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ALC

Asperger's syndrome dropped from psychiatrists' diagnostic manual

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ALC   

"Aspergers will soon be dropped from the psychiatrists' Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM) of Mental Disorders — the guide for diagnosing mental conditions used throughout the country (USA) and throughout the world. Symptoms for the condition will now be lumped in with the newly added 'autistic spectrum disorder'."

 

What does everyone think about this? Does it make a difference to you and your diagnosis? Do you think there is need for a seperate 'aspergers' type diagnosis??

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justine1   

Asperger's is not a mental condition or a mental disorder.

 

I agree.

 

I do have mixed feelings,as I believe its not just the case of removing Aspergers its about lumping everyone with ASD together.In a way this could be positive for those on the higher end of the spectrum having the same access to services those on the other end have but how would those on the lower end feel being treated the same as those who they may view as being better off.

 

When Sam was dx'd in 2009 his official dx was ASD,I don't know whether they knew about this change approaching or not but the paediatrician told me that by putting Aspergers he would not be able to get the right help(especially at school) she also said she could'nt be 100% certain he does have aspergers but he does meet the criteria for an ASD dx. The same happened almost a year later with Dan though they said to me he is most likely to be HFA and it says that alongside his ASD dx.

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LancsLad   

A first reaction is it will make no difference to me at an individual level because I am not the sort of person who needs to communicate this aspect of my life with other people, rather I am an independent soul.

 

For others I can see how this change might cause problems. My parents for example struggled to come to terms with what Asperger's might be all about 'Autistic Spectrum Disorder' might simply confuse things for them even more because does it mean i now have something different, more or lesss complex etc...

 

As a retired teacher I can see these sorts of issues within professional sectors, whilst my partner a SENCO will have no issues whatsoever and would welcome the change I can think of many secondary teachers who might have been familiar with one or two kids with Asperger's who passed through their hands, now faced with a broader statement I feel their response would be "Ok but what do I need to do". At times experience counts for something even if it is just a label because within that experience we have beliefs and at times those beliefs are positive. I just hope people who felt positive by AS are not left feeling some of their positive experiences have evaporated a bit.

 

At another level I am not sure how this will pan out in respect to recources and diagnosis availability. With a changing of definition lines will have to be redrawn, they exist at present make no mistakes over that. I suspect rather than those lines being more about inclusivity I suspect economic pressures will mean they get moved further towards the classic end of this spectrum. In a way that might be a good thing in the long term because I believe not having a diagnosis for the vast majority of my life has benefited me, but I am only speaking for myself there.

 

Just a few thoughts.

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trekster   

I'm in favour of the changes especially as folk will start to realise that Aspergers is still autism.

i wish they would be clearer what 'higher functioning' means though as the term is really misleading.

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The DSM criteria is formulated for the American medical insurance market of which there are about four dominant medical insurers in the US, where true to form insurers do their best to dodge pay outs where possible and the criteria in the DSM is for the purposes of Insurance companies to make more money not anything wholesome as so many think and quite frankly what are British psychiatrists doing using it ? Are they not capable of deriving their own thought or are they always dependent on America ?

 

But if certain politicians get their way in this country we will be subject to medical insurance as there are already US medical insurance companies in consultation with the government, then we may find the DSM is wholly applicable to us as well.

Edited by Sa Skimrande

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The DSM-V criteria should (theoretically) not exclude people originally diagnosed with Asperger's, and the review committee have tried to make it clear that they want to be more inclusive (I have heard a number of them explain this directly in response to concerns).

 

How it will pan out in reality remains to be seen, of course. I regard my dx of AS as very much part of the autistic spectrum, and in this sense I can accept it. For me it offers an opportunity for AS and high-functioning autism to be reconciled. Some will not agree, and I suspect AS will still be use for many years to come. It might be more problematic in the US though, where terminology determines whether the medical insurance covers you (or not, as the case may be) ...

 

Although the ICD-10 is more applicable to Europe, the DSM is still routinely used, hence the concerns re. the 2013 revisions.

