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matzoball

Bit of reality check for all of us.

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There was a recent decision to add a few new moderators on the forum due to other moderators simply not having the time to be as active as they would like.

 

This was a good decision, however it didn't work out as planned as some moderators were a bit too excited about their newfound ability to help make the forum run better, and rubbed a lot of forum posters the wrong way.

 

While not well thought out, all of the intentions were coming from a good place.

 

A lot of disruption came from a reposting of an old thread about forum rules. Some new moderators while within their rights to act on them were a bit over zealous, and a little heavy handed in enforcing them with little notice.

 

This again rubbed people the wrong way. However again, this all came from a good place.

 

The transition has not been a smooth one, and things could have been done better.

 

However people quitting the forum because of it is really, really shortsighted in my opinion. Before anyone gets up in arms - MY opinion.

 

I have been on this forum a long time, and have seen people come and go, and have gotten to know more than a few of you.

 

It has been a great source of support through some pretty tough times for all of us.

 

So to quit because things are a bit difficult right now is ruddy stupid. Sorry, but it's how I feel.

 

Rules are there to help us, but rules can change. Revising them or enforcing them on a case by case basis may be a thing to do. But whether it happens or not - we shouldn't stop talking to each other.

 

Change management is key here. ASD people mostly don't deal with change well. Of course this is subjective to the individual - but consider the reaction to what has happened recently by ALL OF US.

 

The new moderators perhaps should have introduced themselves as moderators when the change happened, and opened some dialogue with the forum members so it wasn't such an extreme shock.

 

That didn't happen - and now there is a massive fallout figuratively and literally.

 

We ALL need to take a step back, breathe, and agree on a positive solution - and move on from this.

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It's a real shame that members choose to leave but at the same time, everyone has their own reasons for doing so and quite possibly some of them have nothing at all to do with this forum.

 

I see this forum as a melting pot of ideas, views, personalities, experiences and opinions. Inevitably there are going to be disagreements, discord, viewpoints which converge, people who 'gel' together and people who don't, happiness and sadness, stories of difficult experiences and stories of success and triumph and of hopes, despair and faith.

 

I see life is cyclical and this forum is in many ways cyclical. I've been here for just under 2 years and many of the people who were here when I joined are still here now but many no longer are. I have a busy life and although I come on most days, I have a limited amount of time to browse topics and post comments. Most likely, a lot of members are similar to me. I see this forum as part of my life but a small but important part and I am grateful for the advice and the insight that other's give. Others perhaps invest more of themselves in this forum than I do and therefore have a deeper connection with the topics and the posters. Changes in the tone of the forum maybe affect them more because of this.

 

I'm glad of the posts which challenge me and make me question how I think and perceive things. It can be difficult to read some of the threads where there is a lot of argument but again, I think that learning to be able to cope with other's points of view or taking part in disagreement is an important part of life too. I was in a debating team at the age of 12 and do you know? I think it is something that every child with AS should consider doing...to be able to learn to see things from another angle or at least learn to appreciate that others have a different opinion.

 

I wish those who choose to leave the forum the best in their lives. It is their choice and it must be respected.

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I wish those who choose to leave the forum the best in their lives. It is their choice and it must be respected.

 

True.

 

However all of the members who have left in the past few days have cited what I have mentioned as the reason for leaving, hence why I feel there needs to be a bit of an open dialogue so that things like this don't happen again.

 

People can leave if they want to, but they shouldn't feel like they are being driven from the forum as several now ex members have said they are.

 

If we don't learn from this, then it's bound to happen again. We need to get back to this being somewhere where differences are respected and or appreciated, and where conflicts are mediated when they need to be.

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I find it interesting that people are saying 'driven away'. Granted, I think some were, but one was a moderator who stated they left because the people they called friends, and those they looked up, to were leaving. Just a few short days ago the same person said that they were excited to be a moderator so that they could carry on helping people etc etc.

 

So general question here... which is it? Wanting to help people and take on the role of moderator, or jumping ship because something happens that you don't like? I don't get it...

 

Sorry.

