The Other Centred (Selfless) Autistic

[Mike_GX101]

Perhaps just over the horizon there exists the Mother of all Autistic's sat under an apple tree nurturing all who come her way. A bite from one of her apples is the bite that promotes true selflessness and leaves the visitor with an everlasting taste of wholesomeness and goodness allowing them to return with a burning passion they never knew they had. Something good is coming soon and Christmas will never be the same again.

[dekra]

I do not believe in selflessness. Yes people appear to act selflessly but in almost all cases (except possibly running into a burning building on instinct etc) those selfless acts do infact give the supposed selfless person something. That might be a feeling of selfsatisfaction or they enjoy the acolades they recieve or they simply enjoy whatever activity it is there will be a benefit for them somewhere and that "selfless act" will actually fullfill a need or desire of the person undertaking the act. They may not even realise it and believe they are doing it for pure motives but even a pure motive is still a motive.

[karmadestiny]

I do not believe in selflessness. Yes people appear to act selflessly but in almost all cases (except possibly running into a burning building on instinct etc) those selfless acts do infact give the supposed selfless person something. That might be a feeling of selfsatisfaction or they enjoy the acolades they recieve or they simply enjoy whatever activity it is there will be a benefit for them somewhere and that "selfless act" will actually fullfill a need or desire of the person undertaking the act. They may not even realise it and believe they are doing it for pure motives but even a pure motive is still a motive.

 

Wow dekra, purley and simply put!...I've been struggling to understand the nature of selflessness and found the same, that there is always something for us to gain in the end...It is hard to even fathom what true selflessness encompasses...each time I think I've got near, I find myself worlds away;)...Can one ever be trully selfless???

[indiscreet]

"Can one ever be trully selfless???"

 

If you risk your life (or serious injury) to help someone else then I would say "yes" to that question. Otherwise I think it's often a case of wanting to 'feel good'.

[A-S warrior]

Perhaps just over the horizon there exists the Mother of all Autistic's sat under an apple tree nurturing all who come her way. A bite from one of her apples is the bite that promotes true selflessness and leaves the visitor with an everlasting taste of wholesomeness and goodness allowing them to return with a burning passion they never knew they had. Something good is coming soon and Christmas will never be the same again.

 

please eleberate,

 

The insperation for this came from?

[In Exile]

I do not believe in selflessness. Yes people appear to act selflessly but in almost all cases (except possibly running into a burning building on instinct etc) those selfless acts do infact give the supposed selfless person something. That might be a feeling of selfsatisfaction or they enjoy the acolades they recieve or they simply enjoy whatever activity it is there will be a benefit for them somewhere and that "selfless act" will actually fullfill a need or desire of the person undertaking the act. They may not even realise it and believe they are doing it for pure motives but even a pure motive is still a motive.

 

+1.

 

Have you seen the movie "The Ninth Configuration"? This subject is one of its central themes.

[Sa Skimrande]

Perhaps true selflessness is self destruction, as it is also in my experience that those that call themselves selfless aren't for in the act of being selfless they are being selfish as no one will be selfless if it means they will by being selfless they destroy themselves. But if it is taken that self destruction is a selfish act, then selflessness can't exist.

 

As humans our goal is to acquire, we all acquire as we pass through life and if it is not material things it is knowledge and even with what might apparently look selfless, it is not, because the selfless person is acquiring knowledge.

 

But if one was to inquire into who might be that mother of all autistics, perhaps it is we might discover that the mother is in fact a child untouched by society and it's expectations. But it is society that one never listens to children because they are well, children and adults rule the world.

Edited October 21, 2012 by Sa Skimrande

[Shnoing]

I do not believe in selflessness. Yes people appear to act selflessly but in almost all cases (except possibly running into a burning building on instinct etc) those selfless acts do infact give the supposed selfless person something. That might be a feeling of selfsatisfaction or they enjoy the acolades they recieve or they simply enjoy whatever activity it is there will be a benefit for them somewhere and that "selfless act" will actually fullfill a need or desire of the person undertaking the act. They may not even realise it and believe they are doing it for pure motives but even a pure motive is still a motive.

I cannot agree with that definition. A "feeling of selfsatisfaction" isn't a real advantage, I think it's just an adaption to life in social groups: you imagine you get something out of it, even if you really don't.

A real advantage would result in more offspring, but how do you do that?