Edited by l'anima semplicetta

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in terms of helping kids and people get the right support, its a great idea.

 

in terms of naming and such like, I hate it, I would rather be called Asperger's any day of the week rather than 'Autistic'

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Of course people do understand don't they, because the Americans have redefined the terms if you now say you are autistic other than aspergic you will be called a fake, because in most people's minds an autistic is not anything like an aspergic person, they will picture the worst what media portrays as autistic where an aspergic is very different and so you will be doubted and most likely called all manner of derogatory things because you are not what the public picture of an autistic is.

 

From what I understand what is coming is dark days for aspies, as if it was not hard enough already.

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Of course people do understand don't they, because the Americans have redefined the terms if you now say you are autistic other than aspergic you will be called a fake, because in most people's minds an autistic is not anything like an aspergic person, they will picture the worst what media portrays as autistic where an aspergic is very different and so you will be doubted and most likely called all manner of derogatory things because you are not what the public picture of an autistic is.

 

From what I understand what is coming is dark days for aspies, as if it was not hard enough already.

 

 

Amen.

 

 

However, it's in us all to change.

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I think it will be different for each person............I am not sure how it will affect youngsters, but as an adult with an AS/ASD dx (that's how it is written on my dx) it will only make a difference if I tell anyone. I know that when I meet anyone new, it is unlikely that they will immediately pick up on my problem/challenge or whatever politically correct term you care to use. Some of my friends have been disbeleiving, with the attitude that "oh, everyone has that to a certain extent"! So I am intending to only tell people when it is relevant.......job applications/interviews for example, and then I'd let them read my dx report. My point is that if no-one beleives me now, then they are never going to beleive I'm "Autistic" as under the new criteria.........their image is likely to be of the media portrayed stereotype, and I don't fit that image.

However, in formal situations (the workplace etc) it is more likeley to be taken seriously, and there would also be the chance to explain exactly how I'm affected..........which means that overall it is unlikely to affect me personally very much, and i suspect there will be many others in this position.

I'm in favour of the changes especially as folk will start to realise that Aspergers is still autism.

i wish they would be clearer what 'higher functioning' means though as the term is really misleading.

Overall though I agree with Trekster here........especially re "higher functioning".

Edited by watergirl

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And that is the problem as one has to declare such things to prospective employers, asperger's one can get away with it through it being known as the geek syndrome, useful in some occupations but say you are autistic as per the current guidelines and all manner of ideas come to mind and the aforementioned public perception of what autistic is.

 

And let's not forget here jobs are scarce in the UK at the moment and any sympathy that was for people with PDD's is waning fast and my understanding is if one is not obviously autistic one is gong to come in for a very hard time in the future where one will be what I described before, a fake if one is not the public perception.

 

My situation I have got to get a job simple as that but I want a job because I am fed up with living like this, but the lovely job centre has already told me they can't help me through the belief given age and diagnosi I am pretty much unemployable in this present employment climate, but still I have to go through the motions of finding a job whilst I am under attack from a government that believes me to be a malingerer for not having a job as to remember they are going on the report made by a paid organisation brought in to re assess sickness and disability, not the BMA whose doctors have said people are not fit to work, in effect the government have negated the opinion of the medical profession and chose a computer programme to assess people's ability to work.

 

But what many of the public do not know is on average 73 people are dying per week as a direct and indirect result of the stress this paid organisation is causing to the sick and disabled and that figure comes from the DWP report into the situation itself, so they know what they are doing but the name of the game is get people of benefits one way or the other.

 

http://blacktrianglecampaign.org/2012/10/04/10600-sick-disabled-people-died-last-year-within-six-weeks-of-their-claim-ending/

 

But I want a job, what I fear is not getting a job due to diagnosi which one is legally obliged to declare and given my past work record pre diagnosis where employers have said to me if they knew I was like I was, they would never have employed me, so I know I have certain disagreeable issues in work of which I can only attribute to Asperger's Syndrome now to be relabelled Autistic.

 

One is supposed to be positive about the future, but that is wearing very thin in society of today where one is not getting answers to important issues and one is under attack from one's own country daily.

