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Is there any information out there to assist people on the spectrum with things like marriage?

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Hi Mike

 

I'm not sure if there is a great lot and imo there is an awful lot of negative information on the internet about people in relationships with partners who have AS. Reading some of this information, often written by 'experts' in the field has made me feel quite upset as it often 'blames' the AS partner for any problems in the relationship so I try not to read too much of it any more. I'm not saying that I don't agree that some AS/NT relationships are abusive or destructive (as any relationship can be) but what I can't accept is that this is the unchallenged 'template' of what a relationship on the spectrum is like.

 

However, my husband bought and read '22 Things a Woman with Aspergers wants her Partner to know' by Rudy Simone and it was very easy to read...nothing too heavy. This is the 'companion' book to '22 Things a Woman must know if she loves and Man with Aspergers' which I haven't read but has decent reviews.

 

After reading a lot of stuff written by 'experts' about how bad Aspergers parents can be too, it was nice the other day to read comments by Tony Attwood saying that we mums can do a great job and make very good parents...

 

Are you asking from a personal standpoint? My husband has a lot of 'traits' and he says this himself too. This probably means that we can rub along together easier than I was with a completely 'typical' man. We are a bit unconventional in that both of us take trips away from the home on our own and often we sit in silence in the evening doing our own thing! He is willing (and happy) to do some of the 'woman' stuff like cooking and changing nappies (not so happy B) ) while I do bits of DIY and take junk to the dump. When we met, we agreed that our relationship would only work if we were totally honest with each other and kept talking to each other so even though at times it's excruciatingly hard and we hear uncomfortable things, this so far has worked for us.

 

Lynda :)

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http://www.asd-forum...st/#entry342321 ?

 

Eta: keep clear of anything with FAAAS in it.

 

FAAAS - Yep! that's the type of thing I was referring to... :(

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Thanks for the positive replies. Yes I had a look at the FAAAS website - it contains a lot of articles which I'll have a look at later.

 

I've been thinking a lot about marriage as of late and coming up with all sorts of scenarios and "what would happen if's" given things are not so clear when it comes to things like marriage between an NT partner and an AS partner in the UK.

 

Marriages come in all shapes and sizes and I suppose I was wondering what would happen if two people were married and one person was then diagnosed with asperger's. Would they be allowed to stay together or would they be forced to divorce by an external agent if say for example it is 'deemed' inappropriate? Who gets to make a judgement like that? What if the said couple love one another very much and have been together for years? What if they have had children? What happens to the NT partner??

 

This is the bit I'm not at all sure about and worry about to be honest. I want to get married one day; I hope to find love out there. Being on the spectrum is one thing and maybe makes it harder but I want to be supported and not stopped from making the most of my life. If I find love and get married I want to know I will be supported and likewise if my partner is NT I would want them to be supported too.

Edited by Mike_GX101

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Why would someone with autism be deemed inappropriate to be married? They are people, they have a right to be married, just as disabled people do. There are plenty of NT people probably unfit to be married but are allowed to be married (eg. domestic abusers) without risk of external agents. There maybe relatives or professionals who worry about an individuals ability to cope with marriage, or any level of relationship, but thats different and understandable - they may be vulnerable and at risk of abuse etc. If there professionals out there trying to steer autistic people away from relationships, or actively trying to break them up then that's abuse and they should be reported.

 

Each person with autism will have a set of traits that may, or may not, make relationships difficult - this doesn't mean they should be blamed for relationships failing, plenty of NT-NT relationships fail so this nothing specific to autistic people. Having autism does mean having to work at relationships more, and an NT partner would have to help and support them more than an NT person. Starting and maintaining relationships are skills for autistic people to develop, therefore they need to try at them - not be forced into isolation because they may not cope in a relationship.

 

Relationships are challenging, and expose weaknesses and strengths on both sides - its important to be aware of these and try and make the best of things, getting positive support from wherever you can. Don't accept negative support/advice.

 

About 10 years ago I was told by a support worker that I 'desired the one thing I couldn't have', by trying to find a girlfriend. This crushed me, and I ended up convincing myself he was right - so later when I tried I found it really difficult to get passed that barrier. Some professionals need to be aware they can say/do things that can really affect autistic people for many years to come, or the rest of their lives.

 

I'm now engaged to my partner, who may be on the spectrum, and whilst we both have our difficulties, we are trying to work things through and keep our relationship alive and kicking. We've both had bad marriages before and been divorced, so we know how not to do things - now we are learning how to do things right.

Edited by positive_about

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Why would someone with autism be deemed inappropriate to be married? They are people, they have a right to be married, just as disabled people do. There are plenty of NT people probably unfit to be married but are allowed to be married (eg. domestic abusers) without risk of external agents. There maybe relatives or professionals who worry about an individuals ability to cope with marriage, or any level of relationship, but thats different and understandable - they may be vulnerable and at risk of abuse etc. If there professionals out there trying to steer autistic people away from relationships, or actively trying to break them up then that's abuse and they should be reported.

