Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Noskcaj86

EP visiting Son at school thursday, urgent advice needed

Recommended Posts

Hi Everyone,

 

The EP is finally visiting my son this thursday after a 7 month wait since feferral back in October. I was under the impression i could go to the school on the day of her visit to talk to her either before hand or after the assessment?

School are saying i cant go???

Im worried as i need to go and tell her his past history... of which there s a lot and i feel she needs to be aware if his difficulties from my point of view as well as from his teachers. What should i do, we have waited so long for this appt and dont want to rearrange it now.

 

Thanx

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

Are you sure the EP is coming to the school to assess your son or are they going to 'discuss his case'?

 

I am sure that an EP undertaking an assessment would ask for parental input so if you don't hear anything I would:

 

Ask for a Statutory assessment of your sons special educational needs. You will need to send a letter to the Local Authority recorded delivery. I would speak to the Local Parent Partnership who can advise you. You need to put this request in NOT the school.

 

I have read some of your older posts. Do not let people fob you off (been there got the T shirt). The LA may say they are not going to assess and you will need to appeal. This is not unusual but the sooner you request the sooner the process can start.

Edited by cathcart3303

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

 

The letter i received today said he will be watched by the EP in the classroom as well as her discussing him with the teachers, so is this an assessment or just a discussion? I was originally told by the head teacher i could go and give his background info to the EP as it would be essential she knew, but then told today they wont have time for her to speak to me now...

 

Im wondering weather to cancel and re arrange for a time when i am able to be there, but unsure if this is a good idea after the long wait for the appt.

 

Thanx :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would phone the EP and ask them myself.

 

Schools have a budget [in terms of hours] for the EP. Often the EP goes in to discuss certain children wtih school. There maybe observations or assessments. Also the EP may go in and see the child and also see the parent either before or after.

 

I think it is reasonable and sensible for her to meet with you. So I would phone and ask to meet with her. Ask her what assessments she will be carrying out. Doesn't sound like she is going to do any standardised assessments - which you really need. So that could be part of your discussion on the phone, on the day, and also put everything discussed into a letter and sent it to them so that there is a record of yor discussions, meeting or requests.

 

I believe you are in the process of seeking a diagnosis? You can tell the EP that.

 

Don't expect that there will be a huge input from the EP service into a mainstream school. That simply does not exist. So, when you have a diagnosis I would advise that you ask the LA to carry out an assessment for a Statement. That will cause the LA to ask the EP to see your child again and assess them. But you need to put in a request [by writing a letter to the EP] asking for them to use standardised assessments, because they won't do them automatically. You need those assessments to know what his skill levels are now, so that you have a baseline from which to measure progress. You need to do the same with the speech therapist too.

Edited by Sally44

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok thanks Sally44,

 

Ill try and ring her tomorrow, although i dont have a number for her, ill have to ring round to find it :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds to me like the educational psychologist will be assessing in ckass room gain feedback from teachers aboyt is education progress but ring the ep asking if your input can be cintacted too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Schools have a very limited amount of EP time - so don't expect too much. I think it is likely to be a short observation in class (which is often not much use as it will depend on his mood at the time) plus discussion with teachers and SENCO. I would be surprised if there was any assessment or 1:1 time.

 

The objective will probably be to advise the staff on strategies. If he is not already on SAP, this meeting should mean that he is moved to that.

 

Don't expect too much from it - it is just one of many stages on the journey to getting him the help he needs. All of them are necessary if individually you don't see much progress from each one.

 

I certainly wouldn't recommend postponing it - you will just hold up the process. You might consider preparing a 2-3 side document giving your concerns to be handed to the EP on the day

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The ed psych saw my son twice,once I was not there it was just to see what the school could do, it was prior to his dx though going through the process. The second was during statementing this was a much longer visit, she spoke to me in the morning,she was not to interested in a full history,remember this is education not diagnosing(medical.) So she asked thing like what I want for my son, how I feel his education is going(if his needs are met from the education point of view) and how I think a statement will ultimatley help him.

She then observed him during 2 or 3 different lessons,to see transitions between each etc.