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trekster   

If you wish people to make 'reasonable adjustments' based on your disability/ies then yes you do have to declare it.

However i haven't seen it written anywhere that it is a legal requirement.

 

Also wishing i could get a job with the qualifications i have but still little experience.

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My situation I have got to get a job simple as that but I want a job because I am fed up with living like this, but the lovely job centre has already told me they can't help me through the belief given age and diagnosi I am pretty much unemployable in this present employment climate, but still I have to go through the motions of finding a job whilst I am under attack from a government that believes me to be a malingerer for not having a job as to remember they are going on the report made by a paid organisation brought in to re assess sickness and disability, not the BMA whose doctors have said people are not fit to work, in effect the government have negated the opinion of the medical profession and chose a computer programme to assess people's ability to work.

 

Until recently I was in the same situation. I was seeing the health person at thejob centre after the mainstream advisor had realised I have problems. I too am now out-scourced on the "work programme", but when I got my dx I was advised that it was worth applying for ESA instead of JSA. I was doubtful at first, but I have now done that, but only after I had a panic attack at the job centre and realised I had to do it. Although I have not had the assessment yet, they have agreed to my claim initially. This switch means that I now do not have to sign at the job centre (which was a nightmare for me) and I am not expected to apply for a set number of (totally inappropriate) jobs per week. Instead I will be able to get good support from the job centre with the ESA advisor, and also the sub contractor at the "work programme" who is very helpful. I don't know reallistically what my chances of getting a job are, but I feel I'm getting help, and overall I'm quite positive.

I have no problem with telling anyone that I'm AS/ASD, and I don't think it would be too much of a problem if I had to specifically say "I'm Autistic" (which, let's be honest, I am,.... AS is autism) The reason it would not be a problem for me is that if I talk or write to anyone I explain fully, and the fact that they are reading, or listening to, intelligent thinking is surely enough to indicate that I am actually very capable in the right environment, so that must help give a positive view of autism? And I can back it up with a lengthy medical report too, so surely that is enough?.

I also have another condition, which I don't particularly want to discuss on here, but suffice to say it is one that some people find hard to deal with, and I have had a huge amount of respect regarding this aspect of my life, and I know for a fact that it is because I have talked to people about it in a straight-forward, matter of fact way when neccessary........I could easily have tried to gloss over it, and I have done so a couple of times, and it wasn't a good idea.........but I have found that honesty is respected, hence I will have no trouble telling people "I have Autism" if the "new rules"situation demands it.......and then I'll back it up with facts, as I have done with my other issue. One of the things it says on my dx is that I "give too much detail when explaining anything"........I think I can use that to my advantage, and give employers a proper insight into my potential.

With regard to the DWP, I have found that a gentle approach works best, remaining calm and asking lots of questions, getting them on my side, not alienating them, as I have seen other people do when I have been in the job centre. But this is me I'm talking about............it may be different for other people.

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Hi,

 

I agree with trekster that you only need to declare AS/ASD if you want adjustments to be made - I'm pretty sure you are under no obligation to disclose it.

 

Also, you won't need to say you are autistic, as I suspect it will be more a case of saying you are diagnosed as being on the autistic spectrum, which does sound nicer (I think).

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I think it will be different for each person............I am not sure how it will affect youngsters, but as an adult with an AS/ASD dx (that's how it is written on my dx) it will only make a difference if I tell anyone. I know that when I meet anyone new, it is unlikely that they will immediately pick up on my problem/challenge or whatever politically correct term you care to use. Some of my friends have been disbeleiving, with the attitude that "oh, everyone has that to a certain extent"! So I am intending to only tell people when it is relevant.......job applications/interviews for example, and then I'd let them read my dx report. My point is that if no-one beleives me now, then they are never going to beleive I'm "Autistic" as under the new criteria.........their image is likely to be of the media portrayed stereotype, and I don't fit that image.

However, in formal situations (the workplace etc) it is more likeley to be taken seriously, and there would also be the chance to explain exactly how I'm affected..........which means that overall it is unlikely to affect me personally very much, and i suspect there will be many others in this position.