 

Each person with autism will have a set of traits that may, or may not, make relationships difficult - this doesn't mean they should be blamed for relationships failing, plenty of NT-NT relationships fail so this nothing specific to autistic people. Having autism does mean having to work at relationships more, and an NT partner would have to help and support them more than an NT person. Starting and maintaining relationships are skills for autistic people to develop, therefore they need to try at them - not be forced into isolation because they may not cope in a relationship.

 

Relationships are challenging, and expose weaknesses and strengths on both sides - its important to be aware of these and try and make the best of things, getting positive support from wherever you can. Don't accept negative support/advice.

 

About 10 years ago I was told by a support worker that I 'desired the one thing I couldn't have', by trying to find a girlfriend. This crushed me, and I ended up convincing myself he was right - so later when I tried I found it really difficult to get passed that barrier. Some professionals need to be aware they can say/do things that can really affect autistic people for many years to come, or the rest of their lives.

 

I'm now engaged to my partner, who may be on the spectrum, and whilst we both have our difficulties, we are trying to work things through and keep our relationship alive and kicking. We've both had bad marriages before and been divorced, so we know how not to do things - now we are learning how to do things right.

Well stated Positive_about. I would put to the back of your mind what anyone else would think 'looking into' your relationship and just concentrate on finding a partner who is suitable for you and complements you. I was never married before meeting my husband but I had a few relationships which were not very healthy and I often settled for people who I had little (or nothing) in common with just because they wanted to be with me. Think about all the positive things you can bring to a relationship so that you can go into a 'date' situation as an attractive and interesting person. If you go into the situation just thinking that you are meeting someone for a bite to eat and (hopefully) some good conversation instead of pinning all your hopes on the person you are meeting being a potential 'The One' then you will be less disappointed if they don't want a second date. The best way to attract the wrong type of person is to project that you don't like yourself or have a very poor opinion of what you can contribute to a relationship; ie. if you have a date where you constantly apologise for your 'faults' then the person will either run a mile or believe you are someone they could walk all over!

 

Relationships are not easy but if they are right then they are worth fighting for. You can't predict how things will turn out and what kind of a relationship you will have at the beginning and crises can happen at any time and this has a major impact on how people relate to each other. Children too can cause a huge strain between couples because then you bring other human beings with all their needs and personalities and disagreements about parenting into the mix.

 

My husband and I met through telephone dating. It's not for everyone but any variation on the theme I think is worth considering. It's a lot easier to 'cut to the chase', past all the peacocking and usual starting points like when you meet someone completely from scratch.

 

:)

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My husband and I met through telephone dating. It's not for everyone but any variation on the theme I think is worth considering. It's a lot easier to 'cut to the chase', past all the peacocking and usual starting points like when you meet someone completely from scratch.

 

:)

 

I agree that dating services make it much easier to get to know someone who's compatible, and who might understand you better.

I've tried lonely hearts and dating websites, not with any luck but I was struggling with myself then so didn't 'sell' myself well enough.

 

My fiance and I met via a social anxiety website, we just got chatting online and clicked. You have to take a chance and get to know someone, whichever way suits you best.

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We met at university, and had (have) very similar interests (both on the spectrum).

 

There seems to be a lot of social pressure on NT partners of a NT-AS relationship to quit, so this may pose a problem.

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I totally agree with you Positive_about. What is not so clear is what consequences the NT partner would face if the said marriage was (following the AS diagnosis) then deemed inappropriate in my example above. Would the NT partner be threatened with jail if they continued to remain in the relationship? Would they be allowed to remain married or would they be forced to divorce?

 

You're right Lyndalou - there have been some worrying developments which appear to be moving towards a situation where those on the spectrum are discouraged from choosing to enter into relationships on the grounds of them being 'unadvisable'. I'm raising this issue out of increasing confusion in this area. Information is key in any situation and this is one area where information is not very forthcoming and it is very vexing.

Edited by Mike_GX101

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I totally agree with you Positive_about. What is not so clear is what consequences the NT partner would face if the said marriage was (following the AS diagnosis) then deemed inappropriate in my example above. Would the NT partner be threatened with jail if they continued to remain in the relationship? Would they be allowed to remain married or would they be forced to divorce?

 

You're right Lyndalou - there have been some worrying developments which appear to be moving towards a situation where those on the spectrum are discouraged from choosing to enter into relationships on the grounds of them being 'unadvisable'. I'm raising this issue out of increasing confusion in this area. Information is key in any situation and this is one area where information is not very forthcoming and it is very vexing.

