ones to do rather than having any fixed method to follow - I basically used to just remember to do what he said - Although a couple of the exercises are similar so maybe that's where he got them from - he never gave me any written exercises although I obviously got given music to practise and there was a fair bit of practising required - I wish I'd have learned piano from the start, but I liked the way I can mess with the sounds on a keyboard and my parents could never have fit a piano into their house so I settled for that. I do regret it though as I must have had some skill at it because my teacher jumped me straight in to a keyboard level 3 exam, then I did piano level 1 and then he jumped me to level 5 on keyboard after that and I passed them all first time.

 

I should think those exercises will keep me busy for some time - especially since I'm gonna have to remind myself to read the bass clef (bottom line/left hand line) again as I've pretty out of practice because I only argued to get the keyboard out of the loft (it's the one I had at 16) just before xmas - and the stuff I liked playing with on it (creating my own stuff) can't be done now because the electrics didn't like being kept in a loft and the top 3 keys don't work - not that that matters - I can transpose them up or down if I want to - annoying though that is

 

And another reason I'm out of practice is that I haven't had to actually read music all that much cuz so far I've just been messing with Beatles songs to get back into it - I also like to find something I like and learn to play it with my eyes closed - I am out of practice with that too lol - so far this last half a year I'd retaught myself to play canon (in the easy key of C) that way, plus some stuff I made up, and have now shifted to "your song" which is a little harder but I''ve maybe tried it for an hour (spread over 2 months with a few minutes practice at it) and am nearly there...

 

Which brings me to another reason - and that would be that I don't dedicate myself to it nearly as much as I could and don't even practice every day and a few minutes is hardly practising...

 

Anyway... Thanks again, that's the sort of thing that will interest me at the same time as hopefully improving the movement and strength in my hand as my right hand has definitely got worse than I thought - as I used to be able to do the spock thing and can't any more - and right now with the problems with pain if I even try - my fingers are just evenly spaced and my hand shakes and it's harder to have full movement in my fingers when I bend them and stuff.

[robert7111a]

HTH

[A-S warrior]

doctor A-S prsecritions:

 

take a week off from the boards, purchace a tubigrip, pack the wrist in ice from time to time, and avoid any wrist action that maybe deemed as repetitve (ahem)

[darkshine]

doctor A-S prsecritions:

 

take a week off from the boards, purchace a tubigrip, pack the wrist in ice from time to time, and avoid any wrist action that maybe deemed as repetitve (ahem)

 

I have both typing and writing to do for my course from tomorrow onwards cuz it was a target I set - writing is worse to be honest and I have a fair amount to do...

[darkshine]

I wanted to explain this because often what people do is counterproductive. You can get wrist supports which have metal plates in them and this is designed to stop flexing the wrist and creating pinch points. This is a good idea if you do not use the hand much and are there to rest it basically. To wear a support and use the hand is not a good idea. What is also not a good idea is to bandage the wrist up in a compression dressing as squesing all this stuff together simply makes it harder for the tendon to pass through its sheath and under the fascia and so things get worse.

 

Thank you for the explanation, I got sick of the compression bandages as they didn't seem to help as they were too tight. If I use a bandage at all (which I don't like doing as it reminds of self harm lol) I only wrap it loosely and that does seem to help - so long as I'm not using my hand.

 

I was wondering about a wrist support because I've seen people use them for sports and stuff and I've seen people use different ones for typing but don't really know that much about whether they are useful or harmful.

 

In addition the problem with my little finger - it sounds so stupid to people - maybe not you - but other people, that it's actually really important, everything is harder to grip or manipulate because my little finger is still not "right" after pulling the ligament (even though that was a year and a half ago). The weakness in that finger seems to put more stress on the back of my hand (between my thumb and forefinger), so I wondered if there were specific things that could strengthen it or increase movement in it (without me killing it) as for that one finger the keyboard practise makes little to no difference, if anything it makes it worse.

 

I agree with Robert about exercises it is about balancing rest with keeping things moving freely. The killer on this is partial repetitive actions. Things like constant mouse clicking in the mid range of a movement means joints and as a result tendons are never fully pulled through and by exercising in the full range lubricating the sheath happens. These exercises work best focusing on individual fingers especially on the little finger because our forearms tend to work on our power fingers in providing a strong grip and we have not really evolved yet to deal with some of the more finer repetitive movement patterns of modern humans.