 

Overall though I agree with Trekster here........especially re "higher functioning".

 

I am on ESA now and have to do the occasional interviews with the disabilities advisor at the joke centre and I have got another one coming up on the twentieth of this month where I am going to say, find me a job, because I understand if one is not in a part time job at least by April next year, the new benefit will not work for those not working and it's tough now, I genuinely fear what is coming up.

 

But it was the disabilities advisor that told me with AS it is highly unlikely I will be employed and now I have another one to add to the mess, Klinefelter's syndrome which accounts for my problems with getting up in the morning, easily fatigued and lack of upper body strength, rapid mood swings and emotional states that can be embarrassing to say the least, it was called depression before, but now I know it is in reality ; hormone imbalance of which I am not yet being treated for and I understand it is a hit and miss process, before any stability can be achieved.

 

Anyone ever wondered about my performance on this website, the moods how they shift.

 

Of course I could not declare this stuff and live in the anxiety of being sacked and it is in the past I was so anxious in work, believing the boss was looking for a reason to sack me, I used to put up with all sorts of things I should not have put up with including work place bullying. But in this day and age get sacked and you are sunk and so the anxiety again.

 

But I wan't to get back to work as the benefits lifestyle is a slow death and of course us benefit scroungers are a hunted species.

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What is happening next April that makes it different for people on ESA? I'm not aware of anything.

The whole point of being on ESA is to take the pressure off the job search.......I felt I was considered a scrounger to a certain extent until they realised I genuinely had problems, but I know now that I am not seen that way, and will get help to find the right work. As my advisor says, there is no point in getting the wrong work and repeating the cycle of failing, followed by the spiral downwards of self confidence etc. I intend promoting myself on my CV and at interview positively by nailing my colours to the mast and declaring my AS/ASD up front, and point out all the positive attributes, such as time keeping, loyalty, attention to detail, etc etc. There are employers out there who need people with those sort of qualities, so why try and hide them?

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What happens in April is a new welfare reforms act comes into place where the aim is to cut spending on benefits and what we get will be assessed, DLA in particular which is to be replaced by PIP where it will not only be a paper exercise to get, but one will have to satisfy a medical panel in person as well, also council tax and housing benefit will be affected. The name of the game is not to help people but to reduce the benefits bill and encourage people to go back to work, abject poverty will be one of those motivators, that or suicide and the latter has risen three fold in the last two years not to forget the average of 73 people dying per week due to the stress caused by the work capability assessments, which includes suicide- being hated by your country and victimised by your government is not conducive to getting well.

 

I was ignorant of it all until recently when a close friend who works for disabilities organisations warned me to wake up, my situation is not good and from their understanding given they know my status and income, I personally will come out of this worse off and it's tough now so I have fear aplenty and the motivation to find work, whether I am fit to work is immaterial and if I don't find a job the government will save money and I will be worse off and so I will deteriorate they now that, that is why I got told to wake up.

 

But as to what I can offer an employer is attention to detail and doing stuff others won't do, I have some skills over the NT, but I cannot handle the cold, people and strenuous exercise and my time keeping always was a problem in the past even in the military where being late for anything has serious consequences and I have a short attention span. It's not just AS with me, there is also KS to deal with and where many are clueless as to AS beyond it's obvious Autistic connotation, try mentioning KS, most have never even heard of it and so where no knowledge exists the automatic conclusion is the bearer is a malingerer- been there on that before I knew this thing had a name. But we are generally passive, we put up with stuff even when it's not right.

 

But a friend with Turners Syndrome (X0 karyotype - I am the exact opposite) I might have to learn from in that she is in full employment with the council and seems bullet proof, as many are laid off, she is still working, I don't know if she is using here situation but if she is to retain employment I might have to, to get employment as the name of the game these days is use what you have to get to where you want for there is no room for shrinking violets and personal pride anymore, they are ideals from the past, we very much have to use what is available to use to succeed over others as it is a dog eat dog world out there.