Finally she met with him 1:1 to do various games/puzzles etc.

 

So don't worry to much if she has not met with you yet,so long as its not statementing you are going through.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BUT remember that a Statement is not just about academic things. It is about "education" but in the broad sense as understood by SEND ie. preparing a child for independent adult life. So everything is relevant from sensory issues, to motor planning, to speech and language, to social communication, to emotional literacy etc. It all impacts on 'education'.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi all,

I ended up going and met with the EP, she had already assessed my son but was interested to hear background info and to know about his asd diagnosis referral as the school hadnt said anything about it!!!! She assessed him for an hour and a half and said it was a cognitive assessment. I have not had any results yet so thinking of chasing it up soon.

 

Thanx for all support

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, and she said she would be re referring him to SALT. 6-7 months after he was discharged... I did question his discharge at the time but im just a mum, not a SALT so how would i know anything?! Turns out i was right and he does still need speech therepy as his understanding is quite behind. I hope we see a different SALT this time though :/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My son saw a number of different SALTs in his first years in primary, and then I found out [from reading her report], that she had not "had time" to assess my son for his social interaction and communication skills [yes, no time in 2 years!].

 

So I asked her "As I understand it, my son MUST have those difficulties to have received a diagnosis, so I would like you to assess those skills." And after that meeting I phoned and spoke to the head of the SALT department, and following that conversation I sent in a letter asking that my son was seen by a suitably qualified SALT who had experience of working with children with autistic spectrum disorder and speech disorders [often the child can have both], and that his social communication and play skills were assessed. And that he was assessed using standardised assessments."

 

And, guess what, it happened.

 

Unfortunately everything costs money. So if they can get away with not identifying needs, and therefore not having to provide provision, that can often happen.

 

We even went through a stage where the SALT phoned the TA to ask her if he had met his targets. A TA is not suitably qualified to make that judgement. So I again put in writing that once the SALT had set the targets, that the SALT should go back into school to determine if he had met them. And guess what, he wasn't meeting them [whereas the TA said he was].

 

So always know what is supposed to be happening. Always raise your concerns. And always, always, put requests in writing, because that is your only evidence that you asked for them. And having asked, the SALT department either has to do it, or explain in writing why it isn't doing it. And that is very useful evidence if you ever end up at a tribunal. Because, as an example, at an educational Tribunal the Panel was most likely to agree with you that the child needs standardised assessments, needs monitoring by a suitably qualified SALT and needs all their needs and difficulties to be identified and provision specified and quantified to meet that need.

 

My SALT department also tried to discharge my son at one stage. So I asked them, in writing, to confirm that he was no longer was autistic, because the diagnosis itself means he MUST have speech and language and social communication problems that are lifelong. And guess what, they decided not to discharge him.

 

And, some years later, after further standardised assessments he was finally diagnosed with a "Severe/Profound speech and language disorder" - eventhough he can use big words and was advanced in some areas, in others he scored 1's and 2s where 3 is considered a severe difficulty.

 

And the level of speech and language difficulties will impact on learning. Makes sense really. If you struggle with language you are going to struggle with aspects of reading/writing/comprehension/inference/formulating sentences/narratives etc.

 

At our last Educational Tribunal I submitted evidence that the SALT had recommended reducing the amount of 1:1 therapy per term from 15 to 12. Yet, when asked by myself to detail how many hours she used to deliver the provision in the Statement, she said it was "significantly more hours than detailed in his Statement." That is contradictory isn't it. Recommending a reduction in actual hours whilst admitting that you need more than the actual hours to meet his needs.

 

So, part of my Tribunal appeal was that the Statement must be a true reflection of need and the provision required to meet those needs. And that the only reason I could see for this recommendation having been made was due to staffing shortages in the SALT department or reductions in the SALT budget and was totally unrelated to my sons needs and the therapy levels required to meet those needs. And the Tribunal Panel agreed with me.

 

So please don't just leave professionals to get on with it and trust that they will be doing the best. You do need to learn all about the SEN process and make sure that all your child's needs are identified and supported.

Edited by Sally44

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds pretty positive.