 

 

I have AS, yes. I am outspoken at times, yes. I stick up for people that deserve it, yes. I'm all of those things and more, some of which you will like, some of which you might not, but all that said I'm truly saddened to see what has happened on here the past few days because, as previously mentioned, I feel that this should be a haven for people like us, who have little to no support elsewhere.

 

 

Right now this doesn't feel much like a haven...

 

:/

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True.

 

However all of the members who have left in the past few days have cited what I have mentioned as the reason for leaving, hence why I feel there needs to be a bit of an open dialogue so that things like this don't happen again.

 

People can leave if they want to, but they shouldn't feel like they are being driven from the forum as several now ex members have said they are.

 

If we don't learn from this, then it's bound to happen again. We need to get back to this being somewhere where differences are respected and or appreciated, and where conflicts are mediated when they need to be.

I agree to a point with what you are saying but tbh I think that what has happened in the last few days has been the catalyst and not fully the cause for people choosing to leave. Yes, there has been disagreement and I do agree that there has been heavy-handedness in the way that some recent posts have been moderated but I also think that those who have chosen to leave are intelligent and savvy enough to know that these problems can be worked through (perhaps not to the degree that some would wish as Mossgrove was very explicit in that the rules would not change). I believe that the rules should be modified but even if they are not in the immediate future (or at all), I think that there normally has been a good deal of leeway in what people are able to write. However, I don't think it should be simply a case of 'Here's your Moderator's hat - go Moderate'when it comes to appointing new moderators - as with any 'supervisory' role there ought to be a 'settling in' period and perhaps some behind-the-scenes advice and guidance before a moderator 'goes live'. Having been a supervisor and attracting flak there maybe should even be some supervision for those new to the role.

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I have said before that I worry some times about the number of non-members viewing this forum at any one time. It may be true that most people would never think to view this forum with it being quite specialised in the larger context but then you forget about all the search engine bots and caching that goes on every day.

 

I can therefore see the reason for certain levels of moderation to be necessary. But other forums make some areas screened so only members can view them. I use Aspies Central partly for that very reason but also because it is a place adult aspies can debate things much more relevant to their age groups. But if this is never going to happen here and people are going to start leaving because their needs aren't being met as a result then would it not be worth having a link to forums such as Aspies Central on the homepage so that they can continue to have a platform of support relevant to them?

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Lyndalou - i totally agree.

 

There should have been a settling in period - and perhaps that will be taken on board for when new moderators are appointed in the future. I really hope so.

 

Having managed people on the spectrum(while also being on the spectrum myself), I know too well that not everyone will be happy when change happens no matter how it is introduced.

 

There are some ules that are in place that I can see why they need to stay as is. But there needs to be clear active signposting to other sites and organisations that can help when this forum can't.

 

Having dealt with people who self harm and have suicidal tendencies there is a duty of care to steer them in the right direction and sign off safely. You can't just say 'no this breaks forum rules', lock and delete the thread. You pm the op, you direct them to an external site, explain why you are locking and or deleting the thread or post then do it.

 

So to clarify - yes keep that rule in place, but change the process of how you deal with that rule.

 

We need to fix this problem, and try and get past it.

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I can therefore see the reason for certain levels of moderation to be necessary. But other forums make some areas screened so only members can view them. I use Aspies Central partly for that very reason but also because it is a place adult aspies can debate things much more relevant to their age groups. But if this is never going to happen here and people are going to start leaving because their needs aren't being met as a result then would it not be worth having a link to forums such as Aspies Central on the homepage so that they can continue to have a platform of support relevant to them?

 

 

Having managed people on the spectrum(while also being on the spectrum myself), I know too well that not everyone will be happy when change happens no matter how it is introduced.

 

There are some ules that are in place that I can see why they need to stay as is. But there needs to be clear active signposting to other sites and organisations that can help when this forum can't.

 

Having dealt with people who self harm and have suicidal tendencies there is a duty of care to steer them in the right direction and sign off safely. You can't just say 'no this breaks forum rules', lock and delete the thread. You pm the op, you direct them to an external site, explain why you are locking and or deleting the thread or post then do it.

