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justine1

Toileting in school

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Hi all

 

Sorry to post here,I did post in education with no reply as yet so thought I would post here. Just wanted opinions really. Eli started full time school on Monday and today I had to fetch him at 12.30 as he had a toileting accident(number 2) they had cleaned him and changed him but still said he should go home,is this normal?

 

Before he started school the teachers came for a home visit during which I informed them that he has two brothers with ASD and that he had health issues at birth. I also told them he needs constant reminding about going to the toilet,at home he is fine though has only been fully toileted for about 6-7 mths now and does not like using a toilet outside the home.

 

I do worry its the start of things to come given its only the first week!

 

Forgot to add he is one of the youngest he just turned four mid July.

Edited by justine1

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I did and thats the problem I have. He was changed into the clothes I left with him in his bag...yet still asked to take him home. He has been to pre-school since last september and never had this problem...not even a wee! When the others have had a wee accident the school have never expected me to take them home on occasions where clothes were not provided they would put their PE kit on for the day. Don't see why he had to come home!

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Are they saying he was ill (diahorrea) ?

 

If not, I can't see why he had to go home.

 

However, I am impressed the school were willing to cope with "number 2's". When I have worked in primaery schools, we have always phoned the parents to come into school to change kids. We would help with wet pants, but only if the child could be talked through what to do, as we weren't allowed to physically help in anyway.

 

I think it would be different if a child had a statement, and toileting and changing were specified, as specific staff would be available.

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Thank caci. Thats what I wanted to know as I had read somewhere that they don't change number two's but I thought its ridiculous,sorry but my mum works with kids from birth to age 7(its abroad so they only start school age 7) and she has to change them regardless,they too have very strict child safety regulations etc but maybe its more to do with the fact parents there pay almost half their wages on childcare.

 

Anyway...no he did'nt have any illness and like I say it has not happened in the past.Its just that he is still young in my opinion.Sam was also one of the youngest when he started but he was on half days until the last school term. He has no diagnosis I just mentioned that I do have concerns but want to see how he fairs at school. The issue I have is until yesterday he did not even know where the toilet is,so for almost three days he did'nt even use the toilet. Another thing is when I fetched him they could not even say if he went to the toilet and did'nt make it or he had just not asked to go toilet. He is very quiet and shy and he does'nt like asking for things and thats why I did say he needs reminding.

 

Sorry maybe I am the one who is wrong,but at the end of the day I am also a full time student nurse and work so if I have to keep going to clean him its going to be a real issue!

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Hi Justine, I so no what you are going through as it takes me back to what happened with Glen over the years. You really need to get this sorted now while your son is still young. I'm surprised he's in full time education at only just over 4. Glen didn't start full time school until he was over 5.

 

As you have 2 other children with ASD I have to say I would not rule it out with your youngest as you did say he had health issues. I really think you should seek professional options, perhaps starting with either a paediatrician or GP. Also you need to talk again to the school, I would ask to speak to the head teacher and state clearly that your son does need regular reminders to go to the toilet and that you are not prepared to keep coming to the school to collect him etc, it is there job to keep him in school. This needs to be sorted now before it gets worse, and your son may not want to go to school due to anxiety about using the toilet.

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I thought children could not be discriminated against and that the school had to help with this

 

My son is nearly 5 and although in pants, he never says he needs to go to the toilet, he has to just be taken at regular intervals. He started school 2 weeks ago and so far no incidents, but he has not weed or done a number 2 the whole time he is there from 9 till 3.15

 

My understanding is that schools have to be understanding and realise that all children develop differently, as my child is SEN they can not discriminate

 

It may be worth checking with your LEA what their policy is as the school may not be following guidelines, a quick web search shows different councils have different policies

 

Hope this gets sorted

 

LisaKaz

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Is he at mainstream school? I had to take my son home a few times for this reason while he was in mainstream school, because they just didn't have the facilities to clean him well. But this was because my son was going for weeks, literally, without emptying his bowels and then would have a huge explosion, which just couldn't be cleaned up using mainstream facilities. That said, there were times when they did clean him up well enough and they just kept him there. The difference was the quantity. If you say they cleaned him up well enough, then I can't work out what function sending him home had, and it's not going to help him settle into full days at this stage.

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Thanks LisaKaz.

 

Thats what I thought,although Eli has no dx they do know he has two older brothers with ASD and even if that were not the case there are children in his class that are 9/10months older than him....how on earth can you treat them the same! He has only been trained for 6/7mths and still occasionaly wets the bed he also does'nt sleep very well at all.He was'nt happy about going into school today and I am very worried. At home he is so chatty and on the way to school once in class he stops talking,he has been like that since he started at a childminder age2.5.

 

I do think if he had this type of "accident" before then I would'nnt feel that bad but makes me wonder why its happened...is he anxious or he just unfamiliar with things or staff just not doing what they should be!

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Thanks Mannify. I do get why they may want him to go home to feel more comfortable,but when I fetched him he was playing outside(albeit alone while others ran about) He has no dx or statement I have put it off and decided to wait and see how he gets on at mainstream. He has been to varies settings since age 2.5 and most have expressed concern,well all but the pre-school he went to from last september,they just said he is quiet/shy. I worry that because I got two with ASD dx they may think I imagine things,despite the fact I have an eldest who is very much NT.

 

Thanks again for the replies.

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this is partially why we got a diagnosis and statement for Leo so that he could be looked after in a mainstream setting

 

I was told a school could not discriminate under SEN and would take care if need be

 

LisaKaz

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I am now really considering getting him assessed. Had concerns for ages but just tried not to think about it now he is at school it may be worth seeking advice,especially as my other two were dx'd in a different county and not sure how long the waiting list is over here.

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I think this maybe down to being in a Statement. But I would check with IPSEA.

There are lots of children [and adults] that need changing throughout the day.

And although a mainstream school may 'try' to say it isn't their job - that is what a Statement is for. And if he does have other needs he may not remain mainstream - it all depends on his cognitive ability really.

I would also think this is a disability discrimination issue too. But I would not bring that up unless absolutely necessary.

What you do need to do is to get the ball rolling with a Statement, and phone the LA EP and ask their advice. But I would do that after talking to IPSEA so that you know what the law says about these things.

 

Toilet problems are very common with children with an ASD. That can be about being toilet trained; or sensory problems and not being able to feel when they need the loo; or anxiety and holding it in or not using the school toilets all day. And these problems can resolve themselves, and surface again.

But sending him home every time is not an answer. I would take the position that you are not able to 'wait by the phone at home incase he has an accident'.

 

I can understand that typical primary staff would not want to deal with a soiled child. But if that is the case, then the school has to get in a member of staff specifically for that purpose - and as already mentioned, this should all be detailed in his Statement.

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I think we will soon be having this problem, my son was 4 in august and still not toilet trained, he wears pull ups to bed and still needs them in the day sometimes (depending if its a good day or bad) so i warned the school that he may need to wear pull ups. They said they only allow nappies if a child has special needs... my son does but not diagnosed yet so no statement. I hope this wont be a problem. She didnt explain weather he needed to have a statement of special needs though. We have been trying to toilet train for a long time... but progress is very slow!

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