No longer learning at school.

[nysnanna]

Some advice needed please. My Grandson aged 13 is eventually having a statutory assessment and the mainstream school he attends have said that he is no longer making any progress at all and the gap between him and his peers is growing even wider. He receives over 15 hours support a week but is not staying in lessons and is not learning. Are the LA likely to suggest another mainstream (all the others in our area are much larger) or do you think they will name a SEN school. The only SEN school that may be appropriate have told us that they have no places and are not expecting to have any. After some insistence they have agreed that we can visit but what is likely to happen if mainstream are unable to meet his needs and SEN school is full? We are also going to visit an independent school that is out of County that sounds brilliant but is about an hours drive away.

If we get a statement what should we be asking for and what are the LA likely to suggest if SEN school has no places?

Also I have read on this forum about freedom of information requests. What is this? Who would I ask for this and for what reason? What do I ask for and what is it likely to provide me with. I do not want to overlook anything at all. If the LA do not give our grandson a statement or it is not a good one, we will be appealing and as we are not in a position to pay for legal representation I want to be prepared.

Many thanks in advance

Teresa

[Suze]

Hi Teresa..........what has been suggested so far by the proffesionals working with him.Have they given any indication of what educational setting they think he needs ?.........if it we me I would be looking at a mainstream high school with autism resource/unit attached.My son attended one with a 28hr statement.He was supported in all lessons initially , given 1;1 in the unit and did,nt attend registration , or break times etc.He stayed within the unit.My sons areas of difficulty were learning (dyslexia ), and havoc (dinnertimes registration , walking on busy corridoors)........and socialising around others.So using the unit helped.His key worker helped him gain more independence and by the time he left he was attending some lessons on his own, mentoring other SEN kids and he even managed to go to the school prom !

I think you need to look at your grandsons areas of difficulty , every child is different.What do you think he will need from an educational setting ?I would definitely look for somewhere that has staff trained directly in Autism.You are definitely right to look at as many different schools as possible...........best wishes suzex

[Sally44]

The Statement has to be a true reflection of need, and must identify each and every need. That is by professionals carrying out standardised assessments on your Grandson.

 

You can ask the LA who they have asked from speech and language, educational psychology and occupational therapy to assess your son in school. Then write to them and ask them to carry out standardised assessments. These are assessments that give age related scores from which you can measure progress.

 

If his mainstream school have said they cannot meet his needs and that he is not making progress, and the LA SEN school [which is probably for moderate learning disabilities and not appropriate anyway], is also full, then you have the golden ticket to seek a placement at an ASD specific independent school that has a suitable peer group.

 

You are looking for a school where the children are similar from a cognitive, social and emotional point of view and where all the children have an ASD, and where there are speech therapists and occupational therapists employed on site.

 

The problem with mainstream autism units is that they often are used like a base, and the children are fed across to mainstream for mainstream lessons. If your child is not currently able to access that due to the environment, learning approaches etc, then being in the unit is not going to help. If he is in a unit full time, then it is likely that unit is for more severely autistic children, which your son isn't if he is mainstream. So it sounds more like he needs an independent ASD specific school that goes up to age 19.

 

An hours drive away is not ideal, but if that is the only option then that is the school you should name as the parental choice of school. The LA must agree to this placement unless they can prove it is not a suitable school, or if they say it is not a good use of their resources [ie. costs more than a school they have]. But whatever school the LA may say they have, it must be able to meet your grandson's needs, and currently mainstream is failing. So a Tribunal Panel would not be happy with another mainstream placement unless the LA could demonstrate that it was able to meet his needs, whatever those needs are.

 

For example if he needs to be taught in small classes with a similar peer group of no more than 8 pupils, then no mainstream school can deliver that as all the classes are bigger and he is probably the only child in the class with an ASD.

 

Have you asked your LA for their list of maintained, non-maintained, approved and independent secondary schools for children with an ASD? You may find another suitable school that your LA is already using.

 

If the hours drive to/from school is too much, then you maybe able to argue successfully that he needs weekly boarding and coming home at the weekends.

[Sally44]

The Statement is basically a cut and paste job of reports. So part 2 of the Statement contains all of the child's needs, and part 3 details provision/support/therapy to meet each of those needs. Part 2 and 3 add up to describe the kind of placement the child needs, and the parents name a school which can do that.