[dekra]

I disagree, a feeling whilst not tanglible does exist. If feelings weren't advantageous or disadvantageous then there would be no benefit from feeling good and no problem feeling depressed. But in actual fact feelings and emotions drive the world even for ASD sufferers who may struggle to understand and relate to emotions or to understand the emotions of others that doesn't preclude them from having them. Oh if only feelings and emotions didn't matter then there would be so many less mental health issues.

[A-S warrior]

Edited October 21, 2012 by A-S warrior

[Shnoing]

I disagree, a feeling whilst not tanglible does exist. If feelings weren't advantageous or disadvantageous then there would be no benefit from feeling good and no problem feeling depressed. But in actual fact feelings and emotions drive the world ...

Emotions developped not later than the stone age (when humans were prey). A feeling of self-satisfaction wouldn't have helped you when your problem is escaping a tiger. A feeling of "something's wrong" (= fear) would have.

 

What I might concede is "mirrored feelings", i.e. if someone near you is happy, you might feel happy, too, especially if you did something to make her/him happy. But I don't see a real advantage there. There might be still that tiger ...

[dekra]

Fear is an emotion too. As I already said emotions may or may not have tangible or what you call "real" advantage but is feeling good not advantage in itself? Yes the less subtle emotions like fear are tied to survival but so are the more altruistic feelings. Self survival can be promoted by the survival of the greater community and similarly the happiness of a community can benefit the group and the individual. But that is digressing, you may not agree with my original arguement and if you don't understand what I mean by an intangiable benefit I am unable to counter your opinion but I still stand by my original stance but I respect you disagree also.

[Mike_GX101]

Emotions developped not later than the stone age (when humans were prey). A feeling of self-satisfaction wouldn't have helped you when your problem is escaping a tiger. A feeling of "something's wrong" (= fear) would have.

 

What I might concede is "mirrored feelings", i.e. if someone near you is happy, you might feel happy, too, especially if you did something to make her/him happy. But I don't see a real advantage there. There might be still that tiger ...

 

But then as the pack of tribal humans ran for their lives one man stopped, picked up a stone with a sharpened edge he noticed lying on the ground, and stood up to the fearful tiger. Risking everything he plunged the stone deep into the heart of the tiger and the pack of humans lived on.

 

Such people are called "hero's" and they can be male or female and such people really do exist. Are you guys telling me that such people do not deserve some kind of reward for their bravery? Our hero risked his own life for the survival of the pack - isn't that worth some kind of honour?

Edited October 28, 2012 by Mike_GX101

[Shnoing]

... Our hero risked his own life for the survival of the pack - isn't that worth some kind of honour?

I think it's not an advantage PER SE. He/she should get some, afterwards, by common consent. So there seems to exist some selflessness - because our "hero" couldn't speculate on surviving.

[Mike_GX101]

That's right Shnoing - he put his own life on the line to save the rest of tribe.

 

Heroes of this nature really do exist and yet if you walked down any street it would be impossible to identify the heroes-in-waiting from the crowds of people there. And that's the nature of true selflessness - it often crops up when one least expects it. It is quite an unexpected phenomena.

 

The opposite is true with selfishness though - one has to choose to be selfish as it often goes against their inner principles of what's right. Take the film Scrudge as a perfect story of selfishness - it's a tale of one mean but very rich boss who fires people at Christmas time and fails to take into account the problems his staff face in difficult times. He then goes through a series of 'lessons' cast upon him until he learns the error of his ways and he winds up dumping his selfishness and becoming the man he initially chose not to be through the temptations of greed.

[Shnoing]

That's the one based on Charles Dickens' story?

[Sa Skimrande]

One thing that perturbs me somewhat in British society of today is the willingness to label the wrong people as heroes, often people who already court the public image whereas I understand those who have turned out to be heroes most were nobodies that just acted in a selfless way at the time. And so the action of being selfless I believe it is one of those things that happens naturally from time to time with most and it usually happens when through whatever situation one does not think, but just acts as to think then engages the political aspect of the mind as to what we may get out of the action to include self preservation. To think further on selfless actions involving danger, one could in effect question the hero as to their sense of self preservation, in that in helping others they could in fact have been suffering self destructive tendencies.

[Shnoing]

..., in that in helping others they could in fact have been suffering self destructive tendencies.

Well, yes, that seems to be part of the definition.