 

 

Yes, I think signposting would be a very good idea, especially when people are desperate or don't really know where to turn to if they are seriously contemplating harming themselves or others. This rule is in one way explicit (as it is written in the rules) but in another way ambiguous (how it is dealt with in practice and differently from person to person). This leaves room for the type of questions which have been raised.

 

Also, as has been proposed many times, a private area where content completely unsuitable to younger users should be considered as an addition to the forum as I see it.

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I agree Matzoball. I have been on here for just over three years now. I to have seen many members come and go,and no offense to those leaving but such people did not announce it..or when they did they stated it would be a break but after a year of no posts you can safely assume they are not returning. I noticed recently two members posted they were leaving and then within days or even hours they had made a comeback...so what was the point of announcing?(just an opinion!)

 

Personally I have found those group to have gone downhill for about 18months now,there are certain people who left all around the same time who really added something special to this group and I feel its not been the same since.

 

I rarely post and in fact a few months ago one (relatively)new member thought I to was a new member as I had not been seen on here much. I really think majority of the people come here to hear what the want,and yes it can be the case on many forums but I find here its worse like what is the point of giving an alternative suggestion or opinion when its clear its going to be pushed aside by the majority of posters. Just because someone puts on many intellectual posts and opinions does not mean they know it all or that there answer is the right one to follow. Best way I can describe it right now is sheep,and I hate to think that but its how I feel.

 

There was definatley an issue with regards to moderators,there was nothing wrong with how the group was monitored and while I accept that some moderators do not appear on many posts they are still there "policing" the forum. I will always come on here as it was the very first forum I joined when finding out about Sam's ASD, so I guess it means something to me. I also seem members who have given me great advice and have been going through similar experiences,as a mum its great to see that their child is doing as well as my son. We are making the journey together which has always been my fear...going it alone.

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I have never fully invested myself in the forum, partly due to time constraints but also because of the way I was treated when I joined the forum by certain (then) members. As Oakers is saying, I found the forum informative but I didn't feel particularly accepted or like this was a safe place to come to. I considered leaving because of the contemptuous attitude of some of the posters I encountered.

 

One poster in particular used to pick apart my posts like he was dissecting it on an autopsy table. I finally had enough and reported him to admin and by this time he was regularly 'having a go' at new members who often posted a couple of things and definitely were to my mind 'driven away'. I have read many of this person's posts and a lot of what he said made a lot of sense and I have respect for his opinions but I felt that by virtue of the fact he had been on these boards for a number of years he thought he could say whatever he liked and he'd get away with it. He chose to leave after he had been advised to tone it down and didn't like the 'changes' which were taking place with new people joining.

 

Other long-term posters on one thread I can remember participated in a long sarcastic 'slagging' session which one of the regularly participating moderators (at the time) also contributed to. I was very unimpressed and quite angry. Again, it felt like there was one rule for older members who could indulge in laughing up their sleeves at newer, less well-informed and vulnerable members and another rule for those newer, often confused and angry members who required support and not contempt.

 

Personally, I think change can be good. Yes, it needs to be well managed and people should never feel that they HAVE to leave. However, certain attitudes should not be condoned. Sometimes, this forum has felt like a big clique or personality contest where the stronger personalities win out. This should be more of a 'community' where more vulnerable members are cared for and the stronger members provide a firm foundation.

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I have never fully invested myself in the forum, partly due to time constraints but also because of the way I was treated when I joined the forum by certain (then) members. As Oakers is saying, I found the forum informative but I didn't feel particularly accepted or like this was a safe place to come to. I considered leaving because of the contemptuous attitude of some of the posters I encountered.

 

One poster in particular used to pick apart my posts like he was dissecting it on an autopsy table. I finally had enough and reported him to admin and by this time he was regularly 'having a go' at new members who often posted a couple of things and definitely were to my mind 'driven away'. I have read many of this person's posts and a lot of what he said made a lot of sense and I have respect for his opinions but I felt that by virtue of the fact he had been on these boards for a number of years he thought he could say whatever he liked and he'd get away with it. He chose to leave after he had been advised to tone it down and didn't like the 'changes' which were taking place with new people joining.