 

A Freedom of Information Act search is something you should do after you have the Statement, and when you have lodged an appeal for the Statement - because it is very likely you will have to appeal the Statement because local authorities do not write them so they are legally binding on purpose.

 

So once the appeal is lodged and you have an appeal date, you would write to the school, the LA [and name every department within the LA that has had any dealings with your grandchild], also write to the hospital for the speech therapist, occupational therapist, paediatrician, clinical psychologist, CAHMS etc who have seen your son over the years. These maybe in different hospitals, under different PCTs, so you may need to write to more than one PCT.

 

There is a template letter I can find for you if and when you get to that stage, because you have to word it correctly so that they are legally required to give you a copy of every paper and electronic communication, file note etc they have on your son. Often you find very useful things such as the EP and LA discussing your grandson and agreeing he is not mainstream material [whilst arguing with you that he is]. We found alot of useful information which we then included as part of our appeal to SEND.

[Sally44]

You also need to download, or ask for a copy of the SEN Code of Practice. This is the link http://media.education.gov.uk/assets/files/pdf/s/sen%20code%20of%20practice.pdf

 

This document details what should happen at each stage of SEN. You will need to read chapters 7 and 8.

[nysnanna]

Thanks for the advice. I have downloaded a copy of the SEN code of practice and am now busy reading chapters 7 and 8.

Does anyone know how I go about finding an independent EP and when would be the best time to ask for an assessment? We are told we will hear if LA are going to write a statement on Feb 4th. The only thing that appears to have happened during the assessment period is the school have been asked for another report and the LA EP observed him in part of a lesson and had a brief chat with him. She also came and spoke to us at home. As he sees the paediatrician very occasionally and the CAMHS input has consisted of one meeting last October I am wondering how they will have managed to assess all of his educational needs.

We have very little money but have decided that we will get the money together (if we can) for an EP assessment as this is probably the best one to go for. What do others think, is an EP the right way to go? I spoke to school Senco last week and she told me that her report very clearly states that he is no longer learning anything at school and is not progressing at all so something clearly has to change.

Teresa

[SharonS]

Hi Teresa

 

I would recommend giving SOS!SEN a call, this is a charity who give independent advice. They'll be able to advise on best timings for EP report and they should also be able to give you a name of an independent EP.

 

www.sossen.org.uk

 

I think it is normally recommended that you hold off on spending on independent reports until you are appealing, so that the reports are up to date for tribunal. So it would be a good idea to line up an independent EP for around the time you expect the final statement - 8 weeks after the proposed statement. If it turns out that they are not going to write a statement, then you'd want to book EP for as soon as you can ready for that appeal. You don't need to have EP report at the time you put in your appeal, you can say that will be sent in due course and you can also send in your own further comments on the EP report at that time too.

 

Sharon

 

[SharonS]

I do have the names of some independent EPs that I know others have used, but I think they are all based in south-east or London. Let me know if these would be of any use.

 

Cost wise, expect to pay about £700 - although some may be twice this.

 

Sharon

[Sally44]

This is one website http://www.achippp.org.uk/

And this is another http://www.bps.org.uk/psychology-public/find-psychologist/find-psychologist

 

You can ask the Educational Psychologist to carry out "standardised assessments".

 

In your post you say the EP 'observed' him. although observations are useful, standardised assessments give age or percentile scores for each skill set. This identifies where the strengths and weaknesses are, and also gives you a record of where your grandson is NOW, and from that you can measure if he is making progress.

 

However LA EP's often don't do them as standard, because when they identify a need - as you will have read in the CoP - they have to include that in the Statement in part 2 and then quantify and specify provision for part 3. And quantifying and specifying is something else they also don't tend to do for the very same reason. It is totally unfair, but as the current system stands, the LA does not get any fines for not complying with the CoP. The only recourse is via an Educational Tribunal where the Panel will issue their Decision letter which will word the Statement [if you have asked them to - which is advisable], and they will Order the LA to fund the Statement. But they cannot do anything about the LA not having provided or met a Statement up to that point.