What I was trying to get over is that there are these schools of thought but I would hope that as more and more adults come forward and can share their stories that we can disprove much of the 'accepted' view of AS/NT marriage (in some quarters). I read an article written by experts involved in Autism Research in the US published not too long ago. They stated that by virtue of the difficulties experienced by the person with AS that they were completely incapable of entering into a relationship. One 'expert' stated they only knew of one ill-fated AS marriage. Then, the flip side of the coin we have experts expounding on the belief that AS people enter into marriage willy-nilly and cause untold emotional damage due to their complete inability to 'connect', 'empathise' or 'communicate'. Do you know what I say? Make your minds up! The fact that some people are just ignorant, selfish or abusive is a fact of life. Watch Jeremy Kyle any morning and a whole spectrum of dysfunctional, pathological and bizarre individuals who give no thought to the impact they are having on their offspring or partners will be paraded in front of you. Do they get their children forcibly removed or are they made to separate by higher authorities? In many cases, it would appear not even though they are causing psychological distress. As Positive_about said, if people were forced to separate or threatened with being jailed for entering into a relationship just because their partner or they had (diagnosed) AS, it would be discrimanatory and against their human rights...Right to Family Life etc. There are likely cases where uneducated professionals hear 'Aspergers Syndrome' and automatically make assumptions that any problems with a relationship or parenting difficulties and down to this and may make decisions based on their skewed understanding of what AS (not forgetting that everyone 'presents' differently and everyone gets to where they are carrying different life experiences) is. However, I reiterate that separating people forcibly would be against Human Rights.

 

Of course, these are just my thoughts. :)

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I totally agree with you Positive_about. What is not so clear is what consequences the NT partner would face if the said marriage was (following the AS diagnosis) then deemed inappropriate in my example above. Would the NT partner be threatened with jail if they continued to remain in the relationship? Would they be allowed to remain married or would they be forced to divorce?

 

Its not inappropriate, so there wouldn't be any consequences. I'm not a legal professional, but as Lyndalou says, in the UK the human rights act (and others) provides protection so it wouldn't matter what any health/legal professional said about an ASD-NT relationship, they have the right to stay together (or not) through free choice. Other countries may be different. If the NT partner was abusing the ASD partner then a law has been broken so that is a different situation, but even then I'm not sure a relationship could be ended by external parties.

 

What about an ASD-ASD relationship? Who is being 'inappropriate' there? There's prejudice, and then there are actual laws - its important not to confuse the two.

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If it was domestic abuse then yes fair enough - everyone has a right to be protected from it and good thing too. But we're not talking about that - we're talking about two people who want to be together and have formed a loving stable relationship which has worked for years until the day one partner gets a diagnosis of AS.

 

The AS partner is still the same person they always were only there is a label for why they are the way they are. But it's more than that. No one ever considers what the other partner must be going through upon the diagnosis and that they will need just as much support in the diagnosis process as the partner being diagnosed. They will need to be supported as a couple. Go anywhere and ask for help and there is an uncomfortable shuffling of feet just out of view - what is the problem?!?

 

So two people have found one another and they absolutely love one another and want to maybe raise a family. Oh and by the way one happens to have AS but look what they've achieved so far - they've overcome the barriers of their disability and they've actually done what apparently cannot be done. That in itself aught to be recognised and heralded as a success. There you have it - someone with AS who has overcome what the professionals said could never be done - SUCCESS!!!

 

So why are such successes not paraded and recognised? Why do we never hear about the worries and anxieties the partner without AS might have in the face of diagnosis? Why is more not done to demonstrate there is a way and that barriers can be overcome? There are people out there on the spectrum who have done some truly remarkable things - why do we rarely hear about them? Why are AS-affected couples not given more recognition and support? Why do we have to choose between marriage and diagnosis?

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Marriage works for me...and my wife. Although I am not officially diagnosed what I have makes no difference to her as to who I am. I am still the same person she married.

 

Don't let any professional tell you that marriage doesn't work if one person has AS (or whatever)

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Mike, I do think I've put my hubby through a lot, certainly since the kids came along and over the last couple of years in particular. However, 'for better, for worse' is at the core of marriage vows for a reason. Relationships have good times and they have bad and if you are in it for the long haul you shouldn't expect everything to be wonderful all the time. To be frank, I doubt many relationships are like that at all and if people say they are then they are likely not telling the truth. I think what most people aim for is 'balance' and a certain degree of synchronicity and I think a well-balanced relationship is a more achievable goal than even a half-way 'perfect' one.

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Well if you look at the following thread: Adult Aspergers and the law you might get a little worried. I accept the OP for that thread shows genuine concern for their 25 year old step son but I worry about what their view will be should he meets someone and falls in love with them and wants to get married.

 

You imagine a scenario where the wedding ceremony is taking place and is at the point where the vicar asks if anyone has any objections to the marriage at which point several people stand up and point an accusing finger at the non-AS partner at which point they shuffle the AS partner out to 'safety'.

 

I worry about this, I really do. Surely if someone wants to get married because they feel real genuine love for another then they should be allowed to do so. Surely in the above scenario the AS-partner should be well within their rights to reject the objections and go on to marry their partner?? At least you'd hope they'd have the courage to.

 

It could happen to anyone. You go out and meet someone and realise you have something special and a loving relationship develops. You plan to marry. Then out of the blue a diagnosis is made. It is AS. Maybe you're already married. What then? Do they really expect the partners to just say goodbye never to see one another again? Do they really think it is that easy to give up the one you love? So many questions and yet so few answers and a prevailing notion which appears to suggest those with AS do not have the capacity to choose to marry and develop relationships.

 

But such a prevailing notion is damaging in that it potentially underwrites our liberties and freedoms to choose our own directions in life. Whether we have AS or not we should be allowed, if we so wish, to choose what we want.

Edited by Mike_GX101

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