 

Other long-term posters on one thread I can remember participated in a long sarcastic 'slagging' session which one of the regularly participating moderators (at the time) also contributed to. I was very unimpressed and quite angry. Again, it felt like there was one rule for older members who could indulge in laughing up their sleeves at newer, less well-informed and vulnerable members and another rule for those newer, often confused and angry members who required support and not contempt.

 

Personally, I think change can be good. Yes, it needs to be well managed and people should never feel that they HAVE to leave. However, certain attitudes should not be condoned. Sometimes, this forum has felt like a big clique or personality contest where the stronger personalities win out. This should be more of a 'community' where more vulnerable members are cared for and the stronger members provide a firm foundation.

 

In answer to the bolded section;

 

Wherever you go on the internet and off it you will always find the same structure of people, they are in everything sometimes it's blatant and other times subtle and what it amounts is a power trip, people massaging their egos by want of familiarity and very much a case of leaders and followers, the same that happens in gangs which should tell you what's going on is immature, the people engaged are in fact insecure and they need each other to be what they are, which is nothing without their support.

 

There is something else apparent particularly on the internet with these gangs of old hands is that they have done their searching and come to their conclusions and when a newbie comes forth with the same old questions the gang ring leaders rip in and abuse the newbie saying such as do a web search and find out for yourself as we have done, to which I reply as it has happened recently elsewhere; what is the point of you existing on this topic specific forum if you are not prepared to help those that ask is, it you enjoy the ignorance of others, does it make you feel good to hold arcane knowledge and is that your power or is this only a social platform where you can communicate with similar old hands and matters not pertaining to, if in which case leave here and go and find a chat programme to shoot the breeze. The forum concerned the mood changed, it went quieter where it seems people now come on to read the archives and not contribute and without member participation a forum dies. I can only guess what is happening for perhaps others feel the same as I when I go to log in to that place and only that place and that feeling is fear.

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Well, that was a complete waste of time wasn't it, a well thought out and considered reply posted to display a fatal error and the content of what I had written lost, why is this website so erratic ?

 

 

 

 

Edited to add ;

 

 

Oh it appears it's not lost, what's going on with this place ?

Edited by Sa Skimrande

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I have been away from the computer for a couple of days and wondered if I returned to the right forum. It seems to be in complete disarray at the moment as key members have given notice to leave. What’s going on guys? Have you really, really thought this through? You guys befriended me from the start and I have just kinda started to get to get to know you through your posting style etc and kept this forum alive. There are some others on here that I would like to call my friends too.

 

But come on guys, at least reconsider your decisions. If you have really, really…really thought this through and are leaving purely for other reasons, personal etc…then so be it but that’s three personal friends lost in an instant. You guys have really given good advice since my time on here. You got to be getting out of here for the right reasons rather than a knee-jerk reaction to bad press.

 

I agree that there should be at least some structure in any forum but also the freedom to speak out. I accept that perhaps some people feel they are unable to do this so what is the point of a forum otherwise? But I'm not one for office politics and much of this is none of my business. But I am personally very saddened, and rather cheesed off that for me at least, the first 3 people to welcome me onto this forum have decided to jack it all in.

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Lyndalou, I agree, this place can feel very cliquey at times. I see posts / threads, including mine, pretty much being ignored at times because they're not from those in a select group. I would have thought that if you want to hold private conversations you'd do it in private, rather than conduct your business on a forum.

 

I came here because I'd pretty much exhausted my options in regards to finding anything particularly new online about a diagnosis of AS that literally came out of the blue for me. I thought that being on a forum with people going through the same things would be more helpful than listening to people who think they know. I have bought a couple of books but sadly, haven't brought myself to pick them up yet as I'm having trouble motivating myself to read a proper book given things I'm dealing with right now.

 

I thought that people would be more accepting of us new people who come here to find a safe place to express themselves and learn more about their diagnosis, and other people who share that very same, or similar, diagnosis with them. We're on the outs enough as it is, let's not make the forum the same as 'real life'.

Edited by oakers

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How about we stop focussing on cliques, and concentrate on making this place what we want it to be?

 

 

How about people be allowed to express themselves and explain how it feels from their perspective, instead of trying to tell them what to do? You may not like the fact that people are discussing something, but you don't have to read or reply to it.