 

I think the problem with SALT is that most NHS SALT teams are not really set up to provide the sort of support a child with ASD needs. Although they have a communication disorder it is a long way from the sort of disorders the NHS SALTs routinely deal with. Unfortunately repeated referral to NHS won't really accomplish too much

 

A good statement will almost certainly make specific recommendations about the SALT support he needs that will require an independent SALT

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In future i wont leave it to the professionals, not after the SALT incident, It had made me realise even if i am not qualified i know my child better than anyone and if i am concerned it probably for a good reason. I had already questioned his discharge at the time. Hes is almost 5 now, his writing and reading are already delayed in comparison to his peers, he also cant draw/wright easily so he is needing help in school for motor skills. He cant write his name and struggles to draw anything recognisable. He is struggling to learn/remember single letters at the moment where as his peers are taking home reading books already. So the language issues are obvious, next time i wont just question it i will demand a 2nd opinion.

 

He had a cognitive assessment done in school by the EP, what exactly will that assess and how will it be helpful?

 

Thanx :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cognitive assessment is rather like an IQ test. It tries to assess his potential in a range of areas. It should help you understand his strengths and weaknesses.

 

It is also important to help interpret his achievement, if he performs less well than his cognitive ability suggests then that is an important indicator of unmet special needs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A cognitive assessment using a number of standardised assessments can determine if a child has a "specific learning difficulty" ie. around average IQ, but with a specific difficulty such as dyslexia, problems with short term or working memory, problems sequencing thought [which often accompany problems sequencing movement ie. dyspraxia]. Or if a child has learning "disabilities", which means lower than average IQ.

 

A child can have a spikey profile eg. my son is above average on some cognitive assessments and below on others, so the average score brings him in at borderline average - but if you take out the dyslexia, short term and working memory problems and the sequencing problems and difficulties with language, he is above average.

 

A child with a lower IQ across all areas means they have a learning "disability".

 

Another thing I wanted to mention about SALT targets, or any targets set by professionals or school - is that they should be monitored and there should be a time limit by which the targets should be met, such as termly targets etc. A child should not have targets that go on year after year. If a child is not making progress that is when professionals should become more involved, or therapy provided, or specialist teaching etc. Lack of progress is a major argument to be using at any Educational Tribunal. And the reason why Cognitive assessments are useful is so that everyone knows what the potential is for the child.

 

A child with general learning disabilities, and you should know whether that is mild, moderate or severe, will give you an idea of what progress the child should make. Someone with mild, or even moderate learning disabilities could be expected to get to KS3 and maybe attend mainstream secondary [that is not necessarily the case if they have an ASD as well]. But they should make progress.

 

Whereas a child with average or above average IQ, who also has dyslexia and dyspraxia may not learn to read or write to a great degree and maybe totally unsuitable for mainstream due to their learning difficulties, ASD, anxiety etc. And there are usually only independent schools for those types of pupils. LA's often have mainstream or special schools. The special schools are usually for MLD or SLD, and not necessarily ASD. And there is a total lack of secondary schools for average IQ ASD children who are not making progress in mainstream environments, but are not suitable for MLD or SLD schools.

 

So you need to know the results of a number of standardised assessments across the different professions to get a good idea of where your child is heading.

 

What frustrated me was that, knowing what I know now, professionals already knew that my son was not mainstream material when he was in year 1-2, but they kept him there until he totally refused school and did not attend any of year 5. Unfortunately it is often the case that only when the school placement has totally broken down does anything additional or different become available - and sometimes not even then without an Educational Tribunal. These professionals do not think about the turmoil, torment and anxiety this process of failure causes our children.