 

But anyone on benefits get advice now on the changes set for April 2013 and that includes parents of.

 

 

I have an excellent CV, I am multi- skilled with experience in many environments, even the college that tried to teach me how to write a CV were impressed with what I already had, but although I thought it to be true in regards to the interpersonal stuff that is on there, I now know that is not true as employers in the past have pulled me on that when they found although I can be sometimes, it is not all the time which I now understand is due to fluctuations in mood and emotion, I am very heavily impacted by my environment and treatment.

 

As to what I can do, I can repair stuff and I can make stuff, but I need variety- new challenges as my abilities are very much to do with the desire for knowledge, as soon as something becomes mundane I lose interest and become difficult.

 

Where I fit in to the workplace given my honest drawbacks, I have no idea anymore, but honest I am as to be anything else I just don't have the ability to defraud anyone and why I have never ventured near sales.

Edited by Sa Skimrande

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Nesf   

One thing I'm trying to get answers to and can't seem to get any concrete ones is what will happen to my diagnosis of AS when the changes come into force. The specialist who diagnosed me based his diagnosis on the DSM-IV, not the ICD, and that is what's on the report. Will I keep my diagnosis? Will I have to be reassessed for ASD? Will it be reclassified as ASD without further assessment? The idea that I may have to go through the whole procedure again is daunting, though I'm sure I'll meet the new criteria for ASD.

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trekster   

Hi,

 

I agree with trekster that you only need to declare AS/ASD if you want adjustments to be made - I'm pretty sure you are under no obligation to disclose it.

 

Also, you won't need to say you are autistic, as I suspect it will be more a case of saying you are diagnosed as being on the autistic spectrum, which does sound nicer (I think).

 

Thanks for your support.

 

i dont understand why people will feel they are going to loose their diagnosis because of a change of name for new cases of autism? This has never been on the cards loosing a diagnosis, so unless you recover from your ASD the diagnosis stays.

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And that is the problem as one has to declare such things to prospective employers, asperger's one can get away with it through it being known as the geek syndrome, useful in some occupations but say you are autistic as per the current guidelines and all manner of ideas come to mind and the aforementioned public perception of what autistic is.

 

And let's not forget here jobs are scarce in the UK at the moment and any sympathy that was for people with PDD's is waning fast and my understanding is if one is not obviously autistic one is gong to come in for a very hard time in the future where one will be what I described before, a fake if one is not the public perception.

 

My situation I have got to get a job simple as that but I want a job because I am fed up with living like this, but the lovely job centre has already told me they can't help me through the belief given age and diagnosi I am pretty much unemployable in this present employment climate, but still I have to go through the motions of finding a job whilst I am under attack from a government that believes me to be a malingerer for not having a job as to remember they are going on the report made by a paid organisation brought in to re assess sickness and disability, not the BMA whose doctors have said people are not fit to work, in effect the government have negated the opinion of the medical profession and chose a computer programme to assess people's ability to work.

 

But what many of the public do not know is on average 73 people are dying per week as a direct and indirect result of the stress this paid organisation is causing to the sick and disabled and that figure comes from the DWP report into the situation itself, so they know what they are doing but the name of the game is get people of benefits one way or the other.

 

http://blacktriangle...r-claim-ending/

 

But I want a job, what I fear is not getting a job due to diagnosi which one is legally obliged to declare and given my past work record pre diagnosis where employers have said to me if they knew I was like I was, they would never have employed me, so I know I have certain disagreeable issues in work of which I can only attribute to Asperger's Syndrome now to be relabelled Autistic.

 

One is supposed to be positive about the future, but that is wearing very thin in society of today where one is not getting answers to important issues and one is under attack from one's own country daily.

 

you took the words out my mouth my dear.

 

Unfortunately I'm in the opposite situation and have been on several occasions. I have been employed, mentioned explicitly that I have Asperger's and then everything seems ok cause I settle in good and something goes bad, they don't know how to handle it and then I walk out my job. Happened twice now, just because on the face of it, they think 'oh he's intelligent' and then bypass everything else... which has resulted in some odd situations...