 

 

The place will only be able to move forward once people have started to get this out of their systems.

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How about people be allowed to express themselves and explain how it feels from their perspective, instead of trying to tell them what to do? You may not like the fact that people are discussing something, but you don't have to read or reply to it.

 

 

The place will only be able to move forward once people have started to get this out of their systems.

 

People should be allowed to have their own opinions, make their own spelling mistakes and explain things from their own perspective unless of course there is racism, homophobia or there is a personal attack on another person.

 

but you don't have to read or reply to it. I'm with you all the way on this one oakers. :)

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Oakers - this is my thread. I started it so people could discuss what is going on and get it out of their systems. I am not telling people what to do, I am making a suggestion. If they still want to talk about it as you seem to, then by all means have at it.

 

Please don't be rude to me, I have been a member here for a long time and those that do actually know me know I don't tell people what to do because quite frankly it's not my place to.

 

You are being a bit aggressive.

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Oakers - this is my thread. I started it so people could discuss what is going on and get it out of their systems. I am not telling people what to do, I am making a suggestion. If they still want to talk about it as you seem to, then by all means have at it.

 

Please don't be rude to me, I have been a member here for a long time and those that do actually know me know I don't tell people what to do because quite frankly it's not my place to.

 

You are being a bit aggressive.

 

How exactly am I being aggressive or rude?!

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What you said to me, came off as antagonistic. If you didn't mean it to be then I apologise for taking it the wrong way. However just as you feel I shouldn't be telling people what to do(which I honestly wasn't), I felt that you were in turn telling me what to do and assuming my reasoning behind what you thought I was doing. That rubbed me the wrong way.

 

I think this is going a bit wrong - can we both forget it and go back to discussing what I was originally talking about please?

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but you don't have to read or reply to it.

 

The place will only be able to move forward once people have started to get this out of their systems.

 

 

Exactly, if you don't like the subject/thread...don't read it.

 

I'm sorry to come in on this Matzoball as it's your thread but this whole thing is getting completely out of hand and I'm getting a bit a**ed by it now as I'm sure you are. I don't see the point of all this personal griping and apportioning of blame. Why can't everybody chill and move on?

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I think everyones emotions are still a bit raw over what's been happening. I am a great believer in open and frank discussion, but I also believe there needs to be a point where a line is drawn under it and we start getting more positive and supportive again. Otherwise it becomes counter productive and things stagnate again. That's just my opinion, not going to force it down anyones throat! If people still need to vent it's not my place to tell them they can't.

 

Suze - sorry! I'm not arguing with anyone - just a bit of crossed wires I think(I hope!).

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Sorry for also going off topic in your thread Matzoball, I was not aiming nothing towards you and just wanted to say I also value your posts. :)

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Sorry for also going off topic in your thread Matzoball, I was not aiming nothing towards you and just wanted to say I also value your posts. :)

 

No worries - wasn't taking it personally!

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Hi Matzoball, having just read through that bit again, I really don't think Oakers was making a point directly to you, to me at least, it read as though she was quoting your words in order to build on them, not to attack you at all....but in agreement. I hope that's the case anyway. EVERYBODY who has responded to this thread, has made some brilliant points, and i agree with you all. The bickering and taking things the wrong way has GOT to stop! Mike_GX101 should agree with me, I did it to him a few days ago! Why was i so defensive over a comment he made which turned out to be innocent? I don't know and i apologized and i'll do it again now...(Sorry Mike!)...we all need to take a step back and realize that we all have more in common than we realize. We all are here for similar reasons, we all want to help others when we feel able, we all seek the wisdom and advice from others when we need it, and we want a place where we fit in....and we can be emotional....defensive....maybe because we're so used to being spat on by the world! We don't have to have that here.

 

Lets agree to each personally welcome new members, to respond to people's threads if no one else has as a matter of courtesy so that they don't feel excluded, and to just do little bits each, here and there, whenever we can, to improve the mood and experience of this forum.