Edited by Sally44

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks both, I wish i knew what to do... I wish someone could just tell me what is best for him. I have no idea really what decision to make, weather he stays in the year group hes in and moves up to year 1, weather he stays back and re does this school year (reception) or weather he needs to move school... Its June now so I actually dont have a huge amount of time to decide what is best. He is happy in his year group, he has 2 close friends. But he is 18 months - 2 years behind his peers, so he preforms at the level of a 3yr old rather than a 5yr old. I know he would be upset to leave his friends, and if he stayed in the same school and stayed back a year he may be teased by his friends from his current class and even other classes as its a small enough school for kids from other year groups to notice. Hes such a confident happy kid I dont want his confidence to be knocked by teasing. Moving school is a big decision, and if I decide its best I have no idea which school would suit him and could make the wrong decision on which school to send him to. I feel like nobody is helping me make this decision, no one is giving me any directions. Hes in reception and already things are challenging, only another 11 years to go :( HELP!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is a hard decision to make. My son also fell further and further behind. But I didn't keep him back a year. He always kept with his year group, with the kids he knew and his friends. Then when the placement became unable to meet his needs he moved to another mainstream enhanced resource school. Again he stayed with the year groups. He had more support. But it still was not enough to meet his various complex needs. He became very anxious, refused school etc.

 

We had two educational tribunals. At the last one we won an independent school placement.

 

But you need time to see how things are going. You need time to get the assessments and diagnoses. You need time for the LA and school to do all that they can to meet his needs in his year group. You need them to get to the end of the line before you look for something different.

 

My feeling is that if you hold him back a year, you are delaying things by another year. If he cannot read or write, for example, he needs specialist teaching or therapy, not holding back a year to be with other kids that aren't reading or writing yet. My son is in year 8 and is just beginning to read and write some things independently. But now he has alot of specialist input, a dyslexia teacher, a laptop, software to help him read and write, OT therapy etc. And he gets that because of the fact that he is around average cognitive ability - and therefore needs that level of teaching - but he needs it delivered in a way that he can access and demonstrate his learning. And to get to that level we needed mainstream to fail, and assessments to prove that he had the potential to achieve.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I also don't think holding him back a year is likely to be the right answer at this stage. If he is not in the right environment he will further and further behind, even if he drops back a year. It is also unlikely that just moving schools will help,( unless you can move to one of the mainstream schools that have a lot of SEN children and so can provide a lot of the specialist support he needs). Also at this stage you probably don't know enough about what sort of school will suit him better so unless things go badly wrong you are probably better keeping him where he is while you see how things develop and go through the process of getting assessments.

 

This is where the cognitive assessment is important - if he turns out to have average cognitive abilities but is under performing then that is a strong indicator that he has educational needs that are not being met.

 

From what you say it sounds as if he is going to need a statement with specialist provision, so the sooner you get started with that the better. Before you get to that stage the school will normally have to go through SA. SAP so you should make sure they are progressing down that route now. He should have IEPs that you review regularly

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In regards to SA and SAP I have a letter from school and his SEN stage is SA+... is this the same thing??

 

Also the moving school bit is more complicated as hes not in an english speaking school but a welsh speaking school, so with his language issues and reading and writing problems hes having to learn a new language/alphabet... this is why im considering a new school for next year, it would be moving him to an english school with more SEN support. We had planned to send him to the welsh speaking school foe 1 year and then to reassess if how he was doing, and we now know he is not doing well. His brother is at the same school and doing really well. It is a shame to have to send Jack to a different school than his brother, but I think the welsh is making things even harder for him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes sap is school action plus, as is SA+

 

To be honest it rarely does any good but it is a stepping stone to a statement , and it is hard to get a statement without having been on SAP for some time.

 

I think the welsh speaking school is a big problem. ASD children can struggle with literacy in one language and I would have thought adding a second language to the curriculum just puts them under more strain, and reduces the time for other subjects. I would think that unless you are committed to Welsh you would be better in and English-speaking school. ( I hope I don't get my house burnt down for saying that)

 

Although it is difficult in some ways it may be better for the two boys to be in different schools. We are acutely aware of the influence of our older son (AS) has on the younger (NT) at the same school, although it is probably less of an issue where the younger is ASD.

 

It must at least be worth looking round at local schools to see if there are any with a high proportion of AS children and see what they advise. We have a good one in our area we would have looked at had we known he was AS at the time

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it may be too, but getting his teachers to agree on that... not a chance! Im going to look around the other schools, i know 1 is meant to be good with kids who have additional needs so will contact them 1st. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...