 

Recently Through Jobcentre, I got on with Remploy who helped me find this Marks & Spencers job, and luckily with frequent discussions and the like between me and managers, everything is fine and we have had no major problems at all. I would try to get help from remploy if you can.

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I do not think its an issue, its only just going to be called ASD not AS. I cover ASD as a wide range of autism to be honest.

 

I also am on ESA but on support group, not even had an interview for it either. I do not see the point in them changing Income support/Incapacity to ESA when its going to change over to universal credit

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One thing I'm trying to get answers to and can't seem to get any concrete ones is what will happen to my diagnosis of AS when the changes come into force. The specialist who diagnosed me based his diagnosis on the DSM-IV, not the ICD, and that is what's on the report. Will I keep my diagnosis? Will I have to be reassessed for ASD? Will it be reclassified as ASD without further assessment? The idea that I may have to go through the whole procedure again is daunting, though I'm sure I'll meet the new criteria for ASD.

 

Right I went around and asked people about this. I do not have diagnosis of AS or HFA i have diagnosis of autism, and because people were extremely worried i asked some professionals and what basically means is the people who are diagnosed with Aspergers, PDD-NOS wont remove your diagnosis- but instead of calling it Aspergers or PDD-NOS it be called 'Autism Spectrum Disorder'. Its just like a long time ago autism used to be called kanners but not in our days. i find it annoying because they categorise each person on the spectrum into highs, lows, middles but even if they are low functioning they may not actually show it and someone mistakes them for being high functioning but they excel in certain subjects.

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Nesf   

Right I went around and asked people about this. I do not have diagnosis of AS or HFA i have diagnosis of autism, and because people were extremely worried i asked some professionals and what basically means is the people who are diagnosed with Aspergers, PDD-NOS wont remove your diagnosis- but instead of calling it Aspergers or PDD-NOS it be called 'Autism Spectrum Disorder'. Its just like a long time ago autism used to be called kanners but not in our days. i find it annoying because they categorise each person on the spectrum into highs, lows, middles but even if they are low functioning they may not actually show it and someone mistakes them for being high functioning but they excel in certain subjects.

 

Thanks for your clarification. I agree with you on the labelling and classifications. Everyone is different and a person might be "high functioning" in one area and "low funcioning" in another, it's not always so clear cut.

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Special_talent 123 is correct - no one will need to be reassessed (and I suspect Asperger's will still be used by professionals for a long time yet), with everything becoming part of the autistic spectrum or ASD/ASC. High-functioning autism has never been in the DSM but it is routinely used by professionals and in research.

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What is happening next April that makes it different for people on ESA? I'm not aware of anything.

The whole point of being on ESA is to take the pressure off the job search.......I felt I was considered a scrounger to a certain extent until they realised I genuinely had problems, but I know now that I am not seen that way, and will get help to find the right work. As my advisor says, there is no point in getting the wrong work and repeating the cycle of failing, followed by the spiral downwards of self confidence etc. I intend promoting myself on my CV and at interview positively by nailing my colours to the mast and declaring my AS/ASD up front, and point out all the positive attributes, such as time keeping, loyalty, attention to detail, etc etc. There are employers out there who need people with those sort of qualities, so why try and hide them?

What is happening next April that makes it different for people on ESA? I'm not aware of anything.

The whole point of being on ESA is to take the pressure off the job search.......I felt I was considered a scrounger to a certain extent until they realised I genuinely had problems, but I know now that I am not seen that way, and will get help to find the right work. As my advisor says, there is no point in getting the wrong work and repeating the cycle of failing, followed by the spiral downwards of self confidence etc. I intend promoting myself on my CV and at interview positively by nailing my colours to the mast and declaring my AS/ASD up front, and point out all the positive attributes, such as time keeping, loyalty, attention to detail, etc etc. There are employers out there who need people with those sort of qualities, so why try and hide them?

 

I think Sa maybe referring to ESA WRAG rather than ESA Support Group. It doesnt affect the ones on Support Group but I am aware that it will soon change from ESA to Universal Credit i am unsure when

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