 

Hugs to all....I think we all need one. :)

Edited by Merry

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Hi Matzoball, having just read through that bit again, I really don't think Oakers was making a point directly to you, to me at least, it read as though she was quoting your words in order to build on them, not to attack you at all....but in agreement. I hope that's the case anyway. EVERYBODY who has responded to this thread, has made some brilliant points, and i agree with you all. The bickering and taking things the wrong way has GOT to stop! Mike_GX101 should agree with me, I did it to him a few days ago! Why was i so defensive over a comment he made which turned out to be innocent? I don't know and i apologized and i'll do it again now...(Sorry Mike!)...we all need to take a step back and realize that we all have more in common than we realize. We all are here for similar reasons, we all want to help others when we feel able, we all seek the wisdom and advice from others when we need it, and we want a place where we fit in....and we can be emotional....defensive....maybe because we're so used to being spat on by the world! We don't have to have that here.

 

Lets agree to each personally welcome new members, to respond to people's threads if no one else has as a matter of courtesy so that they don't feel excluded, and to just do little bits each, here and there, whenever we can, to improve the mood and experience of this forum.

 

Hugs to all....I think we all need one. :)

 

That's an excellent post, Well here's my contribution even if I'm a man! (IE man comment regarding the hugs) :rolleyes::) ((((((((((hugs)))))))))))

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Oakers - this is my thread. I started it so people could discuss what is going on and get it out of their systems. I am not telling people what to do, I am making a suggestion. If they still want to talk about it as you seem to, then by all means have at it.

 

Please don't be rude to me, I have been a member here for a long time and those that do actually know me know I don't tell people what to do because quite frankly it's not my place to.

 

You are being a bit aggressive.

 

Is it your thread in that you own it ?

 

And if you own it are you suggesting that those who reply in what honesty they can muster have no right to say what they do on your

thread because you don't like it ?

 

People post threads on here to invite comment, if you do not wish to read what you don't like then the answer is simple, don't post.

 

But whilst you have posted to invite comment you should be able to accept all comments as they are, what you take on board is up to you, but this isn't your forum.

 

And further to I did not find Oakers comment aggressive, I found it constructive.

 

And furthermore, comment has already been made about the apparent attitude of those that have been members of websites a long time, if you are wise you will not use that fact to throw in the face of others, because being a member of anything for a long time does not make one right.

 

ASD is crossed wires, but they can be unravelled if people are given the grace and space to work it out amongst themselves.

 

 

 

 

Edited due to letters missing off keyboard, which requires a more positive press on where the key pad used to be to initiate a letter online.

Edited by Sa Skimrande

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Sa Skimrande - this issue was actually resolved.

 

However I will address what you have said.

 

I mentioned that I started the thread to remind people that I was the original poster, and the point of the original post. Not to lay ownership to it. The only people that own anything on here are the people who actually own the forum.

 

Although I misread Oakers post, and subsequently apologised for the misunderstanding (which you have failed to mention) - at the time I felt I needed to clarify my feelings behind what I thought Oakers was talking about. Again - it was cleared up.

 

I mentioned that I had been a member of the forum for a long time simply to illustrate that just by evidence alone (since a lot of people go into past posts etc) it was not in my nature to tell people what to do, unless invited to give advice. Not to pull some conceived rank. I never have and never will, and resent that implication. I hate cliques, and cronyism. I was bullied for the majority of my life so I definitely would never dream of making anyone feel like I was made to feel. I know there is a lot of issue with a thread where a bunch of older members and moderators engaged in the behaviour you are talking about - I wasn't one of them. So I ask you please not to lump me in with that.

 

ASD is crossed wires and you are very right in that given time people can unravel them. However I will take the time to address issues if I feel I am being addressed directly as you have addressed me. I hope you can see I am doing that with the greatest of respect, and not in an antagonistic way.

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Just to clarify: when I made comments about older members, I was not pointing the finger at anyone currently using the forum. Also, I think it is simply human nature to band together with 'like minds' and unfortunately, as we see every day in our everyday lives, people can bicker and squabble, be sarcastic, make judgements. If we pretend that Survival of the Fittest doesn't exist I think we also deny a fundamental part that is within every single one of us. What we need to do is rise above our base human nature and be more evolved.

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