 

Yes, it's the mid range actions that are hell, I can pick up something pretty heavy without a problem (yes that's with 2 hands) but with my right hand I struggle to lift mid-weights, things like the kettle or 4 pints of milk, or a heavy book. I also struggle with opening things that require the lid to be pulled off, or twisted off (if it's something with a tight large lid).

 

I've shifted to my netbook so I can use the mousepad as that requires far less stretching and a more natural hand position - anyway, I do most things with the keyboard and have abandoned certain things I did that used the mouse for the time being.

 

I'm resting it when it has the slightest tinge but not for too long because it all seizes up and gets weaker if I don't keep using it - which is why I am interested whether there are other exercises (other than playing a keyboard - which requires my hands to be in a position that strains the wrists at times - although I will be doing that too soon as the rest is helping for now...) sorry, other exercises that I can do to increase a more full range of movement (in my fingers and wrist) and possibly to increase the strength...

 

You could also try some anti inflamatory creams which are advertised, my opinion waste of time there is one hell of a lot of tissue to penetrate through there and can't see how they could work to be honest.

 

The final option in these things is surgery where they serate the fascia with a blade and open it up a bit to create a bit of extra volume in the wrist, my partner has had that done and it seems to have worked well so far, fingers crossed, well not too often because that might bring it on again.

 

Just a few half educated thoughts.

 

The problem with getting zero feedback when I have been to the docs is that I don't know how bad the damage originally was (and the wrist damage is quite a long time ago now, over a decade) all I remember is that they were agony for about 9 months, burning hot agony. And I don't know whether that damage ever actually healed or if my wrists are just weak from the degradation that occurred while spending 9 months in agony with them (plus a while longer with them just twinging), they were pretty strong prior to the factory work - but then that was twisting and stuff all day when I'd previously been doing stuff that didn't require that movement.

 

Basically is possible to do anything about it without the injection/surgery route - or would I need to find that out from a GP?

 

As for creams - occasionally deep heat can help, but that depends on what my hand is like, I barely use it, I do find the 10% ibuprofen gel helps a bit, but that could equally be the act of massaging it it I suppose.

[darkshine]

Dunno if anyone cares but I had the random phone call today and they are sending me a letter with an appointment to have another consultation to see if they can do anything... so... a phone consultation and then an actual one... don't know when it will be but what the hell... I just want to do something proactive about it because it impedes me... so I obviously said whatever the "right" things were on the phone or I assume I'd have been sent stuff to do it myself

[A-S warrior]

id rather live with the wrist pain lol, less hassle

[darkshine]

It looks that way dunnit?

 

The major problem is that I can't do certain actions - try and stay serious with me here lol - like opening things (bottles, jars, containers) anything where I have to grasp and pull or twist - door handles for example are a navigable nightmare because of the way the doors are hinged in my home it's difficult to use my left hand so at the moment I'm using my forearm a lot...

 

I can't write with a pen for more than 10 minutes and there's a load of stuff needs doing - revision notes for a start - and then there's a bunch of things that need fixing around the house that I just can't do one handed...

 

I'm just glad I haven't messed up both wrists/hands this time - cuz last time that happened things were almost impossible - so that's something to be grateful for....

[LancsLad]

Good, step by step, I have seen how debilitating these things can be.

 

Ability to use our hands freely is so important, I don't know how I would cope without the use of my left hand, and i'm not thinking of the same thing as you A-S Warrior on this one.

[darkshine]

Yeah, it's really annoying because it sounds so stupid - it isn't like I've broken it or something that sounds really serious - but its really frustrating yet incredible how much it gets in the way of doing really simple things... now I've shifted to the netbook I can at least type (as long as I don't do too much) but I don't really remember stuff as well for revision when I type it...

 

I'll have to sit and paint it as this rate (a brush is lighter, I don't have to hold a brush as firmly and there's barely any resistance against the paper, and I don't have to press as hard against the page) but practically - that isn't a great idea.... although if I have to use that idea I will.

 

Anyway..... I will see what happens regarding the appointment (who knows with these places, I could receive an appointment really quick or it could take forever) the important thing is to make the best of it because I really want to do something constructive instead of just sitting here moaning about pain.