 

So I would advise that you ask the LA which EP, Speech Therapist, Occupational Therapist, Paediatrician and Psychiatrist they are writing to for information regarding the Statement. Then write to those professionals. Ask the EP, SALT and OT to carry out standardised assessments. Also ask the EP to assess his emotional literacy. And if you think he has any specific learning difficulty, as the EP to assess for that too eg. Dyslexia, problems with short term or working memory. Ask the SALT to assess all aspects of his expressive and receptive language skills, as well as his social communication and play skills. Ask the OT to assess for Sensory processing Disorder and Dyspraxia. Ask the Paediatrician and Psychiatrist to detail what his needs and difficulties are so that they are included in his Statement, and ask them to detail what kind and level of support in terms of hours of support, staffing arrangements, approaches and strategies should be used in school.

 

Hopefully that should get some things into the Statement. But the Proposed and then Final Statement probably will not be legally binding [simply because LAs never write them as they should do]. So you will need to keep on at the LA to quantify and specify in the Statement. This happens during the Proposed Statement stage. After a few weeks the LA will have to finalise the Statement eventhough you may still not be happy with it. The LA has 26 weeks from start to finish. However if the finalised Statement is still not legally binding, or still does contain every need, or does not quantify and specify provision - then you MUST lodge your appeal within the timescale. Negotiations can then continue right up to the day of the Appeal.

 

Regarding school placement, you name the one that you think can meet his needs. It is then the LA's responsibility to agree that that school can meet his needs, or to say that it is not a good use of their resources [which basically means they have a mainstream maintained or special school that they think can also meet his needs]. However that school MUST be able to meet his needs. It must be a suitable peer group cognitively, socially, emotionally and have similar diagnoses/needs.

 

The best time to get an independent EP report is about 2 weeks before the final submissions deadline for the Appeal. There is no point getting it beforehand because the LA will just ignore it, because they can, until you get to the Tribunal anyway. And if your report is over 6 months old by that time, the LA can send in their own EP again to re-assess and could undermine everything your independent EP has said.

 

It is worth looking around and deciding who you would use if needed, and let them know asap when you lodge the appeal so that they can slot you into their diary.

 

If you are asking for an ASD specific school you may need an EP, SALT and OT report and you may need them to attend as expert witnesses. The cost can be anything from £800-1500 ie. £1500 for the report and £800 to attend the tribunal on the day. Very expensive I know. But if your grandson is out of school and is not making progress then that is the best time to go to an appeal.

Edited January 13, 2013 by Sally44

[Sally44]

So, as an example. My son scores around 100 on most subtests of cognitive ability, where 100 is average. On working and short term memory he scored 72, which is a specific learning difficulty.

 

Yet his reading age at age 10 was 4.9 years.

 

He was diagnosed with severe dyslexia.

 

In school he was working at around 1C for literacy and numeracy.

 

So, if I had only the Key Stage levels of 1C at age 10, the school/LA could have said he was low IQ and suitable for a special school for children with moderate learning disabilities.

 

But because I had him assessed independently twice and on both occasions over a two year period he was around average, that meant that he was NOT suitable for a La mainstream school. He also was not suitable for an LA mainstream school because he was not making progress. So he needed an ASD specific school. Which is what we finally got at our last tribunal.

 

Regarding speech and language. The NHS SALT said that my son was 'advanced' in some areas. However my independent SALT demonstrated how that level was achieved using autistic abilities to rote learn and remember. My son can listen to a story and repeat it back verbatim. Yet he cannot read or write. On other skills he was around average. On a specific sub-test, which is part of the CELF 4 Standardised Assessment for "Forumulated Sentences" , my son scored 1, where 3 is classed as severe and 8 is average.

 

Formulated Sentences is a test where the child is given a word and asked to put together a sentence using that word. Eg. the word "through", the child might say "the man when through the door.". My son really struggled with this. And this assessment is one that gives the best indication of how a child will perform in a mainstream classroom, where they are given information and told to 'formulate' sentences or stories etc. My son really struggles with this because he has problems with word meanings; problems with short term and working memory; is easily distracted etc and therefore needs his work to be very structured and supported for him to complete these types of tasks. So mainstream learning is not for him. Yet he is intelligent, and very good at some things. Which is often what you find with those on the spectrum.

 

Hope that helps.